What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

What Will It Take For The US To Be Competitive In World Cup? (1 Viewer)

El Floppo said:
"I see waaaaay more pickup soccer than basketball".

Basketball hoops (half court) across the street from my pad have people on them sometimes. Same goes for the other courts in the neighborhood. Just as likely to see other activiites on them. Every spot of green, especially fields with goals, are going non-stop. My local tiny park that's more of an park than a sports spot always has a game going in some crazy spot.

Dunno what to say. Dunno it's "more popular" but it's more pervasive...below 110th st. maybe uptown it's still most basketball?
Click to expand...
Except for El Floppo Segundo...kid can lay a beat down, now...

 
TripItUp said:
They don't have to get them younger, Neymar didn't join a  youth system until age 11.

Neymar is good at soccer.
Click to expand...
Pretty sure he played before he joined a youth system, because, it's what people from the favelas do, it's what everyone does in Brazil, particularly those of limited means.

 
msommer said:
Pretty sure he played before he joined a youth system, because, it's what people from the favelas do, it's what everyone does in Brazil, particularly those of limited means.
Click to expand...
of course he played before he joined a youth system, but it was not as structured as an academy...somebody mentioned players should be in academies at age 5, which is obviously not the world norm.

 
I hope Scoob is in court today and doesn't see the Gladwell batsignal. 

But yes, it was noted prominently by Gladwell and it's not only an issue of fundamental fairness but one of efficacy, too. How many talented kids does everyone (this isn't just an American problem) lose because age group systems don't give them a fair shake in the developmental stage?

 
Short Corner said:
You guys are fooling yourselves.  The USA is losing ground.
Click to expand...
I agree with this. To give a specific example, look at the 2002 WC roster with players like McBride, O'Brien, and Donovan. You get enough guys like that on the same team for any country, and they can be good enough to make it to a WC semifinal assuming the referee calls an obvious handball in front of the goal. And in a wide open WC like we have in 2018, that team may have been good enough to make a final. 

But here we are 16 years later and the USMNT has no special players on deck other than Pulisic. I would trade the rest of the entire 2018 roster for just one of the starters on the 2002 team. 

Also for those in the thread defending MLS like it's your mama, yes it's experienced growth and yes it's better than it was 20 years ago. But it's still the T.J. Maxx of soccer leagues. You really only browse there for brand name players that went out of style in Europe last season. Congrats on finding that Rooney handbag for 80% off. DC United would still lose 3-0 to Neymar's cousin's beach soccer squad. 

 
TwinTurbo said:
I agree with this. To give a specific example, look at the 2002 WC roster with players like McBride, O'Brien, and Donovan. You get enough guys like that on the same team for any country, and they can be good enough to make it to a WC semifinal assuming the referee calls an obvious handball in front of the goal. And in a wide open WC like we have in 2018, that team may have been good enough to make a final. 

But here we are 16 years later and the USMNT has no special players on deck other than Pulisic. I would trade the rest of the entire 2018 roster for just one of the starters on the 2002 team. 

Also for those in the thread defending MLS like it's your mama, yes it's experienced growth and yes it's better than it was 20 years ago. But it's still the T.J. Maxx of soccer leagues. You really only browse there for brand name players that went out of style in Europe last season. Congrats on finding that Rooney handbag for 80% off. DC United would still lose 3-0 to Neymar's cousin's beach soccer squad. 
Click to expand...
The discussion on the first four or five pages of this thread was great, I took a few pages off and now I see this. I think we're done here. 

 
roadkill1292 said:
I hope Scoob is in court today and doesn't see the Gladwell batsignal. 

But yes, it was noted prominently by Gladwell and it's not only an issue of fundamental fairness but one of efficacy, too. How many talented kids does everyone (this isn't just an American problem) lose because age group systems don't give them a fair shake in the developmental stage?
Click to expand...
If the kids are any good they will be playing ahead of their age group anyway.  They are usually killing it on their local team and double licensing with a power club.

 
Nugget said:
Don’t have time for a deep dive, but I think Title IX is a major cause for both the strength of the women and the lack of success for the men. 
Click to expand...
level of competition around the world is the biggest difference. USA got in early on women's soccer and very late on men's soccer.

 
roadkill1292 said:
I hope Scoob is in court today and doesn't see the Gladwell batsignal. 

