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What's the upside of marriage for men? (2 Viewers)

So why is the topic *men*.... Shouldn't it just be marriage

What's the upside for marriage for women?

 
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offdee said:
belljr said:
HOT TAKE: guys in ####ty marriage thinks it's not worth it.   Guys in great marriage thinks it is
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Real question.....

And what percentage of married men do you think would honestly say they are in a great marriage and it's worth it?   
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I agree with @belljr - it's going to depend on the marriage.

To your question, the number is probably not big. But I could ask the same question about "life" in general / your job / where you live / etc. 

I'm on my second marriage. I did the first one the way a lot of people do - we started dating, moved in together after a year, all of a sudden 4 years goes by, and we're like "might as well...". But I have to admit I was never truly happy - it was just going through the motions, and we were together... just because. I finally got enlightened and got divorced. No kids, and no big assets - I got out before we could build enough life to make it overly messy (and it was still a *little* messy). 

Second marriage = we got married almost right away (within a month of meeting). We just 'knew", and it worked great. 23 years now, no kids, and we're still great together. And as I get older (56 this year), I do feel a comfort in this life we built together. But part of that life is the institution of the marriage - if we were just living together without that contract, it would be different. The piece of paper, like it or not, makes a difference (people ask "why do you want that?". I reply "for many of the same reasons you're afraid of it").   I don't think there is any right or wrong - nobody will convince you that marriage is better or worth it at this point in your life, and you won't be able to convince me your way is better either. It's all good.

My overall take: If the relationship's success and longevity depends on a feeling of "hey, let's never forget that either one of us can easily and cleanly end this in the time it takes to move a few possessions", that's great if it works for both of you. But it's not the same thing my wife and I have. We're all-in, without a net, and there is no "mine / yours" - it's all ours, and it would not be a clean "I go my way, you go yours, just get your stuff out" one-hour ending. This works for us, and it's very different than just living together.   

You may start changing your mind as you age further (and maybe not - a guy like Bill Mahar is always parroting how he loves not being married.) But I will say for me, in my mid-going-to-late 50's, with various "check engine" lights starting to appear as I get older, the feeling that we have a stable long-term contract (as opposed to a series of one-year contracts) is a good one.  

 
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offdee said:
Interesting take.  I'd venture to guess that most men would say this is exactly what the WOMEN should focus on.    I think majority of guys feel like they are getting taken advantage of by the women once that ring goes on a finger.
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I believe they’re looking at it the wrong way, then. Marriage should be a partnership, where both partners are giving their best to it and each other. It goes against human nature, because we’re selfish creatures, but unless that perception among men changes, this will only get worse. 

 
AAABatteries said:
Since you are narrowing it down to officially married then it seems fairly simple to me - commitment and the security and other benefits that come from the commitment.  Extra intimacy, less fear.  And I agree with whoever said that there's also an element of social acceptance or historical - "that's how we do things". 
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Extra intimacy?    I'd imagine majority of married guys would fully disagree with this statement.

 
offdee said:
Copying and pasting from my original post..

I read something yesterday that rang so true...women will love you unconditionally until they make you undesirable to them. It's not their fault, that's just who they are.
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I don't understand it one bit. I feel like what I wanted and expected out of the relationship was really clear in the beginning. Those things haven't changed one bit for me. If she was the way she is now when we first started dating, it never would have interested me. 

offdee said:
Interesting take.  I'd venture to guess that most men would say this is exactly what the WOMEN should focus on.    I think majority of guys feel like they are getting taken advantage of by the women once that ring goes on a finger.
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The way child support is set up, there's not much downside for a woman with a child to just move on with her life and hold onto ridiculous "non-partner" stances. My ex has a nicer car, nicer house etc. and hasn't had to pursue her career. She has a masters and is licensed. I'm not and have a 2 year degree. But when you're getting $800-$900 month, tax fee you can afford to make 45k/year.

If child support didn't obligate me to make my current wife's life seem like not much of a downgrade, I'd actually have a little leverage to tell her to get her head out of her ###. She's really pretty and will have zero problems finding the next guy.  Within a year, my kid's going to have a new guy in his life and I'm going to be eating beans for dinner and living on credit cards for the next 5 years until ex #2 is off my payroll.

