Why is Eli taking all this flak? (1 Viewer)

[ravnzfan]

If Manning knew he wasn't going to play for the Chargers - he did them a huge favor telling them. Yeah, would most of us willing trade places - of course. But I think it is the armchair QB in all of us that prompts folks to act like being drafted into the NFL is the greatest honor you could ever be bestowed - so great that you shouldn't take any action even if you deem it to be in your best interests (and within the rules).

some one else who gets it! thank you kt, nice knowing there are more than just one or 2 of us that see it this wayit is so easy to kick the players, for all the money they make---Eli made a choice to give up millions by sitting out this year---he only has a certain shelf life as a player in the NFL and made a concious decision to leave alot of money on the table by sitting out---as you said, a team has the right to draft a player and only they can negotiate a deal for the player to join them---the only 'right' a player has in this set up is to give up the bonus and salary for a year and sit, then re-enter the draft the following year

 

[Doug Drinen]

some one else who gets it! thank you kt, nice knowing there are more than just one or 2 of us that see it this way

For what it's worth (i.e. nothing), I'm with you guys too. Nothing else to add.

 

[JAA]

some one else who gets it! thank you kt, nice knowing there are more than just one or 2 of us that see it this wayit is so easy to kick the players, for all the money they make---Eli made a choice to give up millions by sitting out this year---he only has a certain shelf life as a player in the NFL and made a concious decision to leave alot of money on the table by sitting out---as you said, a team has the right to draft a player and only they can negotiate a deal for the player to join them---the only 'right' a player has in this set up is to give up the bonus and salary for a year and sit, then re-enter the draft the following year

Yes, Eli has the choice. His move 'was within the rules', but I think it takes away from the game (if he did infact sit out). The sucky teams need good players, they cant just 'pick and choose', I dont want MLB here in the NFL.Just as Eli chose his route, I chose my route to boo and hiss ... is my right to, as an armchair QB JAAPS - Dont you owe me and my Owens jersey a beer? I got the Green one in case you were wondeing

 

[mbuehner]

JAA is dead on. Lets skip to the bottom line:1.Manning had the legal right to do what he did2.San Diego had every right to blast him for it in the media3.The fans had every right to boo Manning for making a mockery of the whole point of the draft.No one is saying that Manning didnt have the right to do what he did under the rules. Fine. But without a shadow of a doubt he violated the spirit of the rules. San Diego sucks? THATS WHY THEY GET THE FIRST PICK OF THE DRAFT. The ultimate question for football fans should be this, is it better for the game for San Diego to be competitive, or for Eli Manning to be on a 'good team'.Make no mistake, this isnt the last time this is going to happen. This is a new trend. :JoeT:

 

[Ytsrof]

The fact that anyone believes that any player/rookie coming into the league should have the ability to dictate to anyone makes each of you the problem. The fact that any rookie gets paid a dime above a veteran before they even step foot onto the field in and of itself is a joke! If they were compensated for what they do and not what they could do then some of the premadonnas would stop spending so much time reading their press clippings and listening to the voices in their heads (agents) and dedicate more time focusing on proving their worth and earning the right to cash in on a huge payday. My stance is this, a rookie is only valuable on paper since their is no true science that accurately bridges the gap between college ability and NFL success. Therefore, tender the big contract but the payday comes when the player demonstrates the ability to transition from college to pro and thereby becomes successful and is rightfully compensated for his skills. Otherwise, his value remains equal only to that of the paper his name was written on when the commish called the pick on draft day. Performance based compensation keeps players like Manning, who has zilch NFL experience, from putting themselves above and ahead of the sport.

As a sidenote; if a player refuses to play once he is drafted because he does not like the team, coach, owner or water boy he should be made to sit out with no pay and re-enter the draft the following year as a final draft selection and compensated as such.

P.P.S. If Manning flops should the team be entitled to a refund? Would only seem fair; the player wants it on the front end based on potential alone therefore the team should profit on the back end if that potential is never realized.

 

[BoltBacker]

The Chargers went out of their way to make Eli look bad (AND weaken their bargaining position).

How can this myth live on even after the draft? There is only one team that the Chargers could have lost bargaining position with; NYG. I'm pretty sure they didn't lose any bargaining position with the NYG as it turned out. Sorry if this has already been pointed out, I didn't read the entire thread.

 

[ffbsensei]

Well, its nice to know that I'm not the only guy out here with my viewpoint! Out of 56 replies, there are 4 of us!In the end, the Chargers got their deal...perhaps the giants were waiting to see what would happen. I suppose there was a chance that SD not pick Eli...altho its hard imagining he would last until the 4th pick.If the Giants and others in the NFL knew that Eli refused to play for the Chargers, that could have prevented them from getting a good deal. But the way that the Mannings handled the situation after the story broke, makes me think that they were VERY discreet about their unwillingness to play for the Chargers. They didn't want to make them look bad, and they wanted to provide them with an easy out.In the end, I find it surprising to find all of this animus towards Eli and his family. People are not treated equally, they're treated as individuals. Eli has advantages that many of us could only dream of - genetics, financial freedom, one of the best at his position...And for those who portend that the sky is falling, this doesn't happen and will not happen every year. The stars have to align and the pieces of the puzzle have to fit into place. This was one of those years.

