World's Greatest Draft (2 Viewers)

[Doug B]

Well a guy that was once head of the Aristotelian Society is quoted as saying that "The safest general characterization of the European philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato."

So there.

But will our judge agree?

 

[Uncle Humuna]

When I made my pick of Alexander in R1 I was choosing between 4 people.

Alexander

Genghis Khan

Charles Darwin

The above 2 I’d put in a different categories to what they’ve been drafted under, but that’s another story.

My other choice is still here and I’m going to take it.

Tremendous value at this point and a phenomenon the likes of which we’ll probably never see again.

Their impact is still enormous now and will be in future.

They were the first singer/songwriters to go mega huge.

Each new release was a major event and they were Biiiiiig all over the world.

2:08 – The Beatles

Musicians/Performers

The Beatles were a rock and pop band from Liverpool, England that formed in 1960. During their career, the group primarily consisted of **** ******(rhythm guitar, vocals), **** *********(bass guitar, vocals), ****** ******** (lead guitar, vocals) and ***** ***** (drums, vocals). Although their initial musical style was rooted in 1950s rock and roll and skiffle, the group worked with different musical genres, ranging from Tin Pan Alley to psychedelic rock. Their clothes, style and statements made them trend-setters, while their growing social awareness saw their influence extend into the social and cultural revolutions of the 1960s. After the band broke up in 1970, all four members embarked upon successful solo careers.

The Beatles are one of the most commercially successful and critically acclaimed bands in the history of popular music, selling over one billion records internationally.[1] In the United Kingdom, The Beatles released more than 40 different singles, albums, and EPs that reached number one, earning more number one albums (15) than any other group in UK chart history. This commercial success was repeated in many other countries; their record company, EMI, estimated that by 1985 they had sold over one billion records worldwide.[2] According to the Recording Industry Association of America, The Beatles have sold more albums in the United States than any other band.[3] In 2004, Rolling Stone magazine ranked The Beatles number one on its list of 100 Greatest Artists of All Time.[4] According to that same magazine, The Beatles' innovative music and cultural impact helped define the 1960s, and their influence on pop culture is still evident today. In 2008, Billboard magazine released a list of top-selling Hot 100 artists to celebrate the chart's fiftieth anniversary; The Beatles topped it.[5]

Can we still take individual Beatles?

I would think not, I mean if Larry slots Jesus Christ as his religous, I can't take him later as my leader. Tim?

Another aside, IMHO, John Lennon will be a religious figure 1000 years from now . . .

 

[Doug B]

I wanted popular music, which means recorded music.

Basically, includes anyone who has chosen to record music rather than those who have chosen to simply write it down for

I wouldn't limit this to just recorded music, as some of the greatest musicians in history were never recorded.(I have at least a few in mind).

Oof. Hope you guys settle this soon.

 

[timschochet]

I wanted popular music, which means recorded music. Basically, includes anyone who has chosen to record music rather than those who have chosen to simply write it down for

I wouldn't limit this to just recorded music, as some of the greatest musicians in history were never recorded.(I have at least a few in mind).Also, another can of worms - recording is an art form unto itself.Kind of like the difference between acting and making movies.Not sure how much specific records should play into the judging.

Like nearly every other category, it's vague, and it can overlap, and some of the inventive people here will no doubt come up with intriguing loopholes. But I trust your integrity as a judge. You decide; you'll do a fine job.

 

[Big Rocks]

2.10 Galileo Galilei, scientist

Highlights:

--scientist who played a major role in the Scientific Revolution and is widely regarded as the 'father of modern science'

--improved the design of the telescope which led to many discoveries, including the phases of Venus, 4 moons of Jupiter, features of the moon, and sun spots

--his studies played a major role in understanding kinematics, a branch of classical mechanics

--contributed many ideas to the fields of astronomy, mathematics, and physics

--perhaps most famous for challenging the church's understanding of the universe, where Galileo supported the model of heliocentrism (sun at center of universe) instead of geocentrism (Earth at center of universe). He was forced to recant his beliefs and spent remaining years under house arrest

Quite simply, he's one of the world's greatest scientists and his beliefs and achievements helped change the world. His full bio is here.

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

Wow, people really like their Temujin 'round here.

