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WR Josh Gordon, KC (6 Viewers)

slackjawedyokel said:
What are some known precedents from previous similar cases?
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I don't think there are many.

Sherman got out of a 4 game suspension by arguing the testing procedure wasn't followed correctly. That was for PEDs, though, not under the substance abuse policy.

As has been noted many times, we aren't privy to the elapsed time in all cases, since news of failed tests/appeals aren't always leaded. The NFL doesn't make official announcement until they have made a decision.

Reports have said that the NFL has never negated a positive test based on the "2nd hand smoke" argument, but the fact is if a player was successful in his appeal (and the news of the failed test/appeal hadn't leaked), we'd never know. So, in theory, players could have successfully appealed a suspension many times, and we just don't know.

 
The thing about getting all excited about a newly minted quarter back is that in four games or so DC's will start making a guy do what he doesn't like to do. I think the big test of a QB's career prospects is how well he does the things he doesn't do best.

To switch sports, it's like, what's your other punch? Or, if you can't hit the plate with anything other than your fastball....

This is very much a Johnny Football question, too.

 
Old Smiley said:
The thing about getting all excited about a newly minted quarter back is that in four games or so DC's will start making a guy do what he doesn't like to do. I think the big test of a QB's career prospects is how well he does the things he doesn't do best.

To switch sports, it's like, what's your other punch? Or, if you can't hit the plate with anything other than your fastball....

This is very much a Johnny Football question, too.
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I'll interpret this as you have no concerns about Gordon being suspended and that he'll play all 16 games, so you would rather focus on the rookie QB and his relationship with his newly reinstated WR, Josh Gordon.

 
Soulfly3 said:
Bracie Smathers said:
Anyone an ESPN Insider who can provide cliff notes on this tweet?

==================================================

ESPN‏@NFLRumorCentral9 hrs

Could Ohio courts save Josh Gordon's entire '14 season, if he loses appeal?: http://es.pn/1oAi3eD #Browns #FantasyFootball
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More than likely ESPN ripping off this lawyer, without proper credit.

http://fieldandcourt.com/teams/afc-north/item/246-what-to-expect-if-josh-gordon-loses-his-appeal.html
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Yes it is a rehash of that article. They gave him credit.

 
Greg Russell said:
Soulfly3 said:
Bracie Smathers said:
Anyone an ESPN Insider who can provide cliff notes on this tweet?

==================================================

ESPN‏@NFLRumorCentral9 hrs

Could Ohio courts save Josh Gordon's entire '14 season, if he loses appeal?: http://es.pn/1oAi3eD #Browns #FantasyFootball
Click to expand...
More than likely ESPN ripping off this lawyer, without proper credit.

http://fieldandcourt.com/teams/afc-north/item/246-what-to-expect-if-josh-gordon-loses-his-appeal.html
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Yes it is a rehash of that article. They gave him credit.
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Shocking. Good for ESPN

 
Soulfly3 said:
Greg Russell said:
Soulfly3 said:
Bracie Smathers said:
Anyone an ESPN Insider who can provide cliff notes on this tweet?

==================================================

ESPN‏@NFLRumorCentral9 hrs

Could Ohio courts save Josh Gordon's entire '14 season, if he loses appeal?: http://es.pn/1oAi3eD #Browns #FantasyFootball
Click to expand...
More than likely ESPN ripping off this lawyer, without proper credit.

http://fieldandcourt.com/teams/afc-north/item/246-what-to-expect-if-josh-gordon-loses-his-appeal.html
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Yes it is a rehash of that article. They gave him credit.
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Shocking. Good for ESPN
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ESPN has to be careful about legal matters. I'm sure anything they put out is held to pretty high standards and they wouldn't allow a non-credited source type of rip-off.

I was the one who originally posted that source here but for ESPN to pick that up and run with an Insider story on it gives it more creedence IMHO.

Since the NFL seems to be bending over backwards avoiding a ruling on this case it seems their has to be some reason.

