degenerate
Footballguy
Just wanted to get the SP's opinion on this subject as it often causes controversy this time of year. Thanks.
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Which tie breaker is better, H2H or total points? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter degenerate
- Start date
Jack White
Footballguy
If it's a head-to-head league, H2H should be the first tie-breaker.
That's just common sense.
That's just common sense.
chad in Indy
Footballguy
How can you say H2H makes no sense for fantasy football? If that is your stance, then why would you not just tally the points at the end of the year for everyone's ranking? H2H is what makes it a weekly game.
Go DC Yourself
Footballguy
If teams have only played once, total points, because the matchup could have been effected by byes. If they've played twice and one team swept, head to head.
spider321
Footballguy
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chad in Indy
Footballguy
On the topic, our league is switching our playoff format next year. Currently 6 get in with top 2 having a bye. However, there is always one low season points team that makes it in over a stud team just b/c of the dumb luck of the H2H schedule.
To fix this, we are reserving the 6th spot to be given to best record (not already in the top 5) as if it was an all-play league. This saves a team who always puts up a lot of points, but happens to play the top scoring team several weeks.
To fix this, we are reserving the 6th spot to be given to best record (not already in the top 5) as if it was an all-play league. This saves a team who always puts up a lot of points, but happens to play the top scoring team several weeks.
spider321
Footballguy
chad in Indy
Footballguy
Isn't this the same thing as saying "highest total points not already in the playoffs"?
skinsrule05
Footballguy
It doesn't but Spider saw he was losing the vote in a landslide and is getting salty.
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chad in Indy
Footballguy
Go DC Yourself
Footballguy
Not necessarily. All play records tend to reward consistency, whereas a few good weeks could make a total points champ among the remaining teams.
spider321
Footballguy
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
why not have the best of both worlds. H2H to have fun and competition during the season. Last playoff spot should be filled with the highest scoring team left out regardless of record. You build a team to score the most points. You can't control what the other team scores.
that's how we've been doing it the last few years. everyone is on board.
have a great rest of your Wednesday.
that's how we've been doing it the last few years. everyone is on board.
have a great rest of your Wednesday.
Nemesis
Footballguy
From a commissioner's point of view, I like to use:
Overall Record, then Total Pts Scored as it is the EASIEST method to explain and implement within the league.
IMO, using H2H has problems:
Just not going to argue with people.
Overall Record, then Total Pts Scored as it is the EASIEST method to explain and implement within the league.
IMO, using H2H has problems:
- What if you have 2 teams in the H2H tie breaker? What if you have 3 or more?
- What if some of the teams have played each other less than others in the TB?
- What if some of the teams have a tie?
- How do you apply the TB rules if you have 4 teams and then break a tie and now have 3 teams?....Do you start the TB process from the top with 3 or keep going?
Just not going to argue with people.
cstu
Footballguy
Allotting the 6th spot to the team with the highest points of the remaining teams should be a rule in all leagues IMO. Keeps things interesting up until the end and helps fix one of the problems with HTH.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
Total points is a better indicator of the stronger team, but H2H is more fun.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
If your goal is to reward the best remaining team, then it should be based on highest total points, not best record. Because you know you're going to have a scenario where a crappy 8 win team makes the playoffs over a team with 6 wins but twice as many total points.
The General
Footballguy
In fantasy sports it should always be points scored.
My main league uses real NFL tiebreakers. Stuff like division record has broken ties before. So dumb.
My main league uses real NFL tiebreakers. Stuff like division record has broken ties before. So dumb.
So in your league whoever has most total points for the season at the end of week 16 is winner?
The General
Footballguy
No H to H, use tiebreakers to determine the playoff spots.
The commish uses the NFL rules. If 2 teams are say 7-6 for the last spot is decided by a bunch of stuff that makes sense if you are actually playing a real game instead of picking players to score fantasy points.
TartanLion
Footballguy
Totally with the H2H format across season but total points for the tiebreaker or 6th spot.
It's like the first past the post v proportional representation debate for UK government. They each have their pros me cons and a potential hybrid may be the best solution.
H2H for the weekly fun etc but does increase the importance of pure luck. Total points as a tiebreaker eradicates the con of luck at an opportune time and rewards the better constructed team. Total points for sixth spot keeps everyone playing to get in longer usually and is a good reward for a team that has done well but been unlucky in H2H.
Why not do this and try to create a blend of the best bits of both worlds ?
It's like the first past the post v proportional representation debate for UK government. They each have their pros me cons and a potential hybrid may be the best solution.
H2H for the weekly fun etc but does increase the importance of pure luck. Total points as a tiebreaker eradicates the con of luck at an opportune time and rewards the better constructed team. Total points for sixth spot keeps everyone playing to get in longer usually and is a good reward for a team that has done well but been unlucky in H2H.
