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Its his to lose now. He is carrying a very young team to the best record in the NFL. The Patriots have beaten all of the AFC contenders except one: Indy, SD, Balt, and Pitt. And they get the Jets a week from Monday with home field through the playoffs likely on the line.
Certainly it could happen, but I think NE may lose 2 more games (no, not next Mon) and may lose the division on a tiebreaker or outright. If that happens and Rivers continues to play like he has AND SD goes 5-1 (or better) the rest of the way then Rivers takes it. Not saying that is what I want to happen; just a hunch that it might end up being the most likely scenario. NEs D is still a year away imho.Its his to lose now. He is carrying a very young team to the best record in the NFL. The Patriots have beaten all of the AFC contenders except one: Indy, SD, Balt, and Pitt. And they get the Jets a week from Monday with home field through the playoffs likely on the line.
If the Pats beat the Jets next week on Brady's arm, he's the clear MVP.
Are you capable of making a case for Brady without saying something completely inaccurate?
Make your case for complete inaccuracy. Going into the game, their leading receiver, Welker, was not in the top ten in receptions, top 35 in yards, or top 25 in TDs. Contrast that with Rivers - where Gates is still tied for 3rd in TDs and has more yards than Welker in fewer games. Contrast that with Ryan - where Roddy is ridiculous in every category. Contrast that with Manning - where Wayne is 2nd in the NFL in receptions and fourth in yards. Contrast that with Vick - where Maclin is top 10 in TDs and top 15 in yards, LeSean is top 20 in receptions, and Jackson isn't far behind. Which receiver on the Patriots is having a season in line with those guys? Welker is not one of the top NFL receivers this year, coming off of ACL surgery and reestablishing himself without Moss. Maybe he turns it on down the stretch - he had a nice game today - but I'd love to see your argument that that statement was "completely inaccurate".
BF, your original post was statistically accurate. However, in the spirit of Thanksgiving and overlooking the condescending tone of GRs reply, he (and others) might have interpreted your op to mean NE doesn't have any good receivers.While it is true that Welker is not back to all pro form and none of the other receivers are at that level. The combination of Welker, Branch and the rookie TEs have thus far proven to be pretty good. (I did not include Tate since he has not proven to be solid)
I get that interpretation of what I said, but what I take issue with is coming out guns ablazin by asking if I'm "capable of making a case for Brady without saying something completely inaccurate". I meant what I said, and it is correct. And the interpretation that Welker is one of the "top receivers" this year, despite coming off ACL injury and having an off year by his standards, is hardly enough to justify his comment.NE_REVIVAL said:
Interesting. When you have some time, can you share why you think Rivers is so far behind Vick and Brady? I think at this point most would agree that SD is the favorite to win their division and Rivers is definately the main reason for that. He's had multiple Rb's, ridiculous starting WR's to throw to yet he's putting up monster numbers and getting some wins. I don't know if you saw the last game they played against Denver but he's virtually a coach out on the field, directing these inexperienced players where to go out on the field after they break the huddle, then making the play work, which is the key.Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but obviously you don't rate Rivers quite as high as most with your big spacing between the top 2 and the 3rd.I'd be more apt to make it look like this:RiversBradyVickAnd I don't mind sharing my opinion on why. I don't think Brady was playing all that well very early on. I think the last month or so he's been rock solid, but for whatever reason I don't think he looked all that good where Rivers was on fire and has pretty much kept up that pace despite some shakey play by their special teams unit.The reason for the small gap between Rivers, Brady and Vick isn't their play in the games they've all played but the amount of games Vick has missed. When you have guys playing as well as Rivers and Brady, when you've missed several games due to injury, it's just too hard to make up that kind of ground IMO. That doesn't mean who's better on a per game basis, but when you look at the year as a whole, I also have to take into account the games he's missed due to injury while the other two were in there playing well for their teams.
But he does have one of the best coaches of all time as his coach and certainly the best coach in today's game. Who gets credit for what you mention above? Is it Bill or Brady?I've read the posts in between in this thread and I think saying what you said as "inaccurate" is a little harsh but having the best coach in the NFL isn't even mentioned and to me has something to do with the success that New England has with these "lesser" players. Tom Brady does a hell of a job in implementing what Coach Belichick wants to get done on the field but I think he has to be mentioned.In fact, if we mention a coach of the year award, I think Coach Belichick needs to be at the top of that list for the exact reasons you mention. So which one is it, Brady the MVP or Coach Belichick the coach of the year for doing more with less or should everything just go to New England players and staff.bostonfred said:
BB doesn't play QB for the Patriots, Brady does. BB is not the OC for the Patriots, Bill O'Brien is. BB is the DC. If you wanted to give any credit to BB for successes the defense has had in the past or present then I would feel much more inclined to accept that than giving him credit for successes the offense, or any particular offensive player, has had or is having.
Rivers is in there, it's called "Other"Rivers
They can both get credit. Brady benefits from having an all-time coach, but Belichick likewise benefits from having an all-time QB.
Don't bother. LHUCKS is a well known Rivers basher, and has been for years. He is not capable of judging Rivers fairly.