Grossi gives his take:

================

ESPN Cleveland‏@ESPNCleveland9 hrs

Grossi: I don't think Gordon will be suspended 16 games. I think the NFL is working to explain why they will bend the rules for him. #Browns

================

What he thinks they will eventually rule:

----------------------------------------------------

ESPN Cleveland‏@ESPNCleveland9 hrs

Grossi: I think the NFL will announce it as an indefinite suspension but allow Gordon to apply for reinstatement after 8 or so games #Browns

 
slackjawedyokel said:
What are some known precedents from previous similar cases?
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Was reported a few hours ago on Cleveland Browns Daily that no NFL player has ever been indefinitely suspended when a split sample had an 'A-sample' above the threshold ('barely above') where the 'B-sample' was below the threshold.

Their has never been a case like this before.

It is unprecedented for that reason.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
ESPN Cleveland‏@ESPNCleveland9 hrs

Grossi: I think the NFL will announce it as an indefinite suspension but allow Gordon to apply for reinstatement after 8 or so games #Browns
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Could easily see that being the case.

We can only judge so much when all we have to go by out of 10 hours of appeals presentation is a couple of sentences here and there from sources or press releases. But going by what little we do have, I would think his odds of winning an appeal strictly on merit are low.

But I think the NFL has been trying to overcome the level of antagonism from the players that was so on display at the time of the last CBA. A lot of that was focused on punishments. I could see them using a high profile case to try to affect some improvements in the relationship with the players while not caving completely. I think they've done that before now to some extent. That would be exactly the kind of compromise I think would fit.

 
MoveToSkypager said:
slackjawedyokel said:
What are some known precedents from previous similar cases?
Click to expand...
Tanard Jackson, Lavon Brazil, Fred Davis, Daryl Washington, Just Blackmon's 3rd strikes are at least 1 year/indefinite.

Will Hill's 3rd strike was 6 games.

Weslye Saunders's 3rd strike was 8 games.
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Saunders, Asa Jackson and DeQuin Evans received 8 games. All were for their 2nd violation of PED's, not substances of abuse.

Since Evans was suspended last August, no one has been suspended 8 games and six players have been given indefinite/season suspensions: Blackmon, Browner, Fred Davis, Daryl Washington, Brazill, and Tanard Jackson.

Will Hill is unique in receiving 6 games for substances of abuse and is the one to be most optimistic about as a Gordon owner. It was his 3rd suspension but the first one (4 games) was for PED's and the second (4 games) was for substances of abuse. He also used second hand smoke as an excuse.

However, if Hill was still in stage 2 then 6 games would have been the appropriate suspension:

– 2nd violation: 4-game suspension (or a 6-game suspension if a player was suspended for the first violation in Stage Two).
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cstu said:
MoveToSkypager said:
slackjawedyokel said:
What are some known precedents from previous similar cases?
Click to expand...
Tanard Jackson, Lavon Brazil, Fred Davis, Daryl Washington, Just Blackmon's 3rd strikes are at least 1 year/indefinite.

Will Hill's 3rd strike was 6 games.

Weslye Saunders's 3rd strike was 8 games.
Click to expand...
Saunders, Asa Jackson and DeQuin Evans received 8 games. All were for their 2nd violation of PED's, not substances of abuse.

Since Evans was suspended last August, no one has been suspended 8 games and six players have been given indefinite/season suspensions: Blackmon, Browner, Fred Davis, Daryl Washington, Brazill, and Tanard Jackson.

Will Hill is unique in receiving 6 games for substances of abuse and is the one to be most optimistic about as a Gordon owner. It was his 3rd suspension but the first one (4 games) was for PED's and the second (4 games) was for substances of abuse. He also used second hand smoke as an excuse.
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Reading all the comparisons between Gordon's potential penalty and Ray Rice's in media articles and in the forum here, I got the impression prior violations had no bearing on penalties whatsoever.

Who would have thunk it. Someone should probably notify those people they play a role in the punishment.

 
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Anyone w perhaps a little more in depth knowledge of this?

A former Patriots player (Ted Johnson) was on the radio and mentioned that even if Gordon was to get 16 games, the NFL would/could not bar him from training camp (or the entirety of it) as there is something in players' contracts that prevents that.

