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Most teams have a plan if they lose a WR. The Patriots lost Givens and Branch. THen they drafted Chad Jackson, signed Caldwell, traded for Doug Gabriel, then WW picked up Gaffney.The Giants lost Toomer and did, um......NOTHING. They inserted a totally worthless hack named Tim Carter and thought all is well.
I would be hesitant to blame it on the receivers. Having seen him play a few times this year, he appears to have degressed all across the board. He is not throwing accurately, not making read progressions, and looks like he has lost his confidence.
You may be right, but I think it is more he doesn't have the motivation or dedication to the game Peyton has.
Eli can be criticized for many things right now are rightfully so, but his work ethic is beyond reproach and dedication to put in the time and effort to get better is well documented.
To the same extent that Peyton has? I would like to see that documented. I seriously doubt we will ever see audibles at the line of scrimmage as we do with Peyton.
Why bitter? I don't think it could have worked out better for us.
I don't know either Manning brother so I can't properly assess their comparative dedication to their sport. I can say that Eli is a very hard worker who puts in a lot of extra time during and after the season. I can also say that if we assigned any NFL player the tag "un-motivated" or "un-dedicated" simply because they were outworked by Payton, most every NFL player would have to wear that tag.To your second point, I see no connection between motivation/dedication and audibles at the LOS. Seems more like a coaching/scheme decision that a controlling disciplinarian like Coughlin seem unlikely to make.
That might be, but Eli was struggling long before Toomer got hurt. And considering the pedestrian numbers Toomer was putting up (13 catches in his last 5 full games, IIRC), it is not like they lost some stud wideout or anything.
Not all men (even those within the same gene pool) are created equal. He is Peyton's little brother and such is probably more used to losing than is Peyton.
Really?With Toomer:
They sure are. Did you know that 2 of the 3 games w/o Toomer have been against 2 of the top 3 ranked defenses (Chicago and Jacksonville) in the NFL? Yep, I am sure that has nothing to do with Eli's struggles.
I'm not going to get into a quibbling match with stats. Generally speaking, you can't discount Eli's completion % the first four games of the season like you can't discount long runs for RBs. The arguments that say,"... but his stats would have been worse if not for this game or that play" just doesn't hold water. All games and play count.On Toomer, he was much more integral to the Giants game plan then his receptions indicate. He was their possession receiver that opened up things for Plaxico and he was a very good blocker for the running game.They sure are. Did you know that 2 of the 3 games w/o Toomer have been against 2 of the top 3 ranked defenses (Chicago and Jacksonville) in the NFL? Yep, I am sure that has nothing to do with Eli's struggles.
Eli's 61% completion percentage in those first 8 games is inflated by the first 4 games. In games 5-8 (Toomer played in all of them), Eli's completion percentages were:
56.7
46.2
51.6
60.7
Seriously, if Eli is that reliant on a wide receiver that isn't even that good, then that says a lot about him as a QB.
Well, the better prepared player is more likely to be given the chance to call audibles at the LOS in the longrun, IMO. Yes, it is unlikely now with Coughlin, but my opinion is that it will never be likely with Eli, as he does not have the degree of preparation that Peyton has (or just about any other QB for that matter).
Huh? You should be happy! Due to Eli's prima donnaness, you got to see Brees develop into a Pro Bowl QB, groom the better of the two rookies that year, and have the now-groomed QB playing at an awesome level.Thanks Eli Manning!
The only thing I think this assessment lacks is Eli does not look like a leader out there and may never be a leader. I for one am not calling for Lorenzen, but I'm somewhat wishing A, we had a well-respected veteran QB on the sidelines to smack Eli around, or B, we kept Philip Rivers 
instead.
I'm now dumber for having read that.Nothing personal.
Carter is a former pick of the G-men and they drafted Moss
Agreed. He has no leadership skills. When he talks, no one listens. Beyond the needed skill set, any NFL QB has to have that naturally born ability to lead. Eli doesn't have it. He never will.
