Worst Head Coach to win a Super Bowl? (1 Viewer)

[MrSoup]

Lovie Smith was almost on this list.

 

[southeastjerome]

Switzer was the only name that came to mind when I read the poll.

 

[Raider Nation]

Tony Dungy! I don't even give him credit for that win. He stepped into it like Switzer did.

Let's start when he was the DC of the MN Vikings under Denny Green. You might want to look back and see the type of DLines he unleashed on the NFL. He turned John Randle into perhaps a HoF inductee. Next he takes over the poorest most dicombobulated horrible excuse for an NFL franchise in the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and turns them into a winner and also makes HoF candidates like Warren Sapp, Derrick Brooks, John Lynch, Rhonde Barber, that was one of the best defenses ever constructed and they did win a SB the season after he left.

In regard to the bolded, maybe someone can educate me here. I seriously don't know the answer.Yes, Dungy was the DC of the Vikings. But he played the game as a DB. Can we really give him credit for developing a stud DL? Did he put Randle in the right schemes? Sure. But technique work? Isn't that what the defensive line coach is responsible for? D-line coaches almost always played D-line in the league themselves. The DC can't do everything. He has to delegate at some point to let his coaches teach.

No?

 

[Raider Nation]

BTW, glad this thread ended up spawning some intelligent discussion.

Wow, Switzer is killing it.

 

[Don Quixote]

Tony Dungy! I don't even give him credit for that win. He stepped into it like Switzer did.

Let's start when he was the DC of the MN Vikings under Denny Green. You might want to look back and see the type of DLines he unleashed on the NFL. He turned John Randle into perhaps a HoF inductee. Next he takes over the poorest most dicombobulated horrible excuse for an NFL franchise in the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and turns them into a winner and also makes HoF candidates like Warren Sapp, Derrick Brooks, John Lynch, Rhonde Barber, that was one of the best defenses ever constructed and they did win a SB the season after he left. He then goes to another sorry franchise that never won much and he ends up building a decent pass rushing defense and wins the Super Bowl. The season afte rhe elaves they go to the SB again.

In 13 seasons he avg about 11 wins a year with 2 of the worst franchises in NFL history. 139-69 record or a 2:1 ratio in wins to losses, 1-0 in the Super Bowl, and you can be assured if he wanted to coach again tomorrow that teams would line up. He is a 1st ballot HoF coach and not that it matters but he was the 1st black HC to ever win the SB so he broke through a lot of barriers in order to get there. His son committed suicide the year before he won the Super Bowl too, guy overcame a lot to lift the Lombardi Trophy up.

He has a new book coming out, you would be wise to pick it up and read it. He also on top of being a great coach is an amazing human being and community leader, I find that to count for something as well.

Look, Dungy is a great man and a great coach, no doubt about it. Yes, teams would line up to sign him. Those things do not by themselves equate to HOF coach, nor to "first ballot" HOF coach. Frankly, I think if he were white, he would be a HOF bubble candidate at best, but I think the first black coach to win a Super Bowl is enough to put him over the top.That said, I don't think of him as being among the best of the best all time, which is what calling him a first ballot lock suggests to me. He didn't win multiple championships, and, in fact, his teams were frequently disappointing in the postseason. He is not widely regarded as an innovator of the game along the lines of Paul Brown or Bill Walsh. He didn't compile a particularly lengthy record of success in comparison to other HOF coaches.

Anyway, just to be clear, you are projecting Dungy to be in the HOF class of 2014 if he does not coach again in the NFL. Meaning no more than 4 players can join him in that class (not including Senior Committee nominees).

I think you are wrong. We'll see.

I thought Dungy was considered an innovator? "Tampa 2" clearly borrowed a lot from Pittsburgh, but it was definitely different.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Tony Dungy! I don't even give him credit for that win. He stepped into it like Switzer did.

Let's start when he was the DC of the MN Vikings under Denny Green. You might want to look back and see the type of DLines he unleashed on the NFL. He turned John Randle into perhaps a HoF inductee. Next he takes over the poorest most dicombobulated horrible excuse for an NFL franchise in the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and turns them into a winner and also makes HoF candidates like Warren Sapp, Derrick Brooks, John Lynch, Rhonde Barber, that was one of the best defenses ever constructed and they did win a SB the season after he left.

