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Who's MVP? (1 Viewer)

MVP thru 8 weeks:

  • Peyton Manning

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Eli Manning

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Aaron Rogers

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • LaDanian Tomlinson

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Arian Foster

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Adrian Peterson

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Roddy White

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Drew Brees

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Someone else

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
I don't think the MVP should come from a losing team, especially one that was suppose to walk away with their division...so that takes River's out of my vote. Lawrence Timmons has been an absolute stud all season, tackles, picks, sacks and really has been leading the Steelers to the best D in the NFL, they have not even allowed a single team to rush for more thank 75 yards yet this season which is the first time in NFL history. If it had to be an offensive player, I would say Peyton, he has not had any consistency at RB as they keep getting hurt and he keeps losing his WR'ers and he lost one of the best TE's in the game and yet they keep winning.I think Clay is in the conversation as well, but was trying not to be a homer. :-)
I don't think it makes anyone a homer to think Clay deserves to be in the conversation.Leading the league in sacks...causing havoc and he missed a game and a half. And in that game and a half we saw what Green Bay's defense was like without him.
 
sho nuff said:
DesmondBishop said:
I don't think the MVP should come from a losing team, especially one that was suppose to walk away with their division...so that takes River's out of my vote. Lawrence Timmons has been an absolute stud all season, tackles, picks, sacks and really has been leading the Steelers to the best D in the NFL, they have not even allowed a single team to rush for more thank 75 yards yet this season which is the first time in NFL history. If it had to be an offensive player, I would say Peyton, he has not had any consistency at RB as they keep getting hurt and he keeps losing his WR'ers and he lost one of the best TE's in the game and yet they keep winning.I think Clay is in the conversation as well, but was trying not to be a homer. :-)
I don't think it makes anyone a homer to think Clay deserves to be in the conversation.Leading the league in sacks...causing havoc and he missed a game and a half. And in that game and a half we saw what Green Bay's defense was like without him.
Exactly. The Packers were cruising on the Redskins until Matthews got knocked out of the game... we all know how that game ended... if he were able to finish the skins game there would have been no way the Skins get away with it...
 
DesmondBishop said:
I don't think the MVP should come from a losing team, especially one that was suppose to walk away with their division...so that takes River's out of my vote. Lawrence Timmons has been an absolute stud all season, tackles, picks, sacks and really has been leading the Steelers to the best D in the NFL, they have not even allowed a single team to rush for more thank 75 yards yet this season which is the first time in NFL history. If it had to be an offensive player, I would say Peyton, he has not had any consistency at RB as they keep getting hurt and he keeps losing his WR'ers and he lost one of the best TE's in the game and yet they keep winning.I think Clay is in the conversation as well, but was trying not to be a homer. :-)
How do we know SD will be a losing team by the end of the year? How do we know any of these other teasm will be winners? MVP is the most valuable player to their team. Certainly a case can be made for several defensive players like Clay Matthews. However, Philip Rivers and Peyton Manning are crucial to their team's success. Without those 2 players on their respective teams, neither team has more than 2 wins.
 
DesmondBishop said:
I don't think the MVP should come from a losing team, especially one that was suppose to walk away with their division...so that takes River's out of my vote. Lawrence Timmons has been an absolute stud all season, tackles, picks, sacks and really has been leading the Steelers to the best D in the NFL, they have not even allowed a single team to rush for more thank 75 yards yet this season which is the first time in NFL history. If it had to be an offensive player, I would say Peyton, he has not had any consistency at RB as they keep getting hurt and he keeps losing his WR'ers and he lost one of the best TE's in the game and yet they keep winning.I think Clay is in the conversation as well, but was trying not to be a homer. :-)
How do we know SD will be a losing team by the end of the year? How do we know any of these other teasm will be winners? MVP is the most valuable player to their team. Certainly a case can be made for several defensive players like Clay Matthews. However, Philip Rivers and Peyton Manning are crucial to their team's success. Without those 2 players on their respective teams, neither team has more than 2 wins.
The problem with that last statement is that you can say that about most teams if they lost their QBs.Where would the Packers be without Rodgers? (and he has not even played that great).
 
nysportsfan said:
Rivers

Manning

Gates

Foster
Wait? I thought Rivers didn't have anyone to throw to all year because of how decimated his receivers have been?Could it be that he is possibly benefitting from the best TE in all of football? Yeah Gates missed last week and Rivers still played well...against the 32nd ranked pass defense.

And speaking of defensive rankings, lets take a look at the Chargers opponents and their pass defensive rankings, shall we?

(Rankings based on passing yards allowed per game)

1-KC-21

2-JAX-28

3-SEA-30

4-ARZ-27

5-OAK-3

6-STL-16

7-NEP-29

8-TEN-23

9-HOU-32

That is an average ranking of 23.2! They have played TWO teams in the top HALF of pass defenses.

Oh, and they still have a losing record.

No way is Rivers the MVP right now. His TD/INT ratio is 2.375. Manning's is ration 4.0 and his team is 5-3 and he's right on Rivers' heels in per game stats...plus he's had just as many injuries to his team.

People voting for Rivers are voting for the fantasy MVP, not NFL.

