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Its with a line that I have said has struggled in pass blocking and prior to this year has sucked.Some of it is Favre helping it out...some of it is McKinney, and the rest of them really, seem to be playing better than ever.
Yeah, I have been going on about it, and as mozzy indicated, I think Packer fans weren't expecting more than they should have when they figured the new scheme might help the Packers put Favre on his back. Even Nick Barnett wanted real bad to hit Favre, but at the end of the game, against a line you've been very critical of for it's weaker than average pass protection, they got NOTHING. Favre had all day both games, and because there was no pressure there were no turnovers (Sullivan's snap notwithstanding) and 7 TDs for Favre. So pardon me for pointing out the obvious.
I would think TT doesn't feel stupid at all. He probably feels he has a solid QB for the next decade and that he made the right move. Rodgers is the best offensive player on the team. Rodgers would be gone had TT accomodated Favre....and they'd still be an average team.How is Rodgers winning the poll? Favre has beat the Packers twice in convincing fashion. What is Rodgers Win Loss record as a starter? Is winning not the object of the game at it's most basic level? Come on now, Ted Thompson must be voting multiple times here to save face, speaking of Ted Thompson, I wonder how stupid he's feeling today, probably more than usual if that's possible.
They could have traded him for a LT. Hell, they could have tried to trade Favre for a left tackle, I guess.I would think TT doesn't feel stupid at all. He probably feels he has a solid QB for the next decade and that he made the right move. Rodgers is the best offensive player on the team. Rodgers would be gone had TT accomodated Favre....and they'd still be an average team.How is Rodgers winning the poll? Favre has beat the Packers twice in convincing fashion. What is Rodgers Win Loss record as a starter? Is winning not the object of the game at it's most basic level? Come on now, Ted Thompson must be voting multiple times here to save face, speaking of Ted Thompson, I wonder how stupid he's feeling today, probably more than usual if that's possible.
I would say the people arguing for Favre as the better QB ar the ones concerned with FF, not real life. They're the ones arguing the team's W-L record is 'nuff said kind of evidence that Favre is the better QB. And those arguing for Rodgers talk about the differences in other aspects of the team that may - just may - factor into a team's W-L record.You would think playing FF would help you appreciate how much better Favre's supporting cast is, since his RB is something like the universally accepted #1 dynasty player, and there have been countless discussions about how bad Ryan Grant is and when he will be replaced. That example alone should remind you that Favre and Rodgers aren't out there each playing with all perfectly equal plastic models that they control before each play by turning the dial underneath the figure with their sheer will to win.Frankly, the fact that there are even 30% for Favre just reminds me that the shark pool is after all a self-proclaimed shark pool.
Don't get me wrong. I'd rather have Rodgers than Edwards, but I don't think he's much more than average.You're kidding, right?They could have traded him for a LT. Hell, they could have tried to trade Favre for a left tackle, I guess.I would think TT doesn't feel stupid at all. He probably feels he has a solid QB for the next decade and that he made the right move. Rodgers is the best offensive player on the team. Rodgers would be gone had TT accomodated Favre....and they'd still be an average team.How is Rodgers winning the poll? Favre has beat the Packers twice in convincing fashion. What is Rodgers Win Loss record as a starter? Is winning not the object of the game at it's most basic level? Come on now, Ted Thompson must be voting multiple times here to save face, speaking of Ted Thompson, I wonder how stupid he's feeling today, probably more than usual if that's possible.
I think Rodgers throws one of the best balls in the league and has been better than his draft position and will be a better than average QB for the next 10 seasons. That said, I still take Favre every day of the week and twice on Sundays if I ran a team.
The problem is that TT hasn't done enough to surround Rodgers with talent. Rodgers may be in Green Bay for the next decade but if the Packers don't make the playoffs this season TT may not be with the team next year.I would think TT doesn't feel stupid at all. He probably feels he has a solid QB for the next decade and that he made the right move. Rodgers is the best offensive player on the team. Rodgers would be gone had TT accomodated Favre....and they'd still be an average team.How is Rodgers winning the poll? Favre has beat the Packers twice in convincing fashion. What is Rodgers Win Loss record as a starter? Is winning not the object of the game at it's most basic level? Come on now, Ted Thompson must be voting multiple times here to save face, speaking of Ted Thompson, I wonder how stupid he's feeling today, probably more than usual if that's possible.
