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What Will It Take For The US To Be Competitive In World Cup? (2 Viewers)

kinda feels like most are over thinking it....soccer itself just isn't very American....its not cool....its' boring...we have too many other things that are more popular and get more attention....so young athletes are drawn in that direction....when you watch sports highlights, you see the see the four major sports...soccer gets very little run...its just natural to move in other directions...soccer is boring to most casual sports fans...when you do see "soccer highlights" it's usually just the goals...you don't usually see highlights of a great "defensive soccer play"...the other sports give you more dunks, behind the back passes, alley oops, home runs, diving catches in the outfield, sweet double plays, 100 MPH fastballs, amazing TD catches, running over a linebacker and breaking tackles, pinpoint passes, slap shots, kick saves and a beauty, glove saves, cross checks and dropping the gloves....soccer is boring to watch, especially at lower levels like high school, college, etc....people don't go to those games...there is a reason...it doesn't capture our senses in America like it does in other countries...the hottest girl in school dates the QB, not the best soccer player....this is Merica baby... somebody in here mentioned who our best younger soccer players are....but nobody knows them other than soccer people...I never heard of them and I consider myself a "sports guy" by most standards....but we knew who Bryce Harper and Lebron James were before they became Bryce Harper and LeBron James...there isn't going to be any "great development" here in terms of REALLY moving the needle in this country because nobody really cares about the sport here and those that do, really only show up every four years or when Brandi Chastain takes her shirt off...the other sports are too ingrained into our fabric and our makeup that we really won't let go of them and move on to soccer....kids play wiffle ball and 3 on 3...they don't usually go play a "pick up" game of soccer...soccer guy wants to shrug off the points Otis makes, etc....but soccer just isn't very cool here, and its not where the money is at...the sport is just boring...I know soccer guy doesn't want to admit that...but it is....even if LeBron and Jimmy Graham and OBJ played it...it will still be boring to watch....yes soccer guy like its and enjoys it at its core and the little beauties within the sport, but Merica doesn't get...we still think of it as the sport you play because you suck at everything else that really matters.....

 
timschochet said:
I haven’t read through the thread so maybe (probably) somebody’s brought this up, but USA woman’s soccer is typically always one of the favorites to win it all and when they don’t its an upset. So what are they doing that the boys are not? 
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The US women started playing before women in other countries and the pool of countries that play women's soccer seriously is tiny.

The men face the exact opposite circumstances.  We started taking the sport seriously much later than everyone else and the pool of countries that take men's soccer seriously is massive.

 
TakiToki said:
I don't think most are claiming that the NFL Pro Bowl is directly analogous to soccer greatness. It's more that a kid that may have been an elite soccer player in another culture is more likely to end up a 3rd team cornerback at Alabama in the US.
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Sure, but I think the point that most are missing is that soccer is 90% skill, and 10% athleticism.

Messi and Ronaldo and Pele would be horrible DBs at Alabama...wouldn't even make the team.

Americans insist on comparing apples to oranges.  

Soccer is mostly a game of SKILL not athleticism.

