World's Greatest Draft (1 Viewer)

[Ozymandias]

I will comment tomorrow. Certainly his writings have been very influential, but his existence is problematical.

 

[timschochet]

Also Mario, you really want him as a LEADER? I took a look at his Wiki page and I don't see him mentioned as leading anything. When I was thinking about the military part of this draft I did consider Sun Tzu, he was one of the people I was thinking about when I wrote, "this could include a military theorist". Are you sure that's not where you want him placed?

 

[Mario Kart]

Wow. That is certainly an out of the box pick. And I have to say, a major major reach for the first pick in the draft, when I suspect you could have had old Sun much later.

I first heard of Sun Tzu in James Clavell's marvelous Noble House, probably one of my alltime favorite novels. A few years later, Clavell actually wrote an introduction to a modern version of The Art of War. However, I was NOT aware that Sun Tzu was the leading thinker of Taoism. How many millions of people practise Tao, in comparison to the monotheistic religions? I suspect that at this point it's a smaller number.

Sorry, Mario, I don't like this pick for the first in the draft. I would probably love it much later on.

My next pick is #40. No way he gets back to me and if he would have, then people would not have been doing much researching. Also, like I stated, he has affected more people's lives in the modern history of the world. No, I cannot prove this, but it can be argued that every military leader after Sun Tzu has followed his tactics in some way shape or form in order to win their battles. He wrote them down, he has been read, and followed, for better or worse. His impact is still felt today. That is huge.

 

[Mario Kart]

I was hoping seriously hoping Sun would have fell to me

 

[timschochet]

Wow. That is certainly an out of the box pick. And I have to say, a major major reach for the first pick in the draft, when I suspect you could have had old Sun much later.

I first heard of Sun Tzu in James Clavell's marvelous Noble House, probably one of my alltime favorite novels. A few years later, Clavell actually wrote an introduction to a modern version of The Art of War. However, I was NOT aware that Sun Tzu was the leading thinker of Taoism. How many millions of people practise Tao, in comparison to the monotheistic religions? I suspect that at this point it's a smaller number.

Sorry, Mario, I don't like this pick for the first in the draft. I would probably love it much later on.

My next pick is #40. No way he gets back to me and if he would have, then people would not have been doing much researching. Also, like I stated, he has affected more people's lives in the modern history of the world. No, I cannot prove this, but it can be argued that every military leader after Sun Tzu has followed his tactics in some way shape or form in order to win their battles. He wrote them down, he has been read, and followed, for better or worse. His impact is still felt today. That is huge.

You really don't think he would have gotten back to you? Wow, perhaps I am underestimating the man. I would have thought him a mid round selection, certainly worthy for this draft, but in no way belonging in the upper rounds.

 

[Mario Kart]

Also Mario, you really want him as a LEADER? I took a look at his Wiki page and I don't see him mentioned as leading anything. When I was thinking about the military part of this draft I did consider Sun Tzu, he was one of the people I was thinking about when I wrote, "this could include a military theorist". Are you sure that's not where you want him placed?

Not exactly, I have to see what my next picks can have. His battles may not be documented or anything of that nature but he was a General.

Historians have questioned whether or not Sun was an authentic historical figure. Traditional accounts place him in the Spring and Autumn Period of China (722–481 BCE) as a heroic general of the King of Wu who lived c. 544—496 BCE. Scholars accepting his historicity place his writing of The Art of War in the Warring States Period (476–221 BCE), based on the descriptions of warfare in the text. Traditional accounts state that his descendant, Sun Bin, also wrote a master treatise on military tactics.

 

[timschochet]

Mario, I'm still confused by your answer. For now, do you want him as your leader or as your military guy?

 

[Mario Kart]

Wow. That is certainly an out of the box pick. And I have to say, a major major reach for the first pick in the draft, when I suspect you could have had old Sun much later.

I first heard of Sun Tzu in James Clavell's marvelous Noble House, probably one of my alltime favorite novels. A few years later, Clavell actually wrote an introduction to a modern version of The Art of War. However, I was NOT aware that Sun Tzu was the leading thinker of Taoism. How many millions of people practise Tao, in comparison to the monotheistic religions? I suspect that at this point it's a smaller number.

Sorry, Mario, I don't like this pick for the first in the draft. I would probably love it much later on.