In regard to the bolded, maybe someone can educate me here. I seriously don't know the answer.Yes, Dungy was the DC of the Vikings. But he played the game as a DB. Can we really give him credit for developing a stud DL? Did he put Randle in the right schemes? Sure. But technique work? Isn't that what the defensive line coach is responsible for? D-line coaches almost always played D-line in the league themselves. The DC can't do everything. He has to delegate at some point to let his coaches teach.

No?

They went form 33 in 1991 to 51 in 1992...that's an increase of over 50% once he arrived on the scene. Doleman and Randle were on both of those teams. In 1993 it was 45, combined that is close to 100 sacks in 2 years. Tampa Bay in 1995 had 25 sacks, then Dungy gets there and they post 35 in 1996, a 40% increase. 1997 they went up to 44, but that was all Monte Kiffin right?

You can't teach the unteachable and anyone that doesn't think Dungy was one of the best head coaches in his era isn't thinking clearly. When I look at great teams and great coaching you always want to weigh the competition and he had it with New England and Bill Belichick who Indy went toe to toe with much like San Fran did vs Dallas in the early to mid 90s, same feud with NE/Indy in the early to mid 2000s where they combined for 4 Super Bowls.

People can doubt it all they want, even GregR is not wanting to admit Dungy is a terrific coach but manages to write that he thinks Dungy will go 1st ballot HoF. 148 wins in 13 seasons, a Super Bowl ring, and plenty of HoF candidates under his watchful eye, there is no question he is going to the HoF and he's a good guy to boot. We need more Tony Dungys in the world.

 

[dgreen]

To be fair, no rational person would nominate a coach who has won two or more Super Bowls. You don't win 2+ championships by accident, even if you have superb assistants. That takes 12 coaches out of the equation right off the bat.

Flores - 2

Seifert - 2

Right or wrong, I'm guessing these guys would get some votes here if they were poll choice.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

I voted Mike Tomlin.

pretty much coasted off of Cowher and LeBeau

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I voted Mike Tomlin. pretty much coasted off of Cowher and LeBeau

Are the wheels coming off that quickly or what?

 

[Tau837]

Tony Dungy! I don't even give him credit for that win. He stepped into it like Switzer did.

Let's start when he was the DC of the MN Vikings under Denny Green. You might want to look back and see the type of DLines he unleashed on the NFL. He turned John Randle into perhaps a HoF inductee. Next he takes over the poorest most dicombobulated horrible excuse for an NFL franchise in the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and turns them into a winner and also makes HoF candidates like Warren Sapp, Derrick Brooks, John Lynch, Rhonde Barber, that was one of the best defenses ever constructed and they did win a SB the season after he left. He then goes to another sorry franchise that never won much and he ends up building a decent pass rushing defense and wins the Super Bowl. The season afte rhe elaves they go to the SB again.

In 13 seasons he avg about 11 wins a year with 2 of the worst franchises in NFL history. 139-69 record or a 2:1 ratio in wins to losses, 1-0 in the Super Bowl, and you can be assured if he wanted to coach again tomorrow that teams would line up. He is a 1st ballot HoF coach and not that it matters but he was the 1st black HC to ever win the SB so he broke through a lot of barriers in order to get there. His son committed suicide the year before he won the Super Bowl too, guy overcame a lot to lift the Lombardi Trophy up.

He has a new book coming out, you would be wise to pick it up and read it. He also on top of being a great coach is an amazing human being and community leader, I find that to count for something as well.

Look, Dungy is a great man and a great coach, no doubt about it. Yes, teams would line up to sign him. Those things do not by themselves equate to HOF coach, nor to "first ballot" HOF coach. Frankly, I think if he were white, he would be a HOF bubble candidate at best, but I think the first black coach to win a Super Bowl is enough to put him over the top.That said, I don't think of him as being among the best of the best all time, which is what calling him a first ballot lock suggests to me. He didn't win multiple championships, and, in fact, his teams were frequently disappointing in the postseason. He is not widely regarded as an innovator of the game along the lines of Paul Brown or Bill Walsh. He didn't compile a particularly lengthy record of success in comparison to other HOF coaches.

Anyway, just to be clear, you are projecting Dungy to be in the HOF class of 2014 if he does not coach again in the NFL. Meaning no more than 4 players can join him in that class (not including Senior Committee nominees).

I think you are wrong. We'll see.

I thought Dungy was considered an innovator? "Tampa 2" clearly borrowed a lot from Pittsburgh, but it was definitely different.

I'm pretty sure Monte Kiffin is considered to be the "father" of the "Tampa 2" defense, not Dungy. So whatever credit there is for that innovation really goes to Kiffin IMO.