 
Stinkin Ref said:
kinda feels like most are over thinking it....soccer itself just isn't very American....its not cool....its' boring...we have too many other things that are more popular and get more attention....so young athletes are drawn in that direction....when you watch sports highlights, you see the see the four major sports...soccer gets very little run...its just natural to move in other directions...soccer is boring to most casual sports fans...when you do see "soccer highlights" it's usually just the goals...you don't usually see highlights of a great "defensive soccer play"...the other sports give you more dunks, behind the back passes, alley oops, home runs, diving catches in the outfield, sweet double plays, 100 MPH fastballs, amazing TD catches, running over a linebacker and breaking tackles, pinpoint passes, slap shots, kick saves and a beauty, glove saves, cross checks and dropping the gloves....soccer is boring to watch, especially at lower levels like high school, college, etc....people don't go to those games...there is a reason...it doesn't capture our senses in America like it does in other countries...the hottest girl in school dates the QB, not the best soccer player....this is Merica baby... somebody in here mentioned who our best younger soccer players are....but nobody knows them other than soccer people...I never heard of them and I consider myself a "sports guy" by most standards....but we knew who Bryce Harper and Lebron James were before they became Bryce Harper and LeBron James...there isn't going to be any "great development" here in terms of REALLY moving the needle in this country because nobody really cares about the sport here and those that do, really only show up every four years or when Brandi Chastain takes her shirt off...the other sports are too ingrained into our fabric and our makeup that we really won't let go of them and move on to soccer....kids play wiffle ball and 3 on 3...they don't usually go play a "pick up" game of soccer...soccer guy wants to shrug off the points Otis makes, etc....but soccer just isn't very cool here, and its not where the money is at...the sport is just boring...I know soccer guy doesn't want to admit that...but it is....even if LeBron and Jimmy Graham and OBJ played it...it will still be boring to watch....yes soccer guy like its and enjoys it at its core and the little beauties within the sport, but Merica doesn't get...we still think of it as the sport you play because you suck at everything else that really matters.....
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Cliffs:

Soccer sucks. Most Americans don't like it.

/thread

 
Stinkin Ref said:
kinda feels like most are over thinking it....soccer itself just isn't very American....its not cool....its' boring...
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I live in California, you know, the biggest richest state in the Union.

Soccer is wildly popular here.  The rest of the USA is slowly following suit.

 
TripItUp said:
IMHO, this is more about what the other countries are doing wrong vs. what we are doing right.

America culture is much more open to female athletics than most of the rest of the world.
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Yeah, we started on something closer to an even level in women's soccer, didn't spot the rest of the world a 50-year developmental lead. So our numbers carry a lot more weight than they do on the men's side, where Belgium can train their one percenters to a level of skill that our guys won't reach for a couple of decades yet.

 
TripItUp said:
Sure, but I think the point that most are missing is that soccer is 90% skill, and 10% athleticism.

Messi and Ronaldo and Pele would be horrible DBs at Alabama...wouldn't even make the team.

Americans insist on comparing apples to oranges.  

Soccer is mostly a game of SKILL not athleticism.
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:no:

Cristiano Ronaldo is an elite athletic specimen. 

 
I see.....that one of our......frequent uninformed critics.......has decided......to weigh in......with a blistering.....hot take......

 
Joe Bryant said:
2. We get good athletes. I understand the idea that our best athletes go to Football / Basketball / Baseball. But I see differently. I have two good friends locally who's sons were the best athletes in our High School. (Pretty large public high school with 2,000 students). They both played soccer for the High School team. And played all through middle and high school on club teams. Basketball and Baseball have AAU teams for kids. Football has QB camps and such. It's not like our Football / Basketball / Baseball kids are whisked away as 10 year olds to live and train in a special facility. And we excel in those sports worldwide. 
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don't mean to just pick this out...but it stood out to me....I bet there are a few in your community who might disagree with this as a broad statement....seems kind of subjective....did they play other sports too?... 

 
roadkill1292 said:
Yeah, we started on something closer to an even level in women's soccer, didn't spot the rest of the world a 50-year developmental lead. .
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it is more than just starting level IMO.  We started way ahead of almost every country.  Girls have been playing soccer in massive numbers here since the 80's.  That was unheard of almost anywhere on the planet. 

We also started the first real pro leagues for women well ahead of 99% of the world.

 
TripItUp said:
definitely part of the problem, but Neymar was discovered on a beach.
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Exactly, which is why we need to be searching for and developing kids who are not playing in a structured environment.  An anecdote: 

My son played on an ODP team for a few years and got to be a solid player.  When he was 12, he was the best player in our community, which is mostly white, middle/upper class.  In addition to club soccer, he played for his middle school team, and I went with them to a rural area to play another middle school team.  There were three hispanic boys on that team that were far and away the best players on the field that day.  Their touch, spatial awareness, and creativity was way better than my ODP son, but they played with 8 toe kickers for a "coach" who taught 6 grade science.  My son's team clobbered them, because we had better depth and were better organized, but that day taught me that my kid wasn't all that. 