My next pick is #40. No way he gets back to me and if he would have, then people would not have been doing much researching. Also, like I stated, he has affected more people's lives in the modern history of the world. No, I cannot prove this, but it can be argued that every military leader after Sun Tzu has followed his tactics in some way shape or form in order to win their battles. He wrote them down, he has been read, and followed, for better or worse. His impact is still felt today. That is huge.

You really don't think he would have gotten back to you? Wow, perhaps I am underestimating the man. I would have thought him a mid round selection, certainly worthy for this draft, but in no way belonging in the upper rounds.

I know it is St. Patty's day so maybe you have been drinking. But this guy does not sniff the second round. Even larry had to have eyes on him.

I was seriously hoping Sun would have fell to me

Picks at #11

 

[Mario Kart]

Mario, I'm still confused by your answer. For now, do you want him as your leader or as your military guy?

Place him as leader for now. I am keeping track of my roster in every post I draft in. If others follow the outline I did in Post #45... maybe it will lessen the sifting through to find answers that others have questions to during the draft.

 

[Ozymandias]

I will comment tomorrow. Certainly his writings have been very influential, but his existence is problematical.

On second thought, I'll give my comments now. This is a reach; he might have been available to you in the second round. He might not have been. His book is very influential in the modern age, but had no effect on the great generals of the past because his book was not available in translation until late in the 19th century; it has probably had more influence in the latter half of the 20th century and beginning of the 21st than any other book. But there haven't been any really big wars in those years. Would he make my top 40? Yes. But not my top ten. To make a football equivalent, you spent the the #1 pick on a tight end. Not as good as you could have done, even though he might be the best tight end available.P.S. I see you are saying you picked him as Leader. Sorry, if I misunderstood. However, I do think that when you pick, you have to place someone in a category at that time, and not move him back and forth from category to category. On the other hand, I am not running this draft, so I will abide by Tim's decision.

 

[larry_boy_44]

Sun Tzu was on my list... but not for #2 (basically he wasn't getting picked by me)...

pick coming... if #3 really wants to go, I guess they can, since you all should know who my pick is... lol

 

[timschochet]

I will comment tomorrow. Certainly his writings have been very influential, but his existence is problematical.

On second thought, I'll give my comments now. This is a reach; he might have been available to you in the second round. He might not have been. His book is very influential in the modern age, but had no effect on the great generals of the past because his book was not available in translation until late in the 19th century; it has probably had more influence in the latter half of the 20th century and beginning of the 21st than any other book. But there haven't been any really big wars in those years. Would he make my top 40? Yes. But not my top ten. To make a football equivalent, you spent the the #1 pick on a tight end. Not as good as you could have done, even though he might be the best tight end available.

I gotta agree with Ozymandius here. Even if Big Rocks or someone else was going to take this guy, I wouldn't think that's a good move either. The analogy to the tight end is very apt.

 

[FUBAR]

Wow. That is certainly an out of the box pick. And I have to say, a major major reach for the first pick in the draft, when I suspect you could have had old Sun much later.

I first heard of Sun Tzu in James Clavell's marvelous Noble House, probably one of my alltime favorite novels. A few years later, Clavell actually wrote an introduction to a modern version of The Art of War. However, I was NOT aware that Sun Tzu was the leading thinker of Taoism. How many millions of people practise Tao, in comparison to the monotheistic religions? I suspect that at this point it's a smaller number.

Sorry, Mario, I don't like this pick for the first in the draft. I would probably love it much later on.

My next pick is #40. No way he gets back to me and if he would have, then people would not have been doing much researching. Also, like I stated, he has affected more people's lives in the modern history of the world. No, I cannot prove this, but it can be argued that every military leader after Sun Tzu has followed his tactics in some way shape or form in order to win their battles. He wrote them down, he has been read, and followed, for better or worse. His impact is still felt today. That is huge.

You really don't think he would have gotten back to you? Wow, perhaps I am underestimating the man. I would have thought him a mid round selection, certainly worthy for this draft, but in no way belonging in the upper rounds.

I'm 99.9% sure he wouldn't have. He was in line ot be my 2nd round pick if he fell that far. Very influential. Not sure I'd take him as my #1 overall, this is like taking Randy Moss (funny, before reading the above post, I had written Tony Gonzalez - but I think military leaders are better than tight ends) #1 overall, but certainly a "day one pick".

