Why are President Trump's Tax Returns Important? (1 Viewer)

[whoknew]

Mnuchin won't release tax returns

The Latest on President Donald Trump’s tax returns (all times local):

7:10 p.m.

Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin (mih-NOO’-shin) says his department is unable to provide President Donald Trump’s tax returns to Congress by Wednesday’s deadline.

Mnuchin told House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Richard Neal, who made the request a week ago, that Treasury respects congressional oversight but needs more time to review the “unprecedented” request.

Mnuchin said Neal’s request raised important questions of “constitutional scope of congressional investigative authority, the legitimacy of the asserted legislative purpose, and the constitutional rights of American citizens.”

He quoted Capitol Hill Republicans who called the request “Nixonian” and who warned that it could set a precedent for disclosing personal tax information for political purposes.

 

[urbanhack]

He got elected without disclosing them, why does it matter now?  If it bothers you don’t vote for him.   Let’s move on to something that matters.

You voted for Hillary and are a Hillary supporter, correct?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

needs more time to review the “unprecedented” request.

Again, this is a funny way to put things. If they had solid grounds they’d just state them.

 

[whoknew]

Again, this is a funny way to put things. If they had solid grounds they’d just state them.

Yea but they are going to take it to the S.Ct. and they assume that they have 5 votes in the bag for just about anything they want to do there.

 

[zftcg]

Question for those who are opposed to the Democrats subpoenaing Trumps tax returns: Do you think they shouldn't do it, or do you think they don't have the right to do it? To put it another way, now that the request has been made, do you think the IRS should comply?

 

[Opie]

I don't see the distinction you are making between Obama's school transcripts and Donald's tax returns. I suppose the registering as a foreign student would have caused some issues, but as we know he was born in Hawaii.

Did Obama make it a campaign pledge to reveal his student transcripts?

Would anything in his tax returns convince you to vote for him?
Would anything in his tax returns convince me not to vote for him?
If his tax returns were absolutely perfect, would it stop people such as you, from finding something else to grind on?

He has absolutely nothing to gain by releasing his taxes.

This is this just yet another feeble attempt to find a crime that President Trump may have committed.
Why doesn't the Left simply forget about the bloodless coup and simply rise up?

How about trying to put together a platform that gets President Trump voted out of office?  

 

[The General]

Would anything in his tax returns convince you to vote for him?
Would anything in his tax returns convince me not to vote for him?

or...is this just yet another feeble attempt to find a crime that President Trump may have committed?
Why doesn't the Left simply forget about the bloodless coup and simply rise up?

How about trying to put together a platform that gets President Trump voted out of office?  

I think you and I aren’t the best examples to use. We are posting in a politics sub forum on a football website.

Agreed that if his tax returns showed Putin paid him in rubles to smother bald eagles in center field of Yankee Stadium you are still voting for him (Obama somehow did this) and likewise I’m not voting for him.

It may be important for less engaged people. The margins are pretty thin.

 

[Opie]

I think you and I aren’t the best examples to use. We are posting in a politics sub forum on a football website.

Agreed that if his tax returns showed Putin paid him in rubles to smother bald eagles in center field of Yankee Stadium you are still voting for him (Obama somehow did this) and likewise I’m not voting for him.

It may be important for less engaged people. The margins are pretty thin.

No it wouldn't...it would just fade away when he declassified the FISA documents.

Do you really think that President Trump doesn't have a card to play?  Really?

He has absolutely nothing to gain by releasing his taxes.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

He has absolutely nothing to gain by releasing his taxes.

Accept adhering to his constitutional oath.

 

[The General]

No it wouldn't...it would just fade away when he declassified the FISA documents.

Do you really think that President Trump doesn't have a card to play?  Really?

If it would just fade away release them like he said he would. No big deal. We get to see how rich he is and how he gives so much to charity and how he defintely doesn’t benefit from his policies. These are all big pluses for Donald.

Why are you afraid to let people decide? You are able to figure out “fake news”, right? So can everyone else.

 

[Opie]

If it would just fade away release them like he said he would. No big deal. We get to see how rich he is and how he gives so much to charity and how he defintely doesn’t benefit from his policies. These are all big pluses for Donald.

Why are you afraid to let people decide? You are able to figure out “fake news”, right? So can everyone else.

Again...what would he gain if his returns were flawless?

Nothing...nothing at all.

Since no crime has been committed and he is therefore not charged with a crime, and therefore , is not being investigated for committing a crime, he knows that Congress can't get a hold of them...so why not just keep them yelling for them?

Do you think that he's going to let the Left weaponize the IRS....again?

If it's not his returns, they'll simply cry for something else.
Just let them keep harping on this...like shiny keys, all the way through 2020.

 

[zftcg]

He has absolutely nothing to gain by releasing his taxes.

