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WR James Washington, NO Saints (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter squistion
- Start date
Ever Present Lurker
Footballguy
If Juju can't go, is Washington the next in line?
Truebluey
Footballguy
djmich
Footballguy
Amazing that with the Antonio Brown saga making it more and more likely he isn't on the Steelers next year that the James Washington thread hasn't received one bump.
Looks like the reason he hasn't been more hyped in the past is because of AB & Juju blocking him. Steelers are a WR factory and while I'm sure they bring someone else in through FA or draft, it looks like Washington would have a huge opportunity.
Looks like the reason he hasn't been more hyped in the past is because of AB & Juju blocking him. Steelers are a WR factory and while I'm sure they bring someone else in through FA or draft, it looks like Washington would have a huge opportunity.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Washington was considered by many to be the wr1 in this class. Stock soured on him due to his landing spot and he was thought of as a very long term investment.
It's an almost certainty that AB is gone. Washington gets a HUGE bump. A massive number of targets that have to go somewhere
2019 is going to be a big year for Washington. Glad I own him everywhere.
I was actually considering shopping him as I need some immediate help at wr for 2019. Hes off my trade block now and I'm super excited about his potential. I'm guessing once AB is traded I'll get a number of offers for him in all of ly leagues.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
yeah I'm curious how that works out with an entire off season. You're right though.
I'm actually more excited for if/when Rudolph takes over. those 2 have excellent chemistry.
Yeah, it's not there. Eli Rogers, even Hunter, stepped right in to have chemistry. Maybe he's all in-sync with Rudolph or Dobbs and that bothers Ben somehow? I don't know
Washington is more possession type, slot WR guy. The Steelers haven't had many (any?) of those during Big Ben's time. Their WRs are usually big and fast and can always maybe hit a homerun. Maybe it's just a bad match?
Interseptopus
Footballguy
funny guy. no. the fact didnt change from last august until January.
Thanks for your contribution to the discussion
Me pointing out that you are contributing bull#### is very valuable. It reminds others to take everything you spout with a grain of salt.
If you would like to rebuff what I said, please tell us some of the "many" sources who ranked him as the best WR in this class.
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Interseptopus
Footballguy
not worth it when you come at me with such negativity. keep being excellent, sir.
blocked
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
If you disagree with something, say so. And the other person can say what they think and why. But please dial down the accusations like this. Thanks.tangfoot said:
He's allowed to completely dismiss the fact that I pointed out his Fake News declaration of "300 hamburgers, 1000 hamburgers, over 1000 hamburgers" but I'm over the line for pointing it out for what it is?
I quoted his previous declarations and the farce that they are. That makes me both the one who's being negative and subject to a talking to from the teacher?
jtd13
Footballguy
Man it's quiet on this guy after the Brown trade. You would think the consensus top WR from last year's draft (sorry @tangfoot
) would be getting more love here after a whole bunch of targets became available.
I think the Steelers are likely to pass a good deal less in 2019 than in 2018, but if Washington does indeed enter 2019 as a starter he should be very relevant.
) would be getting more love here after a whole bunch of targets became available.I think the Steelers are likely to pass a good deal less in 2019 than in 2018, but if Washington does indeed enter 2019 as a starter he should be very relevant.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
careful. dont want him to get triggered.Man it's quiet on this guy after the Brown trade. You would think the consensus top WR from last year's draft (sorry @tangfoot
I think the Steelers are likely to pass a good deal less in 2019 than in 2018, but if Washington does indeed enter 2019 as a starter he should be very relevant.
Faust
MVP
Zyphros
Footballguy
Super quiet in here. Personally I say sell now since I see him as a bust, Moncrief signing puts Washington at 4th in targets at best (or 3rd if you're optimistic about Washington and pessimistic about Moncrief), plus the heavy interest in likely a day 2 WR, writing is on the wall.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I wouldnt blame anyone for selling. I sold Sutton for similar reasons. I'm holding Washington for now. I'm not at all worried about Moncrief. Moncrief just keeps JuJu in the slot. a lot of targets up for grabs. I cant see JuJu and Moncrief accounting for all of them.