 

[Don Quixote]

I thought Dungy was considered an innovator? "Tampa 2" clearly borrowed a lot from Pittsburgh, but it was definitely different.

I'm pretty sure Monte Kiffin is considered to be the "father" of the "Tampa 2" defense, not Dungy. So whatever credit there is for that innovation really goes to Kiffin IMO.

I'm pretty sure both are considered the "fathers" of it. Its origin is the Cover-2 which Dungy implemented as DC in Minnesota, with Kiffin underneath him, with their tweaks. They then brought it to TB. Giving all of the credit to Kiffin, and none to Dungy, is selling Dungy short, IMO.ETA: See this post from Jene.

 

[Tau837]

I thought Dungy was considered an innovator? "Tampa 2" clearly borrowed a lot from Pittsburgh, but it was definitely different.

I'm pretty sure Monte Kiffin is considered to be the "father" of the "Tampa 2" defense, not Dungy. So whatever credit there is for that innovation really goes to Kiffin IMO.

I'm pretty sure both are considered the "fathers" of it. Its origin is the Cover-2 which Dungy implemented as DC in Minnesota, with Kiffin underneath him, with their tweaks. They then brought it to TB. Giving all of the credit to Kiffin, and none to Dungy, is selling Dungy short, IMO.

Well, I could be off base on this for sure. However, I was of the understanding that the Tampa 2 was a defense they used in Tampa. It no doubt had some origins in Minnesota (and even further back in the Steel Curtain defense of the 1970s), but I always assumed the Tampa version was different enough that it warranted a nickname with "Tampa" in the name. Kiffin was the DC in Tampa, while Dungy was head coach and thus less responsible for the defense than Kiffin.FWIW, Kiffin's Wikipedia page says this: "Monte Kiffin is the mastermind behind the Tampa 2 scheme, which is a slight modification of Tony Dungy's Cover 2."On the other hand, Dungy's page credits both Dungy and Kiffin. And the Tampa 2 page credits both of them.

 

[Zoomanji]

Tom Flores

/thread

 

[Don Quixote]

I thought Dungy was considered an innovator? "Tampa 2" clearly borrowed a lot from Pittsburgh, but it was definitely different.

I'm pretty sure Monte Kiffin is considered to be the "father" of the "Tampa 2" defense, not Dungy. So whatever credit there is for that innovation really goes to Kiffin IMO.

I'm pretty sure both are considered the "fathers" of it. Its origin is the Cover-2 which Dungy implemented as DC in Minnesota, with Kiffin underneath him, with their tweaks. They then brought it to TB. Giving all of the credit to Kiffin, and none to Dungy, is selling Dungy short, IMO.

Well, I could be off base on this for sure. However, I was of the understanding that the Tampa 2 was a defense they used in Tampa. It no doubt had some origins in Minnesota (and even further back in the Steel Curtain defense of the 1970s), but I always assumed the Tampa version was different enough that it warranted a nickname with "Tampa" in the name. Kiffin was the DC in Tampa, while Dungy was head coach and thus less responsible for the defense than Kiffin.FWIW, Kiffin's Wikipedia page says this: "Monte Kiffin is the mastermind behind the Tampa 2 scheme, which is a slight modification of Tony Dungy's Cover 2."On the other hand, Dungy's page credits both Dungy and Kiffin. And the Tampa 2 page credits both of them.

I edited my earlier post with a link to something that Jene wrote up in the IDP forum a couple of years ago, about how they cooked it up in Minnesota while Dungy was DC and Kiffin was LB coach. I assume it just got the "Tampa" name because that is where it became more well-known.

 

[cobalt_27]

This figures to be a 4-horse race between Ewbank, McCafferty, Switzer & Billick. an obvious choice for Switzer. We'll see.

Fixed.Seriously, I'm not sure what the debate would be, humor or no humor.

 

[Polar Dude]

FWIW, Kiffin's Wikipedia page says this: "Monte Kiffin is the mastermind behind the Tampa 2 scheme, which is a slight modification of Tony Dungy's Cover 2."

On the other hand, Dungy's page credits both Dungy and Kiffin. And the Tampa 2 page credits both of them.

That's not exactly what it says:

The term rose to popularity due to the installation and excellent execution of this defensive scheme by then-head coach Tony Dungy and defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin.