 

[BoltBacker]

In the end, I find it surprising to find all of this animus towards Eli and his family.

I agree with this to an extent.Whenever any rookie comes into any sport and acts as though they are entitled to something before they even play in the league it always comes off badly to fans. Steve Francis took a lot of criticism for refusing to go to Vancouver in the NBA for instance. Winslows agent acting as if he should be paid like the #1 pick on the premise any one of the top 6 picks could have gone #1 draws similar criticism. It doesn't bother me as much as it bothers most. If you have salary/team demands it's best to make them BEFORE you sign your name on the dotted line. The guys that actually bother me more are the guys like A-Rod and Scottie Pippen who have a decision to make between winning or $ and make their decision only to cry about it later. Once you've signed the contract I have little sympathy for you, but if you aren't under contract and you choose not to sign(manning or winslow) I say that's your decision. Who are any of us to criticize what you think you are worth or where you should play? The market will ultimately decide if your demands are unreasonable or reasonable.People trying to paint either Eli(and family/agent) OR the Chargers as the "villain" are just being simple. Both are just exercising perfectly good options that they believe will be in their own best interest. That doesn't make either one of them a "villain".

 

[Class Dismissed]

Air Coryell Nailed it.I have read or heard somewhere that Archie Manning was talking with the NY Giants as well....he was able to do this because he was not Eli's agent and was not bound by the NFL rules pertaining to agents.There was nothing discreet about this....the Mannings were playing hardball with the Chargers.....The Giants knew it.....and the Giants thought that they could get Eli without offering ANYTHING. How many mocks did you see that had Oakland or AZ taking a QB?Or they thought that they could force SD out of the top spot by offering up very little.For all of those who thought SD is a poorly run orginazation.....there is a new sherrif in town......and he does not blink....and he just B-F'd legendary NFL man Ernie Arcossi.The Mannings and the Giants came to a High Stakes Poker Game and thought they had a winning hand......The man with Gorilla Gonoads of steel took all their money and then grabbed Eli's lollipop.I'ts not the cards you think you have....it's how you play them.....AJ Smith played them BOLDLY and Brilliantly.

 

[ICON211]

Another thing here is that Archie thought the best fit for Eli was the Giants. Well there were 3 teams ahead of the Giants not just one. Would have been interesting if the Raiders or Cards ended up drafting him. But thank god that didn't happen because I would never want a pretty boy evil Manning on the Raiders. They will never win the big game. Just as it is in their genes to QBs it is also in their genes to be losers at every level. How many times did Peyton beat Tennessee's biggest rival Florida.....0.

 

[ravnzfan]

PS - Dont you owe me and my Owens jersey a beer? I got the Green one in case you were wondeing

the irony of this, JAAManning, in your eyes is an ###-hole, for electing to not report to a team he doesn't want to play for......yet you feel full of yourself for getting the worst 'sportsman' I've seen on the field in the form of TO? With all the whining he did to get to Philly? Ownes refused to report to Baltimore, after a trade, and somehow got his way with a trade to Phillyyou can have that piece of crap...I'll root for Kevin Johnson and be very happy about it, thank you very muchand what's this about a beer?

 

[ravnzfan]

As a sidenote; if a player refuses to play once he is drafted because he does not like the team, coach, owner or water boy he should be made to sit out with no pay and re-enter the draft the following year as a final draft selection and compensated as such.

hey...newsflashthis is EXACTLY what the rules are at this point!

Manning would have turned down MILLIONS to sit this year...his choice

I am not a Manning fan, only a fan of a players right to not report to an organization that is run...at best... with alot of questions, if he so chooses

Elway...JD Drew...Steve Francsis were others before....and yes there will be, and should be others in the future

 

[ShadowMaster]

Well, its nice to know that I'm not the only guy out here with my viewpoint! Out of 56 replies, there are 4 of us!

Ok - so as a group were 52 to 4 in favor of the fact that he is a 'ego punk' that hid behind his daddy and his family's money to leverage his position.That's a huge minority you in there.It comes down to NFL fans recognizing that the NFL systems (draft, FA, revenue sharing, etc) work and are competitive for all teams (when compared to other major sports). Fans take offense at players bucking thie system and throwing off a good balance for their own selfish agenda.Clarrett was viewed as a villian, and Eli will be as well. Heck, his whole family now looks bad and that tag will stick for his CAREER. As good as Elway was, nobody ever forgot how his NFL career started.PS - Wishing bad on someone is NOT childish when it comes to sports. You are allowed to liek and dislike players. Eli is now VERY disliked and most people will enjoy watching him get beat up some to teach him the leasson of how the league is bigger than the Manning clan.