Steelers WR's have traditionally broken out in year 2. Burress, Holmes, Wallace, and JuJu all broke out in year 2. Washington may or may not be next, but Moncrief is of zero concern to me, a high drafted rookie might be, but Moncrief is just a body, who could easily end up behind Ryan Switzer in targets.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I'm constantly amazed by the lack of patience people have on this board with young WRs. So the rookie WR they draft this year is surely a better option than the rookie WR they drafted last year?
Zyphros
Footballguy
I wasn't a fan of his last year. But I saw the thread and saw so little buzz about him so I came in to see what the deal was.
I've said it before that there are 6 or more guys I'd take in this class ahead of ANY WR from last years class. I just see some signs that they might not believe he's the answer at WR2 for the Steelers. He struggled a lot last year, they're being mocked with WR usually in the 2nd or 3rd (roughly the same spot as Washington), and the signing of Moncrief who a lot of people still believe in. The writing is on the wall for competition at the very least, and I don't think he has the talent to ascend.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
But you're suggesting "sell now" and it would stand to reason that anyone who drafted him last year did like him as a prospect.
The rest of your analysis seems pretty speculative and forced. I mean Moncrief could reasonably be viewed as a depth signing or a flier type. It surely doesn't have to be any kind of tell as to what the Steelers think about Washington. Mock drafts are fun to look at but fairly meaningless (it seems a good lazy approach is to say "Brown is gone lets give Pitts a WR"). It's not like Pittsburgh's front office is putting out these mocks.
And I wouldn't argue with your view that this year's WR class is well above last year's WR class but it's not like we're looking at Washington v. "the field" - we'd be looking at whoever Pittsburgh ends up taking, if they even do. I mean this is the same team that drafted Washington fairly early just last season after all.
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Zyphros
Footballguy
I'm a Steelers fan and follow them closely, it seems very likely they take a WR early enough to add more speculation to Washington's outlook. If you want to be optimistic about Washington be my guest, and like you said, if you drafted him you probably are. I'm just saying how I see it panning out. They have Switzer but that's literally it after Washington so the cabinet is pretty bare. Sure you could see the Moncrief signing as depth behind Washington, but like I said, it's more competition from a competent WR who has had his own hype train. It's not just some depth add, Moncrief is a legit NFL WR (besides injury).
Zyphros
Footballguy
I've been on this WR group for a while now and there were some disappointments with guys that returned to school, but I still believe it's an amazing class. It does lack that true #1 that has no warts to their game, but I'm very high on this class of WR's.
Burress is only one of those WR's you listed that was not productive as a rookie, especially on a per target basis. All those other WR's displayed big time game as rookies. Burress was laughably bad. So maybe he turns the corner like Plax, or he could go the way of Limas Sweed, Sammie Coates or Wheaton. The Steelers are incredible at picking WR's but that's making people forget they bust on some as well.
Personally I think Moncrief and Washington is going to be a good camp battle and I my money is on Moncrief.
I get that you are high on this class but I can't get behind your thinking where you admit you don't see a true #1 but would still take the potential of 6 unknown and likely #2 WR's over what you've actually seen on the NFL field over guys like Ridley and DJ Moore. I would not even take 6 WR's in this class over Keke Coutee myself.
Zyphros
Footballguy
That's hindsight though. At this time last year the WR group was severely lacking. There were a few that touted DJ Moore or Ridley but I didn't see it. I actually like Gallup the best out of last year. And comparing the two classes before their NFL seasons, there are 6 WR's minimum I'd take over any of them from 2018. And since Washington was a little lower on my rankings, he'd be way behind this rookie group.
To clarify about my lack of true #1. I mean the guy with no warts to their game, there are WR's that can easily be a #1 WR for an NFL team, but there are question marks if they'll be truly elite or just above replacement. Just to use Harry as an example, his separation skills are lacking, but I still think he can be a #1 for a team. Same with 5 other guys that I feel the same way about.
I'll gladly trade you Coutee for the 1.01-1.08 this year.
So you are talking about how you ranked last years WR's as prospects, not players? In other words how you ranked this them this time last year? If so that makes a lot more sense but I can for sure say I'd have have had Moore and Ridley as my top two if they were in this class, and that's not a hindsight. After those the top 10 would have been a pretty even mix of this and last year's class.
Regarding how I view Ridley with a year of hindsight. I was OTC at pick 12 last year and went to take Ridley when someone offered me a 2019#1 and a late third for the pick so I took it. The pick could not have worked out better, ended up being 1.1, and still I'm not sure if I did not lose that trade.