 

[timschochet]

Really guys, don't feel like you have to hurry to make these picks. You can if you want, but it's not necessary.

 

[Abrantes]

Love Sun Tzu, and just crossed him off my list of candidates, but given the sheer number of categories in this draft and the fact that I don't see him as a consensus #1 in whichever category he ends up, I think it's a bit of a reach.

 

[larry_boy_44]

1.2 Leader (of His Heavenly Kingdom)/Military (of His Angelic Army)/Scientist (inventor of the world)/Martyr (for our sins)/Villian (to some)/Religious Figure/Celebrity/Rebel/Intellectual

Jesus Christ of Nazareth

Here are the :confirmed: facts of his life:

He was born somewhere in the area of modern Israel.

He died as a political/religious rebel of some sort.

He was crucified.

everything else is, yes, possibly fictional, but you can't deny that anyone else has had any more effect on the human race than the person that the "most powerful" religion on the planet since ~ 300 AD considers to be God manifest in the flesh.

PLUS he is believed to have literally been perfect from the moment he was born...

and, honestly, none of that really needed to be said. He needs no introduction and even the athiests in the crowd know exactly who this man is (and have for a thousand years in many/most parts of the world)...

Where am I gonna put him? probably religious figure (and yes, a few of those categories were lame attempts at jokes), but he might end up as a martyr or rebel as well...

 

[Mario Kart]

This is a reach; he might have been available to you in the second round. He might not have been. His book is very influential in the modern age, but had no effect on the great generals of the past because his book was not available in translation until late in the 19th century; it has probably had more influence in the latter half of the 20th century and beginning of the 21st than any other book. But there haven't been any really big wars in those years. Would he make my top 40? Yes. But not my top ten. To make a football equivalent, you spent the the #1 pick on a tight end. Not as good as you could have done, even though he might be the best tight end available.

Hardly a tight end. I think you are underestimating the impact of him, his thoughts, and The Art of War. What is considered the Modern Era? Roughly the last 500 years but in that time our knowledge of history revolves around Europe and America... since we live in America and we tend not to learn much about other areas of the world. China and Asia from the time of Sun Tzu to the 1500 was a highly active war time area where many wars occurred and many battles and many empires happened. Even if The Art of War was not translated into English or European languages until recently, the Asian continent was well aware of the book and its meanings.

During the Vietnam War, some Vietcong officers studied The Art of War, and reportedly could recite entire passages from memory.The Department of the Army in the United States, through its Command and General Staff College, has directed all units to maintain libraries within their respective headquarters for the continuing education of personnel in the art of war. The Art of War is specifically mentioned by name as an example of works to be maintained at each individual unit, and staff duty officers are obliged to prepare short papers for presentation to other officers on their readings.[9]The Art of War is listed on the Marine Corps Professional Reading Program (formerly known as the Commandant's Reading List).[10]New England Patriots head coach Bill Belichick has listed it as one of his favorite books, and one he reads before the start of every season.

 

[larry_boy_44]

VICTORY!

I now have God on my team... how can you beat that?

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

Wow. That is certainly an out of the box pick. And I have to say, a major major reach for the first pick in the draft, when I suspect you could have had old Sun much later.

I first heard of Sun Tzu in James Clavell's marvelous Noble House, probably one of my alltime favorite novels. A few years later, Clavell actually wrote an introduction to a modern version of The Art of War. However, I was NOT aware that Sun Tzu was the leading thinker of Taoism. How many millions of people practise Tao, in comparison to the monotheistic religions? I suspect that at this point it's a smaller number.

Sorry, Mario, I don't like this pick for the first in the draft. I would probably love it much later on.

My next pick is #40. No way he gets back to me and if he would have, then people would not have been doing much researching. Also, like I stated, he has affected more people's lives in the modern history of the world. No, I cannot prove this, but it can be argued that every military leader after Sun Tzu has followed his tactics in some way shape or form in order to win their battles. He wrote them down, he has been read, and followed, for better or worse. His impact is still felt today. That is huge.

You really don't think he would have gotten back to you? Wow, perhaps I am underestimating the man. I would have thought him a mid round selection, certainly worthy for this draft, but in no way belonging in the upper rounds.

