Why is Eli taking all this flak? (1 Viewer)

[JAA]

I get your point now. I think what you are missing is that if we let players have the choice on who they want to play for you would be very surprised to find many many many of them would only want to play for the better teams. Money would be ~ equal to each team so the selling point would be a better chance at winning.

 

[GreedoShotFirst]

This is good stuff

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story...=simmons/040428

 

[roadkill1292]

[

If this is the Why should such a poorly run franchise be entitled to first crack at the best college players?

The worst team in the league has the right to draft the best player available. Thats how you make the league balanced. Even in FFB dont you normally work it with the team with the worst record gets first crack at FA? The reason is the same, that you allow the weaker teams to get better. How do you expect SD to try to make it back to playoffs if they can't even draft good players.

In my auction league, being at the bottom of the standings is of no benefit when procuring free agents. We have to bid on those, too. Everybody has the same money to work with, the winner is the owner who manages it best.

The NFL's purpose should be to insure equal opportunity, not equal results.

 

[roadkill1292]

I get your point now. I think what you are missing is that if we let players have the choice on who they want to play for you would be very surprised to find many many many of them would only want to play for the better teams. Money would be ~ equal to each team so the selling point would be a better chance at winning.

If I understand this argument, you are saying that players would take less to play for better teams. Or in cities where other factors come in to play. Which is exactly what happens now in free agency. And I guess that I don't really have a problem with this. While I was hugely entertained by Saturday's draft, I guess that I will remain a little bothered by teams being rewarded for their own ineptitude. The arguments from the draft proponents are powerful and I appreciate them. I just don't agree with the conclusion that a draft is necessary to maintain competitiveness in the league. The salary cap does that nicely IMHO.Back to my Baltimore roots for a moment. We all were bitter around here when Elway said "No way," but, in retrospect, I can't really blame him. You can't imagine how shoddy and mean-spirited the Colts organization was in "Devil Bob's" day. I feel for the Arizona, Cincinnati and San Diego fans because we've been there but it doesn't change my mind about legislating parity through the draft.

 

[mbuehner]

The NFL's purpose should be to insure equal opportunity, not equal results.

True, but that just doesnt happen with free agency. There are other factors. Many players will take less money to play on the team they want to go to. That ensures that a bad franchise like San Diego will have to overpay their FA just to attract them. Players are smart enough to know that good players on bad teams dont get the kind of endorcements and spotlights that good teams and big markets do. Hence you get overpriced ageing stars like Emmitt in Arizona and Bledsoe in Baltimore and Sapp in Oakland where they can be big fish again in small ponds. Did you see TO looking to play in Buffalo or Chicago? He wouldnt even consider it, and not because of their front offices i can assure you. So here is the reality:1.Good players want to play with other good players (TO with McNabb), bad teams dont have as many good players2.FAs will demand more money to play on bad teams. This eats up the salary cap making it harder for the bad team to bring anyone else in.3.Even geography plays a role, Buffalo is never going to get the consideration Atlanta does. Is the University of Miami the best football program in the country? Or does something else attract players there do you think? So the playing field will _never_ be even on that front.There is no doubt that all thing being equal, good players are going to clump together which screws up parity. The draft is the one opportunity for the bad teams to improve on an even footing. If you dont like it and want a pure cutthroat, baseballesque league, well thats not the way things are. I for one am glad. I dont think David Carr would be in Houston right now or Carson Palmer in Cinci if they had their pick of anywhere in the league. I dont want St Louis or New England to become the New York Yankees of football, and I think most NFL fans feel the same way.

 

[ffbsensei]

From TMQ: Theres also a GREAT photo of manning holding the Chargers jersey with a constipated look on his face.

Doc, the Chargers Made Me Rich and Famous ... It's So Depressing

The current book by yours truly, The Progress Paradox: Why Life Gets Better While People Feel Worse, concerns in part the wisdom in the Jacques Brel song that asked: "Sons of the rich, sons of the saint, where is the child without complaint?" Even as living standards, lifespan and education levels continue to rise, people keep finding new things to become unhappy about. Really, you should read The Progress Paradox, though it says nothing about football, mega-babes or space aliens. You can buy it here.

That's not a prison uniform, Eli.

I thought of the question "where is the child without complaint?" as I watched Eli Manning hear his name called by the San Diego Chargers on Saturday. Manning walked to the podium as if he was being marched to execution; he took the Bolts cap as if being handed the poison Socrates drank; he looked totally miserable, and he had just been named the No. 1 pick in the NFL draft!

Ten of thousands of football players would have given anything to trade places with Manning, and would have kissed that San Diego cap, TMQ can assure you. Tens of millions -- if not hundreds of millions -- of people would have given anything to experience the moment in the sun Manning was being offered -- wealth, fame, publicity, glory. Yet his response was to feel sorry for himself.