Regarding your Coutee trade comment. I for sure did not say I'd take him over any player in this draft so we'd be out on the 1.1. I did say I'd take him before I'd take my 6th WR and but then I'm not really picking my 6th WR at pick 8 either. I'd not deal something like pick 12 for Coutee right now, would rather see what is available, but it's possible when I'm OTC looking at my options I'd rather have him so it could be I put his value right around a late one when all is said and done. Big fan if he can just stay healthy but unlike Ridley and Moore that's all hindsight, I was not high on him at all coming into the league.
Sorry to veer off Washington
JohnnyU
Footballguy
If someone will give anyone the 1.01 - 1.08 for Coutee they should jump on it. Hell, I'd probably break my leg getting to the accept button.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
I acquired Washington for cheap in part of a bigger deal. Not really sure if I want to keep him, but trade interest seems lukewarm at best. He is in that sort of no-man's land of probably being worth a late 1st/early 2nd. I say no-man's land because very few if any are probably willing to pay that, and if you own him then you are probably not wanting to sell him for that either. I'll probably hold and see what happens. But I absolutely expect the Steelers to draft another top WR or two. Why wouldn't they? It may be lazy analysis to say Brown is gone so they need more WRs, but Brown is gone so they need more WRs.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I'll be interested in seeing if Washington makes any progress from last year. He and Ben were not on the same page.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I have a few strongly interested in Washington but only low ball offers. IMO the "didnt connect with Big Ben" concerns are overblown, especially when you read reports that Ben is very standoffish and doesn't connect with anyone.
Washington is a young rookie with a ton of upside, in an offense oozing with opportunity. This time next year, IMO, he is worth a lot more than what some have suggested here. Moncreif is JAG... not concerned about him in the least. In fact, I think that speaks toward their confidence in JuJu and Washington to be their play makers and Moncrief to just be the guy on the outside. If the invest a high draft pick in a WR, sure then we can be concerned, but they've shown no indication they will do so. I'd be more worried about it of they didnt sign Moncrief.
Washington is a young rookie with a ton of upside, in an offense oozing with opportunity. This time next year, IMO, he is worth a lot more than what some have suggested here. Moncreif is JAG... not concerned about him in the least. In fact, I think that speaks toward their confidence in JuJu and Washington to be their play makers and Moncrief to just be the guy on the outside. If the invest a high draft pick in a WR, sure then we can be concerned, but they've shown no indication they will do so. I'd be more worried about it of they didnt sign Moncrief.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
By connecting / on same page, I meant on the field connecting. I couldn't care less about the personal side of Ben and his relationship with receivers unless it affects play on the field.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I wasn't that high on Washington last year either, most other rankings I saw had him much higher than I did.
Here is the last version I did tier two WR only:
Calvin Ridley 25 Falcons
DJ Moore 24 Panthers
Anthony Miller 51 Bears
Christian Kirk 47 Cardinals
Michael Gallup 81 Cowboys
Courtland Sutton 40 Broncos
Dante Pettis 44 49ers
Trequan Smith 91 Saints
James Washington 60 Steelers
When I made this ranking it was with the idea that Brown would still be a Steeler and their most targeted player.
AB is gone. I did not see that happening at the time I ranked Washington. That changes things a lot in my view. In hindsight other people ranking Washington higher than I did makes sense, if they believed Brown would no longer be with the team.
There are 4 WR from this draft class that I consider tier one, and some that will be tier two but who I might rank ahead of Washington still.
Washington has a great opportunity to outperform all of them this season though.
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
Finally a bit of good news: https://twitter.com/jfowlerespn/status/1131595458734960640?s=21
BTW JuJu was talking about how skinny Johnson was the other day, saying he had to take him to Chipotle. He met the BMI benchmark of 26 but barely at 26.3. I still am putting my chips on the Washington train. His production year one is a little nerve racking but I think he represents the most upside outside of JuJu.
BTW JuJu was talking about how skinny Johnson was the other day, saying he had to take him to Chipotle. He met the BMI benchmark of 26 but barely at 26.3. I still am putting my chips on the Washington train. His production year one is a little nerve racking but I think he represents the most upside outside of JuJu.