ETA: Rivers also has 3 fumbles lost compared to Peyton's 1.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
DesmondBishop said:
I don't think the MVP should come from a losing team, especially one that was suppose to walk away with their division...so that takes River's out of my vote. Lawrence Timmons has been an absolute stud all season, tackles, picks, sacks and really has been leading the Steelers to the best D in the NFL, they have not even allowed a single team to rush for more thank 75 yards yet this season which is the first time in NFL history. If it had to be an offensive player, I would say Peyton, he has not had any consistency at RB as they keep getting hurt and he keeps losing his WR'ers and he lost one of the best TE's in the game and yet they keep winning.I think Clay is in the conversation as well, but was trying not to be a homer. :-)
How do we know SD will be a losing team by the end of the year? How do we know any of these other teasm will be winners? MVP is the most valuable player to their team. Certainly a case can be made for several defensive players like Clay Matthews. However, Philip Rivers and Peyton Manning are crucial to their team's success. Without those 2 players on their respective teams, neither team has more than 2 wins.
It says MVP through week 8, he will not have a winning record through week 8. :-) Rivers has been playing very well, but just like with Superbowls, QB's get too much credit for winning and too much blame for losing them, he has led his team to a losing record through 8 games.
 
No way is Rivers the MVP right now. His TD/INT ratio is 2.375. Manning's is ration 4.0 and his team is 5-3 and he's right on Rivers' heels in per game stats...plus he's had just as many injuries to his team.
The bolded statement is misleading if taken literally, because the Chargers have had 14 games missed due to holdout rather than injury. Missed games by Colts offensive players:Clark (TE1) - 2

Garcon (WR2) - 2

Collie (WR3) - 1

Gonzalez (WR4) - 6

Addai (RB1) - 2

Brown (RB2) - 3

OL (starters) - 2

That's 18 missed player games in 8 team games. Missed games by Chargers offensive players (and kicker):

Gates (TE1) - 1

Jackson (WR1) - 9

Floyd (WR2) - 3

Naanee (WR3) - 4

Davis (WR4) - 2

Mathews (RB1) - 1

OL (starters) - 10

Kaeding (K1) - 3

That's 33 missed player games in 9 team games. Please correct me if I missed some for the Colts. Otherwise, Manning has not had to deal with as many missed games by his offensive teammates as Rivers has. Furthermore, Manning's top 4 targets (TE1, WR1, WR2, WR3) have only missed a total of 5 games so far, whereas the equivalent Chargers group has missed 17 games so far.

Now, it's true that Clark is out for the season and will only end up having played 6 games... but Vincent Jackson will only play 6 games. And Gonzalez is out for the season... but so is Buster Davis... they filled equivalent roles. I'm not sure what the latest is on Addai, but I assume he will miss some more games. But, while Mathews has only missed 1 game, he has been playing with an ankle sprain that has reduced his effectiveness... and the Chargers OL has missed a lot more games, which has presumably negatively affected the Chargers' running game.

Bottom line: the Colts running game has been hit harder, while the Chargers receiving corps has been hit harder (to date). When discussing QB performance (and splitting hairs), losing games from top targets arguably matters more than losing games from RBs. Heck, losing games from RBs has led to Manning getting more pass attempts, which has helped his per game passing numbers stay closer to Rivers than they likely would have otherwise.

 
lets take a look at the Chargers opponents and their pass defensive rankings, shall we?(Rankings based on passing yards allowed per game)1-KC-212-JAX-283-SEA-304-ARZ-275-OAK-36-STL-167-NEP-298-TEN-239-HOU-32That is an average ranking of 23.2! They have played TWO teams in the top HALF of pass defenses.
Colts opponents and their pass defensive rankings:1-HOU-322-NYG-23-DEN-84-JAX-285-KC-216-WAS-318-HOU-329-PHI-15That is an average ranking of 21.1. Yeah, that's a huge difference.
 
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/giants-...half-mvp-110910

We are halfway home in the NFL.

We hand out our midseason awards, SCHEIN 9 style.

Let the debate begin.

1. NFL MVP: Eli Manning

It’s been a wild, unpredictable year in the NFL. And there is no standout candidate for the prestigious award at the midway point. You don’t have the quarterback putting up eye-popping numbers. We don’t have an undefeated team. There isn’t a running back compiling gaudy statistics on a weekly basis.

I always make sure to stress the value in most valuable player. For example, Drew Brees received my vote for offensive player of the year in 2008 and was my choice at quarterback for first team All-Pro. I voted Peyton Manning league MVP. Manning had the Colts achieving. The Saints went 8-8.

I give you all of the above to set up the case for Giants quarterback Eli Manning as the MVP at the midway point.

He has everything I look for in a candidate.

The 6-2 Giants are the best team in the NFC. They are in the conversation for the best team in the NFL. Manning is the most important player on the team. His cool, calm demeanor is perfect for the New York glare and spotlight. And his teammates feed off of his poise. As Keith Bulluck told us on SNY the day after the Giants rallied to beat Dallas, “There was never a moment we thought we would lose that game. That mentality starts with Eli.” Down 10-0, down 20-7, Eli never flinched. He put the team on his back, and the Giants never flinched.

Remember all of that idiotic chatter about Tom Coughlin losing the Giants? Look at Eli’s numbers after the 1-2 start.