Tony Dungy has been quoted to say “My philosophy is really out of the 1975 Pittsburgh Steelers playbook,” said Dungy during media interviews while at Super Bowl XLI. “That is why I have to laugh when I hear 'Tampa 2'. Chuck Noll and Bud Carson — that is where it came from, I changed very little.” Lovie Smith mentions having played the system in junior high school during the 1970s, though Carson introduced the idea of moving the middle linebacker into coverage. Carson's system became especially effective with the Steelers' addition of aggressive and athletic middle linebacker Jack Lambert.

 

[fsufan]

61% for Switzer

funny thing is it should be higher

 

[Polar Dude]

How is Brian Billick, who won the SB with probably the worst QB of all the SB-winners, running second in this race?

 

[SSOG]

In regard to the bolded, maybe someone can educate me here. I seriously don't know the answer.

Yes, Dungy was the DC of the Vikings. But he played the game as a DB. Can we really give him credit for developing a stud DL? Did he put Randle in the right schemes? Sure. But technique work? Isn't that what the defensive line coach is responsible for? D-line coaches almost always played D-line in the league themselves. The DC can't do everything. He has to delegate at some point to let his coaches teach.

No?

I don't think that's necessarily the case at all. For instance, I'd say that Rick Dennison has been one of the best offensive line coaches over the past decade (arguably the best). He played LB in the NFL. Josh McDaniels was a defensive backs coach in 2003 and a QB coach in 2004. Bobby Turner, the most famous RB coach in the league, was a defensive back in his playing days.I think that if you know football, you know football. There are tons of examples of people being some of the most successful position coaches at a position that they never played.

 

[SSOG]

I'm just wondering how a moron like Switzer managed to win 3 National Championships and 12 Big Eight titles at Oklahoma.

Look at the rest of the teams in the Big 8. There's your answer.

Yeah, Tom Osbourne and the Huskers were a bunch of scrubs.

Tom Osbourne lost 2+ games every year for an entire decade from 1972 to 1981 (the timeframe where Switzer did most of his damage). Tom Osbourne's Huskers were a very good team, but they were hardly a dominant team. They went 2-9 against the Sooners over that 10 year span, with one of their two wins coming in a season where they lost a rematch in the bowls.

 

[GregR_2]

...

People can doubt it all they want, even GregR is not wanting to admit Dungy is a terrific coach but manages to write that he thinks Dungy will go 1st ballot HoF. 148 wins in 13 seasons, a Super Bowl ring, and plenty of HoF candidates under his watchful eye, there is no question he is going to the HoF and he's a good guy to boot. We need more Tony Dungys in the world.

You seem to have both of my views backwards there. I said: "I think [Dungy] gets into the [Hall of Fame] without any problem, if maybe not 1st ballot." Translation: Dungy is a Hall of Fame coach, but might or might not make it on the 1st ballot.

"I think Dungy rates higher in the Hall of Great Coaches than he does in the Hall of Fame." Translation: I think Dungy's career rates high enough for him to be HoF worthy... but if you rank him by coaching ability instead of career, I think he ranks even higher. So that means I think Dungy is a terrific coach. And I'll add I think that both in terms of X's and O's and in terms of being able to handle and motivate a team.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

Tony Dungy! I don't even give him credit for that win. He stepped into it like Switzer did.

Dungy still did more in the pros than Switzer did. As Jason mentioned, I think Switzer needs to win this poll but it's not like the guy was horrible. A lot of coaches could have screwed up that year he won the SB. If ever there was a situation where it was win a SB or it means fail, that was it.

 

[pollardsvision]

Surprised to see Ditka in 4th place here. Not that I disagree. Outside of the SB season, he won 3 playoff games in his career and finished it by taking a dump on an entire franchise.

 

[GregR_2]

Tony Dungy! I don't even give him credit for that win. He stepped into it like Switzer did.

Dungy still did more in the pros than Switzer did. As Jason mentioned, I think Switzer needs to win this poll but it's not like the guy was horrible. A lot of coaches could have screwed up that year he won the SB. If ever there was a situation where it was win a SB or it means fail, that was it.

Yes, Dungy did far more. There's just no track record on Switzer in the NFL is his problem. He took a team that was already built to be a dynasty, won a super bowl with them, and then they fell apart in his 4th year.It's hard to give Switzer as much credit for the SB win as you would normally give a coach, when you know the team had a great offense and defense capable of winning championships before Switzer got there... and he wasn't able to sustain them for more than a couple of years. Dungy on the other hand twice took over teams who were amongst the worst in the league at defense and turned them around so they were not only frequently top 10 defenses, but were sometimes top 2 or 3 defenses. You've obviously got to lay appropriate amounts of credit at Peyton's feet for the championship, but the Colts with the changes Dungy brought were a much more complete team than they were before he got there.