It's not up to Trump at this point. Congress has requested them from the IRS. By law the agency must deliver them.

 

[Opie]

It's not up to Trump at this point. Congress has requested them from the IRS. By law the agency must deliver them.

When did THAT start?

Oh...I see...if a DEMOCRAT Congress subpoenas something, you must give it up.

Where have you been?

Just so you know...Congress is a legislature...not a court.

 

[kwille]

Would anything in his tax returns convince you to vote for him?
Would anything in his tax returns convince me not to vote for him?
If his tax returns were absolutely perfect, would it stop people such as you, from finding something else to grind on?

He has absolutely nothing to gain by releasing his taxes.

This is this just yet another feeble attempt to find a crime that President Trump may have committed.
Why doesn't the Left simply forget about the bloodless coup and simply rise up?

How about trying to put together a platform that gets President Trump voted out of office?  

Again, not just the left, sir.

 

[John Blutarsky]

It's not up to Trump at this point. Congress has requested them from the IRS. By law the agency must deliver them.

I would like to see the link that this is true. 

 

[The General]

Again...what would he gain if his returns were flawless?

Nothing...nothing at all.

Since no crime has been committed and he is therefore not charged with a crime, and therefore , is not being investigated for committing a crime, he knows that Congress can't get a hold of them...so why not just keep them yelling for them?

Do you think that he's going to let the Left weaponize the IRS....again?

If it's not his returns, they'll simply cry for something else.
Just let them keep harping on this...like shiny keys, all the way through 2020.

Accountability. 

Candidate Trump: "I’ve got a lot of cash and a tremendous net worth, far greater than even numbers that you’ve read. Of course I will release my returns if I get the nomination"

 

[NCCommish]

I would like to see the link that this is true. 

It's in the plain language of the tax code.

 

[John Blutarsky]

It's in the plain language of the tax code.

Thanks. I want to learn more about it. Do you have a link? 

 

[The General]

Something of a cross-post - Trump’s sister the federal judge has been forced to retire:

>>Judge Barry had been a co-owner of a shell company — All County Building Supply & Maintenance — created by the family to siphon cash from their father’s empire by marking up purchases already made by his employees, The Times investigation found. Judge Barry, her siblings and a cousin split the markup, free of gift and estate taxes, which at the time were levied at a much higher rate than income taxes.

On a financial disclosure form filed in 1999, Judge Barry noted that her share of the All County profits for the previous 17 months totaled just over $1 million.

The family also used the padded invoices to justify higher rent increases in rent-regulated buildings, artificially inflating the rents of thousands of tenants. Former prosecutors told The Times that if the authorities had discovered at the time how the Trumps were using All County, their actions would have warranted a criminal investigation for defrauding tenants, tax fraud and filing false documents.

Similarly, Judge Barry benefited from the gross undervaluation of her father’s properties when she and her siblings took ownership of them through a trust, sparing them from paying tens of millions of dollars in taxes, The Times found. For years, she attended regular briefings at her brother’s offices in Trump Tower to hear updates on the real estate portfolio and to collect her share of the profits. When the siblings sold off their father’s empire, between 2004 and 2006, her share of the windfall was $182.5 million, The Times found.<<

- NYT.

Well isn't that something.

 

[zftcg]

When did THAT start?

Oh...I see...if a DEMOCRAT Congress subpoenas something, you must give it up.

Where have you been?

Just so you know...Congress is a legislature...not a court.

I would like to see the link that this is true. 

It has been on the books since 1924. Here is the relevant portion:

Disclosure to Committees of Congress

(1)Committee on Ways and Means, Committee on Finance, and Joint Committee on Taxation

Upon written request from the chairman of the Committee on Ways and Means of the House of Representatives, the chairman of the Committee on Finance of the Senate, or the chairman of the Joint Committee on Taxation, the Secretary shall furnish such committee with any return or return information specified in such request, except that any return or return information which can be associated with, or otherwise identify, directly or indirectly, a particular taxpayer shall be furnished to such committee only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.

It's possible that "subpoena" is the wrong word. And I was wrong about the IRS; it's the Treasury Secretary who is required to turn it over. Finally, it seems pretty clear the Administration is planning on fighting this request, so it's always possible they will get a favorable ruling. But the language of the law seems pretty unambiguous.

 

[zftcg]

Just so you know...Congress is a legislature...not a court.

Thank you for your condescension, but you should explain that to the guy who posted this: 

Since no crime has been committed and he is therefore not charged with a crime, and therefore , is not being investigated for committing a crime, he knows that Congress can't get a hold of them...so why not just keep them yelling for them?

As you said, Congress is not a court, so it is completely irrelevant whether Trump has committed a crime or is being investigated for one. Its job is to provide oversight, and the law empowers Congress to view individual tax returns as part of that job.

 

[Ruffrodys05]

But, but, but.....