Not at all. It's clear that the move to get rid of Favre was just to placate Rodgers, and not at all about moving forward with the franchise. They didn't at all attempt to fill holes with the talent on their roster. If you need an example of a team that is excellant at making good trades with their players, look at New England. Clearly Favre had more value than they received back for him, but the Packers didn't care about getting anything for Favre, they just wanted to be rid of him. And now their D is weak and their O line is in shambles. Who's fault is that?You're kidding, right?They could have traded him for a LT. Hell, they could have tried to trade Favre for a left tackle, I guess.I would think TT doesn't feel stupid at all. He probably feels he has a solid QB for the next decade and that he made the right move. Rodgers is the best offensive player on the team. Rodgers would be gone had TT accomodated Favre....and they'd still be an average team.How is Rodgers winning the poll? Favre has beat the Packers twice in convincing fashion. What is Rodgers Win Loss record as a starter? Is winning not the object of the game at it's most basic level? Come on now, Ted Thompson must be voting multiple times here to save face, speaking of Ted Thompson, I wonder how stupid he's feeling today, probably more than usual if that's possible.
He is not much more than average?Wow..just wow.I can't understand this one.Not the best...but the guy is easily top 10 and close to top 5 in the league with his play right now.That with getting hit constantly.Throws a great ball, is mobile, plenty of arm strength and is pretty darn smart.
exactly, they were more worried about him playing for minnesota than improving there OWN team. Anyone who doesnt think chilly would have given up a first round pick or maybe more is kidding themselves.Not at all. It's clear that the move to get rid of Favre was just to placate Rodgers, and not at all about moving forward with the franchise. They didn't at all attempt to fill holes with the talent on their roster. If you need an example of a team that is excellant at making good trades with their players, look at New England. Clearly Favre had more value than they received back for him, but the Packers didn't care about getting anything for Favre, they just wanted to be rid of him. And now their D is weak and their O line is in shambles. Who's fault is that?You're kidding, right?They could have traded him for a LT. Hell, they could have tried to trade Favre for a left tackle, I guess.I would think TT doesn't feel stupid at all. He probably feels he has a solid QB for the next decade and that he made the right move. Rodgers is the best offensive player on the team. Rodgers would be gone had TT accomodated Favre....and they'd still be an average team.How is Rodgers winning the poll? Favre has beat the Packers twice in convincing fashion. What is Rodgers Win Loss record as a starter? Is winning not the object of the game at it's most basic level? Come on now, Ted Thompson must be voting multiple times here to save face, speaking of Ted Thompson, I wonder how stupid he's feeling today, probably more than usual if that's possible.
That said, we know the Packers would never have traded him to Minnesota barring a Herschel Walker deal, but that doesn't mean that they couldn't have looked elsewhere for more. Instead they insisted on shipping him to NYJ, who knew they had to move him and got him on the cheap. If they had shopped him around more, and opened it up to NFC teams (like Carolina) they might have ended up with Jordan Gross.
It was all about moving forward. He had a choice between a 39 yr old QB who had retired once, and talked about retirement for 5 years and a guy they thought (correctly) was ready to be a damn good NFL starter. Choosing Favre would have set the franchise back years in the long run.Now not many people are willing to give up much for a 39 yr old QB who has a couple years left. It doesn't matter how good Favre was or wasn't, nobody is going to give away the farm for a couple years of productivity. The Packers burned the Jets on that deal. A 3rd that was almost a 2nd round pick...for what? A decent record for one year? They didn't just give him away, they took other offers. Jon Gruden is on record as saying he went to sleep the night before he was dealt to NY thinking Favre was going to be a Buccaneer.And Minnesota? Be realistic, how many trades have we ever seen take place within a division, it just doesn't happen. Especially adding in the fact it was pretty much accepted the Vikes were a decent QB away from being a SB contender. You can compare Favre to Rodgers all day long. My opinion is Rodgers is better. But even if you think Favre is better, the Packers still made the right move keeping Rodgers. GM's have to think about more than just this year.Not at all. It's clear that the move to get rid of Favre was just to placate Rodgers, and not at all about moving forward with the franchise. They didn't at all attempt to fill holes with the talent on their roster. If you need an example of a team that is excellant at making good trades with their players, look at New England. Clearly Favre had more value than they received back for him, but the Packers didn't care about getting anything for Favre, they just wanted to be rid of him. And now their D is weak and their O line is in shambles. Who's fault is that?You're kidding, right?They could have traded him for a LT. Hell, they could have tried to trade Favre for a left tackle, I guess.I would think TT doesn't feel stupid at all. He probably feels he has a solid QB for the next decade and that he made the right move. Rodgers is the best offensive player on the team. Rodgers would be gone had TT accomodated Favre....and they'd still be an average team.How is Rodgers winning the poll? Favre has beat the Packers twice in convincing fashion. What is Rodgers Win Loss record as a starter? Is winning not the object of the game at it's most basic level? Come on now, Ted Thompson must be voting multiple times here to save face, speaking of Ted Thompson, I wonder how stupid he's feeling today, probably more than usual if that's possible.
