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World's Greatest Draft (1 Viewer)

larry_boy_44 said:
Mario Kart said:
Yankee23Fan said:
Mario Kart said:
Yankee23Fan said:
Why no picks yet? We should be able to get at least 3 round done before the clock goes on.
Doing research and the draft order was just handed down a few hours ago. What is the rush here?
No rush in a mean sense, but let's be honest - research? For the top pick? This should be a no brainer.
It is not much of a no brainer. There are many directions I am going to go.
:thumbup: you shouldn't follow conventional wisdom...
Some things never changeNothing's going to change that

Some things you can't explain

Like why we're all embracing conventional wisdom

In a world that's just so unconventional

I'm glad I didn't get #1 cuz I don't want him on my team. I think my #10 is great, I get a chance to see how the top picks shake out and I have plenty of time between picks. I'll need it. To borrow a quip from my pal Hugh Laurie, I feel like I'm gonna be in a tennis match with McEnroe and my racket is a salmon.

 
all the great world powers since 300 AD have been Christian...Rome was after that point, England has always been, France & Germany until recently... the Holy Roman Empire, the Eastern Roman Empire... the US...all nations that either were (mostly) literally Christian nations with laws regarding Christianity being the official state religion, or nations comprised mostly of Christians with Christian morals and ideals in mind...
So, giving credit to the world powers that killed and killed and killed to get that power... you are saying this is a good thing? These Powers raped, maimed, killed in the name of God/Jesus. To me, this is more of a knock on Christianity than it is a good thing. But, that is just me.
 
all the great world powers since 300 AD have been Christian...Rome was after that point, England has always been, France & Germany until recently... the Holy Roman Empire, the Eastern Roman Empire... the US...all nations that either were (mostly) literally Christian nations with laws regarding Christianity being the official state religion, or nations comprised mostly of Christians with Christian morals and ideals in mind...
So, giving credit to the world powers that killed and killed and killed to get that power... you are saying this is a good thing? These Powers raped, maimed, killed in the name of God/Jesus. To me, this is more of a knock on Christianity than it is a good thing. But, that is just me.
you act like every other world power didn't do the same things... The only way to have a religion without those bad marks on is is to never be in power...besides, the fact that they believed in Christianity doesn't mean their actions explicitly exemplify Christianity...
 
I guess I'll go ahead and pick. I knew 3 was going to be an awkward spot, since there are so many options. I'll take the one that I think represents the best value relative to his category right now.

William Shakespeare

William Shakespeare (baptised 26 April 1564 – 23 April 1616)[a] was an English poet and playwright, widely regarded as the greatest writer in the English language and the world's preeminent dramatist.[1] He is often called England's national poet and the "Bard of Avon" (or simply "The Bard"). His surviving works consist of 38 plays, 154 sonnets, two long narrative poems, and several other poems. His plays have been translated into every major living language and are performed more often than those of any other playwright.[2]

Shakespeare produced most of his known work between 1590 and 1613. His early plays were mainly comedies and histories, genres he raised to the peak of sophistication and artistry by the end of the sixteenth century. He then wrote mainly tragedies until about 1608, including Hamlet, King Lear, and Macbeth, considered some of the finest works in the English language. In his last phase, he wrote tragicomedies, also known as romances, and collaborated with other playwrights. Many of his plays were published in editions of varying quality and accuracy during his lifetime. In 1623, two of his former theatrical colleagues published the First Folio, a collected edition of his dramatic works that included all but two of the plays now recognised as Shakespeare's.