Well when you consider what Ozymandias pointed out, how can you not. He banded together a disconnected groups of Mongol clans and transformed that into arguably the greatest empire in history.

The movie Mongol is very interesting if not a bit long.Supposedly part 1 of 3, but haven't heard any details of parts 2 & 3.

Part 1 dealt with his origins and ascention to power in Mongolia

 

[timschochet]

Gallileo is an outstanding pick at any time, and in the second round, it's probably the first legitimate SOD.

Gotta run, will update later!

 

[higgins]

Another thing to think about is that while UH is obviously a fantastic judge of music, this is eventually going to be voted on by the FFA -- who would they rate higher, (a) a more popular band that is known musically throughout the world but isn't that talented at their instruments, or (b) a masterful talent at multiple instruments/styles that is without the fame or played in a bygone era? Even given instructions, the FFA would merely scroll down and pick (a).

Given that fact, is our goal as drafters to draft the best team we want, or the one with the best chance to win? I know my answer, but this should be taken into consideration.

 

[Doug B]

2.09 Galileo Galilei ...

Galileo,galileo,Galileo galileo

Galileo figaro

Magnifico ... oh oh oh ...

EDIT: Man, I suck at lyrics

 

[Andy Dufresne]

2.09 Galileo Galilei ...

... magnifico ... oh oh oh ...

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

Lincoln is obviously one of the greatest of American heroes, (and in my opinion, our greatest President, though Andy ranked him #3), but I'm wondering what the rest of the world thinks of him. The United States is such a new country compared to most of the world. If you're a student in Italy or Japan, do you think Lincoln is a name you learn about? Just wondering...

As a student in the Australian education system we learnt very little if anything on US presidents outside xxxxxxxxx and Presidents during WWI & WWII. Once History became a choice rather than a necessity, students could choose to do things like the American revolution or the Civil War, but most students in Australia will know the name, but little else.I learnt a lot on my own time, but it would scratch the surface of what you're fed.We got Europe up the ### in History, but little else (Even Australia, which has less history than the US)

Please be careful, JML. Thanks.

Damn. This spotlighting business is much harder than in the music or movie drafts. Will try (again) to be more careful

 

[Ozymandias]

Lincoln is obviously one of the greatest of American heroes, (and in my opinion, our greatest President, though Andy ranked him #3), but I'm wondering what the rest of the world thinks of him. The United States is such a new country compared to most of the world. If you're a student in Italy or Japan, do you think Lincoln is a name you learn about? Just wondering...

As a student in the Australian education system we learnt very little if anything on US presidents outside XXXXXXXXXXX and Presidents during WWI & WWII. Once History became a choice rather than a necessity, students could choose to do things like the American revolution or the Civil War, but most students in Australia will know the name, but little else.I learnt a lot on my own time, but it would scratch the surface of what you're fed.We got Europe up the ### in History, but little else (Even Australia, which has less history than the US)

Well you must have heard about Simpson and his donkey (this is not a joke, but a real story of heroism in the Dardanelles), and Banjo Paterson may well make the Great Composers list.

 

[Uncle Humuna]

2. In answer to various questions, now that the Beatles have been taken, Paul McCartney, John Lennon, Ringo Starr, and George Harrison can no longer be drafted (neither can Pete Best, should you be so inclined.)

Yet another can of worms.This leads to a VERY slippery slope in other genres, where many leaders had groups with players that would go on to have their own groups.We've dealt with this issue before in music drafts, and I would propose that the same rules apply:For groups with specific leaders (the leader being in the name of the group), the bandmembers remain eligible as leaders of their own groups.(e.g. If someone picks Joan Jett & The Blackhearts, members of the Blackhearts would still be draftable, assuming they went on to form their own bands - basically, only Joan Jett would be off the board).

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

This thread is like crack... I want to pick again so badly it almost physically hurts.

 

[flysack]

To put it as succinctly as possible -

Without Plato, we know nothing of Socrates.

Without Plato, there is no Aristotle.

Socrates was a character in Plato's dialogues. How much of that character is the real Socrates or Plato's character is a matter of volumes of debate. Generally, the early dialogues are accepted as "genuine" Socrates. But it's all fuzzy and gray.