Maybe this tells us Manning is a spoiled brat who can't take it unless everything, every last little thing, goes exactly his way. Maybe Manning's quaking grimace shows that he has no heart, that he was afraid to sign with a weak team and struggle for a few years -- as his brother Peyton did when he gladly accepted the helmet of the Colts, who were weak when they drafted him. Maybe Eli's contorted face meant he was confused by the shower of boos from the New York hometown draftniks at the Garden, since it was unclear whether they were booing him or booing the Giants' failure, at that point, to trade for him.

Or maybe it shows Manning is blinded by dollar signs. From either the Chargers or the Giants, Manning would get about the same initial signing bonus of $15 million or so; but his advertising and marketing income will be much higher in New York City, center of the hype universe, than in San Diego. If he did that whole public self-pity routine because he was thinking a check for $15 million isn't enough, what does that tell you about the modern American insistence on focusing on things to complain about rather than things to feel grateful for?

My friends ask me why has this thread taken a life of its own. For many, I'd say the majority, you view Eli as a rich spoiled brat who should just be happy he has the gifts and talents that he has that would make him the number one pick and he should happily go to one of the worst run franchises in the NFL.Someone once said, "You don't see the world as it is, but you see the world as you are."

I was down on the Chargers becaue I didn't see the need to go public. Maybe they were getting lowballed, maybe they felt they needed to go public in order to put themselves in the best possible bargaining position. Fine. I can see that point of view and don't fault them for going public because I just don't know all of the discussions going on before hand behind closed doors.

The majority on this forum seem to think that Eli should play for the love and honor of the game and go where he's told. The players, I feel, often get the short end of the stick. They are told to play for the love of the game UNTIL the team has to cut them because of salary cap reasons or give them an injury settlement and usher them out the door BECAUSE its a business. "Sorry, hate to do that to you, but we have to look out for the franchise."

My point is that Eli was looking out for himself and putting himself in what he and his family perceived to be the best possible position. If Eli can go to a better organization (and only time will tell) and he can avoid major injury or play for a better team or in a bigger market...he increases his chances to play a few extra years ($$), make bigger endorsements ($$), bigger pensions ($$). I don't fault ANY player for trying to work within the rules to increase his marketability, health, longevity. If he can stay in the prime of his life, the big dollars will come at the END of his career, not in the beginning.

My point is that people should lay off of Eli, don't criticize him for making the decisions that he has made or NEEDS to make in order to preserve/increase/maintain his value/commodity in the NFL.

Its a business...I think fans mix up sports and business...They judge players and franchises differently and the players often get the short end of the stick.

 

[mbuehner]

My point is that people should lay off of Eli, don't criticize him for making the decisions that he has made or NEEDS to make in order to preserve/increase/maintain his value/commodity in the NFL.

Dude, you admit that Eli is out for his own interests. No question right? The only thing people are condemning him for is selfishness. He puts his own needs above the good of the game and the league, which is exactly what you are saying. Thats the definition of selfishness. Some people think that is a good reason to boo him. You obviously dont. Fine, dont boo him. But you asked why Eli is taking flak. The answer is because a lot of people want their superstars to at least appear unselfish, especially when they are being given one of the greatest opportunities in the world, and have yet to have proved a darn thing. Without the league that opportunity wouldnt exist, yet Manning is doing something right out of the gates detrimental to the league. Thats the answer. If you disagree with it fine, but that's the reason.

 

[gman8343]

My point is that Eli was looking out for himself and putting himself in what he and his family perceived to be the best possible position. If Eli can go to a better organization (and only time will tell) and he can avoid major injury or play for a better team or in a bigger market...he increases his chances to play a few extra years ($$), make bigger endorsements ($$), bigger pensions ($$). I don't fault ANY player for trying to work within the rules to increase his marketability, health, longevity. If he can stay in the prime of his life, the big dollars will come at the END of his career, not in the beginning.My point is that people should lay off of Eli, don't criticize him for making the decisions that he has made or NEEDS to make in order to preserve/increase/maintain his value/commodity in the NFL.Its a business...I think fans mix up sports and business...They judge players and franchises differently and the players often get the short end of the stick.

So then what if the other 9 top picks all said the same thing as Eli and refused to go to the Chargers. Should San Diego fold their franchise?The draft is set up so the WORST team gets the BEST player, theoretically this gives them the chance to improve. If players dictate where they go, then it ruins the integrity of the draft.What would you suggest if the other top picks said no thank you to San Diego?