 

[MonkeyButt]

ahhh...anyone notice who SD drafted w/the 3rd round pick acquired from the G-men?How 'bout a freakin Kicker, 1 of 3 drafted out of 250 players...way to go AJ!

Hey, when your roster looks like SD's, I don't think you can knock them for getting any player that is rated at the top of his position.

and you guys continue to bust Manning's ballz for not wanting to play for such a LOSER?

I'm not knocking Eli for not wanting to play for a loser. I'm just pointing out that Eli's new team is not much of an improvement over the situation he would have faced in SD. Plus he now gets to face the NY media on a daily basis!

the only reason a trade never happened earlier was that NYG was not giving up the 2nd this yr, and finally included next yrs 1st insteadCoughlin drafted the father of his grandson...CSneed, G-BC...with the second pick

So the Giants gave up next year's 1st Rd pick because they didn't want to give up their 2nd Rd pick this year because they wanted to select the new coach's son-in-law? Um...I think a 1st and 2nd this year (plus perhaps a mid rounder next year) for the first overall this year is much better than drafting your future son-in-law.

Coach was looking out for his future son-in-law (Sneed dates Coach C's daughter at BC and has a boy w/her)...I don't hear anyone busting Coughlin's chops for looking out for his family

Perhaps Coach will have a different take on things next year if the Giants finish with one of the worst records again.

 

[ttiger72]

You're correct, this is a draft. And it doesn't normally happey, but in certain situations, the player in the enviable position of being the top choice, has some degree of latitude if all of the pieces fall into place.That is, the team drafting first has the ability to pick up a multitude of draft picks and not have to go down too far. Can anyone say that the Chargers were harmed in anyway?Among the various pieces is that the player MUST have options other than playing for the NFL. Most players don't have the luxury of sitting out the year. The Mannings have the good fortune of being able to do that. Giving up a year's salary would be cost prohibitive for many players. Elway signed with the Yankees, Eli had the financial freedom to sit out a year. Better to give up one year's worth of salary then to be put behind a sieve of a offensive line.The fact is, Eli had options that many players didn't have, and all of the pieces fell into place. Everyone came out a winner...I daresay that if many of these posters who are decrying Eli's actions were in a similar situation, AND had similar options, they would do the same thing. Sensei

And the Giants O Line is sooo much better than SD? I don't think so, they both blow and neither one of them has done anything to better the situation IMO.

 

[ttiger72]

As far as Eli goes he is no differnt than any other Elite NFL player. They do what's best for themselves. So give it a break already guys.

Are you freaking kidding me? Eli is no different than any other elite NFL player?? Since when? How many snaps has taken? What's his passer rating? How many TDs has he thrown? What's his W-L record? Yeah that's what I thought he hasn't played a down in the NFL....you give it a break.

 

[3nOut]

Elway Manning:

"Pssst...hey SD.....just fyi....I think you guys suck....and I will not play for you if you draft me.....I have some leverage being able to take a year off and have my father and brother support me with their millions, so I am going to buck the NFL system....even though I say I have alot of respect for it....oh and by the way.....please don't tell anybody and make me and my family look bad....OK..????"

SD:

Uh....ok..we'll just look like idiots and not pick you.....or we will trade you and have everybody wonder why and we won't say anything......hey we passed on Vick too....shouldn't surprise anyone....yeah we should just be quiet instead of honest.....we heard that honesty thing is overrated.......why would we want to tell people what really happened......

Elway Manning:

Thanks guys....thanks for taking one for the team Manning......

Slightly edited for accuracy...PS: I think that Elway Manning was afraid of not having any talent around him, especially any receivers, but I'd personally rather have Tomlinson in the backfield than Barber. And now SD may have the opportunity of selecting Mike Williams in the supplemental draft. My guess is that Elway Manning will be looking back at all of this on a cold Sunday December afternoon in NY thinkiing that he could be enjoying the warm sunshine in SD. Be careful what you ask for Elway...

 

[3nOut]

Archie was just on Mike North on 670 AM in Chicago taking the heat. I will give him this- he has the balls to get on and take the heat.

I heard it too and it didnt change my mind. If Archie had any balls he would have told Elway Manning to be quiet and not not be a baby. Archie said he supports his son's decision. What a cop out. If Elway robbed a bank would Archie have supported his decision. (I know that comparison is a stretch, but its to make a point.) I think Archie made Elway look like a spoiled brat whi has to get what HE wants.

 

[JAA]

the irony of this, JAAManning, in your eyes is an ###-hole, for electing to not report to a team he doesn't want to play for......yet you feel full of yourself for getting the worst 'sportsman' I've seen on the field in the form of TO? With all the whining he did to get to Philly? Ownes refused to report to Baltimore, after a trade, and somehow got his way with a trade to Phillyyou can have that piece of crap...I'll root for Kevin Johnson and be very happy about it, thank you very muchand what's this about a beer?

irony? I dont think soYou Bal fans (I deal with you at work every day) seem to forget that TO had a contract with specific terms. If Bal or SF would have thought for a second the Chief Arbitrator Justice would not have rules in favor of TO, they would have never agreed to the trade. Meaning, TO was right, SF was wrong.Eli was allowed to do what he did. I dont agree with it, that is my opinion. The big difference is the draft is about getting good NFL prospects to the weaker teams and NFL FA is about allowing players to seek market value for their services.Do you think we should get rid of the draft and just have a huge rookie FA Free For All?JAAPS I thought if TO became an EAGLE you owed me a beer

 

[roadkill1292]

Do you think we should get rid of the draft and just have a huge rookie FA Free For All?

