Will Warner make the HOF? (1 Viewer)

[MarshallRob]

Robert Allen Griese. . .All-America at Purdue. . .No. 1 draft pick, 1967. . .Poised leader of classic ball-control offense. . . Led Miami to three AFC titles, Super Bowl VII, VIII wins. . . NFL Player of the Year, 1971. . .All-Pro twice, All-AFC three times. . .Played in two AFL All-Star games, six AFC-NFC Pro Bowls. . .Career Stats: 25,092 yards, 192 TDs, 77.1 rating passing; 994 yards, 7 TDs rushing.Griese has one more Super Bowl title, but other than that, that is about it. Warner will pass Griese in yards for certain and perhaps TD's if he stays around a couple more years. Warner's QB rating is far higher.

Was Griese ever a backup for three different teams in three consecutive years when he should have been in the prime of his career?

Warner is basically the Terrell Davis of QBs.

Um, no. TD did it in one specific system, with one of the best QB's of all-time playing in the same backfield. Also, the track record of success as a Denver running back is way higher than the Rams QB or the Cardinals QB.

Is it really? Kurt Warner's QB rating in 1999 was 109.2. Trent Green's QB rating in 2000 was 101.8. Kurt Warner's QB rating in 2001 was 101.4. Marc Bulger's QB rating in 2002 was 101.5. That looks to me suspiciously like a track record of success. Warner's QB rating hasn't cracked 90 since 2002, but Green and Bulger have eclipsed that mark 8 times between them in the same basic system (albeit with a little less talent than the peak Greatest Show On Turf years).As for the track record of success in Denver at RB... Terrell Davis rushed for 2,000 yards. Only one other Denver RB has cracked 1,500- Clinton Portis. Do you want to insinuate that Portis was a product of the system, too? Or are you willing to acknowledge that Portis is a legitimate stud, and that he got legitimately outperformed by a HUGE margin by Davis? Davis outperformed his successors by a far greater level than Warner outperformed his.

Good stuff.While for a brief period of time Warner was about as good a passer as I've ever seen, he just hasn't done what Hall of Fame QB's generally do--have long and productive careers. Nor has he won multiple championships. The only Hall of Fame QB's of the modern era I can think of who served as their teams' primary starter for less than a decade are Roger Staubach and Steve Young. And how do you put Warner in their class? Both Staubach and Young were the most accurate passers of their times, both led their teams to the playoffs year after year, and both had tremendous running ability. Staubach's career was shortened by his four-year service in the Navy (in wartime) while Young played in the USFL and later got stuck behind Joe Montana for a few years before getting his chance. Unlike Warner, when healthy neither ever lost their starting gig once they earned it.

 

[Wildman]

Warner will have to do the improbable to get in:

-Play 3-4 more years and put up elite numbers every year

-Get to a SB again in that span

-Win the SB again

He is a good, but not great QB who has moments of excellence.

 

[Ballstein]

Disclaimer: I am a native Houstonian.

I wonder how much better Moon would have looked throwing to guys like Bruce, Holt, Fitz and Boldin....or with a RB like Faulk. He looked good throwing to Carter as a 40 year old.

Moon made the HOF based on stats, same as Marino. Moon's NFL stats (yardage, TD's, etc) are among the best ever posted.

And as far as the T.Davis comparisons…TD carried Elway to the promised land. It wasn't the other way around.

I think Marino and Elway carried their teams on their backs. Elway finally got some talent in his later years and won. Marino was a warrior. Moon was A great QB, but really never carried his teams. Can you name the biggest memory of Warren Moon? Oh yea, the playoff game where the Bills came back from like 35 pts at half to win. Moon didnt do too much in that 2n half. Was Warner a late comer to the NFL? What age was he?

 

[Wildman]

Disclaimer: I am a native Houstonian.

I wonder how much better Moon would have looked throwing to guys like Bruce, Holt, Fitz and Boldin....or with a RB like Faulk. He looked good throwing to Carter as a 40 year old.

Moon made the HOF based on stats, same as Marino. Moon's NFL stats (yardage, TD's, etc) are among the best ever posted.

And as far as the T.Davis comparisons…TD carried Elway to the promised land. It wasn't the other way around.

I think Marino and Elway carried their teams on their backs. Elway finally got some talent in his later years and won. Marino was a warrior. Moon was A great QB, but really never carried his teams. Can you name the biggest memory of Warren Moon? Oh yea, the playoff game where the Bills came back from like 35 pts at half to win. Moon didnt do too much in that 2n half. Was Warner a late comer to the NFL? What age was he?

Elway was a HOFer before TD. He might have been debated a little more, but what TD did was make him a shoo-in. Warner won't be seriously debated as a HOFer unless he does something no pro QB has ever done before: start his career on fire, go through a huge dry spell with up and down play, and then end it with several excellent years.

 

[T Bell]

Warner is basically the Terrell Davis of QBs.

Um, no. TD did it in one specific system, with one of the best QB's of all-time playing in the same backfield. Also, the track record of success as a Denver running back is way higher than the Rams QB or the Cardinals QB.

Is it really? Kurt Warner's QB rating in 1999 was 109.2. Trent Green's QB rating in 2000 was 101.8. Kurt Warner's QB rating in 2001 was 101.4. Marc Bulger's QB rating in 2002 was 101.5. That looks to me suspiciously like a track record of success. Warner's QB rating hasn't cracked 90 since 2002, but Green and Bulger have eclipsed that mark 8 times between them in the same basic system (albeit with a little less talent than the peak Greatest Show On Turf years).As for the track record of success in Denver at RB... Terrell Davis rushed for 2,000 yards. Only one other Denver RB has cracked 1,500- Clinton Portis. Do you want to insinuate that Portis was a product of the system, too? Or are you willing to acknowledge that Portis is a legitimate stud, and that he got legitimately outperformed by a HUGE margin by Davis? Davis outperformed his successors by a far greater level than Warner outperformed his.

Are you willing to admit that Davis - unlike the other Denver RB's including Portis - was the product of a multiple Super Bowl winning offense led by a HoF QB, or are we just supposed to ignore that when we make that comparison? I don't think that Warner is a HoF'er at this point or really very close to it. The best comparison may be to Gayle Sayers (who I also think shouldn't be in the Hall), though Sayers as you pointed out didn't have his performance closely matched by others on the same team in the same system around the same time.

 

[Team ROFLCOPTERS]

Not even close. He did carry my team to a Super Bowl victory but he doesn't have the numbers or the time put into it.

 

[SSOG]

Warner is basically the Terrell Davis of QBs.

Um, no. TD did it in one specific system, with one of the best QB's of all-time playing in the same backfield. Also, the track record of success as a Denver running back is way higher than the Rams QB or the Cardinals QB.

