Csonka4life
Footballguy
You have to think White is a lock, Aikman will probably make it(eventhough I wouldn't vote for him), Thurman has a decent shot. To me the others are up in the air........
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Who will make the hall on Saturday? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Csonka4life
- Start date
CanadianNFLJunkie
Footballguy
White, Aikman (and I wouldn't vote for him either) and maybe someone like Grimm will get in, that's it. No way would/should Thomas and Irvin get in this year. Frankly Irvin never should get in.
diesel7982
Footballguy
Can we have a complete list of candidates?Im still rooting for Art Monk.
SoloMatisse
Footballguy
White and Aikman are locks. Grimm....not yet, imo. Irvin will probably get in, though the thought of it makes my stomach turn. Theyre still looking for Thurman's helmet, so until they find it, I dont think he's getting in. He was a great player, but an early HOFer??? Not yet. Give him a few more years. I think Harry Carson might get the call this year.....friggin' writers.....what they hell do they know about what it takes to be a HOFer?????! Jim Marshall not in the HALL?????? A joke. Let all the former players and coaches vote already. Screw the friggin writers.
Csonka4life
Footballguy
I know Alex Karras isn't on the list but he could get in if the veterans commitee voted similar to baseball. If Marshall isn't in though then Karras should wait. Marshall is one of the big names that has to get in before he dies........
Jimmy James
Footballguy
I have no clue, but I seriously doubt Irvin or Monk get in unless they both get in. I think their voters are mostly on opposite sides of the camp, so neither will get in without a compromise.
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
Bcubed2355
Footballguy
Art Monk, Russ Grimm, Reggie White, and Warren Moon should be in without question.Tory Aikman, Thurman Thomas, Harry Carson deserve serious considerationMichael Irvin should even be a finalist.Peter king of SI in one person who should be removed from the Hall panel. He has no clue who would qualify for a Hall of Fame Canidate
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Bcubed2355
Footballguy
what qualification does Irvin have to make him a Hall canidate. Hell he ain't even the Best CowboyWR not in the Hall. That title would belong to Drew Pearson but but no WR should get into the Hall except Jerry Rice before Monk does
Deranged Hermit
Not cool & Pissed
I actually think White and Madden are the biggest locks. White for obvious reasons and Madden for both his coaching, his announcing and his other contributions to the NFL. Whether you like him or not EVERYONE knows who John Madden is and that means a lot.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
My guess:White, Aikman, Moon, Thomas, Wright, Madden
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dgreen
Footballguy
Seriously? I don't think he will make it in this year, but he's certainly a qualified candidate. Good numbers, good playoff performances, and, maybe most importantly, a guy people remember as being one of the top 3 WRs in the game for about an 8-year stretch. Sure, he's someone that benefited from being on a great team, but I wouldn't hold that against him. His off-the-field stuff, along with a really strong class, will probably keep him out another year, but he'll be in someday.
On The Rocks
Footballguy
i know that a lot of people have their favorite "i hate Thurman and here is why" story......but the guy was absolutely a Hall of Famer. I hope he gets in on a first ballot.
Mr. Mojo
Footballguy
I'm another one that doesn't think he should be in.I describe Aikman as "Trent Green with 3 rings". Aikman was a top QB when he had the powerhouse of a team around him but when the Cowboys were not a dynasty, his play was mediocre and he did almost nothing to raise the level of their team.For those who wouldn't vote Aikman inI just don't get it.
Trent Green is good enough to have won 3 rings on the Cowboy powerhouse of the 90s. There are plenty of other good, solid QBs who could have played just as well and been as successful also.
Tough As Nails
Glave Master
Couldn't you say this about a ton of QBs though? How many QBs would have won with those 49er teams? Doesn't mean Montana isn't deserving. How many QBs would have won with the Steelers teams? Doesn't mean Bradshaw isn't deserving. The bottom line is that there are lots of teams with tons of talent that DON'T win the Super Bowl. Aikman's accuracy and decision making were as good or better than anybody's. AND his team won 3 Super Bowls. HOF lock.I'm another one that doesn't think he should be in.I describe Aikman as "Trent Green with 3 rings". Aikman was a top QB when he had the powerhouse of a team around him but when the Cowboys were not a dynasty, his play was mediocre and he did almost nothing to raise the level of their team.For those who wouldn't vote Aikman in
Trent Green is good enough to have won 3 rings on the Cowboy powerhouse of the 90s. There are plenty of other good, solid QBs who could have played just as well and been as successful also.
Tough As Nails
Glave Master
Agreed. He's a hall of famer. Just not this year...the competition for the spots is way too stacked for him to get there this time around.