Also, John MCClain and Sage both said they believe he will get 16 games, but have a feeling the league is taking a lot of interest in the Browns (in a positive way) and wouldnt be surprised to see a "shocking deal" take place to keep him playing.

 
Soulfly3 said:
Anyone w perhaps a little more in depth knowledge of this?

A former Patriots player (Ted Johnson) was on the radio and mentioned that even if Gordon was to get 16 games, the NFL would/could not bar him from training camp (or the entirety of it) as there is something in players' contracts that prevents that.

Also, John MCClain and Sage both said they believe he will get 16 games, but have a feeling the league is taking a lot of interest in the Browns (in a positive way) and wouldnt be surprised to see a "shocking deal" take place to keep him playing.
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I believe players are allowed to be with the team and his suspension would start following the end of preseason just prior to week 1

 
Riversco said:
The problem is: can Gordon stay out of trouble during his suspension? I'm guessing no. Might never play again.
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I never thought Ricky Williams would come back and he had more problems that Gordon. Still think the odds are...good...that he misses much, if not all, of 2015 since one misstep during the suspension will delay his reinstatement several months.

 
Penguin said:
Soulfly3 said:
Anyone w perhaps a little more in depth knowledge of this?

A former Patriots player (Ted Johnson) was on the radio and mentioned that even if Gordon was to get 16 games, the NFL would/could not bar him from training camp (or the entirety of it) as there is something in players' contracts that prevents that.

Also, John MCClain and Sage both said they believe he will get 16 games, but have a feeling the league is taking a lot of interest in the Browns (in a positive way) and wouldnt be surprised to see a "shocking deal" take place to keep him playing.
Click to expand...
I believe players are allowed to be with the team and his suspension would start following the end of preseason just prior to week 1
Click to expand...
I know players are allowing to practice during training camp if they are given a certain number of game suspension but I don't believe they can if it's an indefinite suspension.

 
Soulfly3 said:
Anyone w perhaps a little more in depth knowledge of this?

A former Patriots player (Ted Johnson) was on the radio and mentioned that even if Gordon was to get 16 games, the NFL would/could not bar him from training camp (or the entirety of it) as there is something in players' contracts that prevents that.

Also, John MCClain and Sage both said they believe he will get 16 games, but have a feeling the league is taking a lot of interest in the Browns (in a positive way) and wouldnt be surprised to see a "shocking deal" take place to keep him playing.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't trust anything Ted Johnson says. His brain has been malfunctioning for about a decade now.

 
LittlePhatty said:
amnesiac said:
well, had to turn in keepers last night and decided against keeping him.
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amnesiac said:
ItsOnlytheRiver said:
amnesiac said:
well, had to turn in keepers last night and decided against keeping him.
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Who did you keep over him?
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Justin Hunter took his slot.
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I kept Jordan Cameron over Gordon.

Just in case people are interested in hearing what others are doing.
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Kept Allen, Lacy.

 
slackjawedyokel said:
Underachievers said:
T with T said:
According to sources close to NFLPA Josh Gordon has won his appeal and will not be suspended... News to break soon.
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Just read the same exact thing. While reading your post....
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The original post of this farce was bad taste... your response made me chuckle, though.
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Haha. There aren't enough crows on earth to be served were it true...

 
you'd think in 3 hours since the post the "news" would have broken "soon"

dang it .. and I just took Gordon in the 3rd of my big money league draft on that tip

( not )

 
I have had a very good take on this matter since its first began and have drafted my teams accordingly. But like a few have mentioned i seen (ive just checked this post for first time 10 minutes ago and don't post here often anymore as I'm very busy these days).

This is my take on it and id be very surprised if i am not pretty much right on most of not all of it. It may not be worded perfectly so don't kill me but you'll get my point. I am far from any English major lol. Im making this post because ive felt this way all along now and every vibe i get is telling me this is whats going on and how it may play out and want to share it with you guys and gals in this very long and interesting thread about a huge issue for us FF players and NFL fans alike esp..Browns fans.