Is it really? Kurt Warner's QB rating in 1999 was 109.2. Trent Green's QB rating in 2000 was 101.8. Kurt Warner's QB rating in 2001 was 101.4. Marc Bulger's QB rating in 2002 was 101.5. That looks to me suspiciously like a track record of success. Warner's QB rating hasn't cracked 90 since 2002, but Green and Bulger have eclipsed that mark 8 times between them in the same basic system (albeit with a little less talent than the peak Greatest Show On Turf years).As for the track record of success in Denver at RB... Terrell Davis rushed for 2,000 yards. Only one other Denver RB has cracked 1,500- Clinton Portis. Do you want to insinuate that Portis was a product of the system, too? Or are you willing to acknowledge that Portis is a legitimate stud, and that he got legitimately outperformed by a HUGE margin by Davis? Davis outperformed his successors by a far greater level than Warner outperformed his.

Are you willing to admit that Davis - unlike the other Denver RB's including Portis - was the product of a multiple Super Bowl winning offense led by a HoF QB, or are we just supposed to ignore that when we make that comparison? I don't think that Warner is a HoF'er at this point or really very close to it. The best comparison may be to Gayle Sayers (who I also think shouldn't be in the Hall), though Sayers as you pointed out didn't have his performance closely matched by others on the same team in the same system around the same time.

Davis never played with a HoF QB- he played with a QB who would one day make the HoF. Maybe if he'd come on board a few years earlier he could have benefited from playing with a guy who could carry an entire offense on his shoulders, but by the time Davis burst onto the scene, Elway was merely a guy- a very, very good guy, but just a guy nonetheless. 28-32 year old Elway was Joe Montana. 36 year old Elway was Jeff Garcia.Besides, Elway missed three games in 1998. In those games, Davis averaged 20/133/1.33 (@6.75 yards per carry). Was he a product of Bubby Brister in those games?

 

[Bri]

Davis never played with a HoF QB- he played with a QB who would one day make the HoF. Maybe if he'd come on board a few years earlier he could have benefited from playing with a guy who could carry an entire offense on his shoulders, but by the time Davis burst onto the scene, Elway was merely a guy- a very, very good guy, but just a guy nonetheless. 28-32 year old Elway was Joe Montana. 36 year old Elway was Jeff Garcia.Besides, Elway missed three games in 1998. In those games, Davis averaged 20/133/1.33 (@6.75 yards per carry). Was he a product of Bubby Brister in those games?

Bronco love in a Warner thread...gotta love SSOG's homerisms

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

In regards to Warren Moon... since it's the Pro Football Hall of Fame not the NFL Hall of Fame I believe his CFL stats weren't completely discounted.

Excuse my ignorance, but is that true? No player has been enshrined from any other team outside the NFL, so I doubt that the selection committee are considering guys who just played in the CFL. But do they take into consideration pro stats outside of the NFL in the selection process?IMHO, having watched Moon come from behind to tear the heart out of my Argos in the Rain Bowl in '82, capping an incredible career in the CFL with his fifth straight Grey Cup, he deserves a bust just for his performance up north.

 

[SSOG]

Davis never played with a HoF QB- he played with a QB who would one day make the HoF. Maybe if he'd come on board a few years earlier he could have benefited from playing with a guy who could carry an entire offense on his shoulders, but by the time Davis burst onto the scene, Elway was merely a guy- a very, very good guy, but just a guy nonetheless. 28-32 year old Elway was Joe Montana. 36 year old Elway was Jeff Garcia.Besides, Elway missed three games in 1998. In those games, Davis averaged 20/133/1.33 (@6.75 yards per carry). Was he a product of Bubby Brister in those games?

Bronco love in a Warner thread...gotta love SSOG's homerisms

Not Bronco love... discussion of Terrell Davis.Since you obviously seem to just be looking at one post rather than reading the entire thread, let me bring you up to speed. I say that Davis is a good comp for Warner (astronomical peak, no longevity). Someone responds that Denver's system was friendlier than St. Louis's system, so Warner's chances should be better than Davis's. I shoot that notion down. Someone then responds that Terrell Davis played with a HoF QB (as if Warner didn't play with a HoF RB of his own, as well as two potential HoF receivers), and therefore Warner's chances should be better than Davis's. I shoot that one down as well. Net result- Warner's best comp is Terrell Davis, but his chances are lower.Since Terrell Davis is a known quantity (we know exactly what the HoF committee thinks of him, since he's already been up for the vote), creating a comp and then rating his chances against that comp seems like a perfectly valid excercise. I would have brought up Priest Holmes, but (1) I'm not a KC fan so I'm not as familiar with Holmes as with Davis and (2) Holmes hasn't been up for the vote, so even if he's a good comp, he's as much of a mystery as Warner is.You're totally right, though. I wouldn't want my homerisms to show. I'll completely refrain from talking about any Denver Broncos even when said discussion is totally warrented by the thread at hand. P.S. everyone who has brought up Warren Moon, if you used to be Oilers fans or CFL fans, you should cease and desist, or else Officer Bri and the rest of the thread police might show up and frown at you for homerism.

 

[Assani Fisher]

Is there any player in any of the 4 major sports who won 2 MVPs yet did not get into the HOF once they became eligible???

 

[by_the_sea_wannabe]

For several years he may have been the best who ever played. Still, keeping guys like Warner OUT of the HOF gives the Hall of Fame that much more credibility. He is great player who has had a very good career. And very good careers do not land someone in Canton.

Now if he wins the Super Bowl with the Cardnials - he should be a shoe in.

Warren Moon down?

pro football hall of fame down?

 

[Bri]

Davis never played with a HoF QB- he played with a QB who would one day make the HoF. Maybe if he'd come on board a few years earlier he could have benefited from playing with a guy who could carry an entire offense on his shoulders, but by the time Davis burst onto the scene, Elway was merely a guy- a very, very good guy, but just a guy nonetheless. 28-32 year old Elway was Joe Montana. 36 year old Elway was Jeff Garcia.Besides, Elway missed three games in 1998. In those games, Davis averaged 20/133/1.33 (@6.75 yards per carry). Was he a product of Bubby Brister in those games?

Bronco love in a Warner thread...gotta love SSOG's homerisms

Not Bronco love... discussion of Terrell Davis.Since you obviously seem to just be looking at one post rather than reading the entire thread, let me bring you up to speed.

I've been reading. I'm enjoying it is all. Some homers are quite entertaining with their love for their team. You being one of them. You should know by now that I enjoy your posts.