I saw some games where Tom Brady didn't play all that well this season. Coming off a great game against one of the worst defenses is always great ammo to fuel a fire but to say that Philip Rivers isn't close in the MVP conversation leads me to believe you haven't watched very many SD games or followed their injury status throughout the season.Then you go on to skew the fact that Rivers is 3rd in his division when the reality of the situation is SD has just as good of a chance if not better to win their division as New England does. If New England doesn't win next Monday night against the Jets, they will be a wild card team as they'll fall 1.5 games back. As far as deep post season home field advantage, this game is absolutely huge for both teams but even bigger for New England since they lost their first game to the Jets. Both Rivers and Brady could either fall behind in the MVP race or take a big step forward after this week.I don't want to hear Tom Brady for MVP with 2 losses to the Jets and a wild card slot. And I've said all along if Rivers doesn't win that division, I don't think he should win MVP either and a loss versus Indy would certainly hurt their chances.
Wrong.The Chargers would be 0-10 and last in the NFL if not for Rivers.Philip Rivers IS "getting it done", moreso than any other player in the league.
5-5 is not "getting it done" for MVP talks.Big chance for OPOY, but he'll have to improve that record quite a bit for MVP talks.
You mean how he lost Moss, Welker is coming back early from ACL injury, Tate has been injured off and on, Edelman can't seem to produce during the regular season, Branch joined the team late after being mediocre in Seattle, and they lost Watson in the offseason and had to replace them with two rookies and an aging Alge Crumpler, while they also had a left tackle hold out, and had massive turnover and injury at running back? It's not like Rivers and Manning are the only ones overcoming injuries and turnover. It's nice that Ajirotutu and Blair White have had big games, but nobody was talking about Tate or Woodhead going into this season, either. Floyd was a mid round fantasy pick. Branch was an undrafted afterthought who joined the team midseason. Sproles was drafted in all but the shallowest leagues. Woodhead wasn't even on an NFL team. Nobody's talking about the turnover for the Pats because Brady has them at 9-2 and Moss overshadowed everything else. But when you look at what Brady's working with, it's remarkably similar to Rivers and Manning.
Let's blindfold him, take away both tackles and his center and see how he does.
??As I have posted earlier I think Rivers is a terrific MVP candidate and I think he has a great chance of winning.However, I want to play devils advocate with your post and turn some of your questions back on you.Doesn't Rivers benefit from having an offensive minded coach? Philip Rivers does a hell of a job of implementing what Turner and Shelmon want to get done on the field, but shouldn't they be mentioned. The Chargers have the top (total yds) defense in the league and clearly one that is better than NEs; yet the Chargers are 5-5, doesn't Rivers get any of the credit for that?Switching topics a little:What about the schedules the 2 teams are playing?NE has already played BAL, SD, NYJ, PIT and still has to play NYJ, GB & CHI.The difference between the 2 teams schedules are like night and day; SD has a cream puff schedule while NE's is one of the hardest in the league (imo).Shouldn't that be taken into consideration?
I would recommend not listening, poking your eardrums with a sharp pencil, or keeping all electronic devices off until the end of the season. Then, see how you feel and call me in the morning.
So you're pretty sure the Patriots have no chance against the Jets then?
I love Roddy, but this isn't even remotely true.
Not sure what Matt Ryan's pole has to do with any of this. :X
I think we have to consider Cutler in this discussion too.
Just stop.
I think you are using the term "turnover" to include player turnover from last season to this season. I think voters are more concerned with what players on this year's roster have missed time. In that sense, what Brady has experienced is not every bit as much as what Rivers has had to deal with.IMO Rivers and Brady are the two leading candidates at this point, and I think it's very close.I wouldn't count Manning out, though. He could easily reel off a great stretch run while helping the Colts win out from here forward. And, like Brady, he is a media favorite, which helps.
Peyton is going to have to do something great to pull it off though.His stock is going down, Ryan, Cutler (yes, he starts getting into the conversation now...but is rather far back yet) and Rodgers can sneak in yet too.Matthews was invisible yesterday and drops down for now.
I say it is absolutely true. Now what?
I actually think that Matt Ryan should be the front-runner right now.Philip Rivers and Aaron Rodgers are both playing great, and they're right there in the mix.Manning and Brady are going in opposite directions. Manning has really hurt his chances over the past couple weeks. Brady still has some catching up to do after a bit of a slow start. But either of those guys could get there by the end of the season.Michael Vick has a few things working against him (fewer starts, dog-fighting), but he's in the conversation as well.I don't think any offensive non-QBs should be in the conversation. But on defense Trent Cole, Tamba Hali, and Kyle Williams would get consideration in a less press-clippings–driven world.
I don't see how anyone could possibly make a rational arguement (love to see your reasoning) that has Matt Ryan way ahead of Brady when Brady is ahead of Ryan in virtually every single category? Granted Brady has a much tougher schedule so it may end up working out that way, but right now it's not really even close.IMO, Rivers and Brady are the clear front runners.Vick, Ryan & Rogers being slightly longer shots.
brady has less yards, 4 more TDs, 1 less INT, less rushing and tied with 0 rushing TDs.
The yardage differential is 12 yards, or slightly more than 1 yard per game. Every other passing category Brady rates higher, and he is leading a team with no marquee player at WR (Wes Welker might be if he were 100%) and one that has a below average defense (31st in total yards and 24.2 ppg) to the highest scoring avg in the league and tied for the best record. Atanta's D, while not world-beaters, is only giving up 19 ppg. Roddy White has been consistently awesome for most of this season. Some of that is Matt Ryan, but mostly it's Roddy becoming a stud WR. Brady just doesn't have one of those. Neither has Rivers, which is why he is also a stronger consideration than Ryan at this point IMO (even though he does have an excellent D).
.... I hope you didn't poke your eardrums too.
I think we have to consider Cutler in this discussion too.