Aristotle was more polymath than Plato, and Western science and poetics owe more to Aristotle, but metaphysics and law owe far more to Plato. The Forms were basically the unquestioned foundation of Western metaphysics until XXXXX came around in the 20th century. It's worthy to note that both Western science and most Western religions shared that metaphysical assumption.

1. Plato

2. Aristotle

3. Socrates

I say this, despite personally preferring Socrates FAR over the other two. But in terms of stature and importance, Plato is the man.

 

[Fennis]

2.09 Galileo Galilei ...

Galileo,galileo,Galileo galileo

Galileo figaro

Magnifico ... oh oh oh ...

EDIT: Man, I suck at lyrics

even better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIJeZ4MIXgII was going to post this after Newton was taken, but couldn't due to Galieo spotlighting.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

To put it as succinctly as possible -Without Plato, we know nothing of Socrates.Without Plato, there is no Aristotle.Socrates was a character in Plato's dialogues. How much of that character is the real Socrates or Plato's character is a matter of volumes of debate. Generally, the early dialogues are accepted as "genuine" Socrates. But it's all fuzzy and gray. Aristotle was more polymath than Plato, and Western science and poetics owe more to Aristotle, but metaphysics and law owe far more to Plato. The Forms were basically the unquestioned foundation of Western metaphysics until XXXXX came around in the 20th century. It's worthy to note that both Western science and most Western religions shared that metaphysical assumption. 1. Plato 2. Aristotle3. SocratesI say this, despite personally preferring Socrates FAR over the other two. But in terms of stature and importance, Plato is the man.

 

[mad sweeney]

Wow, people really like their Temujin 'round here.

Well when you consider what Ozymandias pointed out, how can you not. He banded together a disconnected groups of Mongol clans and transformed that into arguably the greatest empire in history.

The movie Mongol is very interesting if not a bit long.Supposedly part 1 of 3, but haven't heard any details of parts 2 & 3.

Part 1 dealt with his origins and ascention to power in Mongolia

Part 2 is scheduled to be released early 2011 IIRC.

 

[Usual21]

2.09 Galileo Galilei, scientist

Highlights:

--scientist who played a major role in the Scientific Revolution and is widely regarded as the 'father of modern science'

--improved the design of the telescope which led to many discoveries, including the phases of Venus, 4 moons of Jupiter, features of the moon, and sun spots

--his studies played a major role in understanding kinematics, a branch of classical mechanics

--contributed many ideas to the fields of astronomy, mathematics, and physics

--perhaps most famous for challenging the church's understanding of the universe, where Galileo supported the model of heliocentrism (sun at center of universe) instead of geocentrism (Earth at center of universe). He was forced to recant his beliefs and spent remaining years under house arrest

Quite simply, he's one of the world's greatest scientists and his beliefs and achievements helped change the world. His full bio is here.

Knew he wouldn't make it back to me in round 3.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Galileo is a great pick. 20 people are too many in this draft. Too much talent slipping away here in between picks.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Galileo is a great pick. 20 people are too many in this draft. Too much talent slipping away here in between picks.

I am unconcerned.

 

[FUBAR]

And even if Andy is right and only the presence of a Lincoln prevents a permanent Confederacy, I could list over a dozen heads of state throughout history who either invaded or prevented invasions which, had they taken place or not taken place, would have completely altered the course of human civilization as we know it. This is 5,000 years of recorded human action we're talking about, and we need to come up with the 20 greatest leaders. Even under the qualification that Andy makes, I STILL don't know if Lincoln is anywhere close to the top of this category.

I do. and the answer is no.

 

[Mixlflick1]

2.09 Galileo Galilei ...

Galileo,galileo,Galileo galileo

Galileo figaro

Magnifico ... oh oh oh ...

EDIT: Man, I suck at lyrics

even better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIJeZ4MIXgII was going to post this after Newton was taken, but couldn't due to Galieo spotlighting.

First thing I thought of, too!

 

[Thorn]

Wow, people really like their Temujin 'round here.

Well when you consider what Ozymandias pointed out, how can you not. He banded together a disconnected groups of Mongol clans and transformed that into arguably the greatest empire in history.

The movie Mongol is very interesting if not a bit long.Supposedly part 1 of 3, but haven't heard any details of parts 2 & 3.