 

[jon_mx]

League MVP's

1938

• Mel Hein, C - NY Giants

1939

• Parker Hall, HB - Cleveland

1940

• Ace Parker, QB - Brooklyn

1941

• Don Hutson, E - Green Bay

1942

• Don Hutson, E - Green Bay

1943

• Sid Luckman, QB - Chicago Bears

1944

• Frank Sinkwich, HB - Detroit

1945

• Bob Waterfield, QB - Cleveland

1946

• (NFL) Bill Dudley, HB - Pittsburgh

• (AAFC) Glenn Dobbs, HB - Brooklyn

1947

• (NFL) No Selection

• (AAFC) Otto Graham, QB - Cleveland

1948

• (NFL) No Selection

• (AAFC) Otto Graham, QB - Cleveland/Frankie Albert, quarterback - San Francisco (tie)

1949

• No Selection

1950

• No Selection

1951

• Otto Graham, QB - Cleveland (United Press)

1952

• No Selection

1953

• Otto Graham, QB - Cleveland (United Press)

1954

• Joe Perry, FB - San Francisco (United Press)

• Lou Groza, OT - Cleveland ("The Sporting News")

1955

• Otto Graham, QB - Cleveland (United Press, "The Sporting News")

• Harlon Hill, E - Chicago Bears (Newspaper Enterprise Association)

1956

• Frank Gifford, HB - NY Giants (United Press, Newspaper Enterprise Association, "The Sporting News")

1957

• Y.A. Tittle, QB - San Francisco (United Press)

• Jim Brown, FB - Cleveland (Associated Press, "The Sporting News")

• John Unitas, QB - Baltimore (Newspaper Enterprise Association)

1958

• Jim Brown, FB - Cleveland (United Press, Associated Press, Newspaper Enterprise Association, "The Sporting News")

1959

• John Unitas, QB - Baltimore (United Press, Maxwell Club of Philadelphia, "The Sporting News")

• Charley Conerly, quarterback - NY Giants (Associated Press, Newspaper Enterprise Association)

1960

(NFL)

• Norm Van Brocklin, QB - Philadelphia (United Press, Associated Press, Newspaper Enterprise Association, "The Sporting News", Maxwell Club of Philadelphia)

• Joe Schmidt, LB - Detroit (United Press- tie)

(AFL)

• Abner Haynes, HB - Dallas Texans (United Press, "The Sporting News")

1961

(NFL)

• Paul Hornung, HB - Green Bay (United Press, Associated Press, "The Sporting News", Maxwell Club of Philadelphia)

• Y.A. Tittle, QB - NY Giants (Newspaper Enterprise Association)

(AFL)

• George Blanda, QB - Houston (United Press, "The Sporting News")

1962

(NFL)

• Y.A. Tittle, QB - NY Giants (United Press, "The Sporting News")

• Jim Taylor, FB - Green Bay (Associated Press, Newspaper Enterprise Association)

• Andy Robustelli, DE - NY Giants (Maxwell Club of Philadelphia)

(AFL)

• Cookie Gilchrist, FB - Buffalo (United Press)

• Len Dawson, QB - Dallas Texans ("The Sporting News")

1963

(NFL)

• Jim Brown, FB - Cleveland (United Press, Newspaper Enterprise Association (tie), Maxwell Club of Philadelphia)

• Y.A. Tittle, QB - NY Giants (Associated Press, Newspaper Enterprise Association (tie), "The Sporting News")

(AFL)

• Lance Alworth, WR - San Diego (United Press)

• Clem Daniels, HB - Oakland ("The Sporting News")

1964

(NFL)

• Johnny Unitas, QB - Baltimore (United Press, Associated Press, "The Sporting News", Maxwell Club of Philadelphia)

• Lenny Moore, HB - Baltimore (Newspaper Enterprise Association)

(AFL)

• Gino Cappelletti, WR - Boston (United Press, "The Sporting News")

1965

(NFL) • Jim Brown, FB - Cleveland (United Press, Associated Press, "The Sporting News", Newspaper Enterprise Association)

• Pete Retzlaff, TE - Philadelphia (Maxwell Club of Philadelphia)

(AFL)

Jack Kemp, QB - Buffalo (United Press)

Paul Lowe, HB - San Diego ("The Sporting News")

1966

(NFL)

• Bart Starr, QB - Green Bay (United Press, Associated Press, Newspaper Enterprise Association, "The Sporting News")

• Don Meredith, QB - Dallas (Maxwell Club of Philadelphia)

(AFL)

• Jim Nance, FB - Boston (United Press, Associated Press, "The Sporting News")

1967

(NFL)

• Johnny Unitas, QB - Baltimore (United Press, Associated Press, Newspaper Enterprise Association, "The Sporting News", Maxwell Club of Philadelphia)

(AFL)

• Daryle Lamonica, QB - Oakland (United Press, Associated Press, "The Sporting News")

1968

(NFL)

• Earl Morrall, QB - Baltimore (United Press, Associated Press, Newspaper Enterprise Association, "The Sporting News", "Pro Football Weekly")

• Leroy Kelly, HB - Cleveland (Maxwell Club of Philadelphia)

(AFL)

• Joe Namath, QB - NY Jets (United Press, "The Sporting News", "Pro Football Weekly")

1969

(NFL)

• Roman Gabriel, QB - LA Rams (United Press, Associated Press, Newspaper Enterprise Association, Maxwell Club of Philadelphia, "The Sporting News", "Pro Football Weekly")

(AFL)

• Daryle Lamonica, QB - Oakland (United Press, "The Sporting News", "Pro Football Weekly")

• Joe Namath, QB - NY Jets (Associated Press)

1970

• John Brodie, QB - San Francisco (Associated Press, Newspaper Enterprise Association)

• George Blanda, QB/K - Oakland (Maxwell Club of Philadelphia)

1971

• Alan Page, DT - Minnesota (Associated Press)

• Bob Griese, QB - Miami (Newspaper Enterprise Association)

• Roger Staubach, QB - Dallas (Maxwell Club of Philadelphia)

1972

• Larry Brown, RB - Washington (Associated Press, Newspaper Enterprise Association, Maxwell Club of Philadelphia)

1973

• O.J. Simpson, RB - Buffalo (Associated Press, Newspaper Enterprise Association, Maxwell Club of Philadelphia)

1974

• Ken Stabler, QB - Oakland (Associated Press, Newspaper Enterprise Association)

• Merlin Olsen, DT - LA Rams (Maxwell Club of Philadelphia)

1975

• Fran Tarkenton, QB - Minnesota (Pro Football Writers of America, Associated Press, Newspaper Enterprise Association, Maxwell Club of Philadelphia)

1976

• Bert Jones, QB - Baltimore (Pro Football Writers of America, Associated Press, Newspaper Enterprise Association)

• Ken Stabler, QB - Oakland (Maxwell Club of Philadelphia)

1977

• Walter Payton, RB Chicago (Pro Football Writers of America, Associated Press, Newspaper Enterprise Association)

• Bob Griese, QB - Miami (Maxwell Club of Philadelphia)

1978

• Earl Campbell, RB - Houston (Pro Football Writers of America, Newspaper Enterprise Association)

• Terry Bradshaw, QB - Pittsburgh (Associated Press, Maxwell Club of Philadelphia)

1979

• Earl Campbell, RB - Houston (Pro Football Writers of America, Associated Press, Newspaper Enterprise Association, Maxwell Club of Philadelphia)