Yes.

 

[skbatmen]

You said, "The Chargers went out of their way to make Eli look bad (AND weaken their bargaining position)."What do you think they could have gotten for Manning? Rivers, #1, #3, and #5 seems to show that they didn't 'weaken' their power at all.You said, "And like it or not, they were in a position to dictate where Eli could play."I say this is bad for the league. The Draft serves a purpose. He made a decision and so did the Chargers. In the end, Manning didn't seem to enjoy his draft and the Chargers did.You said, "This could have all been done without the Chargers going public with Eli's request and everybody would have been spared the angst and nobody had to look bad."That may not be true. In fact... we will never know. The look on his faced when they drafted him was priceless!

 

[ffbsensei]

the irony of this, JAAManning, in your eyes is an ###-hole, for electing to not report to a team he doesn't want to play for......yet you feel full of yourself for getting the worst 'sportsman' I've seen on the field in the form of TO? With all the whining he did to get to Philly? Ownes refused to report to Baltimore, after a trade, and somehow got his way with a trade to Phillyyou can have that piece of crap...I'll root for Kevin Johnson and be very happy about it, thank you very muchand what's this about a beer?

irony? I dont think soYou Bal fans (I deal with you at work every day) seem to forget that TO had a contract with specific terms. If Bal or SF would have thought for a second the Chief Arbitrator Justice would not have rules in favor of TO, they would have never agreed to the trade. Meaning, TO was right, SF was wrong.Eli was allowed to do what he did. I dont agree with it, that is my opinion. The big difference is the draft is about getting good NFL prospects to the weaker teams and NFL FA is about allowing players to seek market value for their services.Do you think we should get rid of the draft and just have a huge rookie FA Free For All?JAAPS I thought if TO became an EAGLE you owed me a beer

This is a slight tangent off of the original thread...TO DID have a contract and he missed the deadline.You're right tho, they were probably going to lose the arbitration.The person doing the arbitration was asked whether he was an Eagles fan, I believe he said he wasn't. The funny thing was that I was in Philly on business that weekend and was talking to a corporate lawyer and he said his buddy was the arbiter and was a HUGE Eagles fan.

 

[ffbsensei]

People keep saying that the "look on Eli's face was priceless." I don't get that.He already told them he wasn't going to play for them and was going to sit out. He knew that was a real possibility. He went up there, put the jersey on his chest and waited for the trade.He knew and the Chargers knew there was NO way Eli was going to play for them. It was a matter of leverage and trying to get the Giants to pony up the extra draft pick.This trade won't be effectively evaluated for many years. If Eli is as good as his brother, than the trade is worth it. And then it turns on how well the Chargers can draft players. If they all turn out to be busts...then perhaps the Manning's feeling that leadership is lacking in the organization would be born out as well.

 

[MonkeyButt]

This could have all been done without the Chargers going public with Eli's request and everybody would have been spared the angst and nobody had to look bad.

So how exactly does SD NOT draft Eli #1 and come away not looking bad?Face it, the Mannings put the Chargers in a tight spot and the Chargers just let everybody know it.

 

[ffbsensei]

This could have all been done without the Chargers going public with Eli's request and everybody would have been spared the angst and nobody had to look bad.

So how exactly does SD NOT draft Eli #1 and come away not looking bad?Face it, the Mannings put the Chargers in a tight spot and the Chargers just let everybody know it.

Actually, I believe the Mannings tried not to put the Chargers in a bad spot. They quietly told them of their plan not to sign with the Chargers. Others on this board contend that the Mannings had told others in the inner circles of the NFL that Eli wouldn't sign with them. That doesn't mesh with how they behaved after the story broke.If the Chargers go out and make this trade...it would be in essence the same trade they made that dealt vick to the falcons and picked up Brees as well. Most people probably say the Chargers came out WAY ahead, by moving down 3 spots, getting the QB they REALLY wanted, picking up the 3rd rounder (a PK of all things), and an extra first and 5th next season...A win-win for Eli, Chargers, and the league. Now, I don't know this and I doubt anybody on this particular forum knows, whether the Chargers were getting low-balled by the Giants. And the Chargers felt they needed to go public to protect themselves from backlash from their fans if they didn't choose Eli. We'll never know. The giants could have just been sitting there to see if Eli would fall into their laps...but at the price the giants paid...i doubt they were leaving much to chance. It may have been that the Chargers were asking for WAY too much and the Giants were interested in giving much more than they did...again, we'll never know.So maybe the Chargers did or did not have to go public. I just think Eli is getting a bum rap on this forum from most of the posters.