 

[bagger]

Not sure how Switzerland doesn't get every vote...

He was 45-26 as an NFL HC. Ewbank was barely above .500 and McCafferty wasn't a whole lot better.Are you implying his assistants did ALL the work? (Not that I would argue... just wondering.)

no. I'm implying that jimmy Johnson did all the work. That team already knew how to win.

^

 

[QuizGuy66]

How is Brian Billick, who won the SB with probably the worst QB of all the SB-winners, running second in this race?

Maybe it's because the rest of his career isn't all that distinguished. After winning the Super Bowl he posted a 60-52 record in the following season and just a 1-3 record in the playoffs. Not saying it gets him the honors (again, I voted Switzer) but I assume that's what is driving votes to him.I think Ditka's presence is pretty silly. Yes Buddy Ryan gets a ton of credit and rightly so for the Bears defense but he posted a 106-62 record with the Bears, 70-41 in the years following the Super Bowl up until the end of his Bears tenure. Hard to say that makes him the worst.-QG

 

[Yellow Line is Unoffcial]

Never really looked at Weeb Eubank's history before this thread. Now that I've done so...Wow. Guy is lucky to be in the Hall of Fame. It seems like he just had the good fortune that in the rare years his teams did well (and such years are quite rare), they happened to be years where the circumstances around him just happened to have made them historic games.I won't dispute that he probably should be in the HoF from the angle of "can you tell the story of the NFL without strong mention of this person." But if we were making a Hall based strictly on how good of a coach the person is rather than how his career played out, I'm not seeing anything particular from his record to make me think he even should be in the Hall of the Very Good, let alone the Hall of Fame. I was trying to think of a way to relate his career records with today and decided to go with how often he'd make the playoffs. I think a great coach should make the playoffs as often as not in today's NFL. You pretty much need to go 10-6 or a .625 winning percentage these days to feel pretty confident that you'll make the playoffs. And even then you still won't sometimes, though that's balanced out by occasionally making it as a 9-7 team. Using that .625 as a measure, Eubanks teams would only have made the playoffs 4 years out of his 20 seasons as a coach. To put that in perspective, if all games were decided with coin tosses, you'd expect any given team to go to the playoffs 37.5% of the time. Eubanks teams would have gone to the playoffs 20% of the time. So in his career he didn't even manage to hit average if results were completely random. He only managed in 25% of his seasons to finish more than 1 game above .500.I thought it was very off base criticizing RaiderNation for including Eubanks when RN clearly stated how he went about making a quick list of coaches to include and made it clear he didn't go through it name by name. But now that I have actually looked at Eubanks... speaking as I have to as someone who never saw his teams play and only being able to judge him on his record, I'd say he definitely belongs in this list. I'd probably take most of the coaches in that list if I was picking a coach for my team going forward. He had a fortunate career that the few times he won, they happened to be historic, but otherwise he seems like a mediocre coach at best.

Weeb Ewbank is the only man to win an AFL champoinship and an NFL championship. How many coached have won champoinships with two different teams?The answer to the question is Don McCulley.

 

[Yellow Line is Unoffcial]

Tony Dungy! I don't even give him credit for that win. He stepped into it like Switzer did.

Well if that's the case he should get credit for the Tampa win, Gruden just stepped in.

 

[Mohawk]

Ewbank should not be on your list.

He coached the 1958 and 1959 Baltimore Colts to two World Chmpionships and then the 1969 Jets to his lone Super Bowl win.

He was a pretty good coach!!

 

[Ghost Rider]

Tony Dungy! I don't even give him credit for that win. He stepped into it like Switzer did.

Well if that's the case he should get credit for the Tampa win, Gruden just stepped in.

No, because Switzer stepped into a team that had already won two Super Bowls, while Gruden took over a team that Dungy couldn't get over the championship hump.