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
I just want to see Irvin on TV all day Sunday if he doesn't make it again.Aikman, White, Madden, Grimm, MONK
dgreen
Footballguy
This guy did a 4-part series on why he thinks Monk should be in the HOF. Some of it is good stuff, some of it doens't really debunk Monk's critics as much as he thinks it does. Anyways, the most interesting thing he did was to adjust receiving stats using 2005 as the base year. He took the top 20 players in receptions, receiving yards, and receiving TDs in each year and compared each year to 2005. So, if a top 20 receiver averaged 100 catches in 2005 and 80 catches in 1980, then receptions in 1980 would be multiplied by 1.25, giving an average 1980 WR the same 100 receptions as the average 2005 WR.
So, here are adjusted career numbers for some HOF receivers and includes Monk and Irvin:
REC YDS TDCharley Taylor 1106 12848 91Steve Largent 1182 16184 115Art Monk 1206 14624 75Lance Alworth 848 13064 83Fred Biletnikoff 1048 13079 92Michael Irvin 807 12617 68James Lofton 1037 16862 88Charlie Joiner 1134 15802 77John Stallworth 810 11280 81Lynn Swann 560 7690 62Paul Warfield 728 12072 96Here are per season averages using the same adjusted data:
The fourth part of the series, linked above, shows another interesting number. When adjusting to 2005 numbers, Monk's 1984 season, when he caugh 106 balls, ranks tied as the most receptions in a season at 134. Harold Carmichael's 1973 season is tied at 134. Part four also discusses playoff numbers and part three talks about career peaks.Anyways, I thought these adjusted numbers were interesting and, to me as someone who already supports Monk for the HOF, further the case for him as compared other HOF receivers.
So, here are adjusted career numbers for some HOF receivers and includes Monk and Irvin:
REC YDS TDCharley Taylor 1106 12848 91Steve Largent 1182 16184 115Art Monk 1206 14624 75Lance Alworth 848 13064 83Fred Biletnikoff 1048 13079 92Michael Irvin 807 12617 68James Lofton 1037 16862 88Charlie Joiner 1134 15802 77John Stallworth 810 11280 81Lynn Swann 560 7690 62Paul Warfield 728 12072 96Here are per season averages using the same adjusted data:
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REC YDS TDCharley Taylor 85 988 7Steve Largent 84 1156 8Art Monk 80 975 5Lance Alworth 77 1188 8Fred Biletnikoff 75 934 7Michael Irvin 67 1051 6James Lofton 65 1054 6Charlie Joiner 63 878 4John Stallworth 62 868 6Lynn Swann 62 854 7Paul Warfield 61 1006 8Noahs Troopers
Footballguy
I would vote for White, D. Thomas, Monk Wishy washy on T. Thomas and M. IrvinI would say no way to Aikman, but all those rings and being the QB I think he'll get in even though he will be the worst QB in the hall.
One thing I don't really care for is how some players just hang around on the ballot for years and then finally slide in during a weak year.IMO if they can't get in within their first 5 years of eligiblity then they should be removed from consideration.I can understand if a player faces some stiff competition his first couple of years eligible, i.e. several candidates of the same position or same team retire at the same time, and taking a few ballots to get in. But, these player that have been on the ballot for years, decades even and then suddenly getting in is ridiculous.If they weren't good enough to get the first few go arounds why are they suddenly more qualified now, 10, 20, 30 years after they retired?If I were the one calling the shots, if a player didn't make it in their first 5 years of eligibility they would be removed for consideration. 10 years later they can return to the ballot once more for one year only, after that forget about it. And the senior committee can continue to review players who played prior to 1960 (or whatever years they look at).Also, the minimum of 4 players rule is ridiculous as well, if there are not 4 qualified candidates then don't force someone in to meet a quota. 
But, Madden is only up as a coach, and I don't think he comes even close to deserving it as a coach. He does deserve to be in, for contributions to the game, but not as a coach.And, why all the Madden love? He's been eligible for 27 years. Why would people think this is the year? Again, for his involvement in the game, I think he should be in, before now in fact. But, as a coach alone? NO way. The career sample is too small. He was a solid coach, coaching for what was one of the best run franchises at the time. NO innovations to the game. Just a coach that was given one of the best talent pools in the era, and came away w/ only one ring. But one has to remember that if there is no phantom roughing the passer call against the Pats in the first round of the playoffs in 76-77, he has no ring.
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Aikman, White, Madden and either R. Wright or D. Thomas. #88 is not getting in anytime soon. Veterans had a hard time....HARD TIME...with L. Taylor becoming a member, given his well known problems off the field. L. Taylor changed how the game was played. It can be argued he is one of the best players of all time and or best defenders of all time. Thus, an exception was made. Irvin did not redefine the position of WR. There is no way he gets in tomorrow or anytime in the next several years.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Troy Aikman - Quarterback - 1989-2000 Dallas Cowboys: 3 Super Bowl rings and the leader of one of the greatest dynasties in NFL history. I agree that he wasn't a Marino or Montana...however someone had to lead that team. He gets in hands down.