He has the value. And Eli, for some strange reason, doesn’t get enough credit for being great. Eli is sixth in the NFL in passing, third in touchdowns. These numbers shouldn’t be minimized on a team that believes in running the football, built for the cold weather in New York. Manning is putting up the requisite numbers even while playing with the third-leading rusher in the league, Ahmad Bradshaw. Do you realize that the Giants have the No. 2 offense in the NFL right now? You must consider an MVP candidate on the Giants. Look at what the Giants have done to opponents on the road, with Eli breaking the will of the Texans and Seahawks early in blowouts.

And I do not want to hear about the interceptions. Watch the games. Eli’s stat sheet says 11 on the season. I would say, on a very conservative guess, five or six of those passes went off the hands of the intended receiver. The number of picks should be cut in half. Manning is completing 65.7 percent of his passes, which would represent the best mark of his career.

Eli has been consistently great, ultra reliable. He has thrown at least two touchdowns passes in a game six times this season, including each of the last four as the Giants distance themselves from the pack. This is a tremendous stat proving that word again -- value.

The Giants have talented and diverse receivers, but Eli has maximized the group, spending the offseason working with Hakeem Nicks, Steve Smith and Mario Manningham. Eli has made Nicks elite and a sure-fire Pro Bowler.

Peyton is a candidate with the plethora of injuries on the Colts. Philip Rivers had done wonders on offense for the Chargers, but they are 3-5. Tom Brady is Tom Brady. Aaron Rodgers has dealt with injuries and has more yards passing than Manning, but Eli has been more consistent.

It’s early, but it is Eli’s award to lose halfway home in 2010.

2. Offensive player of the year: Roddy White

White has been a freak for the first-place Falcons. He has 58 catches, five touchdowns and 796 yards. And when you watch the games, he has been an absolute game changer.

Rivers and Arian Foster are heavily in the mix.

3. Defensive player of the year: Clay Matthews Jr.

He leads the NFL in sacks with 10.5. But Matthews is more than that. He is a great tackler. He makes key tackles behind the line of scrimmage. Matthews strikes fear in opposing offenses.

Ndamukong Suh and Haloti Ngata were also on my short list.



4. Coach of the Year: Raheem Morris

I thought the Bucs would win five games – between 2009 and 2010. Tampa is 5-3 at the midway point. Morris finally took ownership of his staff and put the team in the hands of young Josh Freeman as the unquestioned leader. I think everyone who follows the league looks at the Bucs with a jaded view, wondering when they will collapse. Morris consistently has the Bucs ready, playing their best ball late in games.

Steelers coach Mike Tomlin is currently No. 2 on my list, and frankly more of a “1-A”. Separating Morris from Tomlin was rather difficult. Tomlin’s 6-2 start, while missing Ben Roethlisberger for the first quarter of the season, is incredible.

5. Offensive rookie of the year: Sam Bradford

I really wrestled with three names; Bradford, Mike Williams and Maurkice Pouncey.

Williams has been sensational. And consider the fact that he was a fourth-round pick after his botched exit from Syracuse. Williams has five touchdowns with 559 receiving yards.

I always like to look at the offensive line. I voted for Michael Oher last year. And Maurkice Pouncey, the young Steelers center, deserves consideration.

But I have to give the edge to Bradford, who has shown incredible poise for a young quarterback since Week 1, even in a loss against Arizona. The difference between Williams and Bradford is the ultra important position of quarterback. Bradford has 11 touchdowns against eight picks, guiding the first-place Rams to four wins -- or three more than last year before Bradford arrived. Bradford has played strong, clutch football in the victories against Washington, Seattle, San Diego and Carolina.

6. Defensive rookie of the year: Ndamukong Suh

There is no other choice. Suh has been predictably unstoppable in his neophyte campaign.

7. Comeback player of the year: Brandon Lloyd

There is ambiguity on what a player is technically coming back from. It could be injury, poor performance or anything in between.

LaDainian Tomlinson has proved the Chargers wrong. Osi Umenyiora, benched last year, is starting and starring for the Giants. And if Mike Vick keeps winning, that’s a name to monitor for the second half.

But I’m going with a player who has morphed from bust, self-serving promoter, and afterthought to star. Lloyd, Kyle Orton’s go-to-guy in Denver, leads the league in receiving yards. Not bad for a guy who got thrown out of San Fran with his attitude, never lived up to his deal in Washington, was a non-factor in Chicago, and caught eight balls with the Broncos last year.

8. Surprise Player of the Year: Arian Foster

I knew he would be good. But the offense now runs through him in Houston. And let’s not forget that the organization thought so much of him that they spent a second-round draft pick on Ben Tate, hoping he could carry the mail.

Foster has given Houston attitude, pounding the opposition for 864 yards this season.

9. Biggest disappointment: Dallas defense

I like to toot my own horn that I had the Cowboys finishing in dead last in the NFC East when I made my preseason picks here on FOXSports.com. But I thought the Dallas defense would be good. They have disgraced the league with their gutless play and should be arrested for stealing money from Jerry Jones.

 
nysportsfan said:
Rivers

Manning

Gates

Foster
Wait? I thought Rivers didn't have anyone to throw to all year because of how decimated his receivers have been?Could it be that he is possibly benefitting from the best TE in all of football? Yeah Gates missed last week and Rivers still played well...against the 32nd ranked pass defense.