 

[GregR_2]

Never really looked at Weeb Eubank's history before this thread. Now that I've done so...Wow. Guy is lucky to be in the Hall of Fame. It seems like he just had the good fortune that in the rare years his teams did well (and such years are quite rare), they happened to be years where the circumstances around him just happened to have made them historic games.I won't dispute that he probably should be in the HoF from the angle of "can you tell the story of the NFL without strong mention of this person." But if we were making a Hall based strictly on how good of a coach the person is rather than how his career played out, I'm not seeing anything particular from his record to make me think he even should be in the Hall of the Very Good, let alone the Hall of Fame. I was trying to think of a way to relate his career records with today and decided to go with how often he'd make the playoffs. I think a great coach should make the playoffs as often as not in today's NFL. You pretty much need to go 10-6 or a .625 winning percentage these days to feel pretty confident that you'll make the playoffs. And even then you still won't sometimes, though that's balanced out by occasionally making it as a 9-7 team. Using that .625 as a measure, Eubanks teams would only have made the playoffs 4 years out of his 20 seasons as a coach. To put that in perspective, if all games were decided with coin tosses, you'd expect any given team to go to the playoffs 37.5% of the time. Eubanks teams would have gone to the playoffs 20% of the time. So in his career he didn't even manage to hit average if results were completely random. He only managed in 25% of his seasons to finish more than 1 game above .500.I thought it was very off base criticizing RaiderNation for including Eubanks when RN clearly stated how he went about making a quick list of coaches to include and made it clear he didn't go through it name by name. But now that I have actually looked at Eubanks... speaking as I have to as someone who never saw his teams play and only being able to judge him on his record, I'd say he definitely belongs in this list. I'd probably take most of the coaches in that list if I was picking a coach for my team going forward. He had a fortunate career that the few times he won, they happened to be historic, but otherwise he seems like a mediocre coach at best.

Weeb Ewbank is the only man to win an AFL champoinship and an NFL championship. How many coached have won champoinships with two different teams?The answer to the question is Don McCulley.

If someone wanted to argue that putting together two different rosters that won championships is meaningful, I'd agree... and I've already taken that into account along with how mediocre his teams were the other 16 years he was a coach.But if I were trying to convince someone about Ewbank I wouldn't argue that his doing it on two different franchises is something meaningful. Few coaches have won championships with multiple teams because the good coaches normally stick in one place once they start winning championships. He had the opportunity to do it on a second franchise because he got fired for having mediocre teams after his championship. If I were arguing his merits I don't see how I'd include that as one of them.And by the way, my vote was for Switzer.

 

[Tau837]

Never really looked at Weeb Eubank's history before this thread. Now that I've done so...

Wow. Guy is lucky to be in the Hall of Fame. It seems like he just had the good fortune that in the rare years his teams did well (and such years are quite rare), they happened to be years where the circumstances around him just happened to have made them historic games.

I won't dispute that he probably should be in the HoF from the angle of "can you tell the story of the NFL without strong mention of this person."

But if we were making a Hall based strictly on how good of a coach the person is rather than how his career played out, I'm not seeing anything particular from his record to make me think he even should be in the Hall of the Very Good, let alone the Hall of Fame.

I was trying to think of a way to relate his career records with today and decided to go with how often he'd make the playoffs. I think a great coach should make the playoffs as often as not in today's NFL. You pretty much need to go 10-6 or a .625 winning percentage these days to feel pretty confident that you'll make the playoffs. And even then you still won't sometimes, though that's balanced out by occasionally making it as a 9-7 team. Using that .625 as a measure, Eubanks teams would only have made the playoffs 4 years out of his 20 seasons as a coach. To put that in perspective, if all games were decided with coin tosses, you'd expect any given team to go to the playoffs 37.5% of the time. Eubanks teams would have gone to the playoffs 20% of the time. So in his career he didn't even manage to hit average if results were completely random. He only managed in 25% of his seasons to finish more than 1 game above .500.

I thought it was very off base criticizing RaiderNation for including Eubanks when RN clearly stated how he went about making a quick list of coaches to include and made it clear he didn't go through it name by name. But now that I have actually looked at Eubanks... speaking as I have to as someone who never saw his teams play and only being able to judge him on his record, I'd say he definitely belongs in this list. I'd probably take most of the coaches in that list if I was picking a coach for my team going forward. He had a fortunate career that the few times he won, they happened to be historic, but otherwise he seems like a mediocre coach at best.

Weeb Ewbank is the only man to win an AFL champoinship and an NFL championship. How many coached have won champoinships with two different teams?The answer to the question is Don McCulley.

If someone wanted to argue that putting together two different rosters that won championships is meaningful, I'd agree... and I've already taken that into account along with how mediocre his teams were the other 16 years he was a coach.But if I were trying to convince someone about Ewbank I wouldn't argue that his doing it on two different franchises is something meaningful. Few coaches have won championships with multiple teams because the good coaches normally stick in one place once they start winning championships. He had the opportunity to do it on a second franchise because he got fired for having mediocre teams after his championship.