1980

• Brian Sipe, QB - Cleveland (Pro Football Writers of America, Associated Press, "The Sporting News")

• Earl Campbell, RB - Houston (Newspaper Enterprise Association)

• Ron Jaworski, QB - Philadelphia (Maxwell Club of Philadelphia)

1981

• Ken Anderson, QB - Cincinnati (Pro Football Writers of America, Associated Press, Newspaper Enterprise Association, "The Sporting News", Maxwell Club of Philadelphia)

1982

• Dan Fouts, QB - San Diego (Pro Football Writers of America, Newspaper Enterprise Association)

• Mark Moseley, K - Washington (Associated Press, "The Sporting News")

• Joe Theismann, QB - Washington (Maxwell Club of Philadelphia)

1983

• Joe Theismann, QB - Washington (Pro Football Writers Association of America, Associated Press, Newspaper Enterprise Association)

• Eric Dickerson, RB - LA Rams ("The Sporting News")

• John Riggens, RB - Washington (Maxwell Club of Philadelphia)

1984

• Dan Marino, QB - Miami (Pro Football Writers Association of America, Associated Press, Newspaper Enterprise Association, Maxwell Club of Philadelphia, "The Sporting News")

1985

• Marcus Allen, RB - LA Raiders (Pro Football Writers Association of America, Associated Press, "The Sporting News")

• Walter Payton, RB - Chicago Bears (Newspaper Enterprise Association, Maxwell Club of Philadelphia)

1986

• Lawrence Taylor, LB - NY Giants (Pro Football Writers Association of America, Associated Press, Maxwell Club of Philadelphia, "The Sporting News")

• Phil Simms, QB - NY Giants (Newspaper Enterprise Association)

1987

• Jerry Rice, WR - San Francisco (Pro Football Writers Association of America, Newspaper Enterprise Association, Maxwell Club of Philadelphia, "The Sporting News")

• John Elway, QB - Denver (Associated Press)

1988

• Boomer Esiason, QB - Cincinnati (Pro Football Writers Association of America, Associated Press, "The Sporting News")

• Roger Craig, RB - San Francisco (Newspaper Enterprise Association)

• Randall Cunningham, QB - Philadelphia (Maxwell Club of Philadelphia)

1989

• Joe Montana, QB - San Francisco (Pro Football Writers Association of America, Associated Press, Newspaper Enterprise Association, Maxwell Club of Philadelphia, "The Sporting News")

1990

• Randall Cunningham, QB - Philadelphia (Pro Football Writers Association of America)

• Joe Montana, QB - San Francisco (Associated Press)

• Jerry Rice, WR - San Francisco ("The Sporting News")

1991

• Thurman Thomas, RB - Buffalo (Pro Football Writers Association of America, Associated Press, "The Sporting News")

• Barry Sanders, RB - Detroit (Maxwell Club of Philadelphia)

1992

• Steve Young, QB - San Francisco (Pro Football Writers Association of America, Associated Press, Maxwell Club of Philadelphia, "The Sporting News")

1993

• Emmitt Smith, RB - Dallas (Pro Football Writers Association of America, Associated Press, Maxwell Club of Philadelphia, "The Sporting News")

1994

• Steve Young, QB - San Francisco (Pro Football Writers Association of America, Associated Press, Maxwell Club of Philadelphia, "The Sporting News")

1995

• Brett Favre, QB - Green Bay (Pro Football Writers Association of America, Associated Press, Maxwell Club of Philadelphia, "The Sporting News")

1996

• Brett Favre, QB - Green Bay (Pro Football Writers Association of America, Associated Press, Maxwell Club of Philadelphia, "The Sporting News")

1997

• Brett Favre, QB - Green Bay (Associated Press - tie)

• Barry Sanders, RB - Detroit (Pro Football Writers Association of America, Associated Press (tie), Maxwell Club of Philadelphia, "The Sporting News")

1998

• Terrell Davis, RB - Denver (Pro Football Writers Association of America, Associated Press, "The Sporting News")

• Randall Cunningham, QB - Minnesota (Maxwell Club of Philadelphia)

1999

• Kurt Warner, QB - St. Louis Rams (Associated Press, Pro Football Writers Association of America, Maxwell Club of Philadelphia)

2000

• Marshall Faulk, RB - St. Louis Rams (Associated Press, Pro Football Writers Association of America)

• Rich Gannon, QB - Oakland (Maxwell Club of Philadelphia)

2001

• Kurt Warner, QB - St. Louis Rams (Associated Press)

• Marshall Faulk, RB - St. Louis Rams (Pro Football Writers Association of America, Maxwell Club of Philadelphia, "The Sporting News")

2002

• Rich Gannon, QB - Oakland Raiders (Associated Press)

2003

• Peyton Manning, QB - Indianapolis Colts

• Steve McNair, QB - Tennessee Titans (Associated Press - tie)

2004

• Peyton Manning, QB - Indianapolis Colts (Associated Press)

2005

• Shaun Alexander, RB - Seattle Seahawks (Associated Press)

2006

• LaDainian Tomlinson, RB - San Diego Chargers (Associated Press)

2007

• Tom Brady, QB - New England Patriots (Associated Press)

 

[Tau837]

In regards to Warren Moon... since it's the Pro Football Hall of Fame not the NFL Hall of Fame I believe his CFL stats weren't completely discounted.

Excuse my ignorance, but is that true? No player has been enshrined from any other team outside the NFL, so I doubt that the selection committee are considering guys who just played in the CFL. But do they take into consideration pro stats outside of the NFL in the selection process?IMHO, having watched Moon come from behind to tear the heart out of my Argos in the Rain Bowl in '82, capping an incredible career in the CFL with his fifth straight Grey Cup, he deserves a bust just for his performance up north.

This has been debated before on this forum. I do not believe CFL stats are taken into consideration directly. It's possible they are taken into account indirectly, though. For example, in Moon's case, voters could look at his CFL performance and see that it was dominant and realize that he could have had an even more impressive NFL record and give him some marginal credit for that. Regardless, Moon's NFL accomplishments were enough for him to merit induction even if he never played in the CFL.I believe the name of the HOF has to do with the fact that the league has merged with other past leagues, such as the AFL, and includes players from those leagues, since those leagues and their history eventually became part of the NFL and its history. If it were to include all pro football accomplishments, Doug Flutie would make it for his CFL accomplishments, and I'm sure there would be others... but that isn't going to happen.

 

[Tau837]

Davis never played with a HoF QB- he played with a QB who would one day make the HoF. Maybe if he'd come on board a few years earlier he could have benefited from playing with a guy who could carry an entire offense on his shoulders, but by the time Davis burst onto the scene, Elway was merely a guy- a very, very good guy, but just a guy nonetheless. 28-32 year old Elway was Joe Montana. 36 year old Elway was Jeff Garcia.Besides, Elway missed three games in 1998. In those games, Davis averaged 20/133/1.33 (@6.75 yards per carry). Was he a product of Bubby Brister in those games?