Part 1 dealt with his origins and ascention to power in Mongolia

Part 2 is scheduled to be released early 2011 IIRC.

Dude you're up.ETA: big rocks' pick was actually 2.10, not 2.09.

 

[Ozymandias]

2.09 Galileo Galilei ...

Galileo,galileo,Galileo galileo

Galileo figaro

Magnifico ... oh oh oh ...

EDIT: Man, I suck at lyrics

even better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIJeZ4MIXgII was going to post this after Newton was taken, but couldn't due to Galieo spotlighting.

First thing I thought of, too!

Actually, it wasn't so much spotlighting as bringing a telescope to bear.

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

Wow, people really like their Temujin 'round here.

Well when you consider what Ozymandias pointed out, how can you not. He banded together a disconnected groups of Mongol clans and transformed that into arguably the greatest empire in history.

The movie Mongol is very interesting if not a bit long.Supposedly part 1 of 3, but haven't heard any details of parts 2 & 3.

Part 1 dealt with his origins and ascention to power in Mongolia

Part 2 is scheduled to be released early 2011 IIRC.

Cool

 

[FUBAR]

Obviously I consider Abraham Lincoln worthy of this draft. It seems to me in reading these posts that there is a feeling that a Greatest World draft such as this should somehow not include America, or at least, anyone that values America too high is simply not looking into history with an open eye towards greatness.My American biases aside, it will be foolish to simply discount Americans because they are Americans and instead turn all focus to the empires of antiquity. There are several Americans that can be drafted in each category. Someone mentioned that they don't want to see white Europe overrepresented here. Let's not fall for the ideal that American has no history and therefore no greatness that matches the empires of the past.

Fair points, but I think it's true that American presidents are, by and large, going to have a hard time measuring up against those who ruled for much longer periods of time and had much more authoritarian control over their empires.

I stated my criteria for leaders earlier:

It's not only their time as a leader, what their country accomplished, but also their lasting influence.

What is Abe's lasting influence? Well, perhaps it is the greatness that America became. But it's difficult to evaluate that just yet in contrast to the true dynasties in history. Right now, I believe I have Abe somewhere in the 4-10 ranking, subject to change and depends on which leaders are drafted in another category.

 

[mad sweeney]

Wow, people really like their Temujin 'round here.

Well when you consider what Ozymandias pointed out, how can you not. He banded together a disconnected groups of Mongol clans and transformed that into arguably the greatest empire in history.

The movie Mongol is very interesting if not a bit long.Supposedly part 1 of 3, but haven't heard any details of parts 2 & 3.

Part 1 dealt with his origins and ascention to power in Mongolia

Part 2 is scheduled to be released early 2011 IIRC.

Dude you're up.ETA: big rocks' pick was actually 2.10, not 2.09.

Thanks, I did know that though. Making my hard choice and doing a writeup now. Didn't get a PM which may be something most of us are forgetting to do after we make our picks.

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

Lincoln is obviously one of the greatest of American heroes, (and in my opinion, our greatest President, though Andy ranked him #3), but I'm wondering what the rest of the world thinks of him. The United States is such a new country compared to most of the world. If you're a student in Italy or Japan, do you think Lincoln is a name you learn about? Just wondering...

As a student in the Australian education system we learnt very little if anything on US presidents outside XXXXXXXXXXX and Presidents during WWI & WWII. Once History became a choice rather than a necessity, students could choose to do things like the American revolution or the Civil War, but most students in Australia will know the name, but little else.I learnt a lot on my own time, but it would scratch the surface of what you're fed.We got Europe up the ### in History, but little else (Even Australia, which has less history than the US)

Well you must have heard about Simpson and his donkey (this is not a joke, but a real story of heroism in the Dardanelles), and XXXX XXXX may well make the Great Composers list.

Australia has a public holiday for Anzac Day (April 25th), where they got a bunch of diggers (Old Soldiers) out to parade in front of school children. They have this the day before the 25th in SchoolsThe Simpson story is one that deservedly gets repeated often.Anzac Day was Australia's first real foray into war and Gallipoli was carnage, but it gave Australia an IdentityHe may, but I think he probably won't. Would be good if someone did.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Dude you're up.

ETA: big rocks' pick was actually 2.10, not 2.09.