Shakespeare was a respected poet and playwright in his own day, but his reputation did not rise to its present heights until the nineteenth century. The Romantics, in particular, acclaimed Shakespeare's genius, and the Victorians hero-worshipped Shakespeare with a reverence that George Bernard Shaw called "bardolatry".[4] In the twentieth century, his work was repeatedly adopted and rediscovered by new movements in scholarship and performance. His plays remain highly popular today and are constantly studied, performed and reinterpreted in diverse cultural and political contexts throughout the world.
Your poet/playwright judge approves. I currently have a 1a) and 1b) in this category, with everyone else at least a tier below, and certainly Bill S. makes it into this tier.
Yeah, I said in the other thread that I think you can make a case for one other person for number 1. It's a tougher case though, IMO, and no way would The Bard drop lower than number 2. Most of the other people available now I think there is more room for debate over their status (particularly since some of the better ones span several categories but maybe aren't clearly number 1 in any).
 
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(1.2 HULK HOGAN!!! YEAH!!)
Would the rest of the world know who Hulk Hogan is? (Serious question).
yes. Japan & other Asian countries and, say, England, Italy, & to a lesser extant Western Europe...but they've been doing international shows/broadcasts since very early on...he so shouldn't actually be picked in this draft (and is admittedly marginal at best in the other one), but they do know who he is...
Alright, I'm just catching up on this thread, but PLEASE no Hulk discussions in this THREAD. We know Larry's FEELINGS on him and we've BEEN through his "qualifications" too many TIMES.Also, I'm already a little mad because I figured a possibility that Sun would fall past the top picks. Surprising #1 but I can see the wisdom when you think that he's arguably #1 in his category. So, good pick? But eat it.
 
all the great world powers since 300 AD have been Christian...Rome was after that point, England has always been, France & Germany until recently... the Holy Roman Empire, the Eastern Roman Empire... the US...all nations that either were (mostly) literally Christian nations with laws regarding Christianity being the official state religion, or nations comprised mostly of Christians with Christian morals and ideals in mind...
So, giving credit to the world powers that killed and killed and killed to get that power... you are saying this is a good thing? These Powers raped, maimed, killed in the name of God/Jesus. To me, this is more of a knock on Christianity than it is a good thing. But, that is just me.
you act like every other world power didn't do the same things... The only way to have a religion without those bad marks on is is to never be in power...besides, the fact that they believed in Christianity doesn't mean their actions explicitly exemplify Christianity...
But, you added the line, "all the great world powers since 300 AD have been Christian..." so you are propping Christianity up by the fact that the world powers were Christian.Maybe not having power does much more for religion than being in power and forcing a religion upon the citizens.
 
I believe I am right about Jesus based on two factors:

1. The actual teachings of Jesus aren't generally followed by those people who call themselves Christians. What they follow instead are beliefs ABOUT Jesus, and these are provided for just as much by other parties.

2. I can't give the second factor away without spotlighting. But let's put it this way. There are TWO extremely large monothestic religions in the world today. One of them, Christianity, is in debt to TWO people for it's establishment, Jesus being only one of them. The other religion is in debt to ONE person. Therefore, shouldn't the main person of that other religion be considered more influential than Jesus Christ? I think so.

 
all the great world powers since 300 AD have been Christian...Rome was after that point, England has always been, France & Germany until recently... the Holy Roman Empire, the Eastern Roman Empire... the US...all nations that either were (mostly) literally Christian nations with laws regarding Christianity being the official state religion, or nations comprised mostly of Christians with Christian morals and ideals in mind...
So, giving credit to the world powers that killed and killed and killed to get that power... you are saying this is a good thing? These Powers raped, maimed, killed in the name of God/Jesus. To me, this is more of a knock on Christianity than it is a good thing. But, that is just me.
you act like every other world power didn't do the same things... The only way to have a religion without those bad marks on is is to never be in power...besides, the fact that they believed in Christianity doesn't mean their actions explicitly exemplify Christianity...
But, you added the line, "all the great world powers since 300 AD have been Christian..." so you are propping Christianity up by the fact that the world powers were Christian.Maybe not having power does much more for religion than being in power and forcing a religion upon the citizens.
I agree...but my point with "All the great world powers" is the EFFECT that the religion based upon Jesus being God manifest in flesh and dying from our sins and rising from the dead and then offering salvation to us all freely is the most influential thing in the history of the world... THUS He is the most influential person ever to live.
 
