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World War I books from a different perspective (2 Viewers)

mr. furley said:
in the bibliography Keegan mentions that there was no "official" accounting of the war by the Turkish gov't. does that mean there are no books out? not just gov't documents.. but books written by that nations historians? at least accurate accountings?i also see that they fought a 4 year war with Greece that spun off of WWI. i'd be interested in that. anyone got a recommendation?
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bump
 
Tower of London’s stunning poppy installation creates national sensationLONDON -- Standing in the Tower of London moat alongside three generations of his family, David Woodrow stared out at a sea of red ceramic poppies and struggled to hold back the tears.

The poppy exhibition at the Tower of London has become a national sensation, with some 4 million people expected to have seen it by the time the last of the 888,246 poppies -- one for every Commonwealth soldier who died in the First World War -- is planted on Nov. 11, the day the war ended in 1918. The throngs of onlookers were so thick this past weekend that organizers asked visitors to postpone their trip.

While the Great War is not on the minds of many Americans, here it remains profoundly relevant. The government has pledged $80 million for four years of events to commemorate the centenary. There have already been numerous official and non-official events -- new books, plays, museum exhibitions, a massive “lights out” event -- but the popularity of the “Blood Swept Lands And Seas of Red” poppy installation stands out.
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/11/07/tower-of-londons-stunning-poppy-installation-creates-national-sensation/

Interesting phenomena going on in London as the sea of red outside the Tower of London revives interest and passion in the sacrifice involved in the Great War.

 
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The word "sacrifice" implies that those British soldiers gave their lives to win freedom for their country. They didn't. They died stupidly for no purpose, because of stupid generals.

 
timschochet said:
The word "sacrifice" implies that those British soldiers gave their lives to win freedom for their country. They didn't. They died stupidly for no purpose, because of stupid generals.
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That picture of Queen Elizabeth walking through the sea of red is really the height of irony considering it was her extended family and her great-great-grandmother who created the circumstances for that river of blood.

That it surrounds the Tower of London is more symbolism.

 
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The WWI centennial has produced some interesting reassessments of the conflict. For Armistice Day, i watched Niall Ferguson's "The Pity of War" on YouTube. It's an 80 minute long BBC companion to Ferguson's book.

Ferguson can come off as both a prat and a windbag but he's nothing if not a provocative thinker. His thesis is that Great Britain was the country most responsible for escalating the war and should carry much of the blame for its consequences. His Anglocentric worldview is presented persuasively with images, charts and technology and stuff. Towards the end he turns the show over to a panel of more specialized historians who politely blow Ferguson's argument to bits.

It's much better television than it sounds although it's hurt a bit by a bizarre letterboxing decision.made by the guy who uploaded it. Highly recommended if you watch it critically.

 
If you have Amazon Prime, Cambridge professor David Reynolds' excellent three-part BBC2 series "The Long Shadow" is available for streaming. Rather than examining WWI and its causes, he focuses on the legacy the war has had on the next century and how the events that followed in turn shaped our perceptions of the Great War. It's an interesting premise that Reynolds examines from the perspective of history, culture, national identity and the three -isms (Communism, Fascism and Wilsonian republicanism).

The program is very UK centric, so you'll learn something about 1930s parliamentary politics along the way but this is done to contrast the stability of Britain between the wars with its fellow combatants. The production values are typical BBC with lots of shots of Reynolds walking around in the same tan suit. He's not the most telegenic guy ever but I grew fond of him and his provocative ideas over the course of the three hours.

 
"First Over There: The Attack on Cantigny, America's First Battle of World War I", by Matthew J. Davenport

Incredible read...

 
I'm sure we've discussed them before here. But the Regeneration Trilogy (Regeneration, The Eye in the Door, The Ghost Road) by Pat Barker is a must-read for anyone interested in WWI.

 
Christo said:
I'm sure we've discussed them before here. But the Regeneration Trilogy (Regeneration, The Eye in the Door, The Ghost Road) by Pat Barker is a must-read for anyone interested in WWI.
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I tried to read the first of those several years ago and I couldn't get through it. I may have to try again because the subject matter is right up my alley.

For non-fiction, I strongly recommend Barbara Tuchman's two books, The Proud Tower and The Guns of August, and William Manchester's first volume of his Last Lion Churchill biography, Visions of Glory.

 
All 26(!) parts of the BBC documentary done in the 60s: "The Great War" is findable on youtube. Went through in the background at work. Since many WWI vets were still a live there are many first-person accounts.

-QG

 
32 Counter Pass said:
Dan Carlin's Hardcore History has a pod cats series on WWI. Extremely fascinating. I highly recommend them!
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I just got around to listening to these. I'm on part 4 now. For some reason I've never read a lot about WWI. Listening to these podcasts just fills me with a profound sense of sadness at the enormous waste of human lives.
 