 

[JAA]

Do you think we should get rid of the draft and just have a huge rookie FA Free For All?

Yes.

lol ... really? How do you see this playing out?

 

[JAA]

the irony of this, JAAManning, in your eyes is an ###-hole, for electing to not report to a team he doesn't want to play for......yet you feel full of yourself for getting the worst 'sportsman' I've seen on the field in the form of TO? With all the whining he did to get to Philly? Ownes refused to report to Baltimore, after a trade, and somehow got his way with a trade to Phillyyou can have that piece of crap...I'll root for Kevin Johnson and be very happy about it, thank you very muchand what's this about a beer?

irony? I dont think soYou Bal fans (I deal with you at work every day) seem to forget that TO had a contract with specific terms. If Bal or SF would have thought for a second the Chief Arbitrator Justice would not have rules in favor of TO, they would have never agreed to the trade. Meaning, TO was right, SF was wrong.Eli was allowed to do what he did. I dont agree with it, that is my opinion. The big difference is the draft is about getting good NFL prospects to the weaker teams and NFL FA is about allowing players to seek market value for their services.Do you think we should get rid of the draft and just have a huge rookie FA Free For All?JAAPS I thought if TO became an EAGLE you owed me a beer

This is a slight tangent off of the original thread...TO DID have a contract and he missed the deadline.You're right tho, they were probably going to lose the arbitration.The person doing the arbitration was asked whether he was an Eagles fan, I believe he said he wasn't. The funny thing was that I was in Philly on business that weekend and was talking to a corporate lawyer and he said his buddy was the arbiter and was a HUGE Eagles fan.

:bitterKoolAid:TOs contract had specific wording in it for his FA declaration dates. The ruleing would have stated the NFL did not have the right to effect TOs contract by changing the dates. Did you follow the case at all?:conspiracy: The arbitrator didnt make a ruling, so what does it matter?

 

[Canuckleheads]

I really don't want to continue the bashing of Ellie, he'll get enough of that from the 'Boys, Eagles and Skins. The reality for Manning and the Giants is a brutal first and perhaps second year. Only time will tell if "baby boy" was worth it, but he'll have to be light years ahead Rivers before you can call it a sucesss.Was SD wrong for exposing the Manning? Not at all. You can't say SD was wrong for excercising their rights and then say it was cool for Ellie to buck the system. Rights are rights no matter who excercises them.Stats will prove that the San Diego line was and is at least %50 better than the Giants. This is the same line that "protected" Collins last year. (Collins got royally screwed in this deal, but that's another story). I feel for Collins, but I am glad that they'll have to throw Manning to the wolves in year one. Defenses will surely test the theory that Ellie doesn't handle pressure well. The thing is they'll seldom have to blitz to accomplish this considering the aformentioned OL. Would you really want your rookie QB to match up against Parcell, Gibbs and Johnson (DC) with that line? Manning bashers will love every minute of it. And can someone please explain to me why the Mannings are considered "football royalty". ARchie never won a playoff game and Peyton will have to do it this year as the salary cap window is closing fast in Indy.

 

[JAA]

This could have all been done without the Chargers going public with Eli's request and everybody would have been spared the angst and nobody had to look bad.

So how exactly does SD NOT draft Eli #1 and come away not looking bad?Face it, the Mannings put the Chargers in a tight spot and the Chargers just let everybody know it.

Actually, I believe the Mannings tried not to put the Chargers in a bad spot. They quietly told them of their plan not to sign with the Chargers. Others on this board contend that the Mannings had told others in the inner circles of the NFL that Eli wouldn't sign with them. That doesn't mesh with how they behaved after the story broke.If the Chargers go out and make this trade...it would be in essence the same trade they made that dealt vick to the falcons and picked up Brees as well. Most people probably say the Chargers came out WAY ahead, by moving down 3 spots, getting the QB they REALLY wanted, picking up the 3rd rounder (a PK of all things), and an extra first and 5th next season...A win-win for Eli, Chargers, and the league. Now, I don't know this and I doubt anybody on this particular forum knows, whether the Chargers were getting low-balled by the Giants. And the Chargers felt they needed to go public to protect themselves from backlash from their fans if they didn't choose Eli. We'll never know. The giants could have just been sitting there to see if Eli would fall into their laps...but at the price the giants paid...i doubt they were leaving much to chance. It may have been that the Chargers were asking for WAY too much and the Giants were interested in giving much more than they did...again, we'll never know.So maybe the Chargers did or did not have to go public. I just think Eli is getting a bum rap on this forum from most of the posters.