And speaking of defensive rankings, lets take a look at the Chargers opponents and their pass defensive rankings, shall we?

(Rankings based on passing yards allowed per game)

1-KC-21

2-JAX-28

3-SEA-30

4-ARZ-27

5-OAK-3

6-STL-16

7-NEP-29

8-TEN-23

9-HOU-32

That is an average ranking of 23.2! They have played TWO teams in the top HALF of pass defenses.

Oh, and they still have a losing record.

No way is Rivers the MVP right now. His TD/INT ratio is 2.375. Manning's is ration 4.0 and his team is 5-3 and he's right on Rivers' heels in per game stats...plus he's had just as many injuries to his team.

People voting for Rivers are voting for the fantasy MVP, not NFL.

ETA: Rivers also has 3 fumbles lost compared to Peyton's 1.
I own neither in "fantasy" but would vote Rivers in the NFL. I don't expect the Chargers to finish sub-.500, either.
 
nysportsfan said:
Rivers

Manning

Gates

Foster
Wait? I thought Rivers didn't have anyone to throw to all year because of how decimated his receivers have been?Could it be that he is possibly benefitting from the best TE in all of football? Yeah Gates missed last week and Rivers still played well...against the 32nd ranked pass defense.

And speaking of defensive rankings, lets take a look at the Chargers opponents and their pass defensive rankings, shall we?

(Rankings based on passing yards allowed per game)

1-KC-21

2-JAX-28

3-SEA-30

4-ARZ-27

5-OAK-3

6-STL-16

7-NEP-29

8-TEN-23

9-HOU-32

That is an average ranking of 23.2! They have played TWO teams in the top HALF of pass defenses.

Oh, and they still have a losing record.

No way is Rivers the MVP right now. His TD/INT ratio is 2.375. Manning's is ration 4.0 and his team is 5-3 and he's right on Rivers' heels in per game stats...plus he's had just as many injuries to his team.

People voting for Rivers are voting for the fantasy MVP, not NFL.

ETA: Rivers also has 3 fumbles lost compared to Peyton's 1.
I own neither in "fantasy" but would vote Rivers in the NFL. I don't expect the Chargers to finish sub-.500, either.
This isn't based on what you "expect". It is based on the current reality. The current reality is that the Chargers have lost more games than they've won. Trying to guess what will happen in the next 8 weeks isn't relevant.And you don't have to own either in fantasy to be jaded by the stats because you look at the NFL through the lens of fantasy football.

I'm saying the difference in TD/INT ratio is of more importance to a team than the handful of additional yards per game from Rivers.

If this was Peyton's rookie year he'd be winning this award hands down for the way he RUNS THE WHOLE OFFENSE. People have become so jaded by the fact that he's done it for years that it isn't a big deal....yet no other QB has the same reponsibility. Not Rivers, not Peyton's brother, no one. Peyton has almost complete control over 50% of his team's games and yet people see he's thrown for less yards than Rivers and claim Rivers is more valuable to his team while throwing more picks and losing more games. Ridiculous.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
nysportsfan said:
Rivers

Manning

Gates

Foster
Wait? I thought Rivers didn't have anyone to throw to all year because of how decimated his receivers have been?Could it be that he is possibly benefitting from the best TE in all of football? Yeah Gates missed last week and Rivers still played well...against the 32nd ranked pass defense.

And speaking of defensive rankings, lets take a look at the Chargers opponents and their pass defensive rankings, shall we?

(Rankings based on passing yards allowed per game)

1-KC-21

2-JAX-28

3-SEA-30

4-ARZ-27

5-OAK-3

6-STL-16

7-NEP-29

8-TEN-23

9-HOU-32

That is an average ranking of 23.2! They have played TWO teams in the top HALF of pass defenses.

Oh, and they still have a losing record.

No way is Rivers the MVP right now. His TD/INT ratio is 2.375. Manning's is ration 4.0 and his team is 5-3 and he's right on Rivers' heels in per game stats...plus he's had just as many injuries to his team.

People voting for Rivers are voting for the fantasy MVP, not NFL.

ETA: Rivers also has 3 fumbles lost compared to Peyton's 1.
I own neither in "fantasy" but would vote Rivers in the NFL. I don't expect the Chargers to finish sub-.500, either.
This isn't based on what you "expect". It is based on the current reality. The current reality is that the Chargers have lost more games than they've won. Trying to guess what will happen in the next 8 weeks isn't relevant.And you don't have to own either in fantasy to be jaded by the stats because you look at the NFL through the lens of fantasy football.

I'm saying the difference in TD/INT ratio is of more importance to a team than the handful of additional yards per game from Rivers.