I'm 99.9% sure he wouldn't have. He was in line ot be my 2nd round pick if he fell that far. Very influential. Not sure I'd take him as my #1 overall, this is like taking Randy Moss (funny, before reading the above post, I had written Tony Gonzalez - but I think military leaders are better than tight ends) #1 overall, but certainly a "day one pick".

I don't think it's so much that Military leaders are tight ends, but just that Sun Tzu shouldn't end up very high on that list. Maybe the better analogy is that it's like drafting Jake Delhomme with the first pick - sure you could have done worse but it's just that you could have done much, much better.

 

[Abrantes]

1.2 Leader (of His Heavenly Kingdom)/Military (of His Angelic Army)/Scientist (inventor of the world)/Martyr (for our sins)/Villian (to some)/Religious Figure/Celebrity/Rebel/Intellectual

Jesus Christ of Nazareth

One pick later than I thought he'd go.

 

[larry_boy_44]

1.2 Leader (of His Heavenly Kingdom)/Military (of His Angelic Army)/Scientist (inventor of the world)/Martyr (for our sins)/Villian (to some)/Religious Figure/Celebrity/Rebel/Intellectual

Jesus Christ of Nazareth

One pick later than I thought he'd go.

prayer works!

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

1.2 Leader (of His Heavenly Kingdom)/Military (of His Angelic Army)/Scientist (inventor of the world)/Martyr (for our sins)/Villian (to some)/Religious Figure/Celebrity/Rebel/Intellectual

Jesus Christ of Nazareth

Here are the :confirmed: facts of his life:

He was born somewhere in the area of modern Israel.

He died as a political/religious rebel of some sort.

He was crucified.

everything else is, yes, possibly fictional, but you can't deny that anyone else has had any more effect on the human race than the person that the "most powerful" religion on the planet since ~ 300 AD considers to be God manifest in the flesh.

PLUS he is believed to have literally been perfect from the moment he was born...

and, honestly, none of that really needed to be said. He needs no introduction and even the athiests in the crowd know exactly who this man is (and have for a thousand years in many/most parts of the world)...

Where am I gonna put him? probably religious figure (and yes, a few of those categories were lame attempts at jokes), but he might end up as a martyr or rebel as well...

He clearly should be in Religious figures, which is the only one where he is a clear number 1... and yes, this should have been a no-brainer.

 

[timschochet]

Larry, let's talk about Jesus.

First, a much more plausible first pick, IMO. There is some argument to be made against it, but I won't do that without spotlighting. Here's what I'm interested in discussing now:

In terms of what Jesus actually taught (per the gospels) how much do you believe is actually practiced today, or EVER was practiced by the human race?

 

[krista4]

I see we're off to a fun start. I like Mario Kart's thinking (if not necessarily his pick) and will be curious to see how his draft shakes out.

 

[larry_boy_44]

1.2 Leader (of His Heavenly Kingdom)/Military (of His Angelic Army)/Scientist (inventor of the world)/Martyr (for our sins)/Villian (to some)/Religious Figure/Celebrity/Rebel/Intellectual

Jesus Christ of Nazareth

Here are the :confirmed: facts of his life:

He was born somewhere in the area of modern Israel.

He died as a political/religious rebel of some sort.

He was crucified.

everything else is, yes, possibly fictional, but you can't deny that anyone else has had any more effect on the human race than the person that the "most powerful" religion on the planet since ~ 300 AD considers to be God manifest in the flesh.

PLUS he is believed to have literally been perfect from the moment he was born...

and, honestly, none of that really needed to be said. He needs no introduction and even the athiests in the crowd know exactly who this man is (and have for a thousand years in many/most parts of the world)...

Where am I gonna put him? probably religious figure (and yes, a few of those categories were lame attempts at jokes), but he might end up as a martyr or rebel as well...

He clearly should be in Religious figures, which is the only one where he is a clear number 1... and yes, this should have been a no-brainer.

yeah, that's why i said more than likely he'll be a religious figure... as he is BY FAR the #1 there...

 

[Mario Kart]

Love Sun Tzu, and just crossed him off my list of candidates, but given the sheer number of categories in this draft and the fact that I don't see him as a consensus #1 in whichever category he ends up, I think it's a bit of a reach.