 

[CobraCmdr]

I'm no Eli fan, but I also don't see the big deal. The Chargers never owned him, they just owned the rights for him to play football in the NFL. He can choose to not sign with them, and the Chargers could have chosen to let his ### sit at home and think about it while all the other rookies played football for millions of dollars."Waaah Waaah!! But what if every player did that?" if every player did that that there are 1000 other athletes out there who would give EVERYTHING for a shot in the NFL in their place. screw em. if they want to sit out then they can sit out, I got 100 other guys waiting to play QB in the NFL.... Eli can go pump gas if he wants to. If he wants to play in the NFL he can play for the chargers..... or whoever the chargers trade his rights to.and they traded them to NY. What's the big deal... Eli made a choice and took a risk and it worked out for him. It didn't damage the integrity of the game... it's a career decision and people make them all the time. If Eli had signed with SD, and been terrible, they would not have hesitated to fire his ### in a heartbeat. Nor should they. They have obligations to the team and the owners and the fans. Eli has obligations too, and he has a right to persue things that are important to him. You don't have to like him personally, but there's nothing wrong with what he did.

 

[ffbsensei]

My point is that people should lay off of Eli, don't criticize him for making the decisions that he has made or NEEDS to make in order to preserve/increase/maintain his value/commodity in the NFL.

Dude, you admit that Eli is out for his own interests. No question right? The only thing people are condemning him for is selfishness. He puts his own needs above the good of the game and the league, which is exactly what you are saying. Thats the definition of selfishness. Some people think that is a good reason to boo him. You obviously dont. Fine, dont boo him. But you asked why Eli is taking flak. The answer is because a lot of people want their superstars to at least appear unselfish, especially when they are being given one of the greatest opportunities in the world, and have yet to have proved a darn thing. Without the league that opportunity wouldnt exist, yet Manning is doing something right out of the gates detrimental to the league. Thats the answer. If you disagree with it fine, but that's the reason.

I always find it interesting when people throw out "integrity", "good of the game," etc...The NFL is a BUSINESS. Do you go up to your boss and "take one for the team?" Hey, Bob's been working hard, give him my raise and my promotion. The league isn't looking after the individual's interest...the team isn't looking out for the individual's interest...the individual is looking out for the individual's interest.

Like I said earlier, he was not "selfish" - he was protecting his own interests. He owes nothing to the game, because its not a game, its his profession.

People keep projecting their own situation onto Eli. Eli will be leaving his own blood, sweat, and body on the field by the end of his career. He may not be able to walk anymore (i.e. Steve Bartkowski). People keep impugning him because he's watching out for his own interest...but he SHOULD be doing that. That's not "selfish" behavior, its not wrong for him to do that.

Another poster said, "What if the first 10 guys didn't want to play with the Chargers?" The Chargers can draft anybody they want, any player has a right to not report/not sign with them...its not like that's a rare occasion. And that's within the players' rights to do that...just as it is the organization's right to draft a player and retain his rights for the year. Now for most people, it doesn't pay to sit out one full year...the teams have that leverage. For a player to give up $4-6 million for a first round pick...there is NO way they could recoup that loss over the course of their ENTIRE NFL career. So players who take this option are FEW and FAR between.

My point is that people are judging Eli to be selfish, but their reasons are that he's "damaged the game", "hundreds of thousands' of players would DIE to be in his position," "The integrity of the game is at stake," etc etc...the fact is Eli is responsible for Eli's future. He took care of that...end of story. He wasn't selfish anymore than franchises looking out for their best interest are selfish.

 

[mbuehner]

Like I said earlier, he was not "selfish" - he was protecting his own interests.

End of conversation.

 

[FairWarning]

What the Chargers to do? Could you see the PR nightmare in SD if they passed on him and let the hated Raiders make that deal at 1.2? Didn't Peyton go into a worse situation than Eli?Not sure why he didn't wan't to go there. The Giants OL isn't any better than the Chargers, and the Chargers have one of the best in Tomlinson. They could have got some WR's through FA.

 

[roadkill1292]

99.9% of the guys drafted don't put teams at ransom. The whole POINT of the draft is to get the better players to the lesser teams. Hard to believe there are people out there that just don't get it.... Sad.

I get the point of the draft very clearly. I just don't agree with it.

 

[roadkill1292]

99.9% of the guys drafted don't put teams at ransom.  The whole POINT of the draft is to get the better players to the lesser teams.  Hard to believe there are people out there that just don't get it....  Sad.   

I get the point of the draft very clearly. I just don't agree with it.

Nothing wrong with that RoadKill. You have an opinion that differs from probably most but you're definately entitled to it. Personally, I like the draft and believe it gives some of the teams that didn't do so well the previous year a little better chance to improve than the better teams. Also don't believe that in every situation a team that finishes with a terrible record comes from a badly run organization (although sometimes this is true). There are too many variables in football to guarantee a winning season - (injuries, contract holdouts, players having down years, strength of schedule). The best run orgainization does not win the Super Bowl every year and the worst run does not finish in the cellar every year. I'd hate to see the NFL go the way of Major League Baseball. I turned my back on that sport years ago and won't come back until the league does something about giving the smaller markets a chance of winning.