It's pretty screwed up.

 
offdee said:
Extra intimacy?    I'd imagine majority of married guys would fully disagree with this statement.
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Physical intimacy is great and everything, but men, as much as they won’t admit it, need emotional intimacy as well. Emotional intimacy is also super important for women, and I’ve found if that need is met, she is likely to be more receptive to desires for physical intimacy. 

 
Don’t get married if you don’t have the perfect lady. I’m extremely happy, way more than I was in my youth but I know it’s not for everybody. It’s like anything, works for some people, doesn’t work for others. 
 

I have two friends in the dating circuit now (mid-40s) and they say it is hell on earth but marriage wouldn’t work for them either. Way it goes. 

 
Seems like a lot of men around here agree with the thoughts of Cam Newton.

*thats not a compliment. 

 
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offdee said:
Extra intimacy?    I'd imagine majority of married guys would fully disagree with this statement.
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I think a majority of long-term relationships, married or not, would disagree with that statement. If the intimacy is better not being married, it's almost certainly because you're changing it up every few weeks / months / years / etc. And that's fine if that's what you're after. 

 
Capella said:
Don’t get married if you don’t have the perfect lady. I’m extremely happy, way more than I was in my youth but I know it’s not for everybody. It’s like anything, works for some people, doesn’t work for others. 
 

I have two friends in the dating circuit now (mid-40s) and they say it is hell on earth but marriage wouldn’t work for them either. Way it goes. 
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I turn 46 next week and dating for me is so fun and entertaining.   I have about 5 different options at any one time with no big commitments. Ages range from 24 yrs old to 44 yrs old.  Living the dream.

 
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Toby2ElectricBugaloo said:
I've been happily married for 13 years and counting, and it's fantastic. I love spending time with my wife, the institution of marriage confers on us various minor but pleasant benefits and conveniences, and ultimately I think we both also enjoy the feeling of security we get from knowing that the bond between us can't be broken without some a good deal of effort and a cooling-down period.
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Yes, the many steps needed to complete a divorce and the cooling-down period that is available during that time is important. It's designed that way. I was reading a rabbi talking about that just a few days ago.

 
I'd think the idea of marriage is more desired by women than men.  It just seems that a lot of women have their heart set on getting married.  Maybe its the ceremony itself which is clearly more about the bride than the groom.   Doing the online dating thing after being divorced, its incredible to see the number of women that specifically state that they intend on getting married again.  Never say never, but I have zero desire to get married again.   

 
offdee said:
I turn 46 next week and dating for me is so fun and entertaining.   I have about 5 different options at any one time with no big commitments.  Living the dream.
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Marriage might not be right for you. But might be right for others. Errybody do what feels groovy? 

 
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dgreen said:
Our society basically pushes marriage on everyone. If you're not married by age X, then there just has to be something wrong with you. So, people who aren't really marriage material end up in failed marriages and it makes marriage seem like the problem when maybe the problem is that we've preached for so long that marriage is for everyone when maybe it's not.
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Kinda like college?  (American) Society is coming around on that, so maybe it will on marriage also?

 
offdee said:
Like...why?

And this is coming from someone who's been married (late 20's) and divorced (early 30's).   7 yr relationship living with a woman and her 3 kids (late 30's - early 40's), but smart enough not to get married.   Now single (mid 40's) and just enjoying life to the fullest with disposal income, all the personal time I'd ever want, and dating multiple younger women to keep me company/entertained whenever I want that.

It's so clear to me that marriage is just an archaic and terrible idea for men to ultimately be happy and satisfied with life.

I read something yesterday that rang so true...women will love you unconditionally until they make you undesirable to them. It's not their fault, that's just who they are.

I know this topic will probably upset many and we'll get the outlier stories of "wife is my best friend", "the kids make it worth it", etc. etc.  But I also know for a fact there is more of a majority that wish they never got married and want out but are miserable and stuck and just letting life play itself out.  That sucks.
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Somebody already said taxable benefit, right?

 
I've never thought about it before, but if my wife never wanted to get married I probably would have been on board. She wanted to, so we did. From my perspective, her reasons don't matter. We knew very quickly after meeting that we wanted to spend the rest of our lives together and that's never changed. So as I'm thinking out loud about this for the first time...why waste time & energy picking this battle? Even if logically marriage may be irrational. 