No offense but do you really think Carolina would part with a stud left tackle for a one or two year QB? Teams don't trade left tackles unless they are basically done or worn out their welcome.
You are overvaluing what you think they might have been able to get for Favre.And what big trades (outside of Seymour) recently have NE made getting things in return for players they let go.Trading a guy for an LT sounds great..but going into last year was LT an issue? Nope...So they should trade the franchise QB in Rodgers or the older one in FAvre....to replace Clifton, who going into last year was just fine?You seriously think they would trade Gross for a 40 year old QB?Face it...other teams were not offering things up...and Chilly would not give up a 1st for Cutler who could help him for years...why do you think he would have given up a 1st for a QB who might only play for one year.
Maybe they wouldn't have traded Favre straight up for him, but him and a first? I think that's a possibility.Consider further, they could have attempted to trade Rodgers, as well, if age was the deciding factor. But they turned their back on the 13-3 season and placed all the blame on Favre and obviously did nothing to correct the issues to take the team back to the NFC Championship. It was short sighted, just like their attempt to bribe him back into retirement. Clearly the Packers were not thinking from a productive standpoint. You're also wayyy overvaluing Clifton. He was good for holding, and that was it.
Its an example, and a very poor one...how often do you ever see teams trading away a stud LT to another team.And again...this was 2 years ago...Clifton was still playing pretty well.
Nope.Not necessarily. I think McCarthy is...not sure about TT.
do you honestly believe that? The team he put together got completely owned by the guy he booted out of town after going to the NFC championship game. And I mean completely owned, he was pretty much flawless the two games they played. If they go 8-8 or worse fans will be calling for his head more than they already are.Just wins?Well, I guess Vince Young is better than Aaron Rodgers...since he is something like 19-11 or 19-12 now.How is Rodgers winning the poll? Favre has beat the Packers twice in convincing fashion. What is Rodgers Win Loss record as a starter? Is winning not the object of the game at it's most basic level? Come on now, Ted Thompson must be voting multiple times here to save face, speaking of Ted Thompson, I wonder how stupid he's feeling today, probably more than usual if that's possible.
Rodgers is winning because the poll started a while ago.
Record is part of it...but people actually take all aspects of the game into consideration when they voted.
Right now, Favre is playing better and on a better team. But Rodgers is playing pretty darn well too (and has the #1 QB rating right now).
Thompson probably is not feeling all that stupid...the QB he chose played pretty well.
the sentiment in last night's game thread speaks volumes. People started turning on him real quick.I just dont see how he could survive.
But Thompson hired McCarthy. McCarthy's failure is his failure.I don't know the answer to this question, but I'm curious if it is common that one GM gets to fire and hire two head coaches. (Other than in truly dysfunctional front offices like Washington...)
To be fair, this particular thread asked who the better QB is right now. Which is why I'm surprised it's 70%/30% in favor of Rodgers. I wholeheartedly agree with you that Rodgers looks like a potential franchise QB that the team can win, and win big, with. And given his age I would rather have him to build around than Favre. But in terms of which of the two I would want, all else being equal, to quarterback my team today? It's Favre IMHO.
It's why I feel so bad for the real Packer fans.Thompson created all their problems and Packer fans have no other avenue but to suffer until TT is gone.Favre made GB a winner and TT treated him horribly. Ultimately things got so bad that TT made the ultimate stupid decision to trade Favre, all the while trying to smear his legacy in the entire process. It's painful to talk to true Packer fans about how they are happy things are going so well for Favre in Minnesota and poorly in GB. However, the people who truly care about the team want the best for it, and they know the best thing for the team is getting rid of Thompson. It's a sad dynamic, but it is the reality of the situation.
Actually, to be fair, this particular thread was posted on September 28, just 3 weeks into the season. At that point, Rodgers had better numbers and had played a tougher schedule, and Favre wasn't even averaging 180 passing yards per game. Since then, the Vikings have beaten Green Bay twice and Favre led the comeback against Baltimore and played pretty well in the close loss at Pittsburgh.That's kind of a problem with RIGHT NOW polls... the thread stays around, so not everyone votes based on the same RIGHT NOW.