Read this to answer your questions

 

[mbuehner]

Accorsi, with 10 minutes left in the period, had an offer he liked on the table with Cleveland to trade the Giants' first-round pick down three spots to the Browns, in exchange for the Browns' seventh overall choice, plus Cleveland's second-rounder. With that pick, the Giants would take Roethlisberger, the cannon-armed passer whose right wing could cut through the overly brisk late-autumn winds at the Meadowlands

If the Giants hadnt known Manning wouldnt be playing in San Diego, this deal might have been done a week ago. Goodbye extra draft picks. You can agree or disagree with the logic, but disclosing Mannings ultimatum demonstrably kept the Giants eyeing him. Actions speak louder than words, San Diego got what they wanted, so I dont understand how you can knock their strategy.

 

[Mystery Achiever]

Read this to answer your questions

I don't think this was really written by King. There is no mention of Starbucks or his daughter's team. Seriously, though, I'm amazed what staying power this manning rage has. I thought it would die down faster after the draft. Don't get me wrong - I am no Manning fan. It's going to be more fun being an Eagles fan living in the NY area now!

 

[sjslacker]

I dont see what the big deal is. Manning told SD he'd rather not play for them. I dont blame him. If I had a choice I wouldnt want to play for SD either. I was listening to Tim Brown co host on a local radio show yesterday and he was asked about the whole Manning situation. He mentioned that once he found out he wasnt going to be the #1 overall pick in the draft (87 I believe) he called the next four teams and told them that he didnt want to go there. Brown said it happens all the time. In this instance it just happenend to go public. Do all you guys hate Brown now as much as you do Manning?

 

[mbuehner]

Telling a team you dont want to play there is a whole world different from telling them you will refuse to play there and will sit out a year instead. It also begs the question whether those other 4 teams wanted him to begin with.

 

[MonkeyButt]

Actually, I believe the Mannings tried not to put the Chargers in a bad spot. They quietly told them of their plan not to sign with the Chargers. Others on this board contend that the Mannings had told others in the inner circles of the NFL that Eli wouldn't sign with them. That doesn't mesh with how they behaved after the story broke.

Look at the situation from the SD side. Several years ago, the Chargers gave up a lot to draft Leaf as their QB of the future. (That didn't go over so well.) A few years ago, they traded away the 1st pick and missed out on getting Vick as their QB of the future. (They ended up with a great RB, but they still have no QB.) A couple of really bad years pass and they are sitting at #1 overall again with another QB of the future staring them in the face. He has the name, the talent and the numbers to back up his status as QB of the Future. However, this QB has stated that he will not play for your organization if you draft him. Do you keep this quite and take somebody else at #1 or trade the pick away? How do you think your fans will react to you passing over the QB of the Future at this point? Or do you just come clean and say that you were informed by the QB of the Future that he will not play for the SD Chargers so please understand if we don't come away from this draft with the QB of the Future. Of course, trading down to #7 and taking either Big Ben or Rivers seemed like to much of a stretch for the Giants to comprehend also. If Ben is still available at #7, take him and you have your QB. If Ben is gone, take Rivers and work a deal with the Chargers using the 2nd Rd pick you got from Cleveland.

 

[JAA]

Read this to answer your questions

I don't think this was really written by King. There is no mention of Starbucks or his daughter's team. Seriously, though, I'm amazed what staying power this manning rage has. I thought it would die down faster after the draft. Don't get me wrong - I am no Manning fan. It's going to be more fun being an Eagles fan living in the NY area now!

Im over it, but I will comment on lies and half-truths.

 

[JAA]

Do all you guys hate Brown now as much as you do Manning?

If Brown would have gone on national television and told that same story, and not given a reason as to why he didnt want to play for those teams ... yes.The Mannings singled out SD ... because they were the only other team that wanted him. Oak, Ari didnt, that is why Accorsi was trying to play hard ball, figuring Eli would drop (.02) when SD didnt have the balls to pick him.

 

[roadkill1292]

Do you think we should get rid of the draft and just have a huge rookie FA Free For All?

Yes.

lol ... really? How do you see this playing out?

GM calls college senior: "Hey, you wanna play for us? Three years, six mill?"Rookie: "Pittsburgh's made me a better offer."GM: "OK, thanks." Dials next player on his list.

 

[JAA]

Do you think we should get rid of the draft and just have a huge rookie FA Free For All?

Yes.

lol ... really? How do you see this playing out?

GM calls college senior: "Hey, you wanna play for us? Three years, six mill?"Rookie: "Pittsburgh's made me a better offer."GM: "OK, thanks." Dials next player on his list.

