Nicks used to be able to use his body and catch it anyway, even though he was covered. Some poor Eli throws made him have to turn into Calvin for a play or two. Reggie Wayne has often been the focus of a D, demanded top CBs, and done well anyway. If you're a Da'Rick fan, these are two fine veterans for him to learn from. If he's going to be a #1 someday then he needs to steal some of these veterans' habits.
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What's up with Da'rick Rogers (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter hotboyz
- Start date
Catbird
Footballguy
The key reason for keeping Rogers on the end of your dynasty bench, if you have room and think he has the talent and makeup to play in the NFL, is that Luck will be around for a long time, Hilton is a good but unspectacular talent and both Wayne and Nicks could be physically done by next winter.
Touchdown There
Footballguy
I have Rogers and might need the bench space. It is fair to assume he will not get picked up by ff competitors until injuries happen ahead of him. At wr4 for the Colts it is tough to hold him with 20 man rosters.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
If I were you I'd try to package him with a later 2nd for an early 2nd or something like that. Maybe throw in another later pick too to get it done. Rather than straight cutting him and hoping you're the first to get him back if he hits, just get some value out of him now and let someone else grapple with whether to cut him or not.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I really like him simply because of the proximity he has to be Andrew Lucks best weapon. Wayne is old and hurt. Nicks is a rental.
Bronx Bomber
Footballguy
Yeah, if you drop him come to terms with him getting picked up first. That way if it happens you're okay with it...and I'm betting it happens. I'd also go the trade route but you're selling a guy at zero that has tons of upside if you can find a way to stash and be a little patient.ConnSKINS26 said:
massraider
Footballguy
If Hilton is an unspectacular talent, then Rogers is a pedestrian talent. He's a top three deep threat, brother.
Milkman
Footballguy
Rogers is still a hold but it's tough because you are not going to get a lot out of him this year barring injury. He is saying and doing the right things this offseason from what I have read. He reminds me of a mix between Dez Bryant and Reggie Wayne. If you can hold him I would because he's basically worth nothing in trade value at this time. Still lots of upside though playing with Luck.
Catbird
Footballguy
I'm not going to fight you, 'Rider. I like Hilton and would be buying. But he has a dynasty ADP of around WR 25-30 and is ranked about the same by FBG staff. 5 spots below Kendall Wright and 5 ahead of Terrance Williams. I think he may be a bit of a one trick pony, but a dynamic one. I'm comfortable with, "good but unspectacular talent" and willing to pay for him as such. My main point was that I don't think Wayne or Nicks have enough future as Colts to block Rogers for long if he has the physical and mental make up to be a player. I think he's in a MUCH better dynasty situation to break out than most 4th WRs.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
If Rogers hits his stride, I think he'll be right on par with Hilton. He's a totally different receiver and I think his physical profile is such that if he can keep his #### together he can be a star. You have to mitigate the risk of him just losing his #### though and thus his value will have an asterick for a while. He's a poor man's Brandon Marshall in a lot of ways.
Louche
Footballguy
Indy picking Moncrief was pretty much the worst possible scenario for Rogers' owners. They basically went and picked another Da'Rick Rogers sans the red flags. A young and raw physical freak prototype size/speed x receiver with holes in his game who will take a couple seasons to develop a playing style that works in the NFL. This wasn't particularly good for neither Rogers nor Moncrief. I would assume that Rogers will still get his chances this season, as Moncrief will need time, but he'd better perform.
