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Which position is most important (1 Viewer)

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  • OT

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • OG

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • C

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • TE

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • WR

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • RB

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • QB

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • DE

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • DT

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • OLB

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • MLB

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • DB

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • S

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
Spinoff of this thread:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...owtopic=237364&

And all the other threads around who should take what. Vote for which one you think is most important to a team.

As a secondary issue, you could rank them completely in order of importance IE

1: CB

2: OT

3: DE

4: QB

5: DT

etc etc

Exclude salary cap considerations from your decision making for now.

Obviously I understand football is a team game, and several pieces need to function together as a unit, but for your $$, what position do you think is the most important?

 

BlueOnion

Footballguy
Defensive End. A blue chip guy who requires double teams regardless of pass or rush is irreplaceable. Must control the line of scrimmage. Same case could be made for OT or DT.

 

Warhogs

Footballguy
Quarterback. Look at the Ravens and Bills for a couple of examples of how teams struggle when they play a QB who is not good enough or not ready to play. Throw in SF as well. The QB has his hands on the ball on every offensive play and he has to be able to make good decisions. He can virtually effect every offensive play passing or running by fumbling, interception, bad handoff, as well as all positives. That is my thoughts.

 

T Man

Footballguy
Darn it. Beat me to it.

But I think most peolpe are going to instinctively choose QB, so it would be interesting to find out the most important after QB.

 

BlueOnion

Footballguy
Quarterback. Look at the Ravens and Bills for a couple of examples of how teams struggle when they play a QB who is not good enough or not ready to play. Throw in SF as well. The QB has his hands on the ball on every offensive play and he has to be able to make good decisions. He can virtually effect every offensive play passing or running by fumbling, interception, bad handoff, as well as all positives. That is my thoughts.
Are you talking about Trent Dilfer?
 

Dolfan

Footballguy
I think head coach/coaching staff is probably more important to having a championship team than any single position listed...

I voted OT -- should've been LT because I don't think anyone would have voted RT and their is a huge difference between the two positions..

After LT, I would rank the positions as follows:

2. RB

3. LB

4. DT

5. DE

6. QB

7. WR

8. TE

9. CB

10. S

11. Rest of OL

 

FrostBite

Footballguy
Quarterback. Look at the Ravens and Bills for a couple of examples of how teams struggle when they play a QB who is not good enough or not ready to play. Throw in SF as well. The QB has his hands on the ball on every offensive play and he has to be able to make good decisions. He can virtually effect every offensive play passing or running by fumbling, interception, bad handoff, as well as all positives. That is my thoughts.
Are you talking about Trent Dilfer?
Trent Dilfer was a great QB for that team.
 

FrostBite

Footballguy
This whole poll is flawed... its a team sport and you need solid pieces of the entire puzzle to make a championship team.

 

Dolfan

Footballguy
Quarterback. Look at the Ravens and Bills for a couple of examples of how teams struggle when they play a QB who is not good enough or not ready to play. Throw in SF as well. The QB has his hands on the ball on every offensive play and he has to be able to make good decisions. He can virtually effect every offensive play passing or running by fumbling, interception, bad handoff, as well as all positives. That is my thoughts.
I gotta disagree with you here, but this topic has already been discussed at length really in the Build a Franchise thread...There was one camp that basically said what you said..

And then there is another camp (that I'm in) that says that QBs are a product of their surrounding talent.

A QB can't do anything if he has no talent around him. Good QBs can look awful on a poor team (think Brett Favre) and bad QBs can look great on great teams (think Jake Plummer)..

 

hoopsfan3386

Footballguy
QB. They aren't the only piece and shouldn't be treated as such but are easily the biggest piece.

If you take other groups as a unit they might rival the importance ie OL instead of just one OT. If we're talking single player on the field it's QB and not even that interesting a discussion.

 

Frenchy Fuqua

Footballguy
Quarterback.  Look at the Ravens and Bills for a couple of examples of how teams struggle when they play a QB who is not good enough or not ready to play.  Throw in SF as well.  The QB has his hands on the ball on every offensive play and he has to be able to make good decisions.  He can virtually effect every offensive play passing or running by fumbling, interception, bad handoff, as well as all positives.  That is my thoughts.
Are you talking about Trent Dilfer?
Trent Dilfer was a great QB for that team.
Always an exception but if you sift through all 40 SB winners you'll find 90% had a good or great QB, if only for that year. Look at the top NFL salaries, franchise QBs are always at the top. You couldn't pry Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer or Ben Roethlisberger away from their current team for any left tackle or defensive end in the NFL.
 