I believe I am right about Jesus based on two factors:1. The actual teachings of Jesus aren't generally followed by those people who call themselves Christians. What they follow instead are beliefs ABOUT Jesus, and these are provided for just as much by other parties.2. I can't give the second factor away without spotlighting. But let's put it this way. There are TWO extremely large monothestic religions in the world today. One of them, Christianity, is in debt to TWO people for it's establishment, Jesus being only one of them. The other religion is in debt to ONE person. Therefore, shouldn't the main person of that other religion be considered more influential than Jesus Christ? I think so.
a few things:there are actually many more than 2 people responsible for Christianity and I wouldn't be surprised if half the "religious figures" in this draft are from the Bible...second, the person you are referring to ripped of the Bible blatantly... or, AT MINIMUM, was led to follow in the footsteps of the Bible & the OT...Thus, again, Jesus is more important...plus, the religion based on Jesus has been more influential to human history than the other one you refer to... (and the one you refer to actually holds Jesus by name in very high regard)
 
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I believe I am right about Jesus based on two factors:1. The actual teachings of Jesus aren't generally followed by those people who call themselves Christians. What they follow instead are beliefs ABOUT Jesus, and these are provided for just as much by other parties.2. I can't give the second factor away without spotlighting. But let's put it this way. There are TWO extremely large monothestic religions in the world today. One of them, Christianity, is in debt to TWO people for it's establishment, Jesus being only one of them. The other religion is in debt to ONE person. Therefore, shouldn't the main person of that other religion be considered more influential than Jesus Christ? I think so.
1. This is subjective and can be applied to most religions based on how they are interpreted.2. No. The growth of the other religion you are referring to still depended on people following the death of the founder/prophet (a predominantly military expansion in point of fact).
 
Run this one through yer heads bout JC. Forget anything mythical, religious or God like about him imagine him as just a Carpenters son. There is an entire religion dedicated to this Carpenter's son followed by billions, pretty important guy IMHO.

 
but my point with "All the great world powers" is the EFFECT that the religion based upon Jesus being God manifest in flesh and dying from our sins and rising from the dead and then offering salvation to us all freely is the most influential thing in the history of the world... THUS He is the most influential person ever to live.
Okay, are you using this as a "good" thing or a "bad" thing?I am asking for clarification because the effects you are stating are not, to me, positive traits of a peaceful religion.
 
Now on to Will Shakespeare.

This would have been my #1 pick, hands down. The reason is I believe there is clear separation between him and everyone else in his category. And we're dealing here with the greatest writer who ever lived. I really have no idea which is my favorite play, between:

Hamlet

MacBeth

The Merchant of Venice

The Taming of The Shrew

A Midsummer Night's Dream

Romeo and Juliet

The Tempest

Richard III

Henry V

etc

Any ONE of these would have made this guy probably eligible for this list, but to have written all of them plus so many more (not to mention the sonnets) is amazing.

All I can add is:

What a piece of work is a man, how noble in reason, how

infinite in faculties, in form and moving how express and

admirable, in action how like an angel, in apprehension how like

a god! the beauty of the world, the paragon of animals—and yet,

to me, what is this quintessence of dust?

 
Just found out what spotlighting is and why it was referenced in a much earlier post of mine lol not what I meant at all but I see how it could have been interpreted that way knowing some of the wise arses here.

The Bard is also an easy first round pick. Krista you must have some kind of English fetish or wanted to be an English Teacher it seems all the people that I have ever met that called the Bard Bill or Billy were huge fans and English fanatics.(Consider that a question)

 
but my point with "All the great world powers" is the EFFECT that the religion based upon Jesus being God manifest in flesh and dying from our sins and rising from the dead and then offering salvation to us all freely is the most influential thing in the history of the world... THUS He is the most influential person ever to live.
Okay, are you using this as a "good" thing or a "bad" thing?I am asking for clarification because the effects you are stating are not, to me, positive traits of a peaceful religion.
good or bad is irrelevant... its about the effect He had on the world... which is second to none (and, honestly, no one else is even close)
 
Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow

Creeps in this petty pace from day to day

To the last syllable of recorded time,

And all our yesterdays have lighted fools

The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle.