Milkman
Footballguy
Yes I would. When I watch him play he looks really good to me and he has been saying and doing all the right things in Indy. Drafting Moncrief doesn't mean they don't believe in Rogers. Wayne is done after this year probably and Nicks may not be here next year. Indy's starting WR in 2015 could be Rogers, Hilton, Moncrief.
loose circuits
Footballguy
Both Nicks & Wayne gone after this year, room for both
Hankmoody
Footballguy
Very low, yes. Moncrief doesn't scare me yet. Too many WR's completely bust - Jonathan Baldwin, Titus Young, Greg Little, Austin Pettis, Leonard Hankerson, Vincent Brown, Jernell Jernigan, AJ Jenkins, Brian Quick, Stephen Hill, DeVier Posey, TJ Graham, Mohammad Sanu - all were 1-3 round draft picks in 2011 and 2012. It's alarming just how wrong so many of those picks were. I realize there were some injuries peppered in there, but every football player gets injured and plenty have rebounded from them, including blown out knees etc., to return to form.
lod01
Footballguy
No it was much better than Davante Adams or Latimer for instance. Moncrief drops passes and is a body catcher. They don't last in the NFL. Dude doesn't scare this Rogers owner.
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
I have no idea what Rogers future looks like. I think he is heads and shoulders better than Brazill and if it comes down to those 2 it will be an easy decision. Brazill also was suspended for the first 4 games of last year for substance abuse.
I think drafting Moncrief is a lock to make the team as a 3rd round pick but I still think Rogers enters the year ahead of him on the depth chart. The problem is Rogers will be 4th on the WR depth chart entering the year. Nicks/Wayne/Hilton are the early front runners. It will take an injury for Rogers to get some burn this year.
I really have no idea what I have with Rogers going forward. I do like that he is in Indy, but it is a very complicated and crowded crew right now.
I think drafting Moncrief is a lock to make the team as a 3rd round pick but I still think Rogers enters the year ahead of him on the depth chart. The problem is Rogers will be 4th on the WR depth chart entering the year. Nicks/Wayne/Hilton are the early front runners. It will take an injury for Rogers to get some burn this year.
I really have no idea what I have with Rogers going forward. I do like that he is in Indy, but it is a very complicated and crowded crew right now.
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
He is not a lock to make the team for sure. Talent wise he should, but it will be his mental side that may stop him from making the team. It was noted he was working hard last year and things were going well. I have no idea how his off season has been or where he sits with the team.
It is way too early one way or another to know if Nicks and Wayne are gone after this year. There are a ton of questions that will start to become more clear as training camp and the season unfold. It is one to monitor as being a receiving threat with Luck throwing you the ball has a ton of upside.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Any dynasty owner drafting Rogers - I'm one of those - had to do so with the idea that they'd be in a minimum 2 year hold with him. I'm prepared to hold at least 3 years unless he reverts to being a bad actor - something he's shown no sign of yet.
No one seriously expected him to break out in 1 yr or less. Hoped, maybe - bit expected?
No one seriously expected him to break out in 1 yr or less. Hoped, maybe - bit expected?
MAC_32
Footballguy
now would be a good buying window for this former udfa. He won't cost much. And you should know if he will ever be anything by the end of this year.
DropKick
Footballguy
Well stated but I think I can name about 100 WRs who never reached their full potential because of their ego or off the field problems. Unfortunately, It is the "diva" position of the NFL and Rogers seems headed for that list.
Now, if only these guys had the blue collar work ethic of an NHL player...
That said, we have somewhat restricted rosters and I would consider him as a WR6 if I don't allocate the spot to a RB.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Brazil and Rodgers play different roles in the offense.
I seriously think that Rodgers roster spot on Indy is in jeopardy and I dont think he plays special teams.
Hilton, Wayne, Nicks, Moncrief, Brazil, Whalen. all could make the team over him
Now he might catch on another team after Indy cuts him but that will be 3 teams in 3 years for a UDFA, meh
loose circuits
Footballguy
but if it's carolina or cleveland where he goes in and becomes the 2nd best WR on the team, then it's even better
I doubt Rogers gets cut for pedestrian talents such as Brazil and Whalen. I think he has just as much of a shot as Moncrief there. Those guys played over him simply because he didn't have the playbook down because he arrived in Indy late. Things should change this season
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bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Carolina and Cleveland already passed on him, multiple times.
If the guy cant figure out the playbook, or run the rights routes whats it matter his perceived "talent" is.