 

[NCCommish]

Just so you know...Congress is a legislature...not a court.

In the case of Presidential issues that include high crimes and misdemeanors the Congress is the investigative arm and the Senate is the court. Just so you know.

 

[bigbottom]

Something of a cross-post - Trump’s sister the federal judge has been forced to retire:

>>Judge Barry had been a co-owner of a shell company — All County Building Supply & Maintenance — created by the family to siphon cash from their father’s empire by marking up purchases already made by his employees, The Times investigation found. Judge Barry, her siblings and a cousin split the markup, free of gift and estate taxes, which at the time were levied at a much higher rate than income taxes.

On a financial disclosure form filed in 1999, Judge Barry noted that her share of the All County profits for the previous 17 months totaled just over $1 million.

The family also used the padded invoices to justify higher rent increases in rent-regulated buildings, artificially inflating the rents of thousands of tenants. Former prosecutors told The Times that if the authorities had discovered at the time how the Trumps were using All County, their actions would have warranted a criminal investigation for defrauding tenants, tax fraud and filing false documents.

Similarly, Judge Barry benefited from the gross undervaluation of her father’s properties when she and her siblings took ownership of them through a trust, sparing them from paying tens of millions of dollars in taxes, The Times found. For years, she attended regular briefings at her brother’s offices in Trump Tower to hear updates on the real estate portfolio and to collect her share of the profits. When the siblings sold off their father’s empire, between 2004 and 2006, her share of the windfall was $182.5 million, The Times found.<<

- NYT.

This is a family of career criminals. Do you Trump supporters simply not care? 

 

[jonessed]

Question for those who are opposed to the Democrats subpoenaing Trumps tax returns: Do you think they shouldn't do it, or do you think they don't have the right to do it? To put it another way, now that the request has been made, do you think the IRS should comply?

Seems like a legal issue.

 

[jonessed]

It has been on the books since 1924. Here is the relevant portion:

It's possible that "subpoena" is the wrong word. And I was wrong about the IRS; it's the Treasury Secretary who is required to turn it over. Finally, it seems pretty clear the Administration is planning on fighting this request, so it's always possible they will get a favorable ruling. But the language of the law seems pretty unambiguous.

The language is clear.  The issue is whether that law can override the separation of powers.

 

[jon_mx]

Yea but they are going to take it to the S.Ct. and they assume that they have 5 votes in the bag for just about anything they want to do there.

Very ignorant assumption.  

 

[badmojo1006]

Accept adhering to his constitutional oath.

Trump, Constitutional Oath? 

 

[whoknew]

Very ignorant assumption.  

Maybe. But I'm sure that's what they are thinking.

 

[jon_mx]

Thank you for your condescension, but you should explain that to the guy who posted this: 

As you said, Congress is not a court, so it is completely irrelevant whether Trump has committed a crime or is being investigated for one. Its job is to provide oversight, and the law empowers Congress to view individual tax returns as part of that job.

Which law?

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I haven't read the thread, but it's impossible to say why they're important without knowing what's in them.

If there's nothing bad in them, it's important to put to rest the false idea that there may be something bad in them. This kind of transparency is the lifeblood of confidence and trust in government.

If there's something bad in them, it's important to know what.

 

[zftcg]

Which law?

The law that I quoted literally one post above the one you responded to.

 

[Dickies]

This is a family of career criminals. Do you Trump supporters simply not care? 

@The Narrator: They do not.

 

[zftcg]

The language is clear.  The issue is whether that law can override the separation of powers.

Not sure I follow. "Separation of powers" does not mean Congress can't conduct oversight over the executive. In fact, the law was explicitly passed in the aftermath of the Teapot Dome scandal because Congress wanted access to the returns of individuals it was investigating, including the Treasury Secretary (a member of the executive branch):

When the "committee access" provision, as it's known, became law in 1924, Congress had been dealing with taxpayers' information in the Teapot Dome scandal afflicting the Harding administration and in a controversy involving former Treasury Secretary Andrew Mellon. Like Trump, he had served in government while refusing to avoid conflicts of interest by letting go of his holdings.

 

[NCCommish]

This is a family of career criminals. Do you Trump supporters simply not care? 

Sadly they really don't seem to 

 

[jon_mx]

The law that I quoted literally one post above the one you responded to.

You linked to a chapter.  Which specific clause do you believe compels the return to be released?

 

[dkp993]

No it wouldn't...it would just fade away when he declassified the FISA documents.

Do you really think that President Trump doesn't have a card to play?  Really?

He has absolutely nothing to gain by releasing his taxes.

How about we get his tax returns find out if he’s a fruad or not then he releases these declassified documents you’re convinced he has and all the criminals around get exposed. If Trump is clean, awesome.  If not he and all the criminals can go straight to jail and do not pass go.  Boom swamp drained and Trump delivers on a promise.