Life’s but a walking shadow, a poor player

That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,

And then is heard no more. It is a tale

Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,

Signifying nothing.

Damn. What more can be said, really?

 
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but my point with "All the great world powers" is the EFFECT that the religion based upon Jesus being God manifest in flesh and dying from our sins and rising from the dead and then offering salvation to us all freely is the most influential thing in the history of the world... THUS He is the most influential person ever to live.
Okay, are you using this as a "good" thing or a "bad" thing?I am asking for clarification because the effects you are stating are not, to me, positive traits of a peaceful religion.
good or bad is irrelevant... its about the effect He had on the world... which is second to none (and, honestly, no one else is even close)
:)
 
Oh, Christ -- this is a trainwreck already happening -- it's like Larry picking Shawn Marion in the all-time NBA draft...without the surprise (good pick with Jesus)...but with the argumentation.

 
honestly...

if you take into account only the evils done using Christianity and in Jesus' name as a reasoning (even if I believe they were falsely using it), you could say that Jesus had the worst effect on the world of any man ever... Now I believe those men used His name falsely and weren't actually following Him, but that's not my point with that...

BUT

if you take into account only the good done using Christianity and in Jesus' name as a reasoning, you could say that Jesus had the most positive effect on humanity of any one man ever...

That is why he is the #1 overall pick and there is no one else even close IMO...

 
Let's not forget the best response to anti-Semitism ever written:

I am a Jew. Hath not a Jew eyes? Hath not a Jew hands,

organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions; fed with the same

food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases,

heal'd by the same means, warm'd and cool'd by the same winter

and summer, as a Christian is? If you ##### us, do we not bleed? If

you tickle us, do we not laugh? If you poison us, do we not die?

And if you wrong us, do we not revenge? If we are like you in the

rest, we will resemble you in that.

 
but my point with "All the great world powers" is the EFFECT that the religion based upon Jesus being God manifest in flesh and dying from our sins and rising from the dead and then offering salvation to us all freely is the most influential thing in the history of the world... THUS He is the most influential person ever to live.
Okay, are you using this as a "good" thing or a "bad" thing?I am asking for clarification because the effects you are stating are not, to me, positive traits of a peaceful religion.
good or bad is irrelevant... its about the effect He had on the world... which is second to none (and, honestly, no one else is even close)
Fair enough, but I would much rather follow a religious figure that the followers practice what has been preached. The effect, while great, has more bad anecdote's to it that are not positive. I doubt Jesus favors, if peace was his objective, what his followers have done in his name.
 
And of course, the most stirring war speech ever given:

This story, shall a good man teach his son...

 
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honestly...

if you take into account only the evils done using Christianity and in Jesus' name as a reasoning (even if I believe they were falsely using it), you could say that Jesus had the worst effect on the world of any man ever... Now I believe those men used His name falsely and weren't actually following Him, but that's not my point with that...

BUT

if you take into account only the good done using Christianity and in Jesus' name as a reasoning, you could say that Jesus had the most positive effect on humanity of any one man ever...

That is why he is the #1 overall pick and there is no one else even close IMO...
Actually, he was the #2 overall pick. HTH :)
 
honestly...

if you take into account only the evils done using Christianity and in Jesus' name as a reasoning (even if I believe they were falsely using it), you could say that Jesus had the worst effect on the world of any man ever... Now I believe those men used His name falsely and weren't actually following Him, but that's not my point with that...

BUT

if you take into account only the good done using Christianity and in Jesus' name as a reasoning, you could say that Jesus had the most positive effect on humanity of any one man ever...