But yes, it was noted prominently by Gladwell and it's not only an issue of fundamental fairness but one of efficacy, too. How many talented kids does everyone (this isn't just an American problem) lose because age group systems don't give them a fair shake in the developmental stage?
Click to expand...
Worse. I was on toddler duty today. As I remember it, that piece was one of the less terrible works in the Gladwell canon. 

 
Moe. said:
The discussion on the first four or five pages of this thread was great, I took a few pages off and now I see this. I think we're done here. 
Click to expand...
Glad to put an end to it. Enjoy watching the WC semi finals this week featuring players that may join MLS ten years from now. 

 
shader said:
The soccer fans here follow soccer year round. It’s on the entire 8 months while your fat nfl idols are on vacation eating 
Click to expand...
Lol at fat idols.  NFL athletes are some of the most absurdly gifted, powerful, quick, fast, strong athletes on the planet.  If Saquon Barkley, Reggie Bush, and Bo Jackson grow up in Guatemala or wherever the hell they play soccer, those nerds in England would be so hosed. 

 
Stinkin Ref said:
soccer guy wants to shrug off the points Otis makes, etc....but soccer just isn't very cool here, and its not where the money is at...the sport is just boring...I know soccer guy doesn't want to admit that...but it is....even if LeBron and Jimmy Graham and OBJ played it...it will still be boring to watch....yes soccer guy like its and enjoys it at its core and the little beauties within the sport, but Merica doesn't get...we still think of it as the sport you play because you suck at everything else that really matters.....
Click to expand...
It is a horribly boring sport.  It’s an enormous gigantic field and most of the time is just watching these little skinny guys with good endurance kick the ball allllllll the way down to one end and alllllllll the way back.  Then there’s like a 3 second flurry of activity, and if you’re lucky you have a real barn burner and the score goes up to 3-2.  Then it’s 3-3 in the end, and you decide the game on penalty kicks, which is ridiculous.  Did someone tell me seriously that if the penalty kicks tie you just everntually flip a coin to see who wins?  Honestly may be the most exciting part of the match.

 
It’s also a little weird that the soccer guys get so mad at the notion that they’re mostly getting the lesser US athletes in their sport.

Sorry guy.

:ptts:  

 
Otis said:
It is a horribly boring sport.  It’s an enormous gigantic field and most of the time is just watching these little skinny guys with good endurance kick the ball allllllll the way down to one end and alllllllll the way back.  Then there’s like a 3 second flurry of activity, and if you’re lucky you have a real barn burner and the score goes up to 3-2.  Then it’s 3-3 in the end, and you decide the game on penalty kicks, which is ridiculous.  Did someone tell me seriously that if the penalty kicks tie you just everntually flip a coin to see who wins?  Honestly may be the most exciting part of the match.
Click to expand...
Go to the other thread, troll.

 
Ok fine. Sorry. You’re right. You guys are allowed to like soccer. And I shouldn’t bother you about it. I know it’s a sensitive subject. 

But seriosuly, I’m right about the question posted here. If Michael Jordan and Bo jackson and all the other great US athletes decided to play soccer instead, I’m betting the US would be dominant. We just have better options here. Nothing wrong with that. 

 
Otis said:
Ok fine. Sorry. You’re right. You guys are allowed to like soccer. And I shouldn’t bother you about it. I know it’s a sensitive subject. 

But seriosuly, I’m right about the question posted here. If Michael Jordan and Bo jackson and all the other great US athletes decided to play soccer instead, I’m betting the US would be dominant. We just have better options here. Nothing wrong with that. 
Click to expand...
I don’t think it would make much of a difference.  Best athletes don’t make the best players.  How many of the top 5 QBs of all time are considered elite athletes?   

 
There are certain great American athletes that I think could have been excellent players had they grown up with the sport, but its just impossible to tell.  The skills are so specific and require so much cultivation that its just completely ignorant to just assume a bunch of 210 lb guys running 4.3 would just automatically be elite. (and of course, completely ignores the mental/tactical aspect of the game)

 
timschochet said:
I haven’t read through the thread so maybe (probably) somebody’s brought this up, but USA woman’s soccer is typically always one of the favorites to win it all and when they don’t its an upset. So what are they doing that the boys are not? 
Click to expand...
Title IX created the USWNT success. Women's soccer in the US is still ahead of the rest of the world.