Maybe will not be the #1 unless the pick is observed with an objectionable thought. Military or leader or wherever I might put him is not dictated by battles or victories, per se, but knowledge of those battles in order to obtain victory. It is a real live chess match in a way. Sun Tzu was the originator of military thought that is still taught today even in the vastly superior military technology era.

 

[larry_boy_44]

Larry, let's talk about Jesus.First, a much more plausible first pick, IMO. There is some argument to be made against it, but I won't do that without spotlighting. Here's what I'm interested in discussing now: In terms of what Jesus actually taught (per the gospels) how much do you believe is actually practiced today, or EVER was practiced by the human race?

I think a lot of it is ideals that are difficult if not impossible to truely do 100% of the time...I think most sects of Christianity do seek to follow what He said... Remember, per the gospels, Jesus Himself said that if you love God with all your heart soul mind and strength and love your neighbor as yourself that you will automatically do everything else he commanded...and the only way I could see an argument against Jesus as #1 is if you think a category that isn't as deep has a clear cut #1 in it... because Jesus is BY FAR the clearcut #1 religious figure...

 

[BobbyLayne]

I'm not sure how many times I will get to type this, so let me get this out of the way:

Great Pick, larry_boy_44!

 

[timschochet]

For example, as per wiki:

His moral teachings in Matthew and Luke encourage unconditional self-sacrificing God-like love for God and for all people. During his sermons, he preached about service and humility, the forgiveness of sin, faith, turning the other cheek, love for one's enemies as well as friends, and the need to follow the spirit of the law in addition to the letter

How many of these ideas do people actually practice?

 

[larry_boy_44]

I'm not sure how many times I will get to type this, so let me get this out of the way:

Great Pick, larry_boy_44!

probably a few times...great Americans borders too much on pop culture (as the last 50 or so years have been ALL pop culture)... I probably went a bit too far with it, but I coudln't justify picking people who were the 10th greatest from before 1800 over the 1st greatest from past 1980...

This is easier... plus I'm better prepared...

 

[timschochet]

[and the only way I could see an argument against Jesus as #1 is if you think a category that isn't as deep has a clear cut #1 in it... because Jesus is BY FAR the clearcut #1 religious figure...

No, I really don't think he is, and that is the reason I asked the questions I did. If you remove the theological aspect from the discussion, Jesus may not be the most important person in the history of Christianity. Even if you DO accept that Jesus is God, Christianity still has more than one extremely important person. Other religions, OTOH, really only have one person. So I think a very good argument can be made that you are incorrect here.

 

[Mario Kart]

Okay, since larry picked Jesus, I can explain why I did not pick him.

I thought about Jesus but there are many religious figures that have had impacts around the world. Jesus and Christianity have had impacts around the world but have had them more in European countries and later America. More wars have been fought in Gods or Jesus' name and while the good that accompanies the Bible may be good... the bad that goes with it is surely horrific.

I disagree that Jesus is the consensus number one pick, however. If we were all Europeans, I don't think Jesus is considered the #1. If we were Asians, again, Jesus is not #1. Maybe in South America and it appears North America but the amount of people in Asia, Africa, the Middle East and so on throughout the history of the past ~2,000 years are far outnumbered by where Jesus is the #1 (South/North America).

Besides, I wanted to make larry's night.

 

[Big Rocks]

1.2 Leader (of His Heavenly Kingdom)/Military (of His Angelic Army)/Scientist (inventor of the world)/Martyr (for our sins)/Villian (to some)/Religious Figure/Celebrity/Rebel/Intellectual

Jesus Christ of Nazareth

Still doesn't make up for the Hulk Hogan and Angelina Jolie picks...

 

[timschochet]

One other question, before I post this pick: what is the most respectful way for me to do so? Should I write, "Jesus Christ" or "Jesus of Nazareth"? Which would be more correct?

 

[Mario Kart]

and the only way I could see an argument against Jesus as #1 is if you think a category that isn't as deep has a clear cut #1 in it... because Jesus is BY FAR the clearcut #1 religious figure...

With the world in consideration... I do not think Jesus is the #1 in the religious figure category.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

I guess I'll go ahead and pick. I knew 3 was going to be an awkward spot, since there are so many options. I'll take the one that I think represents the best value relative to his category right now.