Thanks, I did know that though. Making my hard choice and doing a writeup now. Didn't get a PM which may be something most of us are forgetting to do after we make our picks.

We'll start pushing a little harder with reminders and PMs once the clock is officially on; for now, in theory, it's take your time and ease into it.Theoretically...pretty good mo for a draft that hasn't started yet.

 

[flysack]

Some quality picks out there have slipped through the cracks. I'm surprised a few of them have lasted this long.

I can think of two #1 guys in their category who have fallen. That's not counting "celebrity" either, which I see as a lesser category since it's basically a 20th century invention/phenomenon.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Australia has a public holiday for Anzac Day (April 25th), where they got a bunch of diggers (Old Soldiers) out to parade in front of school children. They have this the day before the 25th in SchoolsThe Simpson story is one that deservedly gets repeated often.Anzac Day was Australia's first real foray into war and Gallipoli was carnage, but it gave Australia an IdentityHe may, but I think he probably won't. Would be good if someone did.

Not sure how well known it is outside the commonwealth nations, but that's a huge day for Oz and New Zealand (ANZAC stands for Australian and New Zealand Army Corps). We had a ton of expats from both countries in my old nabe in Brooklyn, they used to take over the local British pub on that day.Sort of like Cinco de Mayo...you may not know what it's all about, but as an excuse to get drunk, easy to get behind it.

 

[mad sweeney]

This was a very hard choice for me to make between 2 1/2 guys. The half guy might be a lot sexier and would possibly fare better in the playoff polls but he was removed rather quickly as I examined the bodies of work and strength in separate categories where he is high in a few but not high enough in any to take here.

As for the other 2, well that choice was just a #####. And so will the writeup be since it will be next to impossible to discuss his accomplishments without spotlighting, though in all fairness it isn't really spotlighting since the name alone will be enough.



2.11 Augustus Caesar Leader

After taking over the Republic, Augustus firmly established the Roman Empire and ushered into an unprecedented stability. Choosing rather than to work feverishly to expand the borders he instead looked largely inward to cement the Empire for centuries to come. He is largely regarded as the greatest Emperor of Rome, as evidenced by the adoption of his use of the name, and not because of his father, for all Emperors to come as well as their derivations in a large assortment of languages throughout history.

The rule of Augustus initiated an era of relative peace known as the Pax Romana, or Roman peace. Despite continuous frontier wars, and one year-long civil war over the imperial succession, the Mediterranean world remained at peace for more than two centuries. Augustus expanded the Roman Empire, secured its boundaries with client states, and made peace with Parthia through diplomacy. He reformed the Roman system of taxation, developed networks of roads with an official courier system, established a standing army (and a small navy), established the Praetorian Guard, and created official police and fire-fighting forces for Rome. Much of the city was rebuilt under Augustus; and he wrote a record of his own accomplishments, known as the Res Gestae Divi Augusti, which has survived. Upon his death in AD 14, Augustus was declared a god by the Senate, to be worshipped by the Romans.[4] His names Augustus and Caesar were adopted by every subsequent emperor, and the month of Sextilis was officially renamed August in his honour. .

He summed it up best with a deathbed quote- "I found Rome of bricks; I leave it to you of marble"It was a very hard pick to make because I think the other I might've chosen has had more lasting influence on our modern world, though he would likely not have had an ounce of power if not for Augustus. Again, this goes towards my defining of greatness as accomplishment rather than lasting effect. Still I am happy with the pick at the least I believe I have the only person eligible in this draft for whom a month is named

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Some quality picks out there have slipped through the cracks. I'm surprised a few of them have lasted this long. I can think of two #1 guys in their category who have fallen. That's not counting "celebrity" either, which I see as a lesser category since it's basically a 20th century invention/phenomenon.

If I could, I'd be trying to trade up right now.

 

[Fennis]

This was a very hard choice for me to make between 2 1/2 guys. The half guy might be a lot sexier and would possibly fare better in the playoff polls but he was removed rather quickly as I examined the bodies of work and strength in separate categories where he is high in a few but not high enough in any to take here.

1/2 guy? Napoleon was already taken.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

This was a very hard choice for me to make between 2 1/2 guys. The half guy might be a lot sexier and would possibly fare better in the playoff polls but he was removed rather quickly as I examined the bodies of work and strength in separate categories where he is high in a few but not high enough in any to take here.