 
Kal El said:
I believe they’re looking at it the wrong way, then. Marriage should be a partnership, where both partners are giving their best to it and each other. It goes against human nature, because we’re selfish creatures, but unless that perception among men changes, this will only get worse. 
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Right. Similarly, so much of the focus in this thread has been on happiness of the man. If I'm not happy, I'm leaving. But what if the focus was on someone else's happiness rather than our own? That's not to say our own happiness is irrelevant or unimportant. But, what if our happiness at least partially came from the fact that someone else was happy and the role we play in making them happy? What if my focus in my marriage was making sure she has what she needs and wants rather than whether or not she's giving me what I need and want?

 
offdee said:
I turn 46 next week and dating for me is so fun and entertaining.   I have about 5 different options at any one time with no big commitments. Ages range from 24 yrs old to 44 yrs old.  Living the dream.
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Any thoughts on pretty objectively provable better financial and health/longevity outcomes? 

 
belljr said:
Well women can gasp work, pretty much have sex whenever they want ..... Still not seeing the upside
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I'll just say without upsetting too many...

Men age more gracefully than women.   As men age their value grows.  

I'll just leave it at that.

 
Neither my ex-wife nor I were thinking about marriage, but the 3 things she mentioned when she brought it up were health insurance, health decisions if one of us becomes incapacitated and having the same last name as the kids.  Some of those might have been able to be addressed through other means, but I was indifferent about marriage so we proceeded.  

 
NutterButter said:
Neither my ex-wife nor I were thinking about marriage, but the 3 things she mentioned when she brought it up were health insurance, health decisions if one of us becomes incapacitated and having the same last name as the kids.  Some of those might have been able to be addressed through other means, but I was indifferent about marriage so we proceeded.  
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Which all seem like very silly reasons to lock yourself into financial hardship if it ends up in divorce.

 
jamny said:
Married almost 30 years. Obviously we didn't have to get married but I'm glad we did. It just makes things more official because of the commitment. No kids, plenty of money, travel a lot. Enjoying life. 
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Been married 27 years, of which 26.5 have been awesome.  The other bad bits scattered throughout that time have passed and it's worth it to survive those.  I have to work 2800+ hours/year (and have for the last couple decades) to keep this job, so her being the rock that holds things together has worked incredibly well.  I couldn't do it, but she loves it.  Don't travel, work too damn much, have kids.  The journey has been worth it.

 
Jayrok said:
I think he used the "It isn't you, it's me" line.  Not my favorite team but I've always pulled for the Lions. It would be great if they ever became relevant. 
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That will be in the fairly near future. FWIW, I don’t mind the trade. He shouldn’t have had to sit through yet another rebuild, and the Lions can get better as a younger team.

 
offdee said:
I turn 46 next week and dating for me is so fun and entertaining.   I have about 5 different options at any one time with no big commitments. Ages range from 24 yrs old to 44 yrs old.  Living the dream.
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I think that's awesome and well done. 

I'm 50 and last night my wife and teenage daughters decided what movie we're going to watch together tonight. After dinner the wife and I will have a drink, cuddle up and crank up the movie with the kids, and I cannot wait. That's incredibly lame but I'm psyched nonetheless. 

 
offdee said:
Which all seem like very silly reasons to lock yourself into financial hardship if it ends up in divorce.
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Yeah, but that's the last thing on your mind at the time.   Luckily wasn't the case for us.   It was an easy divorce and both of us make good salaries.   No lawyers so the paperwork was still a pita.   And you asked for some benefits.  :shrug:  

 
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offdee said:
Which all seem like very silly reasons to lock yourself into financial hardship if it ends up in divorce.
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In all honesty, it seems like the no-marriage conclusion you have come to is at least 75% financial. Seems odd considering it sounds like your divorce didnt financially hurt you? Im no expert, but dont most state have common law marriage so one could just as easily lose out financially if a long term, no marriage situation flamed out? 

 
I don't post that as a knock against single guys or those who think single life is better. Just always thought it was a funny scene.