If I were arguing his merits I don't see how I'd include that as one of them.

And by the way, my vote was for Switzer.

I'm not sure about this. In recent years at least, and off the top of my head, these head coaches coached elsewhere after winning championships: Parcells, Shanahan, Holmgren, Gruden, and Jimmy Johnson. Not sure how this compares to other eras.

 

[RebelINS]

Agreed. I don't think there's such a thing as a first ballot coaching Hall of Famer. Probably Phil Jackson in hoops, but in football? As you astutely point out JWB, there's not much precedent.

Tom Landry got in the next ballot year after getting fired. I'd say there have been a handful of coaches that definitely deserve first ballot HOF but perhaps I'm in the minority there.

 

[Godsbrother]

Agreed. I don't think there's such a thing as a first ballot coaching Hall of Famer. Probably Phil Jackson in hoops, but in football? As you astutely point out JWB, there's not much precedent.

Tom Landry got in the next ballot year after getting fired. I'd say there have been a handful of coaches that definitely deserve first ballot HOF but perhaps I'm in the minority there.

Chuck Noll retired in 1991 and was enshrined in 1993. Not sure what the rules were back then but he certainly deserved a first ballot HOF as much as any coach.

 

[Tau837]

At some point after Levy was inducted the rule was changed so that coaches must be retired 5 years before becoming eligible, just like players.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I'm sure Don Shula was inducted as soon as he was eligible and I think at the time it was 3 years form the end of coaching.

 

[gump]

Tony Dungy! I don't even give him credit for that win. He stepped into it like Switzer did.

Let's start when he was the DC of the MN Vikings under Denny Green. You might want to look back and see the type of DLines he unleashed on the NFL. He turned John Randle into perhaps a HoF inductee. Next he takes over the poorest most dicombobulated horrible excuse for an NFL franchise in the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and turns them into a winner and also makes HoF candidates like Warren Sapp, Derrick Brooks, John Lynch, Rhonde Barber, that was one of the best defenses ever constructed and they did win a SB the season after he left.

In regard to the bolded, maybe someone can educate me here. I seriously don't know the answer.Yes, Dungy was the DC of the Vikings. But he played the game as a DB. Can we really give him credit for developing a stud DL? Did he put Randle in the right schemes? Sure. But technique work? Isn't that what the defensive line coach is responsible for? D-line coaches almost always played D-line in the league themselves. The DC can't do everything. He has to delegate at some point to let his coaches teach.

No?

They went form 33 in 1991 to 51 in 1992...that's an increase of over 50% once he arrived on the scene. Doleman and Randle were on both of those teams. In 1993 it was 45, combined that is close to 100 sacks in 2 years. Tampa Bay in 1995 had 25 sacks, then Dungy gets there and they post 35 in 1996, a 40% increase. 1997 they went up to 44, but that was all Monte Kiffin right?

Not questioning Dungy's place in history...but I think it's clear Monte was the DL expert and Tony was the DB expert. They've both said the 'Tampa 2' hybrid they created was a half/half effort between the two. Dungy brought what he learned from Bud Carson at Pitt with the secondary zone and MLB 'pipe', and Kiffin brought what he learned from the over/under DL schemes he created with Floyd Peters at Minn.But you don't hear much about Dungy's successful secondaries. At one point at the Bucs, Ronde Barber, Brian Kelly, and Donnie Abraham all led the NFL in INT on separate occassions. They were over-shadowed though by Sapp, Brooks, Nickerson, Lynch, etc.

 

[Doug Drinen]

There was no national championship game, so largely what a team had to do was just beat the teams on their schedule. Oklahoma was located near a recruiting hotbed and played against lousy conference competition. Switzer was a fantastic recruiter (which is probably more important than coaching itself when it comes to college success), and he perfected a revolutionary offense that caught the country off guard (think: Urban Meyer and the spread). Basically, just imagine taking the University of Florida and putting it in the Big East. That was Oklahoma in the '70s.

Of all the atrocities that SEC fans commit on a regular basis --- and there are so many --- the worst is that they force me to defend OU. The fact is that, during Switzer's years at OU, the Big 8 had a winning record against every conference, including the SEC.

 

[Proud Communist]

There was no national championship game, so largely what a team had to do was just beat the teams on their schedule. Oklahoma was located near a recruiting hotbed and played against lousy conference competition. Switzer was a fantastic recruiter (which is probably more important than coaching itself when it comes to college success), and he perfected a revolutionary offense that caught the country off guard (think: Urban Meyer and the spread). Basically, just imagine taking the University of Florida and putting it in the Big East. That was Oklahoma in the '70s.