Bronco love in a Warner thread...gotta love SSOG's homerisms

Not Bronco love... discussion of Terrell Davis.Since you obviously seem to just be looking at one post rather than reading the entire thread, let me bring you up to speed. I say that Davis is a good comp for Warner (astronomical peak, no longevity). Someone responds that Denver's system was friendlier than St. Louis's system, so Warner's chances should be better than Davis's. I shoot that notion down. Someone then responds that Terrell Davis played with a HoF QB (as if Warner didn't play with a HoF RB of his own, as well as two potential HoF receivers), and therefore Warner's chances should be better than Davis's. I shoot that one down as well. Net result- Warner's best comp is Terrell Davis, but his chances are lower.Since Terrell Davis is a known quantity (we know exactly what the HoF committee thinks of him, since he's already been up for the vote), creating a comp and then rating his chances against that comp seems like a perfectly valid excercise. I would have brought up Priest Holmes, but (1) I'm not a KC fan so I'm not as familiar with Holmes as with Davis and (2) Holmes hasn't been up for the vote, so even if he's a good comp, he's as much of a mystery as Warner is.You're totally right, though. I wouldn't want my homerisms to show. I'll completely refrain from talking about any Denver Broncos even when said discussion is totally warrented by the thread at hand. P.S. everyone who has brought up Warren Moon, if you used to be Oilers fans or CFL fans, you should cease and desist, or else Officer Bri and the rest of the thread police might show up and frown at you for homerism.

Overreact much?

 

[Tau837]

Is there any player in any of the 4 major sports who won 2 MVPs yet did not get into the HOF once they became eligible???

Dale Murphy and Roger Maris came immediately to mind.

 

[SSOG]

Davis never played with a HoF QB- he played with a QB who would one day make the HoF. Maybe if he'd come on board a few years earlier he could have benefited from playing with a guy who could carry an entire offense on his shoulders, but by the time Davis burst onto the scene, Elway was merely a guy- a very, very good guy, but just a guy nonetheless. 28-32 year old Elway was Joe Montana. 36 year old Elway was Jeff Garcia.Besides, Elway missed three games in 1998. In those games, Davis averaged 20/133/1.33 (@6.75 yards per carry). Was he a product of Bubby Brister in those games?

Bronco love in a Warner thread...gotta love SSOG's homerisms

Not Bronco love... discussion of Terrell Davis.Since you obviously seem to just be looking at one post rather than reading the entire thread, let me bring you up to speed.

I've been reading. I'm enjoying it is all. Some homers are quite entertaining with their love for their team. You being one of them. You should know by now that I enjoy your posts.

Sorry about jumping down your throat like that... I've been feeling pretty defensive so far this week.

 

[TommyGilmore]

Is there any player in any of the 4 major sports who won 2 MVPs yet did not get into the HOF once they became eligible???

Dale Murphy and Roger Maris came immediately to mind.

My thoughts exactly. Both those guys peaked in their late 20s and then went downhill fast. Murphy was a power hitter in the pre-steroid era, where 35 HRs could lead the league. I remember when he was stuck on 398 homers at the end of his career and he went to Colorado just to play home games on the off chance that he could push a couple more over the fence.......but it wasn't to be.

 

[Koya]

Really???

 

[oddball]

IF he does make the hall, I bet his wife gives the speech.

 

[bcr8f]

League MVP's• Sid Luckman, QB - Chicago Bears1944

See the Bears can have a good QB. Warner-With the years he missed probably not but I hope he does make it.

 

[Sinrman]

Too short a time at the top, too many down years. I don't think he's that close to being a HOF candidate.From 2002-2006, he topped out at 11 TDs, and was primarily a backup. He had 3 outstanding years to start his career in STL, but 5 years of below starting NFL QB play ( never mind HOF level play ) before having an excellent 2nd half '07.

Yep, exactly why I say no... he would have to have several more years at high production and several more playoff appearances to even be considered, I think...

 

[H.K.]

Warner is >>>Marino

Warner has 2 MVP's and a SB title and came within a hair of winning a 2nd SB title..

Moon has...um...lets see, good stats..same with Marino..

Warner is a LOCK for the HOF , imo..

he has a higher comp percentage ( 5 pts higher) and is nearly 8 pts higher in QB Rating, than Dan Marino.

Not saying Marino is a dog sled, but, Warner deserves his share of props ...the guy is a winner, and an extremely accurate passer..and he's doing it all over again, sans Faulk,Holt, and Co.

Warner was some 13 pts higher in QB Rating than Warren Moon, and some 7 pts higher in completion percentage. Moon is just 102-101 wins/losses,lifetime. Warner is 48-37,while Marino is 147-93. While Marino posted better w/l record as a starter, Warner won 2 championships and 1 SB, and nearly repeated as SB champs.Marino never went back to the big game...

I wonder if anyone has stats on accuracy of deep passes vs. Marino,Elway, etc..

I'm sure Warner is up there with the best of them..

if people are on the fence about Simms getting in , then Warner is a stone-cold-lock..

Marino's career was nothing but taking advantage of a USFL drained league and then compiling stats for the rest of his career when the talent level increased after the USFL folded.

When you look at the quality numbers and not the quantity numbers during their careers, Warner dwarfs Marino:

Cmp% - Advantage Warner

TD% - Advantage Warner

Y/A - Advantage Warner

Y/G - Advantage Warner

Rating - Advantage Warner

The numbers become even more embarassing for Marino in the playoffs:

Marino - LOSER of more games than he won

Warner - Winner of 71% of his playoff games

Marino's number nose dived in the post season, as evidenced by his 77.1 QB rating in the playoffs. Even worse, he tossed 19 picks in the Dolphins 10 playoff losses, thereby eliminating his team from any championship potential.

However, Warner still performed under pressure with a 92.3 QB playoff rating and a whopping 63% completion percentage in the post season.

If Marino ever played like Warner in the playoffs, he'd have a ring.....but he couldn't overcome his deficiencies in the playoffs (intelligence, lack of mobility, performance under pressure, ability to compete against high level competition, etc.).

Anyone who ever played QB would want Warner's career over Marino's. Warner knows what it's like to be the best in the NFL, Marino never will.

Bottom line, if the NFL will put a stat compiler like Marino in the HOF, Warner should definitely get in.

 

[Bri]

no prob ssog

 

[MarshallRob]

Warner is >>>Marino

Warner has 2 MVP's and a SB title and came within a hair of winning a 2nd SB title..

Moon has...um...lets see, good stats..same with Marino..

Warner is a LOCK for the HOF , imo..

he has a higher comp percentage ( 5 pts higher) and is nearly 8 pts higher in QB Rating, than Dan Marino.

Not saying Marino is a dog sled, but, Warner deserves his share of props ...the guy is a winner, and an extremely accurate passer..and he's doing it all over again, sans Faulk,Holt, and Co.