Why not do this and try to create a blend of the best bits of both worlds ?
So why use h2h at all then? If a better team is the one with more season points why even bother with head to head?
I can buy in to that idea. In fact one of my leagues dies a similar thing where the two best weekly breakdown records get the last two playoff spots.
zoonation
Footballguy
zoonation
Footballguy
lmao.
Are you being deliberately obtuse?
Using H2H is more akin to giving someone a participation trophy (although the analogy itself is ridiculous).
"I know my team scored 150 more points than yours and is clearly better, but because you randomly beat me in week 5 you're in the playoffs!"
The General
Footballguy
Like many have said Head to Head is great for weekly wins and loses, over the course of the season the "luck" part tends to balance out. It is also great to have the single weekly opponent.
For tiebreakers though head to head match up has too many factors that are just luck - injuries that week, byes, you lost when scoring a ton of points.
Adam Harstad
Moderator
On a week-to-week basis, the head-to-head format adds drama and excitement.
For playoff tiebreakers, head-to-head *reduces* drama. If I know another team and I are jockeying for the final playoff spot, and we played each other back in week 2, there's no drama- I already know if we wind up tied who gets in. There's no suspense. There's no tension.
Total points, on the other hand, increases drama. If I'm down by 30 points with three weeks to go, I know that I not only need to keep winning, but I need to outscore the other guy. And unless there's a huge quality gap between the teams, things remain in question right up to the very end.
The head-to-head format has a lot of flaws, but we tolerate them because it's simply more fun. That's exactly why total points makes a better tiebreaker. It's more fun.
For playoff tiebreakers, head-to-head *reduces* drama. If I know another team and I are jockeying for the final playoff spot, and we played each other back in week 2, there's no drama- I already know if we wind up tied who gets in. There's no suspense. There's no tension.
Total points, on the other hand, increases drama. If I'm down by 30 points with three weeks to go, I know that I not only need to keep winning, but I need to outscore the other guy. And unless there's a huge quality gap between the teams, things remain in question right up to the very end.
The head-to-head format has a lot of flaws, but we tolerate them because it's simply more fun. That's exactly why total points makes a better tiebreaker. It's more fun.
chad in Indy
Footballguy
and such is life. You think Brady doesn't look at Eli ever time thinking, "how the hell did I lose an undefeated season to them?" H2H keeps the element of "any given Sunday". Guess it depends on the league, whether it's high stakes, etc.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Total points, of course. The team that scores more points is better, therefore it should be the first tiebreaker.
Franknbeans
Footballguy
Total points. The rest is poppycock
Steeler
Footballguy
Total points is better than head-to-head for tie breakers in fantasy football, but maybe the best option for tie breakers is the all-play record. The all play record determines your over all record if you played every team every week so this is the most effective way to determine the best team in the league. The all play record measures your ability to score a lot of points consistently over the course of the season relative to all the other teams.
But back to the question at hand: head to head is a perfect tie breaker for real football but it fails in one key area for fantasy football. In real football, teams are playing both offense and defense against their opponents so they have a direct impact on the number of points they score as well as the number of points they give up. This isn't the case in FF. You have zero control over your opponents score, with zero ability to limit their scoring production - which means the head to head record is completely meaningless as a tie breaker. The team that won the head to head match already has an advantage over the team they beat by earning the win! And since the losing team has no control over the opponents score, the head to head tie breaker shouldn't be used.
Total points (or all-play record) are far better tie breakers since they are more aligned with your own ability to score a lot of points consistently over the course of the season.
But back to the question at hand: head to head is a perfect tie breaker for real football but it fails in one key area for fantasy football. In real football, teams are playing both offense and defense against their opponents so they have a direct impact on the number of points they score as well as the number of points they give up. This isn't the case in FF. You have zero control over your opponents score, with zero ability to limit their scoring production - which means the head to head record is completely meaningless as a tie breaker. The team that won the head to head match already has an advantage over the team they beat by earning the win! And since the losing team has no control over the opponents score, the head to head tie breaker shouldn't be used.
Total points (or all-play record) are far better tie breakers since they are more aligned with your own ability to score a lot of points consistently over the course of the season.
grateful zed
Footballguy
h2h
bostonfred
Footballguy
Because beating your division rival is much more important when it counts towards tie breakers. It encourages trading to cover bye weeks for important match ups, expecially if division winners get a first round playoff bye. It also gives people reason to talk more in friends leagues.zoonation said:
BigJim®
Footballguy
abe froman
Footballguy
in my league after the 4 division winners the last 2 spots go to -next best overall record, and total points leader. Had it for years. This year a team in 11th place but has scored 4th highest points. (#1 in points against), is looking like they will land that 6th spot with a 4-8 record. they're up over 60 points on the next team. Top 2 teams get a bye. 3 seed plays total points leader, 4v5..
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