True Packer fans? That's funny stuff. True Packer fans saw a guy that thought he was bigger than the team. A guy who held them hostage for 5 years with all his retirement crap. It is not a GM's responsibility to baby a 39 yr old man. He made a grown up decision all by himself to retire. Favre changed his mind but the organization had already moved on with their young QB, which ultimately was the right decision and almost nobody will disagree with that. I'm not so sure about "smearing" his legacy. The only hit his legacy took was being a bit of a drama queen with the retirement talk every year, and the subsequent two falso retirements, and ultimately asking for his release from the Jets so he could get his revenge from the Packers. If that tarnishes his legacy, then so be it. But he did that all by himself. It's funny because all we ever hear is people whine about primadonna athletes, yet Favre gets a pass from so many people because he's Favre and he's "earned" it. In my opinion an athlete never earns the right to act like he is bigger than the team.Maybe TT could have handled the situation better, both sides could have. But to say it was a stupid decision to trade Favre is just talking with Favre-loving goggles on. It was the right decision. People's emotions cloud their ability to see that. From a business standpoint, and what was best for the Green Bay Packers....Ted Thompson made the correct decision. I'm not happy with alot of other things TT did. I think his reputation as a draft guru is overrated, I think his failure to address key areas of need year in and year out are costing this team, and his failure to secure a replacement left tackle might get Rodgers killed...but one decision he didn't screw up was sticking with Rodgers when Brett thought he could just walk his way back onto the field and start for the Green Bay Packers after he already told them he was done.H.K. said:Just Win Baby said:It's why I feel so bad for the real Packer fans.Thompson created all their problems and Packer fans have no other avenue but to suffer until TT is gone.Favre made GB a winner and TT treated him horribly. Ultimately things got so bad that TT made the ultimate stupid decision to trade Favre, all the while trying to smear his legacy in the entire process. It's painful to talk to true Packer fans about how they are happy things are going so well for Favre in Minnesota and poorly in GB. However, the people who truly care about the team want the best for it, and they know the best thing for the team is getting rid of Thompson. It's a sad dynamic, but it is the reality of the situation.
Correct. That person is Ted Thompson.
Awe, you have a whole lot of love for Brett, huh? That's cute
Incorrect. Thompson's failures reach far greater than how he mishandled Favre.
I'll agree he's failed in other areas... specifically finding replacements for both Clifton and Tauscher, making the mistake replacing Jon Ryan with Derrick Frost and now Kapinos, not giving Mason Crosby any competition in camp, finding a decent running back...etc.He's done some good things too, and the most important decision he made was the correct one. Keeping Rodgers over Favre. It's too difficult to find Quarterbacks today. Rodgers will continue to be a good/maybe great quarterback for another decade. So many teams struggle to replace legends, and their teams suffer for years because of it. Green Bay should eventually be able to plug the holes they currently have, whether it be TT or another GM to do it. But it could take another decade or more for a quarterback like Aaron Rodgers to fall in their lap like he did on draft day. They were confident in his ability and stuck byhim, and they were right
It is as evident as Pete Prisco's hate for the man that Favre is the better QB right now. He would have done better than Rodgers last season in Green Bay and he would have taken at least 1 of these two games this year. It is nice to see that someone watches and gets it!Jason Wood said:
H.K. said:Just Win Baby said:It's why I feel so bad for the real Packer fans.Thompson created all their problems and Packer fans have no other avenue but to suffer until TT is gone.Favre made GB a winner and TT treated him horribly. Ultimately things got so bad that TT made the ultimate stupid decision to trade Favre, all the while trying to smear his legacy in the entire process. It's painful to talk to true Packer fans about how they are happy things are going so well for Favre in Minnesota and poorly in GB. However, the people who truly care about the team want the best for it, and they know the best thing for the team is getting rid of Thompson. It's a sad dynamic, but it is the reality of the situation.
This guy gets it.
Yup. That was veryH.K. said:Just Win Baby said:It's why I feel so bad for the real Packer fans.Thompson created all their problems and Packer fans have no other avenue but to suffer until TT is gone.Favre made GB a winner and TT treated him horribly. Ultimately things got so bad that TT made the ultimate stupid decision to trade Favre, all the while trying to smear his legacy in the entire process. It's painful to talk to true Packer fans about how they are happy things are going so well for Favre in Minnesota and poorly in GB. However, the people who truly care about the team want the best for it, and they know the best thing for the team is getting rid of Thompson. It's a sad dynamic, but it is the reality of the situation.
I've never been a big Thompson fan but it's really depressing watching him turn a team that just two seasons ago was, with Favre, on the verge of getting back to the Super Bowl and is now a slightly better than average team at best. Meanwhile, Favre goes to two teams and both of them get a lot better with him. It's tough to watch all that because it simply never should have happened in my opinion.