In 2003 Eli received Colonel Earl (Red) Blaik Leadership Award from The All-America Foundation.Just sayin'...Agreed. He has no leadership skills. When he talks, no one listens. Beyond the needed skill set, any NFL QB has to have that naturally born ability to lead. Eli doesn't have it. He never will.
I woukld hate to have to lead that offense. Let's see what he has to lead. A brain dead psycho in Shockey, an unmotivated underachiever in Plax and a vet RB in his last year who thinks he knows it all. Oh yeah and none of the 3 respect the head coach.In 2003 Eli received Colonel Earl (Red) Blaik Leadership Award from The All-America Foundation.Just sayin'...Agreed. He has no leadership skills. When he talks, no one listens. Beyond the needed skill set, any NFL QB has to have that naturally born ability to lead. Eli doesn't have it. He never will.
I'm not going to get into a quibbling match with stats. Generally speaking, you can't discount Eli's completion % the first four games of the season like you can't discount long runs for RBs. The arguments that say,"... but his stats would have been worse if not for this game or that play" just doesn't hold water. All games and play count.On Toomer, he was much more integral to the Giants game plan then his receptions indicate. He was their possession receiver that opened up things for Plaxico and he was a very good blocker for the running game.They sure are. Did you know that 2 of the 3 games w/o Toomer have been against 2 of the top 3 ranked defenses (Chicago and Jacksonville) in the NFL? Yep, I am sure that has nothing to do with Eli's struggles.
Eli's 61% completion percentage in those first 8 games is inflated by the first 4 games. In games 5-8 (Toomer played in all of them), Eli's completion percentages were:
56.7
46.2
51.6
60.7
Seriously, if Eli is that reliant on a wide receiver that isn't even that good, then that says a lot about him as a QB.
I'll agree that if Eli is that reliant on one WR it does say a lot about him as a QB: He is in his 2nd year of starting in the NFL and is currently struggling with his own play and a team decimated by injuries and a suspect play calling coaching staff.
Read into that all you like.
weren't you the dude that brought the stats up in the first place? regarding the question at hand.. i'm a Jet fan but watch every Giant game.. this kid starting to look an awful lot like Joey Harrington.. kind of aloof, not really involved in the game and seems distant from his teamates.. but then again, i'm not a psychologist (although i did get a bachelor of science in it)
don't forget a top five LB and a good kicker
And what's wrong with Eli? He sucks, that's what.
Yea I was.Stats are fine to illustrate certain points, but I didn't want to get into going back and forth and discecting the minutia of the various stats we could look at to show when Eli started sucking. I'm personally not interested in it and I don't think it will further the conversation.I'm not going to get into a quibbling match with stats. Generally speaking, you can't discount Eli's completion % the first four games of the season like you can't discount long runs for RBs. The arguments that say,"... but his stats would have been worse if not for this game or that play" just doesn't hold water. All games and play count.On Toomer, he was much more integral to the Giants game plan then his receptions indicate. He was their possession receiver that opened up things for Plaxico and he was a very good blocker for the running game.They sure are. Did you know that 2 of the 3 games w/o Toomer have been against 2 of the top 3 ranked defenses (Chicago and Jacksonville) in the NFL? Yep, I am sure that has nothing to do with Eli's struggles.
Eli's 61% completion percentage in those first 8 games is inflated by the first 4 games. In games 5-8 (Toomer played in all of them), Eli's completion percentages were:
56.7
46.2
51.6
60.7
Seriously, if Eli is that reliant on a wide receiver that isn't even that good, then that says a lot about him as a QB.
I'll agree that if Eli is that reliant on one WR it does say a lot about him as a QB: He is in his 2nd year of starting in the NFL and is currently struggling with his own play and a team decimated by injuries and a suspect play calling coaching staff.
Read into that all you like.