1/2 guy? Napoleon was already taken.

And it's far too early for John Wayne Bobbit.

 

[Ozymandias]

This was a very hard choice for me to make between 2 1/2 guys. The half guy might be a lot sexier and would possibly fare better in the playoff polls but he was removed rather quickly as I examined the bodies of work and strength in separate categories where he is high in a few but not high enough in any to take here.

1/2 guy? Napoleon was already taken.

And it's far too early for John Wayne Bobbit.

But his wife might make it in Round 3.

 

[FUBAR]

This was a very hard choice for me to make between 2 1/2 guys. The half guy might be a lot sexier and would possibly fare better in the playoff polls but he was removed rather quickly as I examined the bodies of work and strength in separate categories where he is high in a few but not high enough in any to take here.

1/2 guy? Napoleon was already taken.

Verne Troyer celebrity?

 

[mad sweeney]

This was a very hard choice for me to make between 2 1/2 guys. The half guy might be a lot sexier and would possibly fare better in the playoff polls but he was removed rather quickly as I examined the bodies of work and strength in separate categories where he is high in a few but not high enough in any to take here.

1/2 guy? Napoleon was already taken.

Verne Troyer celebrity?

He's closer to 1/4. I worked with him once. It's impossible to imagine how small he actually is. He doesn't even come to my waist.The 1/2 just meant that he kept creeping into my head for the pick but was easily dismissed. But he was damn persistent.

 

[flysack]

2.11 Augustus Caesar Leader

BAM! There's one of the guys I was thinking of. Augustus is the #1 Leader IMO. Some might say he rode his daddy's coattails, but a closer look proves otherwise

Daddy made himself a King, which was an old term despised by the Romans, and why daddy ended up becoming senate's personal pincushion.

Augustus was the first emperor of the most dominant and influential empire in human history. He didn't slide into the role, first he fought a nasty civil war against two very powerful competitors. After winning, he lived a very long life devoted to both civic and military expansion that ensured Rome would be the most dominant force in the world for centuries to come.

Without Augustus, it's very possible the Rome would have reverted back to a republic of corrupt, self-serving politicians, who would have ran it into the ground within 100 years.

Augustus made Rome an empire.

As far as leaders go, I can't see anyone topping what he did.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

2.11 Augustus Caesar Leader

BAM! There's one of the guys I was thinking of. Augustus is the #1 Leader IMO. Some might say he rode his daddy's coattails, but a closer look proves otherwise

Daddy made himself a King, which was an old term despised by the Romans, and why daddy ended up becoming senate's personal pincushion.

Augustus was the first emperor of the most dominant and influential empire in human history. He didn't slide into the role, first he fought a nasty civil war against two very powerful competitors. After winning, he lived a very long life devoted to both civic and military expansion that ensured Rome would be the most dominant force in the world for centuries to come.

Without Augustus, it's very possible the Rome would have reverted back to a republic of corrupt, self-serving politicians, who would have ran it into the ground within 100 years.

Augustus made Rome an empire.

As far as leaders go, I can't see anyone topping what he did.

I think he's #2, but just by a tiny bit. Hard to argue his selction at this point though.

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

Augustus is a great pick, but he did not inherit his fathers empire.

He was adopted by his Great Uncle, who has yet to be picked

 

[flysack]

2.11 Augustus Caesar Leader

BAM! There's one of the guys I was thinking of. Augustus is the #1 Leader IMO. Some might say he rode his daddy's coattails, but a closer look proves otherwise

Daddy made himself a King, which was an old term despised by the Romans, and why daddy ended up becoming senate's personal pincushion.

Augustus was the first emperor of the most dominant and influential empire in human history. He didn't slide into the role, first he fought a nasty civil war against two very powerful competitors. After winning, he lived a very long life devoted to both civic and military expansion that ensured Rome would be the most dominant force in the world for centuries to come.

Without Augustus, it's very possible the Rome would have reverted back to a republic of corrupt, self-serving politicians, who would have ran it into the ground within 100 years.

Augustus made Rome an empire.

As far as leaders go, I can't see anyone topping what he did.

I think he's #2, but just by a tiny bit. Hard to argue his selction at this point though.