That is why he is the #1 overall pick and there is no one else even close IMO...
Actually, he was the #2 overall pick. HTH :)
should have been #1 overalland I appreciate MK allowing me to pick Jesus...

 
MisfitBlondes said:
Back in 1988, I visited Stratford-on-Avon and went to see Shakespeare's grave...I got in a lot of trouble for actually standing on it. There was a large group ahead of us on the way into the church and I was completely unaware of where I was standing. :)
But that's awesome that you even went there.
 
Just found out what spotlighting is and why it was referenced in a much earlier post of mine lol not what I meant at all but I see how it could have been interpreted that way knowing some of the wise arses here.The Bard is also an easy first round pick. Krista you must have some kind of English fetish or wanted to be an English Teacher it seems all the people that I have ever met that called the Bard Bill or Billy were huge fans and English fanatics.(Consider that a question)
:) I don't know why...I do see that a lot from Bardophiles (of which I am not one). I don't agree with Tim that he should be the #1 overall pick, as I rate another poet/playwright pretty much even with him, but a clear first-rounder and I'm happy to see him taken.
 
honestly...if you take into account only the evils done using Christianity and in Jesus' name as a reasoning (even if I believe they were falsely using it), you could say that Jesus had the worst effect on the world of any man ever... Now I believe those men used His name falsely and weren't actually following Him, but that's not my point with that...BUTif you take into account only the good done using Christianity and in Jesus' name as a reasoning, you could say that Jesus had the most positive effect on humanity of any one man ever...That is why he is the #1 overall pick and there is no one else even close IMO...
I really don't believe that either of these are true, Larry.1. When it comes time to look at the great villains who ever lived, many of the worst of them were NOT Christians. 2. When it comes to human progress and what I would consider the advancement of mankind, much of it was done in SPITE of Christianity and opposed by Christianity, as well. I would argue that in both the questions of positive and negative effects on humanity, Jesus is actually less important than you think...
 
But please don't get me wrong, Jesus is not a bad pick at all; how could He be? Definitely a top 5 pick. Just don't agree with Larry that he's the CLEAR #1.

 
honestly...if you take into account only the evils done using Christianity and in Jesus' name as a reasoning (even if I believe they were falsely using it), you could say that Jesus had the worst effect on the world of any man ever... Now I believe those men used His name falsely and weren't actually following Him, but that's not my point with that...BUTif you take into account only the good done using Christianity and in Jesus' name as a reasoning, you could say that Jesus had the most positive effect on humanity of any one man ever...That is why he is the #1 overall pick and there is no one else even close IMO...
I really don't believe that either of these are true, Larry.1. When it comes time to look at the great villains who ever lived, many of the worst of them were NOT Christians. 2. When it comes to human progress and what I would consider the advancement of mankind, much of it was done in SPITE of Christianity and opposed by Christianity, as well. I would argue that in both the questions of positive and negative effects on humanity, Jesus is actually less important than you think...
1. I can think of a number that were Christians or who used Christianity to convince people to do what they wanted... More than any other one source for sure...2. Again, I can think of single things that might be greater, but the sheer number of good acts done in the name of Christianity outweigh any other source of inspiration...as with before, its about sheer # and amount of influence, not about specific acts... Look at it this way, you wanted to point out unitarians in the last draft...Do you really want me to point out every person in this draft who in some way was influenced by Jesus or who followed Jesus or lived in a country where the official religion was Christianity?? Because we are 2 for 3 right now and I would be greatly surprised if the ratio didn't become more lopsided by the end of the draft...
 