Andrew74 said:
32 Counter Pass said:
Dan Carlin's Hardcore History has a pod cats series on WWI. Extremely fascinating. I highly recommend them!
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I just got around to listening to these. I'm on part 4 now. For some reason I've never read a lot about WWI. Listening to these podcasts just fills me with a profound sense of sadness at the enormous waste of human lives.
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Off topic, but I wish Carlin would visit the French Revolutionary Wars and then the Napoleonic wars. That time period gave birth to the mass conscription we saw in WW1 and WW2. Ive read Carlin is not a fan of the time period, which is sad.

 
As related by Peter Hart in The Great War:

We automatically mounted the machine gun for action. Then like animals we burrowed into the earth as if trying to find protection deep in its bosom. Something struck my back where I carried my gas mask, but I did not pay attention to it. A steel splinter broke the handle of my spade and another knocked the remains out of my hand. I kept digging with my bare hands, ducking my head every time a shell exploded nearby. A boy to my side was hit in the arm and cried out for help. I crawled over to him, ripped the sleeves of his coat and shirt open and started to bind the bleeding part. The gas was so thick now I could hardly discern what I was doing. My eyes began to water and I felt as if I would choke. I reached for my gas mask, pulled it out of its container – then noticed to my horror that a splinter had gone through it leaving a large hole. I had seen death thousands of times, stared it in the face, but never experienced the fear I felt then. Immediately I reverted to the primitive. I felt like an animal cornered by hunters. With the instinct of self-preservations uppermost, my eyes fell on the boy whose arm I had bandaged. Somehow he had managed to put the gas mask on his face with his one good arm. I leapt at him and in the next moment had ripped the gas mask from his face. With a feeble gesture he tried to wrench it from my grasp; then fell back exhausted. The last thing I saw before putting on the mask were his pleading eyes.

Corporal Frederick Meisel, 371 Infantry Regiment, 43rd Ersatz Brigade, 10th Ersatz Division, German Army

 
Ladsud said:
As related by Peter Hart in The Great War:

We automatically mounted the machine gun for action. Then like animals we burrowed into the earth as if trying to find protection deep in its bosom. Something struck my back where I carried my gas mask, but I did not pay attention to it. A steel splinter broke the handle of my spade and another knocked the remains out of my hand. I kept digging with my bare hands, ducking my head every time a shell exploded nearby. A boy to my side was hit in the arm and cried out for help. I crawled over to him, ripped the sleeves of his coat and shirt open and started to bind the bleeding part. The gas was so thick now I could hardly discern what I was doing. My eyes began to water and I felt as if I would choke. I reached for my gas mask, pulled it out of its container – then noticed to my horror that a splinter had gone through it leaving a large hole. I had seen death thousands of times, stared it in the face, but never experienced the fear I felt then. Immediately I reverted to the primitive. I felt like an animal cornered by hunters. With the instinct of self-preservations uppermost, my eyes fell on the boy whose arm I had bandaged. Somehow he had managed to put the gas mask on his face with his one good arm. I leapt at him and in the next moment had ripped the gas mask from his face. With a feeble gesture he tried to wrench it from my grasp; then fell back exhausted. The last thing I saw before putting on the mask were his pleading eyes.

Corporal Frederick Meisel, 371 Infantry Regiment, 43rd Ersatz Brigade, 10th Ersatz Division, German Army
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So damn sad.

Crazy the things we fight over in this country, so trivial in light of what the men who fought for us did and had to do.

 
There's a 2005 Turkish documentary called Gallipoli that started streaming on Netflix earlier this month.  It's not to be confused with the 80s Australian film by Peter Weir that focused exclusive on the Anzacs.

I have it queued but haven't found time to watch yet.  The production values look good and the few reviews I've found are positive.

 
Eephus said:
There's a 2005 Turkish documentary called Gallipoli that started streaming on Netflix earlier this month.  It's not to be confused with the 80s Australian film by Peter Weir that focused exclusive on the Anzacs.

I have it queued but haven't found time to watch yet.  The production values look good and the few reviews I've found are positive.
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queued :thumbup:

 
For some reason I've never been podcast guy but got turned on to this yesterday and because it's history I'm interested in I gave it a try. I picked something I'd like to know more about so I started with the Blueprint For Armageddon series. I just clicked on IV to see what it was about and couldn't quit once I started listening. It covered the battle of Verdun, the battle of Jutland and finally covered the battle of the Somme. I thought it was really well done, 3+ hours. Looking forward to listening to the rest of them. The guy who told me about them was discussing how good his podcast on Genghis Kahn & the Mongols was as well.

http://www.dancarlin.com/hardcore-history-series/

 
I started watching Gallipoli on Netflix earlier this week.  For some reason, they only have the sub-titled Turkish language version rather than the English translation with Jeremy Irons and Sam Neill reading the letters from the Allied soldiers.