Harry Carson - Linebacker - 1976-1988 New York Giants: I agree he deserves to get in, but this year there are too many obvious choices to have to think about this one.
L.C. Greenwood - Defensive End - 1969-1981 Pittsburgh Steelers: He can wait
Russ Grimm - Guard - 1981-1991 Washington Redskins: Outstanding guard but so was Kuechenberg.
Claude Humphrey - Defensive End - 1968-1978 Atlanta Falcons, 1979-1981 Philadelphia Eagles (injured reserve - 1975) : Never heard an annoncer in my life ever say..."He reminds me of the great Claude Humphrey"...he can wait.
Michael Irvin - Wide Receiver - 1988-1999 Dallas Cowboys: His college career almost spills over into his pro career...he will get in but they can't put him in the same year as Aikman. Aikman 1st...Irvin in a year or two. His off field antics have not helped.
Bob Kuechenberg - Guard - 1970-1984 Miami Dolphins (injured reserve - 1984): Really deserves tog et in...Played in 5 Super Bowls, winning 2 of them. He was a tremendous player...blocked for Csonka, Mercury morris, Bob Griese, Dan Marino...
John Madden - Coach - 1969-1978 Oakland Raiders: I've heard players say they would have won more Super Bowls with a different coach.
Art Monk - Wide Receiver - 1980-1993 Washington Redskins, 1994 New York Jets, 1995 Philadelphia Eagles: Before Aikman can we vote in the player that left the game with the most catches, yds, etc...what a WR, truly clutch...enough already.
Warren Moon - Quarterback - 1984-1993 Houston Oilers, 1994-1996 Minnesota Vikings, 1997-1998 Seattle Seahawks, 1999-2000 Kansas City Chiefs: See all those teams that he played for...thjere's a reason for that. he has got to wait a year or 2...sorry Mr Moon.
Derrick Thomas - Linebacker - 1989-1999 Kansas City Chiefs: Will get in, but let's put White in 1st than move to Thomas next season. If we put in all dead players it would cut down on the induction speeches and that's not good TV for ESPN.
Thurman Thomas - Running Back - 1988-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Miami Dolphins: Was the 1st of the Superbacks. He will get in but maybe not this season.
Reggie White - Defensive End/Defensive Tackle - 1985-1992 Philadelphia Eagles, 1993-1998 Green Bay Packers, 2000 Carolina Panthers: He's in.
Rayfield Wright - Tackle - 1967-1979 Dallas Cowboys: Ray Ray can wait.
Gary Zimmerman - Tackle - 1986-1992 Minnesota Vikings, 1993-1997 Denver Broncos: Was a dominant Tackle for his days. He'll have to wait though.
I highlighted 4 players...I left a cushion for a couple more.
Harry Carson - Linebacker - 1976-1988 New York Giants: I agree he deserves to get in, but this year there are too many obvious choices to have to think about this one.
L.C. Greenwood - Defensive End - 1969-1981 Pittsburgh Steelers: He can wait
Russ Grimm - Guard - 1981-1991 Washington Redskins: Outstanding guard but so was Kuechenberg.
Claude Humphrey - Defensive End - 1968-1978 Atlanta Falcons, 1979-1981 Philadelphia Eagles (injured reserve - 1975) : Never heard an annoncer in my life ever say..."He reminds me of the great Claude Humphrey"...he can wait.
Michael Irvin - Wide Receiver - 1988-1999 Dallas Cowboys: His college career almost spills over into his pro career...he will get in but they can't put him in the same year as Aikman. Aikman 1st...Irvin in a year or two. His off field antics have not helped.
Bob Kuechenberg - Guard - 1970-1984 Miami Dolphins (injured reserve - 1984): Really deserves tog et in...Played in 5 Super Bowls, winning 2 of them. He was a tremendous player...blocked for Csonka, Mercury morris, Bob Griese, Dan Marino...
John Madden - Coach - 1969-1978 Oakland Raiders: I've heard players say they would have won more Super Bowls with a different coach.
Art Monk - Wide Receiver - 1980-1993 Washington Redskins, 1994 New York Jets, 1995 Philadelphia Eagles: Before Aikman can we vote in the player that left the game with the most catches, yds, etc...what a WR, truly clutch...enough already.
Warren Moon - Quarterback - 1984-1993 Houston Oilers, 1994-1996 Minnesota Vikings, 1997-1998 Seattle Seahawks, 1999-2000 Kansas City Chiefs: See all those teams that he played for...thjere's a reason for that. he has got to wait a year or 2...sorry Mr Moon.