1. I can think of a number that were Christians or who used Christianity to convince people to do what they wanted... More than any other one source for sure...2. Again, I can think of single things that might be greater, but the sheer number of good acts done in the name of Christianity outweigh any other source of inspiration...as with before, its about sheer # and amount of influence, not about specific acts... Look at it this way, you wanted to point out unitarians in the last draft...Do you really want me to point out every person in this draft who in some way was influenced by Jesus or who followed Jesus or lived in a country where the official religion was Christianity?? Because we are 2 for 3 right now and I would be greatly surprised if the ratio didn't become more lopsided by the end of the draft...
Living in a Christian world is not the same as being a devout Christian. As we examine the people from the west, post Jesus, who will be drafted in this thread , the vast majority of them have lived in a Christian world. Some of them were devout Christians. Some of them faked it to preserve their lives. And some of them were never really Christian at all. I have no idea if Shakespeare was a religious Christian. Some people believe he was a secret Catholic in a country of Protestants. Some experts think he was an atheist, based upon coded messages in his plays.
 
1. I can think of a number that were Christians or who used Christianity to convince people to do what they wanted... More than any other one source for sure...2. Again, I can think of single things that might be greater, but the sheer number of good acts done in the name of Christianity outweigh any other source of inspiration...as with before, its about sheer # and amount of influence, not about specific acts... Look at it this way, you wanted to point out unitarians in the last draft...Do you really want me to point out every person in this draft who in some way was influenced by Jesus or who followed Jesus or lived in a country where the official religion was Christianity?? Because we are 2 for 3 right now and I would be greatly surprised if the ratio didn't become more lopsided by the end of the draft...
Living in a Christian world is not the same as being a devout Christian. As we examine the people from the west, post Jesus, who will be drafted in this thread , the vast majority of them have lived in a Christian world. Some of them were devout Christians. Some of them faked it to preserve their lives. And some of them were never really Christian at all. I have no idea if Shakespeare was a religious Christian. Some people believe he was a secret Catholic in a country of Protestants. Some experts think he was an atheist, based upon coded messages in his plays.
my point is that Jesus had a major direct impact on their lives...No one else has had such a major impact on as many people's lives and on the world itself as Jesus....plus, according to some, he is God manifest in flesh and thus actually created the world... What's more influential than literally creating existence? :excited:
 
1. I can think of a number that were Christians or who used Christianity to convince people to do what they wanted... More than any other one source for sure...

2. Again, I can think of single things that might be greater, but the sheer number of good acts done in the name of Christianity outweigh any other source of inspiration...

as with before, its about sheer # and amount of influence, not about specific acts... Look at it this way, you wanted to point out unitarians in the last draft...

Do you really want me to point out every person in this draft who in some way was influenced by Jesus or who followed Jesus or lived in a country where the official religion was Christianity?? Because we are 2 for 3 right now and I would be greatly surprised if the ratio didn't become more lopsided by the end of the draft...
Living in a Christian world is not the same as being a devout Christian. As we examine the people from the west, post Jesus, who will be drafted in this thread , the vast majority of them have lived in a Christian world. Some of them were devout Christians. Some of them faked it to preserve their lives. And some of them were never really Christian at all. I have no idea if Shakespeare was a religious Christian. Some people believe he was a secret Catholic in a country of Protestants. Some experts think he was an atheist, based upon coded messages in his plays.
my point is that Jesus had a major direct impact on their lives...No one else has had such a major impact on as many people's lives and on the world itself as Jesus....

plus, according to some, he is God manifest in flesh and thus actually created the world... What's more influential than literally creating existence? :excited:
This cannot be attributed to him in terms of the draft since we took out the myths and legends. Jesus' divinity can't be a factor here. If you ascribe him as the son of or a third of God then he is ineligible.
 
No one else has had such a major impact on as many people's lives and on the world itself as Jesus....

plus, according to some, he is God manifest in flesh and thus actually created the world... What's more influential than literally creating existence? :excited:
I believe there are at least a couple of people who could be argued to have as much of a major impact on as many people's lives as Jesus of Nazareth. When they are drafted, I'll make the argument.As to your second point: of course, all my arguments are based upon a secular viewpoint of Jesus as a historical figure. If one accepts the Gospels and believes that Jesus Christ is God, then that would make all of my points irrelevant.