 
Otis said:
Ok fine. Sorry. You’re right. You guys are allowed to like soccer. And I shouldn’t bother you about it. I know it’s a sensitive subject. 

But seriosuly, I’m right about the question posted here. If Michael Jordan and Bo jackson and all the other great US athletes decided to play soccer instead, I’m betting the US would be dominant. We just have better options here. Nothing wrong with that. 
Click to expand...
Soccer is a game of skill, not a track meet.

 
Otis said:
Lol at fat idols.  NFL athletes are some of the most absurdly gifted, powerful, quick, fast, strong athletes on the planet.  If Saquon Barkley, Reggie Bush, and Bo Jackson grow up in Guatemala or wherever the hell they play soccer, those nerds in England would be so hosed. 
Click to expand...
Damn, skippy!

 
Otis said:
Ok fine. Sorry. You’re right. You guys are allowed to like soccer. And I shouldn’t bother you about it. I know it’s a sensitive subject. 

But seriosuly, I’m right about the question posted here. If Michael Jordan and Bo jackson and all the other great US athletes decided to play soccer instead, I’m betting the US would be dominant. We just have better options here. Nothing wrong with that. 
Click to expand...
:lmao:

 
On the argument that young American yutes don't get the high level of training at an early age as other countries, how does that difference from baseball. I'd venture that most American baseball players don't get much more than a babysitter as a coach until they are well into their teens. Until age 13-14, the coach is usually just the parent of tye best player on the team and/or has the most time to spare. Rarely having played past HS, if that.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Christo said:
One of the best "athletes" to play for the USMNT can't dribble or shoot worth a damn and couldn't make it at Sunderland.
Click to expand...
I get what you’re saying here and I agree to an extent.  Obviously being an athlete does not guarantee success.  The technical positions don’t require elite athleticism.  Midfielders need to pass and see the field and have stamina rather than be phenoms.

But, for some positions, such as CB and wingers, the US has jaw dropping athletes that most countries don’t have.  Get all those guys playing soccer (which admittedly isn’t realistic) and you might find a faster Zardes that can also fire it in the back of the net and can control the ball.

 
Otis said:
It is a horribly boring sport.  It’s an enormous gigantic field and most of the time is just watching these little skinny guys with good endurance kick the ball allllllll the way down to one end and alllllllll the way back.  Then there’s like a 3 second flurry of activity, and if you’re lucky you have a real barn burner and the score goes up to 3-2.  Then it’s 3-3 in the end, and you decide the game on penalty kicks, which is ridiculous.  Did someone tell me seriously that if the penalty kicks tie you just everntually flip a coin to see who wins?  Honestly may be the most exciting part of the match.
Click to expand...
If you gave it a chance, you wouldn’t be able to watch the nfl, which is a truly boring sport.

Now is the nfl boring if you are watching the redZone channel?  No.  But that’s not the nfl.  That’s cheating.  To truly sit and watch a full nfl game, does anyone do that anymore?  It takes lots of alcohol or a lot of multitasking on the cellphone to make that 3.5 hour experience “fun”.  Yes there are some exciting parts in some games but the average nfl game is 4-2.  Or 28-17 if you cheat and arbitrarily make your goals worth 7 points.  

So over the course of 3.5 hours you watch one game and see 5-6 “goals/touchdowns”

The premier league averaged 2.7 goals per game.  The game takes one hour and 45 minutes.  So in 3.5 hours I can watch two soccer games and see 5.4 goals, exactly the number of touchdowns I’ll see in an nfl game.

PLUS every goal in soccer is exciting.  I’d say half of the tds in the nfl are anti-climactic.  Nothing says excitement like a 2 yard off-tackle TD!

PLUS, in soccer I can see two games and zero commercials in 3.5 hours...

 
Otis said:
Ok fine. Sorry. You’re right. You guys are allowed to like soccer. And I shouldn’t bother you about it. I know it’s a sensitive subject. 

But seriosuly, I’m right about the question posted here. If Michael Jordan and Bo jackson and all the other great US athletes decided to play soccer instead, I’m betting the US would be dominant. We just have better options here. Nothing wrong with that. 
Click to expand...
Michael Jordan was 6’7, very tough to play at that height.  Bo Jackson would need to cut about 40 lbs.  Allen Iverson is probably the best crossover athlete I could think of as far as quickness and build to run around for 90 minutes.  

 
dschuler said:
Michael Jordan was 6’7, very tough to play at that height.  Bo Jackson would need to cut about 40 lbs.  Allen Iverson is probably the best crossover athlete I could think of as far as quickness and build to run around for 90 minutes.  
Click to expand...
Sure, but he doesn't like to practice. And unless he's the next Maradona that ain't gonna cut it.