What's that you say? He's holding on to the ball too long and the Packer WR Corp is not as good as advertised? Sounds about right.
Holding onto the ball too long accounts for some of it to be sure but GB's offensive line is among the worst in the league.Favre is amazing, no doubt. He is so amazing that we are comparing him to a 25 year old. But I think switching one for the other would not change the record of either team.
Rodgers is significantly better in every passing statistic than Hasselbeck, and he's a better runner, too. Hasselbeck has 4 winning seasons in 8 years as a starter, and didn't have one until his third year starting (fifth in the league).
Because McCarthy isn't anywhere near the head coach or offensive mind that Holmgren was/is.
What Minnesota fans are experiencing now is the good Brett Favre. The same one that led the 2007 Packers to the NFC title game. The same one that led the 2008 Jets to a 8-3 record. This Brett Favre is admittedly playing better than Aaron Rodgers right now. Its not that he has a better arm, or anything really physical over Rodgers. He just has a ton of experience. He's seen it all, and knows how to deal with every blitz. Add in a solid o line and ADP, and its a great situation for Favre.
What I am 100% confident in saying is that they will get the opportunity to experience the bad Brett Favre too. The same one that threw away the Divisional playoff game in 2003 to the Eagles. The same one that threw away the NFC title game to the Giants, and the same one that led the Jets astray down the stretch last year.
I respect the man's ability to play the game. He can be brilliant. This downward spiral has happened in each of the last 5 years however. Favre is now 40, and prepared less for this season than any of the others. Not seeing this coming is just being blind to what's in front of you.
In the first 11 games of the 2004 through 2008 seasons (55 games total), Favre completed 64.8 percent of his passes with 97 touchdown throws, 61 interceptions and an 89.1 passer rating. In the last five games of those seasons plus three playoff contests (28 total), he completed only 57.9 percent of his passes with 27 touchdowns, 46 interceptions and a meager passer rating of 66.3.
Enjoy it while you can.
Add the epic '02 Falcons fail to the list. Message boards and short-term memories go hand in hand. Everyone saying "I told you so" after a few games were probably talking about what a great acquisition Beldsoe was for Dallas after he ripped apart the Eagles before reverting back to his usual form.
that is very riveting, we have never heard any packer fan say such a thing over the last month.
What I am 100% confident in saying is that they will get the opportunity to experience the bad Brett Favre too. The same one that threw away the Divisional playoff game in 2003 to the Eagles. The same one that threw away the NFC title game to the Giants, and the same one that led the Jets astray down the stretch last year.
I respect the man's ability to play the game. He can be brilliant. This downward spiral has happened in each of the last 5 years however. Favre is now 40, and prepared less for this season than any of the others. Not seeing this coming is just being blind to what's in front of you.
In the first 11 games of the 2004 through 2008 seasons (55 games total), Favre completed 64.8 percent of his passes with 97 touchdown throws, 61 interceptions and an 89.1 passer rating. In the last five games of those seasons plus three playoff contests (28 total), he completed only 57.9 percent of his passes with 27 touchdowns, 46 interceptions and a meager passer rating of 66.3.
Enjoy it while you can.
Its all packer fans have at this pointInstead of the quick slant, they run the WR stand at line of scrimmage and the DB closes while the boall gets there.With quick slants, the DB has to take an angle that is tangent and the WR has foward momentum. Both get ball out of QB hands more quickly.With screen, QB has to hold the ball longer but KNOWS where the pressure is coming from as the DE is released to overcommit.Wish we could see more of it...
Completely owned? I guess.They had the ball with about 8 minutes left just down 5 after a very poor start to the game.do you honestly believe that? The team he put together got completely owned by the guy he booted out of town after going to the NFC championship game. And I mean completely owned, he was pretty much flawless the two games they played. If they go 8-8 or worse fans will be calling for his head more than they already are.Just wins?Well, I guess Vince Young is better than Aaron Rodgers...since he is something like 19-11 or 19-12 now.How is Rodgers winning the poll? Favre has beat the Packers twice in convincing fashion. What is Rodgers Win Loss record as a starter? Is winning not the object of the game at it's most basic level? Come on now, Ted Thompson must be voting multiple times here to save face, speaking of Ted Thompson, I wonder how stupid he's feeling today, probably more than usual if that's possible.
Rodgers is winning because the poll started a while ago.
Record is part of it...but people actually take all aspects of the game into consideration when they voted.
Right now, Favre is playing better and on a better team. But Rodgers is playing pretty darn well too (and has the #1 QB rating right now).
Thompson probably is not feeling all that stupid...the QB he chose played pretty well.