Indy made a much bigger investment in Moncrief than Rodgers. players like Brazil and Whalen will play a different WR position than Rodgers will.
coolnerd
Footballguy
There are plenty of guys in the NHL try (or maybe even do) get by on their talent versus being some "hard-working Joe." I will let you go find the stories of those dudes yourself.
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loose circuits
Footballguy
Panthers & Browns still need WR talent and he's better than what they have.
if you want to continue to hate and write the guy off, that is your prerogative.
The issue with the playbook stems from him getting in late. That happens to a lot of young players and even veterans. The terminology is completely different, they don't get reps with the 1's until injury happens so they spend most of their time running scout team. Not unusual because it is difficult to learn with only mental reps.
You keep saying that Whalen and Brazil play different position, but Wayne or Nicks can just as easily kick inside if they choose to keep more outside WR's.
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bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
im just trying to express what I think is going to happen in Indy, his spot on that team is in trouble. WIll he be cut? I think its a distinct possibility.
Would he be picked up by another team? Probably, lets not act like hes going to walk on the field in cleveland or carolina and start and be via fantasty option anytime soon. He isnt better than Kelvin Benjamin or Josh Gordon nor would he cut into the TE's production on those respective teams.
Maybe Indy keeps him and buries him on the depth chart too.
His FF value isnt that high IMO
Im not hating, we are all trying to predict the future and I dont hink Rodgers future in the NFL is that rosy
loose circuits
Footballguy
the main question is has he learned from his past indiscretions? If the answer to that question is yes, then his future is bright because he has the talent. To me, he's been the one holding himself back. He turns 23 in a little over a week, how can you already be ready to write off his career? I have not heard anything out of Indy to make me doubt, but you never know until it is too late.
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jurb26
Footballguy
If he gets cut by Indy. He would have been an undrafted FA rookie who was cut by 2 teams in 2 years. That is huge blow to the theory that he has all this talent you speak of. Especially considering that the teams he would have been cut by don't exactly have a roster of top flight WRs. Actually, they have pretty bellow average talent at the position. Yet, he still would not have even made those teams. It seems you are not willing to see him as a bad player no matter what happens and have blind faith. Thinking he will simply catch on with another team and suddenly become a future star in light of what I just said happening is about as rare as it gets. Has it ever happened before?
lod01
Footballguy
The only way he gets cut is if he steps out of line. They will cut Whalen and put him on PS before they cut Rogers. He is in a fight for the #4 WR spot with Brazil and Moncrief but Moncrief is a body catcher. Lose Rogers and then you have Wayne in what I believe is his final year and Nicks only playing for a bigger payday elsewhere in 2015. Lose them both and you are down to Hilton again.
lod01
Footballguy
It's because only in the last few years have perceived bad apples been passed over in the draft. 5 years ago, Rogers is drafted in the middle rounds and sticks on the team for 2-3 years. See the 2 bums that Washington drafted a few years back...Thomas and Kelly.
Also remember that the team that cut him, Buffalo, is totally inept. They haven't been relevant in this century - 1 year over .500 record of 9-7 in 2004.
jurb26
Footballguy
I'm willing to concede this point,
I was actually think about that very thing when I posted before. It's a big if, but IF Indy turns around and does the same thing... Cuts him. It's a huge red flag. 2 teams, UDFA... Can't be blamed on a teams ineptness at that point.
lod01
Footballguy
Definitely if Indy were to cut him, it doesn't bode well. Conversely, if they keep him it bodes very well with Luck at QB. He has the best chance he could ask for to succeed so it's simply up to him. The talent is there. He was considered by some to be the best WR of that draft class.I'm willing to concede this point,
I think he could be a model citizen and still likely get cut. If they only keep 5 WR's it's a 3 way battle for that last spot and my money is on Brazil. Rogers snap counts really only picked up when Brazil got dinged up and when Brazil got healthy again for the playoffs it was hard to not notice both Whalen and Brazil almost doubling up Rogers snap counts.