Of all the atrocities that SEC fans commit on a regular basis --- and there are so many --- the worst is that they force me to defend OU. The fact is that, during Switzer's years at OU, the Big 8 had a winning record against every conference, including the SEC.

The fact is that college coaching <> pro coaching. Switzer got the job in Dallas because he promised to keep both coordinators, which had responsibility for creating the game plans and calling the plays. Switzer had really no role.

 

[Doug Drinen]

There was no national championship game, so largely what a team had to do was just beat the teams on their schedule. Oklahoma was located near a recruiting hotbed and played against lousy conference competition. Switzer was a fantastic recruiter (which is probably more important than coaching itself when it comes to college success), and he perfected a revolutionary offense that caught the country off guard (think: Urban Meyer and the spread). Basically, just imagine taking the University of Florida and putting it in the Big East. That was Oklahoma in the '70s.

Of all the atrocities that SEC fans commit on a regular basis --- and there are so many --- the worst is that they force me to defend OU. The fact is that, during Switzer's years at OU, the Big 8 had a winning record against every conference, including the SEC.

The fact is that college coaching <> pro coaching. Switzer got the job in Dallas because he promised to keep both coordinators, which had responsibility for creating the game plans and calling the plays. Switzer had really no role.

Sorry for not clarifying. My post had nothing to do with the original topic.

 

[KentGraham10]

I never got the argument that Gruden is an overrated coach because he inherited a Super Bowl caliber team. Take a look at the team he was playing against that day. Are you saying he had nothing to do with getting that team to the Super Bowl?

 

[Ghost Rider]

I never got the argument that Gruden is an overrated coach because he inherited a Super Bowl caliber team. Take a look at the team he was playing against that day. Are you saying he had nothing to do with getting that team to the Super Bowl?

Agreed. I think many have downgraded him because the Bucs didn't do well under his tutelage after winning the Super Bowl, but he built that Raiders team into a contender and got the Bucs over the hump.

 

[cr8f]

Barry Switzer - Cowboys [ 179 ] [61.94%]

 

[texasbirdfan]

Not sure why Weeb shouldn't be in the conversation He was a pretty average coach by any measure.But I voted Switzer -- even though he's FAR from a bad coach. Dude won big in pros and college, can't front on that toooooooooooo much.

Yep he took the same gift team that the (should be investigated as shady) wealth of picks from Minny Hershel Walker brought along with the bad 'Boy teams of the late 80's top picks and poof - champions. I look at Jimmy as the luckiest coach in NFL history and he went on to glory coaching down the Dolphins to nowhere. I actually can make an argument for Barry being a very good coach if one says Jimmy J was one....

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

Not sure why Weeb shouldn't be in the conversation He was a pretty average coach by any measure.

But I voted Switzer -- even though he's FAR from a bad coach. Dude won big in pros and college, can't front on that toooooooooooo much.

Yep he took the same gift team that the (should be investigated as shady) wealth of picks from Minny Hershel Walker brought along with the bad 'Boy teams of the late 80's top picks and poof - champions. I look at Jimmy as the luckiest coach in NFL history and he went on to glory coaching down the Dolphins to nowhere. I actually can make an argument for Barry being a very good coach if one says Jimmy J was one....

I'd like to hear that argument. Johnson literally built the Cowboys into back-to-back world champions. And while he didn't dominate with the Dolphins, they never had a losing season and made the playoffs three out of four years. Switzer literally walked into a team on top and won a Super Bowl before they collapsed. Then he never coached again. Jimmy Johnson was a very good coach. Barry Switzer won a Super Bowl with a Super Bowl winner. We can give him credit for not screwing it up the first couple of years, but that's about it. I don't see how Switzer could be called a "very good coach."

Only talking about the pros, of course. Not knocking Switzer's college career at all. That record speaks for itself.

 

[Manster]

switzer gets my vote. i couldnt stand him as the Cowboys HC.when i think about Jerah running Jimmy outta town and then having the balls to say he could win with any HC, and then bringing in a clown like Switzer...........still pisses me off!!

Apparently he could...at least for a year -QG

If you look up the phrase "inheriting a team" in the sports encyclopedia, you'd see a giant picture of Barry Switzer on the Cowboys sideline, with that stupid squinty ####-eating grin!

 

[JohnnyU]

Anyone that voted for Weeb Ewbank is on drugs.