Warner was some 13 pts higher in QB Rating than Warren Moon, and some 7 pts higher in completion percentage. Moon is just 102-101 wins/losses,lifetime. Warner is 48-37,while Marino is 147-93. While Marino posted better w/l record as a starter, Warner won 2 championships and 1 SB, and nearly repeated as SB champs.Marino never went back to the big game...

I wonder if anyone has stats on accuracy of deep passes vs. Marino,Elway, etc..

I'm sure Warner is up there with the best of them..

if people are on the fence about Simms getting in , then Warner is a stone-cold-lock..

Marino's career was nothing but taking advantage of a USFL drained league and then compiling stats for the rest of his career when the talent level increased after the USFL folded.

When you look at the quality numbers and not the quantity numbers during their careers, Warner dwarfs Marino:

Cmp% - Advantage Warner

TD% - Advantage Warner

Y/A - Advantage Warner

Y/G - Advantage Warner

Rating - Advantage Warner

The numbers become even more embarassing for Marino in the playoffs:

Marino - LOSER of more games than he won

Warner - Winner of 71% of his playoff games

Marino's number nose dived in the post season, as evidenced by his 77.1 QB rating in the playoffs. Even worse, he tossed 19 picks in the Dolphins 10 playoff losses, thereby eliminating his team from any championship potential.

However, Warner still performed under pressure with a 92.3 QB playoff rating and a whopping 63% completion percentage in the post season.

If Marino ever played like Warner in the playoffs, he'd have a ring.....but he couldn't overcome his deficiencies in the playoffs (intelligence, lack of mobility, performance under pressure, ability to compete against high level competition, etc.).

Anyone who ever played QB would want Warner's career over Marino's. Warner knows what it's like to be the best in the NFL, Marino never will.

Bottom line, if the NFL will put a stat compiler like Marino in the HOF, Warner should definitely get in.

Let's get a more complete picture of Warner vs. Marino:Fumbles

Warner, 80 in 85 starts

Marino, 110 in 242 starts

Sack %

Warner 6.7%

Marino 3.1%

Int. %

Warner 3.3%

Marino 3.0%

Warner's been a mistake machine his entire career. He lost his starting job because of it. If he's such a winner, why has he only been to the playoffs twice?

 

[H.K.]

Warner is >>>Marino

Warner has 2 MVP's and a SB title and came within a hair of winning a 2nd SB title..

Moon has...um...lets see, good stats..same with Marino..

Warner is a LOCK for the HOF , imo..

he has a higher comp percentage ( 5 pts higher) and is nearly 8 pts higher in QB Rating, than Dan Marino.

Not saying Marino is a dog sled, but, Warner deserves his share of props ...the guy is a winner, and an extremely accurate passer..and he's doing it all over again, sans Faulk,Holt, and Co.

Warner was some 13 pts higher in QB Rating than Warren Moon, and some 7 pts higher in completion percentage. Moon is just 102-101 wins/losses,lifetime. Warner is 48-37,while Marino is 147-93. While Marino posted better w/l record as a starter, Warner won 2 championships and 1 SB, and nearly repeated as SB champs.Marino never went back to the big game...

I wonder if anyone has stats on accuracy of deep passes vs. Marino,Elway, etc..

I'm sure Warner is up there with the best of them..

if people are on the fence about Simms getting in , then Warner is a stone-cold-lock..

Marino's career was nothing but taking advantage of a USFL drained league and then compiling stats for the rest of his career when the talent level increased after the USFL folded.

When you look at the quality numbers and not the quantity numbers during their careers, Warner dwarfs Marino:

Cmp% - Advantage Warner

TD% - Advantage Warner

Y/A - Advantage Warner

Y/G - Advantage Warner

Rating - Advantage Warner

The numbers become even more embarassing for Marino in the playoffs:

Marino - LOSER of more games than he won

Warner - Winner of 71% of his playoff games

Marino's number nose dived in the post season, as evidenced by his 77.1 QB rating in the playoffs. Even worse, he tossed 19 picks in the Dolphins 10 playoff losses, thereby eliminating his team from any championship potential.

However, Warner still performed under pressure with a 92.3 QB playoff rating and a whopping 63% completion percentage in the post season.

If Marino ever played like Warner in the playoffs, he'd have a ring.....but he couldn't overcome his deficiencies in the playoffs (intelligence, lack of mobility, performance under pressure, ability to compete against high level competition, etc.).

Anyone who ever played QB would want Warner's career over Marino's. Warner knows what it's like to be the best in the NFL, Marino never will.

Bottom line, if the NFL will put a stat compiler like Marino in the HOF, Warner should definitely get in.

Let's get a more complete picture of Warner vs. Marino:Fumbles

Warner, 80 in 85 starts

Marino, 110 in 242 starts

Sack %

Warner 6.7%

Marino 3.1%

Int. %

Warner 3.3%

Marino 3.0%

Excellent examples of Warner not having the OL talent around him that Marino benefitted from, and how the Martz system has proven to be extremely brutal on QB's. However, despite all that, Warner's INT % is still very similar to Marino.

Of course, Marino's 0.29 YPC rushing is another stat dwarfed by Warner, too.

Your assistance (while not necessary as it relates to simply more ) is appreciated!

 

[Koya]

Lotta talk here without ANY context as to how the game has changed in the last 10 years and in the last 30 years.

Seeing comparisons to Marino mean nothing without that context.

When you then go back to the 70's, with the true greats who are in the hall, their passing stats look PATHETIC compared to Warner.

That doesnt mean Warner is a better QB than they were.

Frustrating when people start just pulling out stats in a game where stats alone mean so little, and without context mean next to nothing.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Is it really? Kurt Warner's QB rating in 1999 was 109.2. Trent Green's QB rating in 2000 was 101.8. Kurt Warner's QB rating in 2001 was 101.4. Marc Bulger's QB rating in 2002 was 101.5. That looks to me suspiciously like a track record of success.

Using Green's QB rating for '00 is a tad misleading, as he was not the starter that year; Warner was. Green had a slightly higher QB rating, and a better TD-INT ratio, but it is no secret that the overall effectiveness of the Rams offense went down as soon as Warner got hurt. The Rams were scoring 44 points a game before Warner got hurt. In the five games Green started, the Rams averaged 28 points a game. Not surprisingly, the Rams went 2-3 with Green as the starter. What is even more funny is that, despite playing in only 5 1/2 games, as opposed to Warner's 10 1/2, Green was sacked four more times than Warner. In other words, I would not say that Warner was a product of the system. Like you correctly stated that no other Denver RB has put up 2,000 like Terrell Davis has, none of those other Rams QBs have put up 41 TDs in a season. In fact, none have even put up 30. And Marc Bulger has never thrown more than 24 TD passes in a season, which is well below Warner's '99 and '01 totals of 41 and 36. And to go even further with it, Warner threw more TDs as a part-time player on a different team, and in a different sytem, last year than Bulger has EVER thrown in a season (and Green has only equaled it once). Translation: Warner's three-year stretch from '99-'01 is one of the best by any QB ever (98 TD passes, two regular season MVPs, two Super Bowl appearances, one Super Bowl win, and one Super Bowl MVP award), so if he can put another very good season or two together, I think he will have enough overall greatness to overcome the lack of consistent longevity. But he probably needs to get to over 200 TD passes (he is at 156 right now), which might be difficult, given his age and his inability to not get hit often and, thus, hurt.