See this is where all the pro Trump crowd falls off the rails though. If they really wanted what they say they want they would be asking for exactly what I wrote above. Let’s clean it all up top to bottom.  But they don’t, they’re no better than what they rail against, they just want their side to win. 

 

[The General]

I'd like everyone to remember this is all hypothetical...because of the audit and all.

 

[zftcg]

You linked to a chapter.  Which specific clause do you believe compels the return to be released?

Huh? I literally quoted the relevant portion. Try to keep up.

 

[Shula-holic]

I haven't read the thread, but it's impossible to say why they're important without knowing what's in them.

If there's nothing bad in them, it's important to put to rest the false idea that there may be something bad in them. This kind of transparency is the lifeblood of confidence and trust in government.

If there's something bad in them, it's important to know what.

From a CPA's point of view, if I were him and I'd done nothing wrong I wouldn't release them.  He didn't release them last time and it didn't cost him politically.  But I feel it's pretty safe to assume he's got some in depth and likely aggressive tax avoidance strategies going on.  Note, there's a difference in "avoidance" and "evasion".  We all do our best to legally avoid taxation.  But we all know that politically to point these things out and show how he had reduced his effective rate would look bad politically because the population at large isn't that versed on the tax code.  It gives political opponents hundreds upon hundreds of pages to pick items out and make talking points that would require explanation beyond an easy soundbite.  Legally they may get them, I don't know as I'm no tax attorney, but if I were him I'd drag it out and let them focus their efforts there.  I think it's also safe to assume since he is under audit that there's not a case for tax evasion.

 

[jon_mx]

Huh? I literally quoted the relevant portion. Try to keep up.

I was looking at a post which quoted you and did not include the embedded quote. 

 

[whoknew]

From a CPA's point of view, if I were him and I'd done nothing wrong I wouldn't release them.  He didn't release them last time and it didn't cost him politically.  But I feel it's pretty safe to assume he's got some in depth and likely aggressive tax avoidance strategies going on.  Note, there's a difference in "avoidance" and "evasion".  We all do our best to legally avoid taxation.  But we all know that politically to point these things out and show how he had reduced his effective rate would look bad politically because the population at large isn't that versed on the tax code.  It gives political opponents hundreds upon hundreds of pages to pick items out and make talking points that would require explanation beyond an easy soundbite.  Legally they may get them, I don't know as I'm no tax attorney, but if I were him I'd drag it out and let them focus their efforts there.  I think it's also safe to assume since he is under audit that there's not a case for tax evasion.

Is he?

 

[Shula-holic]

Is he?

Is he what?

 

[whoknew]

Is he what?

You wrote that "since he is under audit..."

Is he under audit? Do we know that?

 

[yak651]

You wrote that "since he is under audit..."

Is he under audit? Do we know that?

well he says he is, has he ever lied before?

 

[Shula-holic]

You wrote that "since he is under audit..."

Is he under audit? Do we know that?

I'd assume it's more than likely knowing what we do about his business dealings and also the political environment that would encourage someone at the IRS to leak that he actually isn't if that were the case.  To my point, his best move is to let them keep going down that road and drag his heels at every turn given that not releasing them didn't hurt him last time.

 

[sho nuff]

No it wouldn't...it would just fade away when he declassified the FISA documents.

Do you really think that President Trump doesn't have a card to play?  Really?

He has absolutely nothing to gain by releasing his taxes.

He won’t declassify them.  They don’t say what he wants them to.  He wants the narrative and people pushing it as you are here.  That is the car he has and the value he has in it.

 

[The General]

I'd assume it's more than likely knowing what we do about his business dealings and also the political environment that would encourage someone at the IRS to leak that he actually isn't if that were the case.  To my point, his best move is to let them keep going down that road and drag his heels at every turn given that not releasing them didn't hurt him last time.

He told everyone nonstop that he would release them so maybe people actually thought he would. 

 

[Shula-holic]

He told everyone nonstop that he would release them so maybe people actually thought he would. 

I honestly doubt it in any statistically significant fashion.  If anyone here believed him, speak up.  I don't think left, right, moderate, any of us believed it.  And let's face it, if someone believed that line then they are probably such an ardent Trump supporter that him going back on that statement isn't going to change their view.

 

[The General]

I honestly doubt it in any statistically significant fashion.  If anyone here believed him, speak up.  I don't think left, right, moderate, any of us believed it.  And let's face it, if someone believed that line then they are probably such an ardent Trump supporter that him going back on that statement isn't going to change their view.

To the issue of him lying constantly, I do think it has impact.

People here are political nerds, they are going to vote most are highly partisan (especially when it comes to this guy). Trump only needs to lose a little enthusiasm from the less interested folks and he loses in 2020. This is why Hillary lost.