Derrick Thomas - Linebacker - 1989-1999 Kansas City Chiefs: Will get in, but let's put White in 1st than move to Thomas next season. If we put in all dead players it would cut down on the induction speeches and that's not good TV for ESPN.
Thurman Thomas - Running Back - 1988-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Miami Dolphins: Was the 1st of the Superbacks. He will get in but maybe not this season.
Reggie White - Defensive End/Defensive Tackle - 1985-1992 Philadelphia Eagles, 1993-1998 Green Bay Packers, 2000 Carolina Panthers: He's in.
Rayfield Wright - Tackle - 1967-1979 Dallas Cowboys: Ray Ray can wait.
Gary Zimmerman - Tackle - 1986-1992 Minnesota Vikings, 1993-1997 Denver Broncos: Was a dominant Tackle for his days. He'll have to wait though.
I highlighted 4 players...I left a cushion for a couple more.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I get it but what big games did he ever win? Seriously. Marino had defining games. The game I remember Moon playing in they lost 41-38 to the Bills...sorry. He was a great QB but he might not get in 1st ballot.Since it is the PRO football HOF, not the NFL HOF, Moon should be considered a first ballot guy, but he won't get in Saturday....
Sheriff66
Footballguy
Add in his CFL stats, he started playing pro ball in 1978, that is a loooooong and productive career. I agree he won't get in first ballot, but an argument can be made...I get it but what big games did he ever win? Seriously. Marino had defining games. The game I remember Moon playing in they lost 41-38 to the Bills...sorry. He was a great QB but he might not get in 1st ballot.Since it is the PRO football HOF, not the NFL HOF, Moon should be considered a first ballot guy, but he won't get in Saturday....
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ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
I know a little bit and what I do know makes him a HOFer. But why I think he gets in is the "re-raising" of the old "Anti-Cowboy HOF bias" crap. IMO, some folks who want him in there raised this issue again recently so that voters would feel like putting in both Aikman and Wright would shut it up. Hopefully their pity doesn't extend to Irvin.
Mr. Mojo
Footballguy
I think Montana's ability was what helped the Niners become that dominant team.He also performed at a high level for many years past the Niner's peak. Aikman was really only a top QB for a few years and was mediocre for the last several years. I'm not saying that he absolutely shouldn't get in, but I think it's debatable and shouldn't be the lock that it will be (just like you said).Couldn't you say this about a ton of QBs though? How many QBs would have won with those 49er teams? Doesn't mean Montana isn't deserving. How many QBs would have won with the Steelers teams? Doesn't mean Bradshaw isn't deserving. The bottom line is that there are lots of teams with tons of talent that DON'T win the Super Bowl. Aikman's accuracy and decision making were as good or better than anybody's. AND his team won 3 Super Bowls. HOF lock.I'm another one that doesn't think he should be in.I describe Aikman as "Trent Green with 3 rings". Aikman was a top QB when he had the powerhouse of a team around him but when the Cowboys were not a dynasty, his play was mediocre and he did almost nothing to raise the level of their team.For those who wouldn't vote Aikman in
Trent Green is good enough to have won 3 rings on the Cowboy powerhouse of the 90s. There are plenty of other good, solid QBs who could have played just as well and been as successful also.
Perfect Tommy
Footballguy
White is the lock of all locks. He will be unanimous. I think Moon deserves to get in. He was not only a top QB for many years, but a great CFL QB as well. And he was a pioneer as far as the black QB thing goes. His stats and career are enough, but as the first great black QB he should be a lock. Madden has to be in the Hall. Without somebody like Madden, it isn't even the Hall. He is perhaps the most recognizable figure in the game. Those are my predictions. I also think Thurman Thomas deserves it. He was arguably the best RB in football for some time and got 4 AFC titles. I would wait on Aikman. His stats weren't gaudy, and I never thought he was all that great. He'll probably get there, but with Moon, Madden and White taking so many votes, I am guessing he'll have to wait.
On The Rocks
Footballguy
i disagree. admittedly as a bills fan i am biased. i just don't see how he couldn't go on a first ballot. even without his SB appearances he goes...maybe not on a first ballot, but the SB appearances should solidify it for him.
hofer
Footballguy
I think if Derrick Thomas hadn't died in a car crash that abruptly ended an amazing career, his HOF status wouldn't even be debatable. I think he should be in on this ballot anyways. As for others, I like White, Madden and maybeeeeee Moon. As a homer pick I would have to go with Zimmerman, but he won't get in until a slow year.
Csonka4life
Footballguy
Thomas is sooooooooo overrated. He was the Jose Canseco of football. For every great sack he also over persued running playings. Teams literally ran at him.......