The English version is on YouTube
 

The ten-part Channel Four (UK) series "The First World War" from 2003 just went up on Amazon Prime.  It clocks in at 8 hours 23 minutes so start digging your trench now.

 
Eephus said:
The ten-part Channel Four (UK) series "The First World War" from 2003 just went up on Amazon Prime.  It clocks in at 8 hours 23 minutes so start digging your trench now.
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Is that the one that's starting on PBS in April?

ETA: No, i guess that's new - made for American Experience

 
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Eephus said:
The ten-part Channel Four (UK) series "The First World War" from 2003 just went up on Amazon Prime.  It clocks in at 8 hours 23 minutes so start digging your trench now.
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Quoting myself but this one is very good. 

The production is excellent without modern reenactments or talking head interviews.  They make extensive use of archival footage including silent movies shot after the war ended.  I'm four episodes in and only one of them focused on the Western Front.  There's been a lot of interesting material about the war in Africa and the sorties of the German fleet after getting chased out of China.  Even the Western Front episode contained a segment about life in the regions of France that were occupied by Germans from 1914-17.

 
Eephus said:
Quoting myself but this one is very good. 

The production is excellent without modern reenactments or talking head interviews.  They make extensive use of archival footage including silent movies shot after the war ended.  I'm four episodes in and only one of them focused on the Western Front.  There's been a lot of interesting material about the war in Africa and the sorties of the German fleet after getting chased out of China.  Even the Western Front episode contained a segment about life in the regions of France that were occupied by Germans from 1914-17.
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All 10 episodes available on Youtube as well

 
US enters the war 100 years ago today.

beer 30 said:
For some reason I've never been podcast guy but got turned on to this yesterday and because it's history I'm interested in I gave it a try. I picked something I'd like to know more about so I started with the Blueprint For Armageddon series. I just clicked on IV to see what it was about and couldn't quit once I started listening. It covered the battle of Verdun, the battle of Jutland and finally covered the battle of the Somme. I thought it was really well done, 3+ hours. Looking forward to listening to the rest of them. The guy who told me about them was discussing how good his podcast on Genghis Kahn & the Mongols was as well.

http://www.dancarlin.com/hardcore-history-series/
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Based on this post I checked out this podcast.  I will second this recommendation, Dan Carlin is a great story teller and these podcasts are captivating.

 
my Grandfather spent his entire WWII service in east India - in parts no longer part of India, working on railroads for US Army.  I have tons of photos.  Amazing to see what life continued to be like in the less populated parts, when he was working, to the times when he was in Calcutta.

 
beer 30 said:
For some reason I've never been podcast guy but got turned on to this yesterday and because it's history I'm interested in I gave it a try. I picked something I'd like to know more about so I started with the Blueprint For Armageddon series. I just clicked on IV to see what it was about and couldn't quit once I started listening. It covered the battle of Verdun, the battle of Jutland and finally covered the battle of the Somme. I thought it was really well done, 3+ hours. Looking forward to listening to the rest of them. The guy who told me about them was discussing how good his podcast on Genghis Kahn & the Mongols was as well.

http://www.dancarlin.com/hardcore-history-series/
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His current on atomic weapons is outstanding and is 6+ hours. Riveting stuff.  :thumbup:

 
MarvinTScamper said:
my Grandfather spent his entire WWII service in east India - in parts no longer part of India, working on railroads for US Army.  I have tons of photos.  Amazing to see what life continued to be like in the less populated parts, when he was working, to the times when he was in Calcutta.
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link to a few pics?

 
no such luck.  Maybe at some point I'll take a few snaps of the photos and post them again.

examples were:

- a yogi who burned himself to death on the city streets

- tigers that had been shot by troops stationed with him

- photos to and from India aboard his troop ship, including seeing Lady Liberty on the way home

- the trains that ran on the sub gauge rails over there

- his diary while aboard the troop ship

 
Mjolnirs said:
US enters the war 100 years ago today.

Based on this post I checked out this podcast.  I will second this recommendation, Dan Carlin is a great story teller and these podcasts are captivating.
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I made it through once and have started a second round of this series. Just so much information, you almost have to take breaks to ingest all of it.

Side note, if you are looking for something a shorter to get an idea of what Dan Carlin is about I listened to his Wrath of the Khan's series (8 hrs total) and it was excellent. 

 
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