Dolfan

Footballguy
QB. They aren't the only piece and shouldn't be treated as such but are easily the biggest piece.

If you take other groups as a unit they might rival the importance ie OL instead of just one OT. If we're talking single player on the field it's QB and not even that interesting a discussion.
You do realize that the starting QBs for the Final 4 teams last year were:Ben Roethlisberger

Jake Plummer

Jake Delhomme

and Matt Hasselbeck

don't you??

Pro Bowl QBs for last year:

Tom Brady

Peyton Manning

Steve McNair

Trent Green

Carson Palmer

Michael Vick

Jake Delhomme

Matt Hasselbeck

Only 2 of the 4 made the 8 Pro Bowl QBs last year...

Top 5 QBs Completions, 2005:

Brett Favre

Carson Palmer

Tom Brady

Drew Brees

Trent Green

None of the 4 were in the top 5 for completions...

Top 5 QBs Passing Yards, 2005:

Tom Brady

Trent Green

Brett Favre

Carson Palmer

Eli Manning

None of the 4 were in the top 5 for passing yards...

Top 5 QBs Passing TDs, 2005:

Carson Palmer

Peyton Manning

Tom Brady

Eli Manning

Drew Brees

None of the 4 were in the top 5 for passing TDs...

How important is a good QB again??

 

Dolfan

Footballguy
Always an exception but if you sift through all 40 SB winners you'll find 90% had a good or great QB, if only for that year.
This kind of proves my point. If they were only great QBs for that one year (think Trent Dilfer), couldn't that be because, for that one year, they had good enough talent around them for the team to make it to the Super Bowl?
Look at the top NFL salaries, franchise QBs are always at the top. You couldn't pry Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer or Ben Roethlisberger away from their current team for any left tackle or defensive end in the NFL.
Unfortunately, in real-life NFL, owners don't pay players based on their contributions toward winning a championship, which is what I thought the question in this poll was...
 
Quarterback. Look at the Ravens and Bills for a couple of examples of how teams struggle when they play a QB who is not good enough or not ready to play. Throw in SF as well. The QB has his hands on the ball on every offensive play and he has to be able to make good decisions. He can virtually effect every offensive play passing or running by fumbling, interception, bad handoff, as well as all positives. That is my thoughts.
Are you talking about Trent Dilfer?
Trent Dilfer was a great QB for that team.
Always an exception but if you sift through all 40 SB winners you'll find 90% had a good or great QB, if only for that year. Look at the top NFL salaries, franchise QBs are always at the top. You couldn't pry Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer or Ben Roethlisberger away from their current team for any left tackle or defensive end in the NFL.
If you sift through the most recent SB participants, you get journeymen or "guys out of nowhere" like Brad Johnson, Rich Gannon, Kerry Collins, Trent Dilfer, Jake Delhomme, Kurt Warner, Neil O'Donnel, Chris Chandler etc etc.You've got winners and losers on that list. All of those teams had pretty darn good olines.

I dunno if Hasselbeck is a franchise QB, but he certainly has a franchise OT and a darn good oline in general.

If Matt Hasselbeck can be made to look like Tom Brady, if only for one year, through the acquisition of a dominant o-line.. That's all you need to win a Super Bowl. If Hass turns into a pumpkin in one or two years, you throw another guy behind that o-line and turn him into a star as well.

A good oline can make an average QB look better. Can a good QB make an average oline look better?

 

FrostBite

Footballguy
Quarterback. Look at the Ravens and Bills for a couple of examples of how teams struggle when they play a QB who is not good enough or not ready to play. Throw in SF as well. The QB has his hands on the ball on every offensive play and he has to be able to make good decisions. He can virtually effect every offensive play passing or running by fumbling, interception, bad handoff, as well as all positives. That is my thoughts.
Are you talking about Trent Dilfer?
Trent Dilfer was a great QB for that team.
Always an exception but if you sift through all 40 SB winners you'll find 90% had a good or great QB, if only for that year. Look at the top NFL salaries, franchise QBs are always at the top. You couldn't pry Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer or Ben Roethlisberger away from their current team for any left tackle or defensive end in the NFL.
If you sift through the most recent SB participants, you get journeymen or "guys out of nowhere" like Brad Johnson, Rich Gannon, Kerry Collins, Trent Dilfer, Jake Delhomme, Kurt Warner, Neil O'Donnel, Chris Chandler etc etc.You've got winners and losers on that list. All of those teams had pretty darn good olines.