You can say Rogers was less familiar with the playbook and I'd agree that they had a little advantage in that department but Whalen was a rookie and Brazil did not have a lot of experience and all 3 were playing with a new OC. That and fact that if knowing the playbook was the issue keeping Rogers snap count low it should have increased as the season progressed but instead it decreased in the playoffs in favor of both Brazil and Whalen, two players you seem to assume they would rather cut over Rogers.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
I would say it would be a huge positive if he ends up making the team. That will speak volumes that the club believes in him. Brazil can make plays (see Cincy last year) and Whalen is capable at the back end of the depth chart.
loose circuits
Footballguy
both Whalen & Brazil were in training camp where they run 2nd & 3rd team offenses, not to mention game action. Rogers did not have that luxury. Also, who was whalen's OC at Stanford? Also, was his 2nd year in NFLmenobrown said:
MAC_32
Footballguy
it'll depend on what happens in camp obviously, but I think it's clearer than most think. Wayne, Hilton, and Allen are the primary guys. Nicks, Rogers, and Moncrief battle for three wide sets. Fleener complicates things short term if he improves though. Instead of going three wide they could go two wr two te. Not optimistic though, Fleener has not played well at all in the nfl.If everyone stays healthy and those three earn spots then Branch gets cut and Brazill and Whalen battle for the last roster spot. The better special teams player probably gets it.
Long term, Moncrief and Rogers are the ones battling for the starting spot opposite Hilton. If Nicks plays well enough to justify a starting spot somewhere the only way he stays in Indy is if both Moncrief and Rogers flop IMHO. No reason to spend on Nicks if you have similar but more cost effective options.
MAC_32
Footballguy
righht now? Yeah. I don't think Moncrief will ever realize his potential, kinda like college, but to dismiss it right now would be crazy IMHO. Give him a chance with new coaches and a MUCH better qb.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Based on what? Indy thought soooo much of mr, rodgers that they signed hakeem nicks and spent their 3rd rounder on a wr
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Thinking of cutting Rogers for Marquise Goodwin of the Bills. If figure Goodwin beat his butt out for a roster spot, probably a pretty good indicator of relative value.
You are completely dismissing waynes uncertainty. If I was grigson, down to just hilton, whalen, brazil healthy, I would have brought another wr in as well And draft one Iif it was a good fit. Rogers is still a question mark no doubt, but waynes uncertainty played a large role there as well
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Marquise Goodwin would be a poor use of a roster spot for you. At least Rogers has the potential skill-set of a fantasy WR1/2. Goodwin is a limited deep threat on a team that just drafted (probably) an even better deep threat.
GoodLloydHaveMercy
Footballguy
Not necessarily... For all we know Goodwin won his spot over Rogers for his ability to play special teams and the fact that The HC seems to have a proclivity for speed speed speed an even though Rogers isn't slow he doesn't give u the type of game breaking speed that Goodwin can provide... I'm a huge fan of Goodwin as well especially in return yardage leagues but his outlook for production outside of returns is bleak at best unless ur in a best ball format... Behind Watkins, Williams, and Woods on an offense who is run heavy by nature doesn't bode well for offensive production... Also a big possibility that Watkins takes returns
Back to Rogers I think his status with the team is tied to 2015 more than 2014... A lot more will be known after team camp... Without an injury in season he may not do much but we shall see how he handles not being involved week to week
r0llin_game
Footballguy
This is pretty irrelevant in regards to Cleveland as they changed front office personnel once again. You guys also act like Nicks (on a one year deal) and Wayne (who is probably in his last year at Indy, let alone, NFL) are sticking around in Indy forever. This easily could be Rogers, Moncrief as the X and Y with Hilton running the slot next year. This thread is geared more towards dynasty, so patience is still needed.
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
For sure it is dynasty related, but a couple of thinks need to play out here for Rogers to have value. First he has to make the roster which is a question at this time. Secondly, he will have to start playing a regular snap eventually if he has any use fantasy wise. Nick could have a break-out year with Luck and the Colts could resign him. Wayne could sign a cheap 1 or 2 year deal to stay and Indy and take snaps away from him. Hilton is locked in as a starter for the time being. I like Rogers, but there is still so much to play out.