 
Otis said:
Ok fine. Sorry. You’re right. You guys are allowed to like soccer. And I shouldn’t bother you about it. I know it’s a sensitive subject. 

But seriosuly, I’m right about the question posted here. If Michael Jordan and Bo jackson and all the other great US athletes decided to play soccer instead, I’m betting the US would be dominant. We just have better options here. Nothing wrong with that. 
Click to expand...
So more Jozy Altidores?

Pass.

This is not how this works. Like at all.

 
dschuler said:
Michael Jordan was 6’7, very tough to play at that height.  Bo Jackson would need to cut about 40 lbs.  Allen Iverson is probably the best crossover athlete I could think of as far as quickness and build to run around for 90 minutes.  
Click to expand...
These guys were built this way because of what they grew up focusing on. Bo Jackson was a phenom and would have been amazing at anything he’d grown up playing. It’s all hypothetical but it’s an example. There are tons of other pro athletes who may have better fit the soccer mold as well and been dominant. You’ll just never know who or which because they had other more enticing options here in America. Hard to understand why this is controversial. 

 
bagger said:
So more Jozy Altidores?

Pass.

This is not how this works. Like at all.
Click to expand...
Yes I get it. Soccer is a game of skill. All these other sports don’t involve skill but, whooboy, soccer?  Great skills required. All the skills. 

 
If I have to listen to thto British guy I know and his wife who has basically become wannabe Brit talk about “footie” on Instagram one more day I’m going to punch a nun. How much longer does this go down before we can pack it in for another 4 years?

 
Otis said:
Yes I get it. Soccer is a game of skill. All these other sports don’t involve skill but, whooboy, soccer?  Great skills required. All the skills. 
Click to expand...
Just different skill. It’s not like all of these remaining countries have a bunch of ripped athletes that are out strengthening the US.

I am pretty sure the England team is just the varsity Hufflepuff Quidditch squad from Hogwarts. :shrug:

 
Otis said:
If I have to listen to thto British guy I know and his wife who has basically become wannabe Brit talk about “footie” on Instagram one more day I’m going to punch a nun. How much longer does this go down before we can pack it in for another 4 years?
Click to expand...
About a week. 

HTH

 
Otis said:
Yes I get it. Soccer is a game of skill. All these other sports don’t involve skill but, whooboy, soccer?  Great skills required. All the skills. 
Click to expand...
Different skills. And there is a reason that some athletes play basketball and some do shotput or triathlon. Not all athletes can be golden in all sports, even with top training - they find what they are good at (and generally what their muscle types and body types match) and stick with it.

 
msommer said:
Different skills. And there is a reason that some athletes play basketball and some do shotput or triathlon. Not all athletes can be golden in all sports, even with top training - they find what they are good at (and generally what their muscle types and body types match) and stick with it.
Click to expand...
All fine. But when you have like eleventy more popular (or better) sports in a given country, can’t we at least acknowledge that soccer is likely losing top athletes to those other sports?

soccer dudes are stubbornish 

 
Otis said:
All fine. But when you have like eleventy more popular (or better) sports in a given country, can’t we at least acknowledge that soccer is likely losing top athletes to those other sports?

soccer dudes are stubbornish 
Click to expand...
Sure, as long as you acknowledge that other countries have other sports too besides the American ones

 
msommer said:
Sure, as long as you acknowledge that other countries have other sports too besides the American ones
Click to expand...
Sure, as long as you acknowledge that soccer is far more popular and/or the #1 sport in most of those countries, and they have far fewer popular choices, while it is at best the 5th or 6th most popular in the U.S. (behind at least hockey and maybe even golf?).

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Z
Tell me about tailgating
Replies
48
Views
841
Kiddnets
Kiddnets
NewlyRetired
What men’s team sport, besides football, is an American considered the best player in?
2
Replies
62
Views
1K
Runkle
Runkle
Clown Car
Will you vote for my friends kid? Player of the week
Replies
9
Views
148
Uruk-Hai
Uruk-Hai

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top