I'm interested in knowing who you think the greater leader is. There's a number of people I'd consider second tier after Augustus, but no one is his equal.

 

[dparker713]

Augustus is a great pick, but he did not inherit his fathers empire.He was adopted by his Great Uncle, who has yet to be picked

And quite frankly, its not hard to argue that Alexander's empire was more influential. Afterall, the language of the Roman Empire wasn't Latin, it was Koine Greek.

 

[flysack]

Augustus is a great pick, but he did not inherit his fathers empire.

He was adopted by his Great Uncle, who has yet to be picked

Read the bold carefully and get back to me. That "Great Uncle" adopted him as his son and chosen heir. Without the "son" part, his REAL son would've laid claim to the throne, assuming the senate and army would have accepted him (they wouldn't have).

See, Daddy banged this smoking hot Egyptian gal with blue eyes and fluctuating weight issues. She gave birth to a son, I believe. When "Daddy" decided to adopt a new son, that act kicked his original son to the gutter and pissed off the blue eyed Egyptian girl. She promptly started banging some other prominent Roman and...ah nevermind. It's too long to write. Read the wikipedia entry. It ends with blue eyes get funky with an asp.

EDT: I agree that he didn't inherit his daddy's empire. As far as I can recall, it wasn't an empire until Augustus made it so.

 

[mad sweeney]

Augustus is a great pick, but he did not inherit his fathers empire.He was adopted by his Great Uncle, who has yet to be picked

And when he was adopted, that uncle became Augustus' father, no?I used inherited loosely for brevity which perhaps I shouldn't do. There was much work to be done, including a civil war before he adopted the mantle.In fact, Augustus took great pains to at least try and appear to not be creating a succession based on inheritance despite the fact that he groomed ad opted and/or arranged by marriage children to succeed him.I edited the original post to change some poor wording choices.

 

[flysack]

Augustus is a great pick, but he did not inherit his fathers empire.He was adopted by his Great Uncle, who has yet to be picked

And quite frankly, its not hard to argue that Alexander's empire was more influential. Afterall, the language of the Roman Empire wasn't Latin, it was Koine Greek.

Perhaps. But Alexander was a greater general than leader. All he did was march and conquer. He didn't stop until a year or two before he died. Hell, he didn't even make it back home. He died at the age of 33 in Babylon, if my memory is correct. His empire might have been more influential, but it was much shorter lived. The reason for its short lifespan was it depended on nonstop expansion. He did very little in the way of infrastructure and civics - he just conquered. As soon as the mighty general died, the armies dispersed among his generals, and the empire folded. Not so with Augustus' empire.

 

[flysack]

Augustus is a great pick, but he did not inherit his fathers empire.

He was adopted by his Great Uncle, who has yet to be picked

And when he was adopted, that uncle became Augustus' father, no?I used inherited loosely for brevity which perhaps I shouldn't do. There was much work to be done, including a civil war before he adopted the mantle.

In fact, Augustus took great pains to at least try and appear to not be creating a succession based on inheritance despite the fact that he groomed ad opted and/or arranged by marriage children to succeed him.

Yes and yes. Drawing lines too closely to Daddy could inspire people to treat him the same way (EPIC pincushion FAIL). Augustus was a political genius.

 

[thecatch]

2.11 Augustus Caesar Leader

BAM! There's one of the guys I was thinking of. Augustus is the #1 Leader IMO. Some might say he rode his daddy's coattails, but a closer look proves otherwise

Daddy made himself a King, which was an old term despised by the Romans, and why daddy ended up becoming senate's personal pincushion.

Augustus was the first emperor of the most dominant and influential empire in human history. He didn't slide into the role, first he fought a nasty civil war against two very powerful competitors. After winning, he lived a very long life devoted to both civic and military expansion that ensured Rome would be the most dominant force in the world for centuries to come.

Without Augustus, it's very possible the Rome would have reverted back to a republic of corrupt, self-serving politicians, who would have ran it into the ground within 100 years.

Augustus made Rome an empire.

As far as leaders go, I can't see anyone topping what he did.

I agree with most of this. Augustus is the guy I referred to earlier as the #1 leader in my book.

 

[mad sweeney]

For the record, PM was sent to DougB within moments of my pick.