William Shakespeare

William Shakespeare (baptised 26 April 1564 – 23 April 1616)[a] was an English poet and playwright, widely regarded as the greatest writer in the English language and the world's preeminent dramatist.[1] He is often called England's national poet and the "Bard of Avon" (or simply "The Bard"). His surviving works consist of 38 plays, 154 sonnets, two long narrative poems, and several other poems. His plays have been translated into every major living language and are performed more often than those of any other playwright.[2]

Shakespeare produced most of his known work between 1590 and 1613. His early plays were mainly comedies and histories, genres he raised to the peak of sophistication and artistry by the end of the sixteenth century. He then wrote mainly tragedies until about 1608, including Hamlet, King Lear, and Macbeth, considered some of the finest works in the English language. In his last phase, he wrote tragicomedies, also known as romances, and collaborated with other playwrights. Many of his plays were published in editions of varying quality and accuracy during his lifetime. In 1623, two of his former theatrical colleagues published the First Folio, a collected edition of his dramatic works that included all but two of the plays now recognised as Shakespeare's.

Shakespeare was a respected poet and playwright in his own day, but his reputation did not rise to its present heights until the nineteenth century. The Romantics, in particular, acclaimed Shakespeare's genius, and the Victorians hero-worshipped Shakespeare with a reverence that George Bernard Shaw called "bardolatry".[4] In the twentieth century, his work was repeatedly adopted and rediscovered by new movements in scholarship and performance. His plays remain highly popular today and are constantly studied, performed and reinterpreted in diverse cultural and political contexts throughout the world.

 

[Fennis]

Sun Tzu - Leader possibly Military, Philosopher, Intellectual

Although IMO a bit too high, I like that non western pick was first. I am curious to see how many non-Westerners are picked.

 

[larry_boy_44]

[and the only way I could see an argument against Jesus as #1 is if you think a category that isn't as deep has a clear cut #1 in it... because Jesus is BY FAR the clearcut #1 religious figure...

No, I really don't think he is, and that is the reason I asked the questions I did. If you remove the theological aspect from the discussion, Jesus may not be the most important person in the history of Christianity. Even if you DO accept that Jesus is God, Christianity still has more than one extremely important person. Other religions, OTOH, really only have one person. So I think a very good argument can be made that you are incorrect here.

but without Jesus, that other person wouldn't have ever done anything... if anything Jesus diminishes the other person, not the other way around...without Jesus, Christianity doesn't exist... Without that other person, it still exists...if the other person would defer the spot to Jesus (and he would), I think Jesus is #1...

 

[Abrantes]

I guess I'll go ahead and pick. I knew 3 was going to be an awkward spot, since there are so many options. I'll take the one that I think represents the best value relative to his category right now.

William Shakespeare

William Shakespeare (baptised 26 April 1564 – 23 April 1616)[a] was an English poet and playwright, widely regarded as the greatest writer in the English language and the world's preeminent dramatist.[1] He is often called England's national poet and the "Bard of Avon" (or simply "The Bard"). His surviving works consist of 38 plays, 154 sonnets, two long narrative poems, and several other poems. His plays have been translated into every major living language and are performed more often than those of any other playwright.[2]

Shakespeare produced most of his known work between 1590 and 1613. His early plays were mainly comedies and histories, genres he raised to the peak of sophistication and artistry by the end of the sixteenth century. He then wrote mainly tragedies until about 1608, including Hamlet, King Lear, and Macbeth, considered some of the finest works in the English language. In his last phase, he wrote tragicomedies, also known as romances, and collaborated with other playwrights. Many of his plays were published in editions of varying quality and accuracy during his lifetime. In 1623, two of his former theatrical colleagues published the First Folio, a collected edition of his dramatic works that included all but two of the plays now recognised as Shakespeare's.

Shakespeare was a respected poet and playwright in his own day, but his reputation did not rise to its present heights until the nineteenth century. The Romantics, in particular, acclaimed Shakespeare's genius, and the Victorians hero-worshipped Shakespeare with a reverence that George Bernard Shaw called "bardolatry".[4] In the twentieth century, his work was repeatedly adopted and rediscovered by new movements in scholarship and performance. His plays remain highly popular today and are constantly studied, performed and reinterpreted in diverse cultural and political contexts throughout the world.

Figured he wouldn't drop all the way down to me, but alas, still had a fleeting glimmer of hope. Beautiful pick.