 

[Sinrman]

I view Warner much like Terrell Davis and even Priest Holmes. A few incredible years, and then done. I don't see any of them making the HOF, despite all three having at least one Super Bowl ring...

 

[kaa]

I've asked this question before and started my own Warner for HOF thread in the past: LINK

Historically speaking, many of the already inducted QBs have spanned very lengthy and productive careers. Warner's candidacy really revolves around two exemplary years. Take those away and what do you really have? Here's what I started that other thread with:

HIGHLIGHTS:

- Poster Boy for "rags to riches" story and one for the ages. Can easily see his story as a future Disney movie.

- All-time leader in yards per attempt (8.21).

- All-time leader in completion percentage (65.6).

- Third highest all-time passer rating (93.8) behind only Steve Young and Peyton Manning.

- Two-time League MVP and one-time Super Bowl MVP.

- Teamed with Trent Green to set single season team passing record (5,232 yards in 2000).

- Second most passing yards in a season (4,830).

- Fourth most passing TD in a season (41).

- Most and second most yards passing in a Super Bowl.

LOWLIGHTS:

- While he went "rags to riches" he also went "riches to rags."

- Only played in 80 games.

- Lost starting job in STL, NYG, and ARI.

- A zillion fumbles/interceptions in recent years.

- He's turned the ball over 133 times in 96 games.

- Hasn't done much since 2001.

- Only played in two full seasons.

- Only three seasons with over 3,000 passing yards or 20 TD passes.

- Not in the All-Time Top 50 in any other major passing category.

Remember, it's the Hall of FAME, and not just the Hall of CAREER STATISTICS. Has Warner done enough to get in?

Technically, HALL OF FAME means "famous". HALL OF THE BEST PLAYERS EVER is what you're striving for.

 

[slayer666]

Warner isn't HOF material. Not even close.

 

[T Bell]

Davis never played with a HoF QB- he played with a QB who would one day make the HoF. Maybe if he'd come on board a few years earlier he could have benefited from playing with a guy who could carry an entire offense on his shoulders, but by the time Davis burst onto the scene, Elway was merely a guy- a very, very good guy, but just a guy nonetheless. 28-32 year old Elway was Joe Montana. 36 year old Elway was Jeff Garcia.Besides, Elway missed three games in 1998. In those games, Davis averaged 20/133/1.33 (@6.75 yards per carry). Was he a product of Bubby Brister in those games?

Bronco love in a Warner thread...gotta love SSOG's homerisms

Not Bronco love... discussion of Terrell Davis.Since you obviously seem to just be looking at one post rather than reading the entire thread, let me bring you up to speed.

I've been reading. I'm enjoying it is all. Some homers are quite entertaining with their love for their team. You being one of them. You should know by now that I enjoy your posts.

Sorry about jumping down your throat like that... I've been feeling pretty defensive so far this week. :(

It's all good. That's the first sign of defense any of us have seen out of the Broncos this year.

 

[SSOG]

It's all good. That's the first sign of defense any of us have seen out of the Broncos this year.

Tatum Bell, is this just a ploy to motivate... Mike Shanahan?

 

[twcsux]

For several years he may have been the best who ever played. Still, keeping guys like Warner OUT of the HOF gives the Hall of Fame that much more credibility. He is great player who has had a very good career. And very good careers do not land someone in Canton.

Now if he wins the Super Bowl with the Cardnials - he should be a shoe in.

It's not even close. A couple of good years. "several years he may have been the best who ever played". That's just a ridiculous statement. Even calling the guy a great player is laughable. A couple of good season does not a great player make. Dilfer has a ringThe dude has only played 16 games twice and 12 or more only 3 times in his career. One of his two "great years" was damn near matched by that hall of famer Steve Beuerlein .

95 games played 156 td passes, 3 rushing tds, 100 picks, 80 fumbles, 33 of which he lost. That is 159 tds to 133 turnovers. Not counting this year he has 4 seasons where he had more tds than turnovers, 1 of those seasons he had 2 more tds than turnovers and 1 season he had 5 more tds than tos, not exactly HOF stuff.

I like the guy, great story, bagboy has a couple good years and wins the superbowl, he doesn't belong in the Hall.

sorry he aint gettin in, and it won't be close.

 

[Floyd The Barber]

Disclaimer: I am a native Houstonian.

I wonder how much better Moon would have looked throwing to guys like Bruce, Holt, Fitz and Boldin....or with a RB like Faulk. He looked good throwing to Carter as a 40 year old.

Moon made the HOF based on stats, same as Marino. Moon's NFL stats (yardage, TD's, etc) are among the best ever posted.

And as far as the T.Davis comparisons…TD carried Elway to the promised land. It wasn't the other way around.

I think Marino and Elway carried their teams on their backs. Elway finally got some talent in his later years and won. Marino was a warrior. Moon was A great QB, but really never carried his teams. Can you name the biggest memory of Warren Moon? Oh yea, the playoff game where the Bills came back from like 35 pts at half to win. Moon didnt do too much in that 2n half. Was Warner a late comer to the NFL? What age was he?

Elway was a HOFer before TD. He might have been debated a little more, but what TD did was make him a shoo-in. Warner won't be seriously debated as a HOFer unless he does something no pro QB has ever done before: start his career on fire, go through a huge dry spell with up and down play, and then end it with several excellent years.

Two mitigating circumstances not being mentioned are Warner's injuries (hence the dry spell) and Warner's character.IF Warner can go on a late career run, his outstanding character and genuine humanity is what could get him in.

 

[Super King]

Are we talking about the fumble machine that is Kurt Warner?

80 fumbles in 95 career games.

No way.

 

[Liquid Tension]

2 MVP's, Super Bowl Ring, 93 career passer rating. I think right now his resume is just a bit light.But if he can stay healthy the rest of the year and perform at the level he has the first two games, he has a legitimate shot at a 3rd MVP, which would make it awfully hard to turn him down.Thoughts?

In general the answer is no, but IF he gets his 3rd MVP as you state, then he has a legitimate chance if he can play well a few more years.

 

[JAA]

Ring: check

MVP: check

stats: check

good story line: check

 

[kaa]

I will say that Kurt Warner circa 1999-2001 was the greatest quarterback I've ever seen play. I have never seen a QB more consistently not just find the open man with his passes, but drop them in to the receiver so they hit in perfect stride. How many times did I see Kurt Warner hit Faulk or Holt where they didn't even have to reach back or jump up for the football. They barely moved their arms and the ball was right there. They didn't have to break stride.