lol ... this Manning issue was not about money. I cant believe you are so short sighted about this:SD: Hey best rookie prospect #1, how bout the most money a rookie gets?Rookie #1: No, I dont like SD.SD: Hey best rookie prospect #2, how bout the most money a rookie gets?Rookie #2: No, I dont like SD.SD: Hey best rookie prospect #3, how bout the most money a rookie gets?Rookie #3: No, I dont like SD.SD: Hey best rookie prospect #4, how bout the most money a rookie gets?Rookie #4: No, I dont like SD.SD: Hey best rookie prospect #5, how bout the most money a rookie gets?Rookie #5: No, I dont like SD.SD: Hey best rookie prospect #6, how bout the most money a rookie gets?Rookie #6: No, I dont like SD.SD: Hey best rookie prospect #7, how bout the most money a rookie gets?Rookie #7: No, I dont like SD.SD: Hey best rookie prospect #8, how bout the most money a rookie gets?Rookie #8: No, I dont like SD.SD: Hey best rookie prospect #9, how bout the most money a rookie gets?Rookie #9: No, I dont like SD.SD: Hey best rookie prospect #10, how bout the most money a rookie gets?Rookie #10: No, I dont like SD.SD: Hey best rookie prospect #11, how bout the most money a rookie gets?Rookie #11: No, I dont like SD.SD: Hey best rookie prospect #12, how bout the most money a rookie gets?Rookie #12: No, I dont like SD.SD: Hey best rookie prospect #13, how bout the most money a rookie gets?Rookie #13: No, I dont like SD.SD: Hey best rookie prospect #14, how bout the most money a rookie gets?Rookie #14: Uh, you want to draft me first?So, the team that "painfully earned the #1 pick" in the NFL draft because the sucked will continue to suck because no one wants to play for them.Are you a Yankees fan? Ever watched the Clippers?

 

[roadkill1292]

Do you think we should get rid of the draft and just have a huge rookie FA Free For All?

Yes.

lol ... really? How do you see this playing out?

GM calls college senior: "Hey, you wanna play for us? Three years, six mill?"Rookie: "Pittsburgh's made me a better offer."GM: "OK, thanks." Dials next player on his list.

lol ... this Manning issue was not about money. I cant believe you are so short sighted about this:SD: Hey best rookie prospect #1, how bout the most money a rookie gets?Rookie #1: No, I dont like SD.SD: Hey best rookie prospect #2, how bout the most money a rookie gets?Rookie #2: No, I dont like SD.SD: Hey best rookie prospect #3, how bout the most money a rookie gets?Rookie #3: No, I dont like SD.SD: Hey best rookie prospect #4, how bout the most money a rookie gets?Rookie #4: No, I dont like SD.SD: Hey best rookie prospect #5, how bout the most money a rookie gets?Rookie #5: No, I dont like SD.SD: Hey best rookie prospect #6, how bout the most money a rookie gets?Rookie #6: No, I dont like SD.SD: Hey best rookie prospect #7, how bout the most money a rookie gets?Rookie #7: No, I dont like SD.SD: Hey best rookie prospect #8, how bout the most money a rookie gets?Rookie #8: No, I dont like SD.SD: Hey best rookie prospect #9, how bout the most money a rookie gets?Rookie #9: No, I dont like SD.SD: Hey best rookie prospect #10, how bout the most money a rookie gets?Rookie #10: No, I dont like SD.SD: Hey best rookie prospect #11, how bout the most money a rookie gets?Rookie #11: No, I dont like SD.SD: Hey best rookie prospect #12, how bout the most money a rookie gets?Rookie #12: No, I dont like SD.SD: Hey best rookie prospect #13, how bout the most money a rookie gets?Rookie #13: No, I dont like SD.SD: Hey best rookie prospect #14, how bout the most money a rookie gets?Rookie #14: Uh, you want to draft me first?So, the team that "painfully earned the #1 pick" in the NFL draft because the sucked will continue to suck because no one wants to play for them.Are you a Yankees fan? Ever watched the Clippers?

Perhaps SD should make itself a more desireable team to play for.

 

[mbuehner]

Perhaps SD should make itself a more desireable team to play for.

Like by, say, drafting the best quaterback available?

 

[ConstruxBoy]

:rotflmao: I saw that :11: coming from a mile away!

 

[pinequick]

Perhaps SD should make itself a more desireable team to play for.

Like by, say, drafting the best quaterback available?

NO, mbuehner, San Diego can't DO that, because the best quarterback available already told them that he doesn't want to play. . . oh, I get it. Good point. Well, maybe that OG slotted at the #15 spot will upgrade them substantially??

 

[JAA]

Perhaps SD should make itself a more desireable team to play for.

Like by, say, drafting the best quaterback available?

NO, mbuehner, San Diego can't DO that, because the best quarterback available already told them that he doesn't want to play. . . oh, I get it. Good point. Well, maybe that OG slotted at the #15 spot will upgrade them substantially??

:rotflmao:

 

[roadkill1292]

If this is the case, how do bad teams ever sign free agents? Is San Diego such a badly run organization that it can only sign players with whom it has exclusive negotiating rights?It seems that the draft proponents are ignoring the fact of the hard salary cap and the recent history of free agency in the NFL, both of which have been the key ingredients towards maintaining parity on the field. Good teams manage these factors better than others. I think the draft helps parity, too. Just not to the extent that everything would be thrown out of whack if it didn't exist. It's just another couple of hundred free agents in the pool to negotiate with.