 
Well anyhow, been a fun first night of this and I am going to bed. Won't be around much tommorow, so if there are more picks, don't expect an update until sometime around tommorow afternoon.

 
Well anyhow, been a fun first night of this and I am going to bed. Won't be around much tommorow, so if there are more picks, don't expect an update until sometime around tommorow afternoon.
I as well will be out of touch for most of the day and if we get to pick 10 tomorrow then I apologize but it won't come until Thursday.
 
1. I can think of a number that were Christians or who used Christianity to convince people to do what they wanted... More than any other one source for sure...

2. Again, I can think of single things that might be greater, but the sheer number of good acts done in the name of Christianity outweigh any other source of inspiration...

as with before, its about sheer # and amount of influence, not about specific acts... Look at it this way, you wanted to point out unitarians in the last draft...

Do you really want me to point out every person in this draft who in some way was influenced by Jesus or who followed Jesus or lived in a country where the official religion was Christianity?? Because we are 2 for 3 right now and I would be greatly surprised if the ratio didn't become more lopsided by the end of the draft...
Living in a Christian world is not the same as being a devout Christian. As we examine the people from the west, post Jesus, who will be drafted in this thread , the vast majority of them have lived in a Christian world. Some of them were devout Christians. Some of them faked it to preserve their lives. And some of them were never really Christian at all. I have no idea if Shakespeare was a religious Christian. Some people believe he was a secret Catholic in a country of Protestants. Some experts think he was an atheist, based upon coded messages in his plays.
my point is that Jesus had a major direct impact on their lives...No one else has had such a major impact on as many people's lives and on the world itself as Jesus....

plus, according to some, he is God manifest in flesh and thus actually created the world... What's more influential than literally creating existence? :shrug:
This cannot be attributed to him in terms of the draft since we took out the myths and legends. Jesus' divinity can't be a factor here. If you ascribe him as the son of or a third of God then he is ineligible.
yes he is, because no matter what you attribute to him, he actually lived...
 
1. I can think of a number that were Christians or who used Christianity to convince people to do what they wanted... More than any other one source for sure...

2. Again, I can think of single things that might be greater, but the sheer number of good acts done in the name of Christianity outweigh any other source of inspiration...

as with before, its about sheer # and amount of influence, not about specific acts... Look at it this way, you wanted to point out unitarians in the last draft...

Do you really want me to point out every person in this draft who in some way was influenced by Jesus or who followed Jesus or lived in a country where the official religion was Christianity?? Because we are 2 for 3 right now and I would be greatly surprised if the ratio didn't become more lopsided by the end of the draft...
Living in a Christian world is not the same as being a devout Christian. As we examine the people from the west, post Jesus, who will be drafted in this thread , the vast majority of them have lived in a Christian world. Some of them were devout Christians. Some of them faked it to preserve their lives. And some of them were never really Christian at all. I have no idea if Shakespeare was a religious Christian. Some people believe he was a secret Catholic in a country of Protestants. Some experts think he was an atheist, based upon coded messages in his plays.
my point is that Jesus had a major direct impact on their lives...No one else has had such a major impact on as many people's lives and on the world itself as Jesus....

plus, according to some, he is God manifest in flesh and thus actually created the world... What's more influential than literally creating existence? :thumbup:
This cannot be attributed to him in terms of the draft since we took out the myths and legends. Jesus' divinity can't be a factor here. If you ascribe him as the son of or a third of God then he is ineligible.
yes he is, because no matter what you attribute to him, he actually lived...
We all agree on the point that he lived. However, I hope you're not using "he created all existence" as a basis for the pick.
 