 

[cgh3rd]

Warner is >>>Marino

Warner has 2 MVP's and a SB title and came within a hair of winning a 2nd SB title..

Moon has...um...lets see, good stats..same with Marino..

Warner is a LOCK for the HOF , imo..

he has a higher comp percentage ( 5 pts higher) and is nearly 8 pts higher in QB Rating, than Dan Marino.

Not saying Marino is a dog sled, but, Warner deserves his share of props ...the guy is a winner, and an extremely accurate passer..and he's doing it all over again, sans Faulk,Holt, and Co.

Warner was some 13 pts higher in QB Rating than Warren Moon, and some 7 pts higher in completion percentage. Moon is just 102-101 wins/losses,lifetime. Warner is 48-37,while Marino is 147-93. While Marino posted better w/l record as a starter, Warner won 2 championships and 1 SB, and nearly repeated as SB champs.Marino never went back to the big game...

I wonder if anyone has stats on accuracy of deep passes vs. Marino,Elway, etc..

I'm sure Warner is up there with the best of them..

if people are on the fence about Simms getting in , then Warner is a stone-cold-lock..

Marino's career was nothing but taking advantage of a USFL drained league and then compiling stats for the rest of his career when the talent level increased after the USFL folded.

When you look at the quality numbers and not the quantity numbers during their careers, Warner dwarfs Marino:

Cmp% - Advantage Warner

TD% - Advantage Warner

Y/A - Advantage Warner

Y/G - Advantage Warner

Rating - Advantage Warner

The numbers become even more embarassing for Marino in the playoffs:

Marino - LOSER of more games than he won

Warner - Winner of 71% of his playoff games

Marino's number nose dived in the post season, as evidenced by his 77.1 QB rating in the playoffs. Even worse, he tossed 19 picks in the Dolphins 10 playoff losses, thereby eliminating his team from any championship potential.

However, Warner still performed under pressure with a 92.3 QB playoff rating and a whopping 63% completion percentage in the post season.

If Marino ever played like Warner in the playoffs, he'd have a ring.....but he couldn't overcome his deficiencies in the playoffs (intelligence, lack of mobility, performance under pressure, ability to compete against high level competition, etc.).

Anyone who ever played QB would want Warner's career over Marino's. Warner knows what it's like to be the best in the NFL, Marino never will.

Bottom line, if the NFL will put a stat compiler like Marino in the HOF, Warner should definitely get in.

Let's get a more complete picture of Warner vs. Marino:Fumbles

Warner, 80 in 85 starts

Marino, 110 in 242 starts

Sack %

Warner 6.7%

Marino 3.1%

Int. %

Warner 3.3%

Marino 3.0%

Warner's been a mistake machine his entire career. He lost his starting job because of it. If he's such a winner, why has he only been to the playoffs twice?

He actually lost his job because he was injury prone and Bulger was playing well. At the time there were some serious indications that he had developed arthritis in his throwing hand because of the fractures. I also believe he has been to the playoffs 3 times.If he wins the Super Bowl with the Cardinals he would have a pretty good shot at the HOF. How many starting QBs have won the SB with two different teams? I can't think of any?

 

[moleculo]

bump

 

[Native]

The stat tonight was amazing: Warner has thrown for 300+ yards in 45% of his career games. The QB with the next highest percentage is Dan Fouts with 28%. Simply incredible.

 

[Shlon]

The stat tonight was amazing: Warner has thrown for 300+ yards in 45% of his career games. The QB with the next highest percentage is Dan Fouts with 28%. Simply incredible.

I also believe he has the highest Yards Per Game Average for any QB (just above peyton manning). 2nd all time in career completion % (probably will be 1st by the end of the season). 3rd all time in career QB Rating.

 

[Native]

The stat tonight was amazing: Warner has thrown for 300+ yards in 45% of his career games. The QB with the next highest percentage is Dan Fouts with 28%. Simply incredible.

I also believe he has the highest Yards Per Game Average for any QB (just above peyton manning). 2nd all time in career completion % (probably will be 1st by the end of the season). 3rd all time in career QB Rating.

Im rooting for the Cards and Warner this year.

 

[Koya]

2 MVP's, Super Bowl Ring, 93 career passer rating. I think right now his resume is just a bit light.But if he can stay healthy the rest of the year and perform at the level he has the first two games, he has a legitimate shot at a 3rd MVP, which would make it awfully hard to turn him down.Thoughts?

In general the answer is no, but IF he gets his 3rd MVP as you state, then he has a legitimate chance if he can play well a few more years.

Beginning of the year I was thinking no way, no chance. A couple star blessed years but not nearly enough overall, and lets face it, while a guy helps make a system, that was one hell of a system with unreal talent including a top 7 all time RB with the Rams.If he wins a THIRD MVP though? How do you not give him very very hard consideration, if not put him in at that point. How many three time MVPs ARE there even?I just did not think we would ever see anything close to that great Warner again. Here with the Giants (FAR lesser team than the Rams at the time) he was below average. Not even average. I didnt see a HOF season in him, but he is having just that... if he gets an MVP this year and has one more season like this, I couldnt keep him out.

 

[Shlon]

2 MVP's, Super Bowl Ring, 93 career passer rating. I think right now his resume is just a bit light.But if he can stay healthy the rest of the year and perform at the level he has the first two games, he has a legitimate shot at a 3rd MVP, which would make it awfully hard to turn him down.Thoughts?

In general the answer is no, but IF he gets his 3rd MVP as you state, then he has a legitimate chance if he can play well a few more years.

Beginning of the year I was thinking no way, no chance. A couple star blessed years but not nearly enough overall, and lets face it, while a guy helps make a system, that was one hell of a system with unreal talent including a top 7 all time RB with the Rams.If he wins a THIRD MVP though? How do you not give him very very hard consideration, if not put him in at that point. How many three time MVPs ARE there even?I just did not think we would ever see anything close to that great Warner again. Here with the Giants (FAR lesser team than the Rams at the time) he was below average. Not even average. I didnt see a HOF season in him, but he is having just that... if he gets an MVP this year and has one more season like this, I couldnt keep him out.

I Believe Brett Favre is the only one with 3 MVP's (3 consecutive), maybe Jim Brown and Johnny Unitas have 3 AP MVP's as well. Joe Montana, Steve Young, and Peyton Manning are the only other multiple winners.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

3 time MVP should automitically put you into the HOF. I mean for 3 years you were considered the very best player in the game. That is elite status and therefore hof material.

 

[CrossEyed]

Looking at some of his numbers that they talked about tonight, no way Warner is denied the HOF.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Right now, he is probably the favorite to win the MVP this year, and if that happens, how do you keep a guy with three MVP awards out of the Hall of Fame?