Raptors409
Footballguy
Boy, has the sport changed. We used to have to wait 3 years for a WR to breakout in the NFL before we called him a bust.
Zyphros
Footballguy
In fairness I didn't say "he is a bust", I just don't see him being an integral part of that offense or for fantasy purposes startable in most cases, so I see his career being a bust in that way of thinking.
Raptors409
Footballguy
You're all good. I'm just having fun. There's no guarantees with this guy, but I saw him go up and make contested catches. Big Ben loves heaving the ball downfield, if he can get 1-2 deep targets a game some value will follow.
I'm a big fan of the Rookie as well. But if teams put their best cornerback on Juju. That leaves Washington or Moncrief wide open. Don't get me wrong, there's always a chance that Moncrief is the play here. He's always looked "good enough" whenever I've watched him play. Although you have to wonder why he keeps bouncing from team to team. It's usually mediocre talents like King Crab (Michael Crabtree) that do stuff like that.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Antonio Brown is vacating 168 targets in this offense.
I cant see JuJu getting a massive bump. The top target getter in 2018 was 170 (JuJu 166)
Washington had 38 last year. If he saw a bump up to 115-120 how does he not finish in the top 24 or 30 WRs?
"But Moncreif!" you say. well, even if Moncrief gets 100 targets (unlikely imo), and Washington inherits 68. that still puts him at 116.
He was a rookie last year. Behind two WRs who finished TOP 4 in targets in the NFL in 2018. We dont give him any slack for "not showing enough when he had the opportunity?"
What am I missing here? I'm seeing a potential wr2-3. FBG dynasty value chart has him at WR43. Sandwiched between who I see as a very promising rookie in JJAW, but wr4 on his own team in 2019 and Curtis Samuel who is the 4th target at best in his offense.
I'm not worried about Johnson, although it's too early to speak with conviction on him either way right now. He is who he is, a rookie. Moncrief has more target potential but hes been all.over the map on volume in his career. Even if we say his career average / 16 games played of 80 targets... there are 88 left.
Save me the clever comments of "he sucks" or "hes a bust" and let's look at the big picture here: 168 targets... how are they split up in 2019, because someone stands to be VERY undervalued right now
I cant see JuJu getting a massive bump. The top target getter in 2018 was 170 (JuJu 166)
Washington had 38 last year. If he saw a bump up to 115-120 how does he not finish in the top 24 or 30 WRs?
"But Moncreif!" you say. well, even if Moncrief gets 100 targets (unlikely imo), and Washington inherits 68. that still puts him at 116.
He was a rookie last year. Behind two WRs who finished TOP 4 in targets in the NFL in 2018. We dont give him any slack for "not showing enough when he had the opportunity?"
What am I missing here? I'm seeing a potential wr2-3. FBG dynasty value chart has him at WR43. Sandwiched between who I see as a very promising rookie in JJAW, but wr4 on his own team in 2019 and Curtis Samuel who is the 4th target at best in his offense.
I'm not worried about Johnson, although it's too early to speak with conviction on him either way right now. He is who he is, a rookie. Moncrief has more target potential but hes been all.over the map on volume in his career. Even if we say his career average / 16 games played of 80 targets... there are 88 left.
Save me the clever comments of "he sucks" or "hes a bust" and let's look at the big picture here: 168 targets... how are they split up in 2019, because someone stands to be VERY undervalued right now
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jtd13
Footballguy
I'd be very surprised if Pittsburgh throws as much next year so they did last year. I think Washington still has a great opportunity to take the #2 role and have a nice number of targets, but he's got to beat out Moncrief and the guy they just took in the early 3rd, not to mention pass guys on the target totem pole they he feel behind last year, like Ryan Switzer. I don't think it's a given, and I don't think there will be available targets to make 2 of them good for fantasy.
Raptors409
Footballguy
I agree with this. In redraft, I don't know if he's draftable. In dynasty, it's practical to roster him, Moncrief, and the rookie.
First, you’re missing that 36 + 68 = 104
Second, you’re discounting the fact that AB was quite literally the best WR in the entire league over the past several seasons. You can’t just assume those targets get recreated and evenly distributed.
Third, you’re missing the fact Ben’s 2018 passing attempts were between 70-90 higher than his previous two 16-game seasons, which are also rare for him in the first place.