Those kids were special, but they couldn't afford to play club soccer with its fees, uniforms, and league/tournament schedule, let alone ODP which was an even greater financial/time commitment.  They are excluded from the US soccer structure, which is primarily designed to get rich, suburban kids into college.  So instead, they play in the parks, hope to win a state championship in high school, and then go to work.  The MLS academy system provides some alternatives, but on the whole, US Soccer is wasting a HUGE untapped resource. 

 
I get it...soccer guy wants to blame our lack of success/development on a lot of other things....and can't possibly consider that part of the reason lies in the sport itself...its what soccer guy does and why they have to defend it all the time...

 
Stinkin Ref said:
I get it...soccer guy wants to blame our lack of success/development on a lot of other things....and can't possibly consider that part of the reason lies in the sport itself...its what soccer guy does and why they have to defend it all the time...
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soccer will be more popular than American football within 30 years and is already more popular in youth sports.

So there's that.

 
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rockaction said:
In other words, different skill sets allow us to specialize in different sports and that it's not a zero-sum game? I find that tenable.  
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That's certainly true, but the main point many are making is that even the best athletes don't have the training and opportunity to excel here due to other flaws in our youth programs and numerous other systemic difficulties.  Therefore, it has nothing to do with getting better athletes or getting the best athletes to play soccer.  We have that already, more than enough. As a few have noted, if we look at the two best soccer players in the world right now - Leo Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo - most likely Messi never makes it past U12 or so if he's American because he's small, not particularly fast or powerful. Ronaldo probably makes it because he's tall and athletic.

 
Stinkin Ref said:
after they make what changes to the game....
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I think you misread the thread title.  Here it is for you:

What Will It Take For The US To Be Competitive In World Cup?

As someone who admittedly hasn't watched a game in decades, this probably isn't the thread for you even though I know you think it is.  The "why isn't soccer big in the US" thread is <-------that way.

 
From my little involvement in the youth soccer that I did my only anecdotal story is this.  My kids league had a roving coach that worked from team to team at random practices.  He was a product of one of the South American soccer factories from Brazil or Argentina or somewhere.  Cannot remember which.  This dude was amazing.  The things he could do with the ball and the way he could kick it were breath taking.  But the best he could do was get a job as coach.  He couldnt make a professional league.   He told me he went into the Academy (or whatever its called) at 4 or so and they worked like 8 hours a day on certain skills.   Where we would work on scissor kick or some move for like 30 minutes they would work on it for hours.  Literally hours on the same skill over and over again.  We just dont have that dedication to the sport that I have seen.  He also used to laugh when coaches would either call practice early or cancel it all together if it was raining or even in the forecast.  They played in every type of weather.

Thats my limited take on this entire subject

 
GROOT said:
Soccer is bigger with the younger generation than ever before.
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the sports growth really has no end in site.  The TV ratings are improving, attendance is improving, the money being spent on the game is increasing to ever amazing levels, sponsors are investing like never before.

It is a bit of a strange thing to say in our darkest hour that the sport has never looked brighter, but it is true.  When in doubt follow the money, and it is flowing into the sport.

And with WC 2026 coming here, we are almost assured the money will continue to flow.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
That's certainly true, but the main point many are making is that even the best athletes don't have the training and opportunity to excel here due to other flaws in our youth programs and numerous other systemic difficulties.  Therefore, it has nothing to do with getting better athletes or getting the best athletes to play soccer.  We have that already, more than enough. As a few have noted, if we look at the two best soccer players in the world right now - Leo Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo - most likely Messi never makes it past U12 or so if he's American because he's small, not particularly fast or powerful. Ronaldo probably makes it because he's tall and athletic.
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Yeah, I was reading about the systemic problems in this thread. Two or three pages ago, I talked about the four main issues people are talking about in this thread. This was one of them. Thanks, though, for your time.  