 

[Mario Kart]

[and the only way I could see an argument against Jesus as #1 is if you think a category that isn't as deep has a clear cut #1 in it... because Jesus is BY FAR the clearcut #1 religious figure...

No, I really don't think he is, and that is the reason I asked the questions I did. If you remove the theological aspect from the discussion, Jesus may not be the most important person in the history of Christianity. Even if you DO accept that Jesus is God, Christianity still has more than one extremely important person. Other religions, OTOH, really only have one person. So I think a very good argument can be made that you are incorrect here.

Wait a minute right here Tim. You are downgrading picking Sun Tzu as #1 and claimed earlier that Jesus was the #1 overall pick. And, now, you are claiming Jesus may/is not the #1 in the religious figure slot. So, if I don't pick Sun Tzu as #1 and do pick Jesus... I would be just as wrong as he may not be the #1. Quite the contradiction here.

 

[krista4]

I guess I'll go ahead and pick. I knew 3 was going to be an awkward spot, since there are so many options. I'll take the one that I think represents the best value relative to his category right now.

William Shakespeare

William Shakespeare (baptised 26 April 1564 – 23 April 1616)[a] was an English poet and playwright, widely regarded as the greatest writer in the English language and the world's preeminent dramatist.[1] He is often called England's national poet and the "Bard of Avon" (or simply "The Bard"). His surviving works consist of 38 plays, 154 sonnets, two long narrative poems, and several other poems. His plays have been translated into every major living language and are performed more often than those of any other playwright.[2]

Shakespeare produced most of his known work between 1590 and 1613. His early plays were mainly comedies and histories, genres he raised to the peak of sophistication and artistry by the end of the sixteenth century. He then wrote mainly tragedies until about 1608, including Hamlet, King Lear, and Macbeth, considered some of the finest works in the English language. In his last phase, he wrote tragicomedies, also known as romances, and collaborated with other playwrights. Many of his plays were published in editions of varying quality and accuracy during his lifetime. In 1623, two of his former theatrical colleagues published the First Folio, a collected edition of his dramatic works that included all but two of the plays now recognised as Shakespeare's.

Shakespeare was a respected poet and playwright in his own day, but his reputation did not rise to its present heights until the nineteenth century. The Romantics, in particular, acclaimed Shakespeare's genius, and the Victorians hero-worshipped Shakespeare with a reverence that George Bernard Shaw called "bardolatry".[4] In the twentieth century, his work was repeatedly adopted and rediscovered by new movements in scholarship and performance. His plays remain highly popular today and are constantly studied, performed and reinterpreted in diverse cultural and political contexts throughout the world.

Your poet/playwright judge approves. I currently have a 1a) and 1b) in this category, with everyone else at least a tier below, and certainly Bill S. makes it into this tier.

 

[larry_boy_44]

Okay, since larry picked Jesus, I can explain why I did not pick him.

I thought about Jesus but there are many religious figures that have had impacts around the world. Jesus and Christianity have had impacts around the world but have had them more in European countries and later America. More wars have been fought in Gods or Jesus' name and while the good that accompanies the Bible may be good... the bad that goes with it is surely horrific.

I disagree that Jesus is the consensus number one pick, however. If we were all Europeans, I don't think Jesus is considered the #1. If we were Asians, again, Jesus is not #1. Maybe in South America and it appears North America but the amount of people in Asia, Africa, the Middle East and so on throughout the history of the past ~2,000 years are far outnumbered by where Jesus is the #1 (South/North America).

Besides, I wanted to make larry's night.

and you did I'll ask God to bless you extra for letting me pick Jesus at 1.2

and I didn't pick him because of all the good Christianity did in His name vs. the bad... But because of the massive effect He has had on the entire world since His life... No one else has had anywhere near that effect on the world...

 

[Mario Kart]

[and the only way I could see an argument against Jesus as #1 is if you think a category that isn't as deep has a clear cut #1 in it... because Jesus is BY FAR the clearcut #1 religious figure...

No, I really don't think he is, and that is the reason I asked the questions I did. If you remove the theological aspect from the discussion, Jesus may not be the most important person in the history of Christianity. Even if you DO accept that Jesus is God, Christianity still has more than one extremely important person. Other religions, OTOH, really only have one person. So I think a very good argument can be made that you are incorrect here.

but without Jesus, that other person wouldn't have ever done anything... if anything Jesus diminishes the other person, not the other way around...without Jesus, Christianity doesn't exist... Without that other person, it still exists...if the other person would defer the spot to Jesus (and he would), I think Jesus is #1...