If this was Peyton's rookie year he'd be winning this award hands down for the way he RUNS THE WHOLE OFFENSE. People have become so jaded by the fact that he's done it for years that it isn't a big deal....yet no other QB has the same reponsibility. Not Rivers, not Peyton's brother, no one. Peyton has almost complete control over 50% of his team's games and yet people see he's thrown for less yards than Rivers and claim Rivers is more valuable to his team while throwing more picks and losing more games. Ridiculous.
Peyton has one more win than Rivers, with the difference being the San Diego special teams, which has nothing to do with him. IMO you are severely overstating the gap here.Yes, Peyton has a better TD/interception ratio, which is a credit to him for sure. And Rivers has a better overall efficiency rating, which is a credit to him for sure. It's very close statistically, which means the edge goes to the guy who (a) is on pace to set an NFL record and (b) is doing it while dealing with more missed games from his primary targets.

 
nysportsfan said:
Rivers

Manning

Gates

Foster
Wait? I thought Rivers didn't have anyone to throw to all year because of how decimated his receivers have been?Could it be that he is possibly benefitting from the best TE in all of football? Yeah Gates missed last week and Rivers still played well...against the 32nd ranked pass defense.

And speaking of defensive rankings, lets take a look at the Chargers opponents and their pass defensive rankings, shall we?

(Rankings based on passing yards allowed per game)

1-KC-21

2-JAX-28

3-SEA-30

4-ARZ-27

5-OAK-3

6-STL-16

7-NEP-29

8-TEN-23

9-HOU-32

That is an average ranking of 23.2! They have played TWO teams in the top HALF of pass defenses.

Oh, and they still have a losing record.

No way is Rivers the MVP right now. His TD/INT ratio is 2.375. Manning's is ration 4.0 and his team is 5-3 and he's right on Rivers' heels in per game stats...plus he's had just as many injuries to his team.

People voting for Rivers are voting for the fantasy MVP, not NFL.

ETA: Rivers also has 3 fumbles lost compared to Peyton's 1.
I own neither in "fantasy" but would vote Rivers in the NFL. I don't expect the Chargers to finish sub-.500, either.
This isn't based on what you "expect". It is based on the current reality. The current reality is that the Chargers have lost more games than they've won. Trying to guess what will happen in the next 8 weeks isn't relevant.And you don't have to own either in fantasy to be jaded by the stats because you look at the NFL through the lens of fantasy football.

I'm saying the difference in TD/INT ratio is of more importance to a team than the handful of additional yards per game from Rivers.

If this was Peyton's rookie year he'd be winning this award hands down for the way he RUNS THE WHOLE OFFENSE. People have become so jaded by the fact that he's done it for years that it isn't a big deal....yet no other QB has the same reponsibility. Not Rivers, not Peyton's brother, no one. Peyton has almost complete control over 50% of his team's games and yet people see he's thrown for less yards than Rivers and claim Rivers is more valuable to his team while throwing more picks and losing more games. Ridiculous.
Peyton has one more win than Rivers, with the difference being the San Diego special teams, which has nothing to do with him. IMO you are severely overstating the gap here.Yes, Peyton has a better TD/interception ratio, which is a credit to him for sure. And Rivers has a better overall efficiency rating, which is a credit to him for sure. It's very close statistically, which means the edge goes to the guy who (a) is on pace to set an NFL record and (b) is doing it while dealing with more missed games from his primary targets.
Rivers has also lost 2 more games than Peyton.Rivers really only has one primary target and he's missed a grand total of one game. And that target has actually been mentioned in this thread as a candidate for MVP himself.

And I like how you discount Peyton's control over his offense. Jaded, jaded, jaded......

Stats >< value.....again, this is not fantasy, its real life NFL.

 
Wait? I thought Rivers didn't have anyone to throw to all year because of how decimated his receivers have been?Could it be that he is possibly benefitting from the best TE in all of football? Yeah Gates missed last week and Rivers still played well...against the 32nd ranked pass defense.And speaking of defensive rankings, lets take a look at the Chargers opponents and their pass defensive rankings, shall we?(Rankings based on passing yards allowed per game)1-KC-212-JAX-283-SEA-304-ARZ-275-OAK-36-STL-167-NEP-298-TEN-239-HOU-32That is an average ranking of 23.2! They have played TWO teams in the top HALF of pass defenses.Oh, and they still have a losing record.No way is Rivers the MVP right now. His TD/INT ratio is 2.375. Manning's is ration 4.0 and his team is 5-3 and he's right on Rivers' heels in per game stats...plus he's had just as many injuries to his team.People voting for Rivers are voting for the fantasy MVP, not NFL.ETA: Rivers also has 3 fumbles lost compared to Peyton's 1.
I own neither in "fantasy" but would vote Rivers in the NFL. I don't expect the Chargers to finish sub-.500, either.
This isn't based on what you "expect". It is based on the current reality. The current reality is that the Chargers have lost more games than they've won. Trying to guess what will happen in the next 8 weeks isn't relevant.And you don't have to own either in fantasy to be jaded by the stats because you look at the NFL through the lens of fantasy football.I'm saying the difference in TD/INT ratio is of more importance to a team than the handful of additional yards per game from Rivers.If this was Peyton's rookie year he'd be winning this award hands down for the way he RUNS THE WHOLE OFFENSE. People have become so jaded by the fact that he's done it for years that it isn't a big deal....yet no other QB has the same reponsibility. Not Rivers, not Peyton's brother, no one. Peyton has almost complete control over 50% of his team's games and yet people see he's thrown for less yards than Rivers and claim Rivers is more valuable to his team while throwing more picks and losing more games. Ridiculous.
Peyton has one more win than Rivers, with the difference being the San Diego special teams, which has nothing to do with him. IMO you are severely overstating the gap here.Yes, Peyton has a better TD/interception ratio, which is a credit to him for sure. And Rivers has a better overall efficiency rating, which is a credit to him for sure. It's very close statistically, which means the edge goes to the guy who (a) is on pace to set an NFL record and (b) is doing it while dealing with more missed games from his primary targets.
Rivers has also lost 2 more games than Peyton.Rivers really only has one primary target and he's missed a grand total of one game. And that target has actually been mentioned in this thread as a candidate for MVP himself.And I like how you discount Peyton's control over his offense. Jaded, jaded, jaded......Stats >< value.....again, this is not fantasy, its real life NFL.
I like how you ignore Vincent Jackson's absence. He has missed 9 games. Rivers would have two primary targets had he not held out.Yes, Gates was mentioned but he is not a realistic candidate. Heck, I think Wayne should be a candidate... there, he's now been mentioned, so I guess that should take away from Peyton's candidacy, right? :goodposting:I know that stats do not equal value, but thanks for acting like anyone who doesn't share your opinion is a football neophyte. I have watched both of them play a lot. I'm not discounting anything about Manning, but it's pretty clear you are discounting Rivers' performance. IMO Manning is the second most worthy MVP candidate right now.
 