 
Sand said:
Been married 27 years, of which 26.5 have been awesome.  The other bad bits scattered throughout that time have passed and it's worth it to survive those.  I have to work 2800+ hours/year (and have for the last couple decades) to keep this job, so her being the rock that holds things together has worked incredibly well.  I couldn't do it, but she loves it.  Don't travel, work too damn much, have kids.  The journey has been worth it.
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We had a tough stretch in around our 5th or 6th year. Nothing serious but money was tight at the time and we (mostly her) were like "is this all there is?" We almost separated. Had we not been married we might have just broken up and it would have been the worst move of my life. There comes a moment where you realize how you only have one life and to be able to share it with someone is something special. 

 
Jackstraw said:
Any thoughts on pretty objectively provable better financial and health/longevity outcomes? 
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Those outcomes are only there if that marriage lasts, correct?  What about for the other half where they don’t?  What’s their life expectancy and financial outcome?  

 
My wife and I have been married 22 years but neither one of us views it as anything different from a committed relationship without the paperwork. She had two kids from a previous marriage and I wanted to get married more for the kids than anything. Being in relationship prior or being married and actually finding the right person to be with are the keys. My wife is freaking awesome, loves sex, hates nagging, let’s me do my thing, has her own things, lots of things in common, generally chill about life and dealing with challenges. The paperwork doesn’t change anything in my book.

Looking outward though I agree that too many get married because they are supposed to. I see a lot of relationships that you wonder why the hell they stay together ... paperwork or not.

 
Cjw_55106 said:
In all honesty, it seems like the no-marriage conclusion you have come to is at least 75% financial. Seems odd considering it sounds like your divorce didnt financially hurt you? Im no expert, but dont most state have common law marriage so one could just as easily lose out financially if a long term, no marriage situation flamed out? 
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It probably comes off that way because the only logical reasons many say of why you should get married are financial actually (health benefits, tax breaks, etc). 

My point is this....If you want to be in a committed relationship than great, do that.  There is just absolutely no logical reason why one needs to sign a legal document that makes it very hard to separate without it being financially detrimental.  And usually the male takes the brunt of that financial hit.  

Just be together and committed...I'm all for it.   The concept of legal marriage is just archaic and silly.

 
Cjw_55106 said:
I dont know about financials, but tons of studies have shown married men live longer and are in better health than single men.
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Sorta.  You only get that improved outcome if you remain married.  If you get divorced (which in US is a 50-50 shot) your life expectance is shorter than that of a bachelor (though it’s close).  

 
offdee said:
I turn 46 next week and dating for me is so fun and entertaining.   I have about 5 different options at any one time with no big commitments. Ages range from 24 yrs old to 44 yrs old.  Living the dream.
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And just as you say the people that are in really happy marriages are the exception, i think this is the exception for a 46 year old divorced guy living in suburbia.  

 
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matttyl said:
Sorta.  You only get that improved outcome if you remain married.  If you get divorced (which in US is a 50-50 shot) your life expectance is shorter than that of a bachelor (though it’s close).  
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I know this 50/50 stat gets thrown out about divorce all the time, but is there any updated studies of what the new ratio of divorce is these days?  It has to be higher than 50% at this point, no?

And the reality is this 50/50 stat is for the couples brave enough to actually take the divorce step.  Of those 50% married, what percentage of those just stay married but are miserable?   Being nice, let's just say half of those stay married, but wish they had an out.

So that would put it at 75% either divorced or unhappily married.  And I'd say that's being generous.

 
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I'm 48 and I've seen the wreckage and the successes. I don't have a blanket opinion other than that it's not for me. 

Heck, I used to sing Free Bird to the girl I saw as the closest marriage candidate for me. And it just wasn't to be. 

Not for me. Yet. I could be one of those people that get married when nothing works anymore at 60. Who knows? 

 
offdee said:
But why the need to get legally married then?  Especially if not having kids.  Doesn't make any logical sense for a man.
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1. What if it’s important to the woman? Let’s say you love her and want to spend the rest of your life with her. She feels the same but getting married is important to her. Are you going to lose the love of your life simply because you didn’t want to get married (even though you do intend to spend the rest of your days with her)? Seems silly. 

2. Easier for almost all financial stuff, not just taxes. Think about retirement, estate planning, etc. 

3. Just odd being 50 or so and saying “my girlfriend of 20 years”.

4. Kids. As others said. Not my thing but marriage helps here, imo.

 
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