Personally, I like the draft, too. I can't imagine any NFL fan NOT enjoying what happened Saturday.And I agree with you that teams who do poorly in the standings are not always poorly-run organizations. I firmly believe that the Steelers in 2003 were an aberration. Their front office is generally sound IMO. You might also say the same thing about the Raiders. But that's a very different situation than the Bengals, Chargers and Cardinals over the past decade or so. Those teams have simply been poorly managed and even the advantage of picking high in the draft year after year was of little consequence.I fully recognize that my opinion here is a minority one. But I'm not advocating for the immediate elimination of the draft, just suggesting that the NFL would not be unduly harmed by said elimination. I appreciate all the discussion so far.

 

[Air Coryell]

99.9% of the guys drafted don't put teams at ransom.   The whole POINT of the draft is to get the better players to the lesser teams.  Hard to believe there are people out there that just don't get it....  Sad.   

I get the point of the draft very clearly. I just don't agree with it.

Nothing wrong with that RoadKill. You have an opinion that differs from probably most but you're definately entitled to it. Personally, I like the draft and believe it gives some of the teams that didn't do so well the previous year a little better chance to improve than the better teams. Also don't believe that in every situation a team that finishes with a terrible record comes from a badly run organization (although sometimes this is true). There are too many variables in football to guarantee a winning season - (injuries, contract holdouts, players having down years, strength of schedule). The best run orgainization does not win the Super Bowl every year and the worst run does not finish in the cellar every year. I'd hate to see the NFL go the way of Major League Baseball. I turned my back on that sport years ago and won't come back until the league does something about giving the smaller markets a chance of winning.

Personally, I like the draft, too. I can't imagine any NFL fan NOT enjoying what happened Saturday.And I agree with you that teams who do poorly in the standings are not always poorly-run organizations. I firmly believe that the Steelers in 2003 were an aberration. Their front office is generally sound IMO. You might also say the same thing about the Raiders. But that's a very different situation than the Bengals, Chargers and Cardinals over the past decade or so. Those teams have simply been poorly managed and even the advantage of picking high in the draft year after year was of little consequence.I fully recognize that my opinion here is a minority one. But I'm not advocating for the immediate elimination of the draft, just suggesting that the NFL would not be unduly harmed by said elimination. I appreciate all the discussion so far.

The Chargers were in the superbowl just 10 years ago. What about teams that have never been to one? Are they worse run than the Chargers? The Bengals after many years look like they might be ready to turn things around, and the Cards to me at least look like they will have a very exciting football team to watch this year. To me that shows that the draft does work these teams are getting better. The Chargers will too. IMO probably faster than the Giants will.

 

[TxBuckeye]

From an editorial on NFL.com:I thought of the question "where is the child without complaint?" as I watched Eli Manning hear his name called by the San Diego Chargers on Saturday. Manning walked to the podium as if he was being marched to execution; he took the Bolts cap as if being handed the poison Socrates drank; he looked totally miserable, and he had just been named the No. 1 pick in the NFL draft! Ten of thousands of football players would have given anything to trade places with Manning, and would have kissed that San Diego cap, TMQ can assure you. Tens of millions -- if not hundreds of millions -- of people would have given anything to experience the moment in the sun Manning was being offered -- wealth, fame, publicity, glory. Yet his response was to feel sorry for himself. Maybe this tells us Manning is a spoiled brat who can't take it unless everything, every last little thing, goes exactly his way. Maybe Manning's quaking grimace shows that he has no heart, that he was afraid to sign with a weak team and struggle for a few years -- as his brother Peyton did when he gladly accepted the helmet of the Colts, who were weak when they drafted him. Maybe Eli's contorted face meant he was confused by the shower of boos from the New York hometown draftniks at the Garden, since it was unclear whether they were booing him or booing the Giants' failure, at that point, to trade for him. Or maybe it shows Manning is blinded by dollar signs. From either the Chargers or the Giants, Manning would get about the same initial signing bonus of $15 million or so; but his advertising and marketing income will be much higher in New York City, center of the hype universe, than in San Diego. If he did that whole public self-pity routine because he was thinking a check for $15 million isn't enough, what does that tell you about the modern American insistence on focusing on things to complain about rather than things to feel grateful for?

 

[enfuego]

E Manning is a punk and I hope he gets sacked 10X a game....every game! After he has a few bad games in NY he'll WISH for the SD media to throw softballs to him...........