 

[JAA]

If this is the case, how do bad teams ever sign free agents? Is San Diego such a badly run organization that it can only sign players with whom it has exclusive negotiating rights?It seems that the draft proponents are ignoring the fact of the hard salary cap and the recent history of free agency in the NFL, both of which have been the key ingredients towards maintaining parity on the field. Good teams manage these factors better than others. I think the draft helps parity, too. Just not to the extent that everything would be thrown out of whack if it didn't exist. It's just another couple of hundred free agents in the pool to negotiate with.

no offense, but I dont get a point from this

 

[pinequick]

If this is the case, how do bad teams ever sign free agents?

See Cincinatti for the past 10 years or so. NOBODY wanted to sign there. Maybe now M. Lewis will turn it around, but you can't say that this would definitely not be a problem. Cincinatti was the paradigm for that problem. . .

 

[ChromeWeasel]

From TMQ: Theres also a GREAT photo of manning holding the Chargers jersey with a constipated look on his face.

Doc, the Chargers Made Me Rich and Famous ... It's So Depressing

The current book by yours truly, The Progress Paradox: Why Life Gets Better While People Feel Worse, concerns in part the wisdom in the Jacques Brel song that asked: "Sons of the rich, sons of the saint, where is the child without complaint?" Even as living standards, lifespan and education levels continue to rise, people keep finding new things to become unhappy about. Really, you should read The Progress Paradox, though it says nothing about football, mega-babes or space aliens. You can buy it here.

That's not a prison uniform, Eli.

I thought of the question "where is the child without complaint?" as I watched Eli Manning hear his name called by the San Diego Chargers on Saturday. Manning walked to the podium as if he was being marched to execution; he took the Bolts cap as if being handed the poison Socrates drank; he looked totally miserable, and he had just been named the No. 1 pick in the NFL draft!

Ten of thousands of football players would have given anything to trade places with Manning, and would have kissed that San Diego cap, TMQ can assure you. Tens of millions -- if not hundreds of millions -- of people would have given anything to experience the moment in the sun Manning was being offered -- wealth, fame, publicity, glory. Yet his response was to feel sorry for himself.

Maybe this tells us Manning is a spoiled brat who can't take it unless everything, every last little thing, goes exactly his way. Maybe Manning's quaking grimace shows that he has no heart, that he was afraid to sign with a weak team and struggle for a few years -- as his brother Peyton did when he gladly accepted the helmet of the Colts, who were weak when they drafted him. Maybe Eli's contorted face meant he was confused by the shower of boos from the New York hometown draftniks at the Garden, since it was unclear whether they were booing him or booing the Giants' failure, at that point, to trade for him.

Or maybe it shows Manning is blinded by dollar signs. From either the Chargers or the Giants, Manning would get about the same initial signing bonus of $15 million or so; but his advertising and marketing income will be much higher in New York City, center of the hype universe, than in San Diego. If he did that whole public self-pity routine because he was thinking a check for $15 million isn't enough, what does that tell you about the modern American insistence on focusing on things to complain about rather than things to feel grateful for?

 

[roadkill1292]

If this is the case, how do bad teams ever sign free agents?

See Cincinatti for the past 10 years or so. NOBODY wanted to sign there. Maybe now M. Lewis will turn it around, but you can't say that this would definitely not be a problem. Cincinatti was the paradigm for that problem. . .

Why was this so? Was it possible that the team's ownership and leadership were terrible? Why should such a poorly run franchise be entitled to first crack at the best college players? And how does this explain how so many other franchises were able to raise their level of play while the Bengals continued to struggle?

 

[roadkill1292]

If this is the case, how do bad teams ever sign free agents? Is San Diego such a badly run organization that it can only sign players with whom it has exclusive negotiating rights?

It seems that the draft proponents are ignoring the fact of the hard salary cap and the recent history of free agency in the NFL, both of which have been the key ingredients towards maintaining parity on the field. Good teams manage these factors better than others.

I think the draft helps parity, too. Just not to the extent that everything would be thrown out of whack if it didn't exist. It's just another couple of hundred free agents in the pool to negotiate with.

no offense, but I dont get a point from this

None taken, I'm probably doing a poor job stating my case.In a nutshell, I don't think the draft is necessary to maintain parity. The hard salary cap does a quite adequate job of policing this. Well-run organizations will be competitive within the boundaries of the cap; poorly-run franchises won't.

To answer an earlier question, I'm not a Yankees fan (Balt. homer). And, yes, I've watched the Clippers but I don't understand the analogy. The NBA does not have nearly as restrictive a cap as the NFL does and Clipper ownership (Don Sterling?) is widely recognized as one of the most inept in all of professional sports. Why should that team succeed on the court?

 

[Air Coryell]

[

If this is the Why should such a poorly run franchise be entitled to first crack at the best college players?

The worst team in the league has the right to draft the best player available. Thats how you make the league balanced. Even in FFB dont you normally work it with the team with the worst record gets first crack at FA? The reason is the same, that you allow the weaker teams to get better. How do you expect SD to try to make it back to playoffs if they can't even draft good players.