 
NewlyRetired said:
the sports growth really has no end in site.  The TV ratings are improving, attendance is improving, the money being spent on the game is increasing to ever amazing levels, sponsors are investing like never before.

It is a bit of a strange thing to say in our darkest hour that the sport has never looked brighter, but it is true.  When in doubt follow the money, and it is flowing into the sport.

And with WC 2026 coming here, we are almost assured the money will continue to flow.
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Thats all great but we dont have the training infrastructure set up to catch the world in skill level.  I doubt we ever will as parents will be super reluctant to ship their kids to these soccer factories

 
gianmarco said:
I think you misread the thread title.  Here it is for you:

What Will It Take For The US To Be Competitive In World Cup?

As someone who admittedly hasn't watched a game in decades, this probably isn't the thread for you even though I know you think it is.  The "why isn't soccer big in the US" thread is <-------that way.
Click to expand...
IMO the sport needs to become more popular and be more embraced by our country before the USA Men's team becomes more competitive on a national/world cup level....there has to be more incentive for our athletes to dedicate themselves to the sport...if it is something people REALLY want then the development will follow....supply/demand....there just isn't enough demand in the USA... 

 
Stinkin Ref said:
IMO the sport needs to become more popular and be more embraced by our country before the USA Men's team becomes more competitive on a national/world cup level....there has to be more incentive for our athletes to dedicate themselves to the sport...if it is something people REALLY want then the development will follow....supply/demand....there just isn't enough demand in the USA... 
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It's becoming more popular.

There is a reason why they are building new soccer stadiums in new cities.

Conversely, the NFL is squirmish about their dwindling revenues, viewership and vast decline in youth participation in American football.

Where do you live, Alabama?

 
TripItUp said:
I live in California, you know, the biggest richest state in the Union.

Soccer is wildly popular here.  The rest of the USA is slowly following suit.
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Maybe you're too focused on California and not the rest of the country...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/recruiting-insider/wp/2017/09/06/youth-sports-study-declining-participation-rising-costs-and-unqualified-coaches/

"That has caused major losses for the “big four” American youth sports: baseball, basketball, soccer and football (both tackle and flag). Those four sports have suffered the most severe losses of any of the 15 team sports SFIA and Aspen surveyed.

The only sports that saw growth over the past eight years were golf, gymnastics, ice hockey and track and field."

 
pantherclub said:
Thats all great but we dont have the training infrastructure set up to catch the world in skill level.  I doubt we ever will as parents will be super reluctant to ship their kids to these soccer factories
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On a large scale no, but on a smaller scale this is already happening.

The MLS teams in Salt Lake and in Philly have spent a TON of money building dedicated soccer only high schools for their academy players.  This was unheard of even a decade ago.  These kids eat and drink the sport.

Every MLS team has well funded academies now.   It is certainly not enough to catch the worlds elite but we have to start some where.

Look at what RSL just built for an example: https://www.rsl.com/academy

 
TripItUp said:
It's becoming more popular.

There is a reason why they are building new soccer stadiums in new cities.

Conversely, the NFL is squirmish about their dwindling revenues, viewership and vast decline in youth participation in American football.

Where do you live, Alabama?
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WC aside....not sure the words "tough ticket" and "soccer" will ever be used in the same sentence in this country.... 

 
NewlyRetired said:
On a large scale no, but on a smaller scale this is already happening.

The MLS teams in Salt Lake and in Philly have spent a TON of money building dedicated soccer only high schools for their academy players.  This was unheard of even a decade ago.  These kids eat and drink the sport.

Every MLS team has well funded academies now.   It is certainly not enough to catch the worlds elite but we have to start some where.