I'm saying the difference in TD/INT ratio is of more importance to a team than the handful of additional yards per game from Rivers.
Would it be fair to say that TD-INT ratio is more important in 2010, but it was not nearly so important in 2008 or 2009?Total yards were probably more important in 2009. And in 2008 . . . rushing TDs were more important?If Manning beats Rivers in one out of five main stats each season, whichever one he's ahead in is the most important for that particular year? :missing:
 
I prefer to discuss who SHOULD be MVP at this point not who WOULD be. So I think that players on losing teams and defensive players SHOULD be in the discussion.

So Rivers, P. Manning, and Mathews are my top 3.

 
I'm saying the difference in TD/INT ratio is of more importance to a team than the handful of additional yards per game from Rivers.
Would it be fair to say that TD-INT ratio is more important in 2010, but it was not nearly so important in 2008 or 2009?Total yards were probably more important in 2009. And in 2008 . . . rushing TDs were more important?If Manning beats Rivers in one out of five main stats each season, whichever one he's ahead in is the most important for that particular year? :crazy:
No, I'm pretty much saying that TD/INT ratio is one of the most important stats year in and year out for QB's. It is also the largest disparity of any stat between the two QB's right now.And for the poster above talking about Vincent Jackson.....VJ hasn't been with the team at all this season. It wasn't like he was a starter and got hurt. That is a lot different than losing a player in mid-season. Heck if we want to talk about WR's that are missing from prior seasons, than Manning is missing Harrison this year and we need to take that into consideration.Fact is, Gates is Rivers' #1 reciever (has been for years) and he has only missed one game and is on a record setting pace himself. The "OMG, Rivers entire team is decimated" guys need to keep that in mind.
 
No mention of Peyton Manning but plenty for Rivers?Manning is just a 1/2 step behind Rivers in PassYd/game & TD/game, but has almost 1/2 the INT's. And Rivers has 2 more fumbles. And Manning has had just as many injuries to his WR's and has a worse defense and plays in a tougher division and has a better record.And don't forget about the difference between what Manning does for his offense on every play vs. what Rivers does.Peyton >> Rivers this year and every year so far.Its like not voting for Michael Jordan every year just because he's won MVP before.
Stop making sense. This is the shark pool for gosh sakes.
 
And for the poster above talking about Vincent Jackson.....VJ hasn't been with the team at all this season. It wasn't like he was a starter and got hurt. That is a lot different than losing a player in mid-season. Heck if we want to talk about WR's that are missing from prior seasons, than Manning is missing Harrison this year and we need to take that into consideration.Fact is, Gates is Rivers' #1 reciever (has been for years) and he has only missed one game and is on a record setting pace himself. The "OMG, Rivers entire team is decimated" guys need to keep that in mind.
Your comment about Harrison is ridiculous. Jackson was San Diego's #1 WR last season, and he will be their #1 WR again in a couple of weeks. Had he not refused to sign his tender, he would have been their #1 WR all season. We're not talking about a guy who was on the team last year and retired or moved on to another franchise. We're talking about the Chargers' current #1 WR.If you want to compare receiving options, Wayne is Manning's top option, and he has not missed any games; Gates is Rivers' top option and he has missed a game... and Clark is Manning's second option and has missed two games to date, while Rivers' second option is Jackson, who has missed the entire season so far. It's not close.And with this post, I'm tired of continuing this fruitless debate. It will be much more interesting if the Chargers finish strong with 9+ wins and win their division.
 