I dunno if Hasselbeck is a franchise QB, but he certainly has a franchise OT and a darn good oline in general.

If Matt Hasselbeck can be made to look like Tom Brady, if only for one year, through the acquisition of a dominant o-line.. That's all you need to win a Super Bowl. If Hass turns into a pumpkin in one or two years, you throw another guy behind that o-line and turn him into a star as well.

A good oline can make an average QB look better. Can a good QB make an average oline look better?
He said Super Bowl winners! Not just participants. ;) Oh and to answer your question... how about John Elway? Although he didn't "win" a SB until Terrell Davis and the Oline were pretty dominant. But I would say that Elway did make an average line look better.

 
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hoopsfan3386

Footballguy
QB is rarely a "weak link" on a championship team. Those finding less than stud qb's on a few SB winners aren't making that big a point. I'm sure you can find average and even poor players throughout the positions on teams that have won SB's.

 

DoubleG

Footballguy
QB is rarely a "weak link" on a championship team. Those finding less than stud qb's on a few SB winners aren't making that big a point. I'm sure you can find average and even poor players throughout the positions on teams that have won SB's.
:goodposting: Simply put, you can possibly win a SB with a "decent" QB - but only if he is surrounded by great players at other positions. Many are making the argument that Dilfer had "a great O-line and running game and defense" Well, if it takes that much talnet at all those positions to make up for a "decent" QB - how does that NOT prove the point??

If you are going to build a championship team, you need to start with a good-great QB. You can win with less than a stud, but not with lousy QBs.

As the only person (other than the center) to touch the ball on every offensive play, the QB is the most important, in terms of his ability to make good decisions and have the skills to be effective. Her doesn't have to be an absolute stud, but he is the most important.

Showing the few exceptions, seems to me, proves the rule more than it refutes it. Especially when people are sayings like "he had a great o-line" - O-line is not a player, it is a group of 5.

QB is the most important individula position on the football field. Still don't buy it? Follow the money.

 

jurb26

Footballguy
One thing to note is that these list can change a good bit based off of the scheme (D moreso than O IMO) the team runs. For instance, DT is far more important in a 3-4 D than DE, yet in a 4-3 D you may want to get a stud DE before a stud DT. 3-4 would require far better OLBs vs ILB and 4-3 would want that Ray Lewis type ILB.

 

hoopsfan3386

Footballguy
Spinoff of this thread:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...owtopic=237364&

And all the other threads around who should take what.  Vote for which one you think is most important to a team.

As a secondary issue, you could rank them completely in order of importance IE

1: CB

2: OT

3: DE

4: QB

5: DT

etc etc

Exclude salary cap considerations from your decision making for now.

Obviously I understand football is a team game, and several pieces need to function together as a unit, but for your $$, what position do you think is the most important?
Gotta go O-Line...and Tackle is the position to start with. If you can get a Walter Jones manning the left side of your O-Line, I'd say you are in pretty darn good shape to start your team.As a side note, is that guy in your avatar related to Merton Hanks? The neck on that guy... :D
If we get to count whole units of position I might change my vote too (might). Is that what we're doing?
 

On The Rocks

Evil Conservative
i am shocked that the Center position isn't getting any love.

the Center is the anchor. he is the smartest guy on the field. and must be a leader.

 

Maurile Tremblay

Administrator
Staff member
"Six NFL teams averaged better than 25 points per game last season. Five of them featured starting left tackles drafted among the first 19 overall choices, including three in the top 10." -- Link.

 
QB

LT

CB

CB

DT
This is the direction I'm heading in, but without QB at the top. I used to feel d-line was more important than secondary, but now I feel the opposite. Linebackers still rank last in my grading of unit importance on the defense.
 

thayman

Footballguy
It has to be QB....no other position sees the ball more, yes it is a team sport, but no other player is in such a position to win, or lose the game.

 

Maurile Tremblay

Administrator
Staff member
QB

LT

CB

CB

DT
This is the direction I'm heading in, but without QB at the top. I used to feel d-line was more important than secondary, but now I feel the opposite. Linebackers still rank last in my grading of unit importance on the defense.
Every scheme is different, but I generally agree with you about linebackers. In passing situations, one or two linebackers are pulled for additional DBs; in running situations, one or two linebackers are pulled for additional DLs. So linebackers as a group often don't have a big enough role in the defense to warrant being the highest paid guys on D. (Though there are exceptions.)I think QB wins because the whole offense goes through him. Passing, obviously, but he also sets up the run with the threat to pass.