We all agree on the point that he lived. However, I hope you're not using "he created all existence" as a basis for the pick.
not seriously...although it is a small part of my argument that many people believe he did...
I think most are trying to suggest to not even make it a part of the argument.
the part of my argument is that many BELIEVE He did...not that He actually did...does that make sense? :thumbup:
 
We all agree on the point that he lived. However, I hope you're not using "he created all existence" as a basis for the pick.
not seriously...although it is a small part of my argument that many people believe he did...
I think most are trying to suggest to not even make it a part of the argument.
While I agree that those things can't be attributed to him as accomplishments as perhaps they are just myths, but what people believe he did, or can do, or will do, is certainly part of his greatness. After all a lot of people believe Obama is going to do great things. He hasn't done much of anything yet, but the fact that so many people believe he will do great things is a significant part of his greatness.
 
A proposal to the drafters in order to make things a little easier for us all

see my first post #45 for an outline... or just click the red arrow next to the "9:13" below in the quote

(a little blurb if you wish about your pick)

(your pick in the below format)

1.01 - name - position

(back story of your person or history of with link either here or in above name)

(a reason why you chose said person, with no spot lighting)

(an update of your team with the information next to your pick for easy reading, clarification)

Your Team Here

Leaders - Sun Tzu (post #45)

Military -

Scientist -

Inventor -

Discoverer/Explorer -

Humanitarian/Saint/Martyr -

Novelist/Short stories -

Playwrights/Poets -

Villain -

Athlete -

Composer -

Musicians/Performers -

Painter -

Artist/Non-Painter -

Philosopher -

Religious Figure -

Celebrity -

Intellectual -

Rebel -

Wildcards -
 
While I agree that those things can't be attributed to him as accomplishments as perhaps they are just myths, but what people believe he did, or can do, or will do, is certainly part of his greatness. After all a lot of people believe Obama is going to do great things. He hasn't done much of anything yet, but the fact that so many people believe he will do great things is a significant part of his greatness.
I agree with you about what people believe he could do. But, that is a very slippery slope to deal with. Why? I won't consider the following as spot lighting because these next few will not sniff this draft at all but many people believed Jim Jones could do things, many people believed David Koresh could do things and other New Age faith based systems. If Jesus were alive today, I think he would be looked upon in a similar fashion to those individuals and would be categorized as New Age. While I know why the argument is stated as such... it is a very slippery slope to go down the "belief in God/belief he is God" path.
 
While I agree that those things can't be attributed to him as accomplishments as perhaps they are just myths, but what people believe he did, or can do, or will do, is certainly part of his greatness. After all a lot of people believe Obama is going to do great things. He hasn't done much of anything yet, but the fact that so many people believe he will do great things is a significant part of his greatness.
I agree with you about what people believe he could do. But, that is a very slippery slope to deal with. Why? I won't consider the following as spot lighting because these next few will not sniff this draft at all but many people believed Jim Jones could do things, many people believed David Koresh could do things and other New Age faith based systems. If Jesus were alive today, I think he would be looked upon in a similar fashion to those individuals and would be categorized as New Age. While I know why the argument is stated as such... it is a very slippery slope to go down the "belief in God/belief he is God" path.
The examples of Jim Jones and David Koresh actually drive home the point. Why do most people know of Jim Jones and David Koresh? Aren't there nut jobs in funny farms that spew the rhetoric that Jim Jones and David Koresh spewed? What's the difference between the nut jobs that no one has ever heard of and those two? The difference is people believed in those two. No one believes the nut jobs in the funny farms. But people actually believed Jim Jones and David Koresh. While you can speculate that if Jesus lived today he would be no more important than Jones and Koresh, that is just speculation. What we do know is that a huge percentage of the entire world still believe in the teachings of Jesus 2,000 years after his death. Perhaps the guy was a nut job who today would be lost in a funny farm and no one would ever no him from Sam. Perhaps the guy was a nut job who today would be another Jim Jones or David Koresh. The point is it doesn't matter if he was a nut job or whether he really did miracles. That's insignificant. What is significant is the amount of belief he produced. The only way to discount that belief is to speculate that had he lived at a different time he wouldn't have nearly the same following because after all he was just another nut job. But that's just speculation. If you want to be fair, you need to rate him on the belief that he actually produced. Not on what a nut job produces in another point of time of history.
 
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