There are many other religions than Christianity. And, those religions have had as much or more impact on the world than Christianity has.

 

[larry_boy_44]

One other question, before I post this pick: what is the most respectful way for me to do so? Should I write, "Jesus Christ" or "Jesus of Nazareth"? Which would be more correct?

both are 100% fine...However, since we're picking humans and not dieties, I would say "Jesus of Nazareth" is probably best for the purposes of this exercise...

 

[Mario Kart]

and I didn't pick him because of all the good Christianity did in His name vs. the bad... But because of the massive effect He has had on the entire world since His life... No one else has had anywhere near that effect on the world...

This is highly, highly debatable larry. The entire world as been influenced by much more than Jesus. Western society... I will give you that... the world, no.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

[and the only way I could see an argument against Jesus as #1 is if you think a category that isn't as deep has a clear cut #1 in it... because Jesus is BY FAR the clearcut #1 religious figure...

No, I really don't think he is, and that is the reason I asked the questions I did. If you remove the theological aspect from the discussion, Jesus may not be the most important person in the history of Christianity. Even if you DO accept that Jesus is God, Christianity still has more than one extremely important person. Other religions, OTOH, really only have one person. So I think a very good argument can be made that you are incorrect here.

Nope. Were other people more important in spreading what we now know as Christianity throughout the world? Without question. But none of that happens without the actions of Jesus himself (even though we go by records that were written long after his life, passed down from oral accounts). Given the comparative size and influence if Christianity throughout the world - and not just in the West - I don't think it's even close that Jesus of Nazareth should be #1 in Religious Figures even though there will be other "founders" who possibly had more influence during their lives.

 

[larry_boy_44]

[and the only way I could see an argument against Jesus as #1 is if you think a category that isn't as deep has a clear cut #1 in it... because Jesus is BY FAR the clearcut #1 religious figure...

No, I really don't think he is, and that is the reason I asked the questions I did. If you remove the theological aspect from the discussion, Jesus may not be the most important person in the history of Christianity. Even if you DO accept that Jesus is God, Christianity still has more than one extremely important person. Other religions, OTOH, really only have one person. So I think a very good argument can be made that you are incorrect here.

but without Jesus, that other person wouldn't have ever done anything... if anything Jesus diminishes the other person, not the other way around...without Jesus, Christianity doesn't exist... Without that other person, it still exists...if the other person would defer the spot to Jesus (and he would), I think Jesus is #1...

There are many other religions than Christianity. And, those religions have had as much or more impact on the world than Christianity has.

all the great world powers since 300 AD have been Christian...Rome was after that point, England has always been, France & Germany until recently... the Holy Roman Empire, the Eastern Roman Empire... the US...all nations that either were (mostly) literally Christian nations with laws regarding Christianity being the official state religion, or nations comprised mostly of Christians with Christian morals and ideals in mind...

 

[Mario Kart]

I guess I'll go ahead and pick. I knew 3 was going to be an awkward spot, since there are so many options. I'll take the one that I think represents the best value relative to his category right now.

William Shakespeare

I like the thinking here. Definitely outside the box. I like it. No way he gets to round 2.

 

[larry_boy_44]

[and the only way I could see an argument against Jesus as #1 is if you think a category that isn't as deep has a clear cut #1 in it... because Jesus is BY FAR the clearcut #1 religious figure...

No, I really don't think he is, and that is the reason I asked the questions I did. If you remove the theological aspect from the discussion, Jesus may not be the most important person in the history of Christianity. Even if you DO accept that Jesus is God, Christianity still has more than one extremely important person. Other religions, OTOH, really only have one person. So I think a very good argument can be made that you are incorrect here.

Nope. Were other people more important in spreading what we now know as Christianity throughout the world? Without question. But none of that happens without the actions of Jesus himself (even though we go by records that were written long after his life, passed down from oral accounts). Given the comparative size and influence if Christianity throughout the world - and not just in the West - I don't think it's even close that Jesus of Nazareth should be #1 in Religious Figures even though there will be other "founders" who possibly had more influence during their lives.

EXACTLY!

 

[Abrantes]

Ugh, this draft is killin' me already.