Look at what RSL just built for an example: https://www.rsl.com/academy
Click to expand...
Thats great but they need to get them younger.  5 or so is how the rest do it.  Parents simply will not let that happen here.  Its not in our blood.  There is nothing that will ever convince me that we could set up a system remotely similar to what we have now and make up any ground on the world powers of soccer.  Simply put it aint happening no matter how many teams the major league gets or how popular the sport becomes.  It will take generations before that culture would be in place.   Messi was on a club team at 5 if wiki is to be believed.  Thats nuts.

 
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pantherclub said:
Thats great but they need to get them younger.  5 or so is how the rest do it.  Parents simply will not let that happen here.  Its not in our blood.  There is nothing that will ever convince me that we could set up a system remotely similar to what we have now and make up any ground on the world powers of soccer.  Simply put it aint happening no matter how many teams the major league gets or how popular the sport becomes.  It will take generations before that culture would be in place. 
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They don't have to get them younger, Neymar didn't join a  youth system until age 11.

Neymar is good at soccer.

 
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TripItUp said:
They don't have to get them younger, Neymar didn't join a  youth system until age 11.

Neymar is good at soccer.
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Yeah his dad played soccer so I am sure that played together since he could crawl.  Hence why I was saying it will take generations to catch up if ever.  Our mentality and soccer culture are not even in the same stratosphere.  Whens the last time you rode by a park and saw a pick up soccer game?  Now how about basketball?  See my point

 
NewlyRetired said:
I follow the money side intimately so I won't bore the masses with the data but major MLS growth is hampered by TV revenue. 

The league does really well at the gate and fantastic with sponsors but still does not do well on TV.

Throw in the variable of the changing tv landscape, and there are many of us who are eagerly/nervously awaiting the next TV contract. 

The current TV contract tripled in value from the previous one (which is where a lot of huge % growth numbers come from), but I struggle to see that happen again.  But I would be really pleased if it did come close, as the next tv contract will dramatically tie into how much growth the league can have in the next decade.  
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I am curious how this relates to other summer sports.  Perhaps it's a function of living in the northern part of the country, but summertime is generally the worst time of year for me to watch television, let alone sports.  Major MLS games are often on Saturday and Sunday afternoons....I'm usually outside, enjoying the fleeting summer weather.  I'm a lot more inclined to watch a random NFL game in December than I am a random MLS game in July....not because I'm necessarily more interested in the NFL over the MLS, but because I'm a lot more likely to have something else to do during July than I do in December.

Are MLS TV ratings up?  Down?  How is it trending in comparison with, say, baseball?  I don't know if you have these answers, but if anyone does it's probably you.

 
TripItUp said:
They don't have to get them younger, Neymar didn't join a  youth system until age 11.

Neymar is good at soccer.
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I think people are confusing joining formal academies with just playing the game.  Formal training does not start until around ten or later in most countries but kids themselves are obviously playing on their own well before this.

 
pantherclub said:
Yeah his dad played soccer so I am sure that played together since he could crawl.  Hence why I was saying it will take generations to catch up if ever.  Our mentality and soccer culture are not even in the same stratosphere.  Whens the last time you rode by a park and saw a pick up soccer game?  Now how about basketball?  See my point
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pickup soccer is all over the place in SoCal...you live in the wrong part of the country to see its popularity.

 
pantherclub said:
Yeah his dad played soccer so I am sure that played together since he could crawl.  Hence why I was saying it will take generations to catch up if ever.  Our mentality and soccer culture are not even in the same stratosphere.  Whens the last time you rode by a park and saw a pick up soccer game?  Now how about basketball?  See my point
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I see waaaaay more pick up soccer games than basketball games here in NyC. Was that your point?

 
NewlyRetired said:
I think people are confusing joining formal academies with just playing the game.  Formal training does not start until around ten or later in most countries but kids themselves are obviously playing on their own well before this.
Click to expand...
Yeah, Neymar played Futsal as a kid..didn't see a full sized field until 11-12.

He was definitely playing ball though 

 
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