It's telling that people point to individual examples of Super Bowl teams that didn't have great QBs (Trent Dilfer being the most recent), but nobody points to individual examples of Super Bowl teams that didn't have a great left OG, or strong safety, or tight end, etc. Because those things aren't anomalous; they're not worth pointing out. A great team with a below-average QB, however, is anomalous.

After QB, I think left tackle is most important. He protects the QB's blind side, and a good LT makes a huge difference in the overall gameplan for the offense. If the LT can lock up with the opposing team's best pass-rusher one on one, that leaves the RB or TE free to release into the pattern and creates matchup problems for the defense. If the LT needs constant help from another blocker, the offense is at a disadvantage with respect to the defense over the rest of the field.

Same sort of reasoning explains the importance of CBs. The two most important jobs the defense has are (1) stopping the pass, and (2) stopping the run. It's obvious how having top-notch CBs can help stop the pass, so I won't comment further on that. But having two corners who can play man-to-man without help is also the key to having a great run-stuffing defense, as well as generating a good pass-rush.

If you have two CBs who can hold their own in man coverage (think Mike Haynes and Lester Hayes on the old Raider teams), that gives the defense tremendous flexibility on how they can use the other nine players. They can put extra people in the box to stop the run, or blitz extra people to generate a pass rush. Even if they are outmanned, talentwise, in the front seven, an extra body up there more than makes up for it.

So aside from QB, I'd list LT, CB, and CB in that order as being the most important positions.

 
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Maurile Tremblay

Administrator
Staff member
i am shocked that the Center position isn't getting any love.

the Center is the anchor. he is the smartest guy on the field. and must be a leader.
I think the value of a knowledgeable, experienced center who understands the game is huge in highschool football, but becomes less of an advantage by the time you get to the NFL simply because, in the NFL, every center is knowledgeable enough to make the correct line calls pretty much all the time. Having a guy with power and quickness at the center position is helpful, but I'd much rather have an outstanding tackle with a decent center than vice versa.
 
Same sort of reasoning explains the importance of CBs. The two most important jobs the defense has are (1) stopping the pass, and (2) stopping the run. It's obvious how having top-notch CBs can help stop the pass, so I won't comment further on that. But having two corners who can play man-to-man without help is also the key to having a great run-stuffing defense, as well as generating a good pass-rush.

If you have two CBs who can hold their own in man coverage (think Mike Haynes and Lester Hayes on the old Raider teams), that gives the defense tremendous flexibility on how they can use the other nine players. They can put extra people in the box to stop the run, or blitz extra people to generate a pass rush. Even if they are outmanned, talentwise, in the front seven, an extra body up there more than makes up for it.
The bolded is basically why I've started to feel that the secondary >> the d-line.Looking at teams who were one-sided with defensive personnel, I've found that teams with good CBs and poor d-line overall tended to have better defenses than teams who were one-sides the other way.

Teams like Pittsburgh and San Diego who were emphasising the front seven (or just had a good front seven but bad back four) would continually get torched against the better teams and never had what I felt was a "good" defense despite their shortcomings.

Teams like Washington (recently) and Philadelphia, who had/have poorer d-lines but good secondaries seem to do better overall as a defense, even if they have to generate a pass rush with smoke and mirrors.

 

brewer

Footballguy
Teams like Pittsburgh and San Diego who were emphasising the front seven (or just had a good front seven but bad back four) would continually get torched against the better te
Not sure your point here, but Pittsburgh finished the last 4 years in the top ten in yards per game given up.2005 - 4th, 283.5 ypg

2004 - 1st, 258.4 ypg

2003 - 9th, 298.9 ypg

2002 - 7th, 302.2 ypg

I'll take a strong defensive line with a mediocre secondary any day over the opposite.

 

Aaronur

Footballguy
If we are talking about one person then you have to say QB because of the amount of time he has his hands on the ball. I don't think any other one player has the ablility to change the game as much, like a pitcher in baseball. If you want to talk about a unit I would say it is a Tie between O and D lines. Each one of those units can totally control a game but I don't believe one player on each on of those units can do it alone.

QB

DT

OT

DE

LB

OG/C

RB

S

CB

WR

TE

 

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