Whoa. Freakin whoa. So Coughlin throwing from deep in his own territory in a tie game with less than a minute left... is conservative? You want Tiki to run more, but complain the team's coach is too conservative in the same post? You want a run oriented O line, but don't want a conservative offense? Jeckle and Hyde, please, one stand up. Then someone says good post? LOL. Manning is inaccurate. He makes bad decisions. If he was a platoon Lt in nam, they would frag him because they would get killed following his direction. He looks lost because he IS lost. He is not, and never will be a good NFL QB. He looks like a dufus because he IS a dufus. The ONE thing any decent QB in the NFL has to have is the born abilty to lead. He doesn't have it. He never will.GordonGekko said:
Fair enough. I will leave you with one final stat. Earlier on ESPN, they said that since 2004, of all of the QB's with at least 1,000 pass attempts, Eli Manning ranks LAST in passer rating. LAST. Now, while I think that passer rating is not always the best indicator of how good a QB is or isn't, when you rank last over a span of 2 1/2 seasons, I know that is not a good thing.Yea I was.Stats are fine to illustrate certain points, but I didn't want to get into going back and forth and discecting the minutia of the various stats we could look at to show when Eli started sucking. I'm personally not interested in it and I don't think it will further the conversation.I'm not going to get into a quibbling match with stats. Generally speaking, you can't discount Eli's completion % the first four games of the season like you can't discount long runs for RBs. The arguments that say,"... but his stats would have been worse if not for this game or that play" just doesn't hold water. All games and play count.On Toomer, he was much more integral to the Giants game plan then his receptions indicate. He was their possession receiver that opened up things for Plaxico and he was a very good blocker for the running game.They sure are. Did you know that 2 of the 3 games w/o Toomer have been against 2 of the top 3 ranked defenses (Chicago and Jacksonville) in the NFL? Yep, I am sure that has nothing to do with Eli's struggles.
Eli's 61% completion percentage in those first 8 games is inflated by the first 4 games. In games 5-8 (Toomer played in all of them), Eli's completion percentages were:
56.7
46.2
51.6
60.7
Seriously, if Eli is that reliant on a wide receiver that isn't even that good, then that says a lot about him as a QB.
I'll agree that if Eli is that reliant on one WR it does say a lot about him as a QB: He is in his 2nd year of starting in the NFL and is currently struggling with his own play and a team decimated by injuries and a suspect play calling coaching staff.
Read into that all you like.
Not sure why that's so funny.
yes, he can't throw that far
Peyton and Archie say that Eli has a stronger arm than Peyton.Bri said:yes, he can't throw that far
That is an alarming stat, but it must be tempered by the fact that Coughlin goes down field a lot and doesn't do much to get his receivers open.Fair enough. I will leave you with one final stat. Earlier on ESPN, they said that since 2004, of all of the QB's with at least 1,000 pass attempts, Eli Manning ranks LAST in passer rating. LAST. Now, while I think that passer rating is not always the best indicator of how good a QB is or isn't, when you rank last over a span of 2 1/2 seasons, I know that is not a good thing.Yea I was.Stats are fine to illustrate certain points, but I didn't want to get into going back and forth and discecting the minutia of the various stats we could look at to show when Eli started sucking. I'm personally not interested in it and I don't think it will further the conversation.I'm not going to get into a quibbling match with stats. Generally speaking, you can't discount Eli's completion % the first four games of the season like you can't discount long runs for RBs. The arguments that say,"... but his stats would have been worse if not for this game or that play" just doesn't hold water. All games and play count.On Toomer, he was much more integral to the Giants game plan then his receptions indicate. He was their possession receiver that opened up things for Plaxico and he was a very good blocker for the running game.They sure are. Did you know that 2 of the 3 games w/o Toomer have been against 2 of the top 3 ranked defenses (Chicago and Jacksonville) in the NFL? Yep, I am sure that has nothing to do with Eli's struggles.
Eli's 61% completion percentage in those first 8 games is inflated by the first 4 games. In games 5-8 (Toomer played in all of them), Eli's completion percentages were:
56.7
46.2
51.6
60.7
Seriously, if Eli is that reliant on a wide receiver that isn't even that good, then that says a lot about him as a QB.
I'll agree that if Eli is that reliant on one WR it does say a lot about him as a QB: He is in his 2nd year of starting in the NFL and is currently struggling with his own play and a team decimated by injuries and a suspect play calling coaching staff.
Read into that all you like.
Not sure why that's so funny.