Just Win Baby said:
Jayrod said:
And for the poster above talking about Vincent Jackson.....VJ hasn't been with the team at all this season. It wasn't like he was a starter and got hurt. That is a lot different than losing a player in mid-season. Heck if we want to talk about WR's that are missing from prior seasons, than Manning is missing Harrison this year and we need to take that into consideration.Fact is, Gates is Rivers' #1 reciever (has been for years) and he has only missed one game and is on a record setting pace himself. The "OMG, Rivers entire team is decimated" guys need to keep that in mind.
Your comment about Harrison is ridiculous. Jackson was San Diego's #1 WR last season, and he will be their #1 WR again in a couple of weeks. Had he not refused to sign his tender, he would have been their #1 WR all season. We're not talking about a guy who was on the team last year and retired or moved on to another franchise. We're talking about the Chargers' current #1 WR.If you want to compare receiving options, Wayne is Manning's top option, and he has not missed any games; Gates is Rivers' top option and he has missed a game... and Clark is Manning's second option and has missed two games to date, while Rivers' second option is Jackson, who has missed the entire season so far. It's not close.And with this post, I'm tired of continuing this fruitless debate. It will be much more interesting if the Chargers finish strong with 9+ wins and win their division.
How can a guy be his #1 WR this year if he NEVER EVEN PRACTICED WITH THE TEAM IN THE PRESEASON, MINI-CAMP, PREGAME, ETC.!!!!!And guess what? There were guys that got all of his practice reps and came into their games expecting to be starters. Now if you want to talk about those guys injuries as being detrimental I'll give you that, but Jackson is completely irrelevant. They never gave him a thought during any practice this year. He has not been part of their team. As a matter of fact, he wasn't part of Peyton's team either. Shall we give Manning credit for not having Jackson on his team this year as well? I mean he attended just as many Colts practices and was part of the same number of Colts gameplans as the Chargers.Of course I'm being ridiculous, but the Marvin Harrison comparison is much closer than comparing Vincent Jackson to Dallas Clark.
 
Just Win Baby said:
Peyton >> Rivers this year and every year so far.
Missed this comment the first time. IMO Rivers outplayed Manning in both 2008 and 2009, and he is doing it again this season.
:moneybag:Really? You think all of those people who cover the sport and get to vote on MVP got it wrong two years in a row?This is further evidence that you are a blind homer he sees Rivers' stats and think he compares to Manning just because they have similar stats. Not one person has bothered to try and refute the fact that Peyton has much much more control over every play than Rivers does. Rivers is a good passer, but he is not the leader and on the field coach that Peyton is and doesn't control his offense play in, play out, game in and game out every single week like Peyton does.The fact that he is just barely doing better statistically in a couple of categories doesn't mean he is a better player.Once again, stats do not equal value.
 
Just Win Baby said:
Peyton >> Rivers this year and every year so far.
Missed this comment the first time. IMO Rivers outplayed Manning in both 2008 and 2009, and he is doing it again this season.
:confused:Really? You think all of those people who cover the sport and get to vote on MVP got it wrong two years in a row?This is further evidence that you are a blind homer he sees Rivers' stats and think he compares to Manning just because they have similar stats. Not one person has bothered to try and refute the fact that Peyton has much much more control over every play than Rivers does. Rivers is a good passer, but he is not the leader and on the field coach that Peyton is and doesn't control his offense play in, play out, game in and game out every single week like Peyton does.The fact that he is just barely doing better statistically in a couple of categories doesn't mean he is a better player.Once again, stats do not equal value.
It's funny, when Manning had the best stats, all the Manning backers kept pointing to his stats as evidence of his greatness.
 
Just Win Baby said:
Peyton >> Rivers this year and every year so far.
Missed this comment the first time. IMO Rivers outplayed Manning in both 2008 and 2009, and he is doing it again this season.
:thumbup:Really? You think all of those people who cover the sport and get to vote on MVP got it wrong two years in a row?This is further evidence that you are a blind homer he sees Rivers' stats and think he compares to Manning just because they have similar stats. Not one person has bothered to try and refute the fact that Peyton has much much more control over every play than Rivers does. Rivers is a good passer, but he is not the leader and on the field coach that Peyton is and doesn't control his offense play in, play out, game in and game out every single week like Peyton does.The fact that he is just barely doing better statistically in a couple of categories doesn't mean he is a better player.Once again, stats do not equal value.
After the gave D-MVP to Woodson over Revis last year, I have no respect for the people who 'over the sport and get to vote on MVP."
 
Just Win Baby said:
Peyton >> Rivers this year and every year so far.
Missed this comment the first time. IMO Rivers outplayed Manning in both 2008 and 2009, and he is doing it again this season.
:thumbup:Really? You think all of those people who cover the sport and get to vote on MVP got it wrong two years in a row?This is further evidence that you are a blind homer he sees Rivers' stats and think he compares to Manning just because they have similar stats. Not one person has bothered to try and refute the fact that Peyton has much much more control over every play than Rivers does. Rivers is a good passer, but he is not the leader and on the field coach that Peyton is and doesn't control his offense play in, play out, game in and game out every single week like Peyton does.The fact that he is just barely doing better statistically in a couple of categories doesn't mean he is a better player.Once again, stats do not equal value.
I didn't say Rivers should have been MVP in 2008 and 2009. I said IMO he outplayed Manning.If one sticks to the adage that MVP must come from a contending team with a strong record, as you have advocated in this thread, that eliminated Rivers in 2008 and gives Manning the edge so far this season. However, it shouldn't have been a factor in 2009.And I don't necessarily agree with that viewpoint to begin with. IMO every year is different and all worthy candidates should be considered on their merits. A good example is Rivers this year. He doesn't play special teams, and special teams has cost the Chargers 2+ games. IMO it is foolish to use that as a point against Rivers.ETA: Yes, I think those who cover the sport get plenty of things wrong that they vote on, including MVPs, All Pro selections, etc. As someone else already noted, it was criminal that Woodson won DPOY over Revis last season.
 
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Jayrod said:
Heck if we want to talk about WR's that are missing from prior seasons, than Manning is missing Harrison this year and we need to take that into consideration.
In case you wondering, this is the point in the thread where everyone decided that your arguments were no longer worth considering.
 
Just Win Baby said:
Peyton >> Rivers this year and every year so far.
Missed this comment the first time. IMO Rivers outplayed Manning in both 2008 and 2009, and he is doing it again this season.
:DReally? You think all of those people who cover the sport and get to vote on MVP got it wrong two years in a row?This is further evidence that you are a blind homer he sees Rivers' stats and think he compares to Manning just because they have similar stats. Not one person has bothered to try and refute the fact that Peyton has much much more control over every play than Rivers does. Rivers is a good passer, but he is not the leader and on the field coach that Peyton is and doesn't control his offense play in, play out, game in and game out every single week like Peyton does.The fact that he is just barely doing better statistically in a couple of categories doesn't mean he is a better player.Once again, stats do not equal value.
After the gave D-MVP to Woodson over Revis last year, I have no respect for the people who 'over the sport and get to vote on MVP."
Because Woodson was not deserving with his stats and what he does all around for that D?
 
I'm asking because there doesn't seem to be a clear choice right now. I wish I could vote for Rivers but his team has let him down. Just missed the cut:Ahmad BradshawTom BradyKyle OrtonBrandon LloydAntonio GatesMichael VickDarren McFaddenChris JohnsonHakeem Nicks
I don't understand why you can't put Rivers on the list, but you can list AP. The Chargers are 4-5 and the Vikes are 3-5. I definitely vote for Rivers...the guy is dominating.
 
It is assuming that Rivers will lead the Chargers to the playoffs and win MVP, but obviously if the season ended today he can't be in the top 5 even because under .500 teams in football will almost never produce a MVP. I don't care to look up statistics on that but it most likely rarely happens. Peyton Manning's team is on pace for 12 wins. He is on pace for nearly 5,000 yards, 32 tds, and 8 ints. At this point, lets just name the award after him.

 
Defenders don't win MVPs, neither do QBs with losing records. You can argue it shouldn't be that way, but it is.
Well, in most cases, no, they don't. But there was this guy Lawrence Taylor... And CMJ's season is shaping up to be very similar to LT's '86 season. I'm not saying Clay will win the award. After all, it has happened once and that was nearly two and half decades ago, but it has happened. But, if Clay continues to play at this insane level, and ends the season heads and shoulders ahead of all other defensive players, and the top offensive players are tightly grouped with no one really separating himself from the proverbial herd, well, it could certainly happen.

 
Voted "other" for Phillip Rivers... keeping the Chargers alive with a whose-who supporting cast.

Wide open MVP race at the turn though.

 
First off it will be a QB........Here are the projected stats for the leading canidates by seasons end for total passing yardage, total TD's, their pass attempts a game average and total ints.Rivers 5233 passing yards33td passes12 ints65% completion percentage37 passes attempts a game (592 by seasons end at this pace)P. Manning4956 yards32 tds8 ints65% completion percentage43 pass attempts a game (688 pass attempts a game by seasons end)Eli Manning4150 yards34 tds22 ints66% completion percentage34 pass attempts a game (544 pass attepmts a game by season end)Rodgers4088 yards26 tds16 ints63% completion percentage34 pass attempts a game ((544 pass attepmts a game by season end)
Not that it should make a huge difference, but Rivers is actually on pace for 14 INT's, not 12.
 
. As someone else already noted, it was criminal that Woodson won DPOY over Revis last season.
Criminal?I mean come on...both were lights out last year. I don't think some of you really watched Woodson though if you think this.
I watched plenty of both of them last year. There were multiple threads that went through this, and we don't need to get into that in this thread. IMO Revis was better by a considerable margin.I responded to Jayrod who was basically trying to discredit one of my posts by suggesting that I was saying the MVP voters got it wrong, which doesn't happen. I responded with an example that I feel illustrates that they do get it wrong sometimes. It's fine if you disagree and want to align yourself with Jayrod. :goodposting:
 
. As someone else already noted, it was criminal that Woodson won DPOY over Revis last season.
Criminal?I mean come on...both were lights out last year. I don't think some of you really watched Woodson though if you think this.
I watch him get called for holding ever week and wonder how often he is actually holding and not getting called.
Every week huh? :rolleyes:
After being flagged three times during an overtime loss at Washington in Week 5 and twice against the Dolphins, Woodson has nine penalties for 76 yards on the season. The nine penalties are the most in the NFL among defensive players.....
http://host.madison.com/sports/football/pr...1cc4c002e0.htmlThe penalties just haven't been called in the last couple of weeks but I don't think Woodson has changed his playing style.

 
So...what does week 5 and 6 of 2010 have to do with his 2009 award?

Anyone thinking a guy who had Woodson's ints...forced fumbles..tds...sacks and qb pressures...and what he did in run support and calls it criminal that he won is laughable.

Say its close and you think Revis deserved it...fine. But criminal and that far off? Sorry...I will argue against that any day of the week.

 

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