Gordon IMO will catch a break and for many different reasons. #1 being the timing of it all and that his last tests in question (for cannabis, which is a joke in and of itself) its legal and being prescribed by Doctors for everything from glaucoma to back pain not to mention many other things as well and its also LEGAL and or decriminalized in a few states and about to be in many more ) were low and barely above the threshold and another test that was taken that was actually under it. I know for a fact that second hand smoke can cause a positive test if the levels they test for are as low as the NFL threshold is. A relative of mine many years ago now beat a case where he lost his job for a positive test for pot and hired a lawyer and it was determined that it was indeed form second hand smoke when eh was riding around with his buddies and they were smoking with windows done and on many occasion, so he showed a positive result for cannabis in his system but just barely enough to show that it was in his system but not bear where a regular smoker or pothead levels would be. Well anyways he beat the case and got his job back and this was at least 15-20 years ago now. So it can and has happened before.

Why the NFLPA didn't negotiate cannabis use out of the contract was a bad call on there part. NBA players from what ive been told did in fact have weed testing taken out of the cba (if anyone knows if this is 100% a fact chime in but ill Google it in a minute myself but i did hear that did happen because 70% of the NBA players or some very high number like that use the herb and wanted not to be tested and punished for using it)

Now i will never say Gordon is a saint or very smart because he must be pretty dam foolish or stupid to be close to blowing what could be at least a $50-100 million dollar career over pot and whatever other things he tested positive for. He should have either knew better and did nothing or figured out how all the others get around or pass the testing.

But anyways the kid has great timing, both because and don't lol me either because FF is now a huge factor in all things NFL and Goodell and Co. know it, the bigger the star the more it will become a bigger issue for them and the Cleveland team, fans and FF players. He also has a very strong case in regard to his last test as one was just above and another just below the legal threshold and both just slightly showing up at all which is what happens when it might be from being near or around second hand smoke and inhaling it by just breathing the air that you are in at the time especially if its in a closed car or room.

Well anyways, This is entirely another issue but i do have some very strong opinions and insight into this matter as well and it does have a bit to do with the Gordon case as far as being such a light suspension. Ray Rice imo just caught a major break in his situation hes the one who should have gotten a year out and if the NFL new at all that the 2nd and very ugly video of Rice actually punching his wife to be right in the face as hard as he could with a hay-maker kill punch which caught her square on the jaw and knocked her out cold and concussed her, she next awoke in the ER from what ive read about that situation ( read that description of the act by a person who did in fact see the video) so had the NFL at all thought it was possible of the 2nd video surfacing they would have given him at least eight games imo..the public and women rights groups would have demanded that or worse and picketed games etc etc imo and women are the #1 target audience for the NFL as far as gaining new fans, lets face it they have all us guys already, so. I just have to believe that would be the case and that the NFL has been assured that that tape has either been destroyed or will never get into the hands of the TMZ's of the world or Rice would never have gotten off so easily.Now back to the subject at hand...Gordons situation

This whole thing I believe all has a lot to do with what Jim Irsay will get for his situation/punishment which will come out after all the players issues are done and which will likely be soon after Gordon's i would think? I say the NFLPA and the NFL are talking behind closed doors about these things and that if Irsay gets off lightly then the NFLPA won't make a huge issue of it IF there players get a shake also. Jim Irsay does not want to miss many or any of his teams games, that you can be sure of and is Goodells boss and a billionaire. So chances are great this has something to do with the outcomes of some players suspensions and disciplines especially the stars like Gordon (who could be a one of a kind talent and top 5 WR playing now and possibly ever if he gets his act together, hes that good and talented and NFL needs his types on the filed playing) who help carry the sport on TV and with us fans and FF players. I say he get 4-8 games tops but have no clue if he will or won't screw it up again after that.

My two cents....carry on.

 
Gordon IMO will catch a break and for many different reasons. #1 being the timing of it all and that his last tests in question (for cannabis, which is a joke in and of itself) its legal and being prescribed by Doctors for everything from glaucoma to back pain not to mention many other things as well and its also LEGAL and or decriminalized in a few states and about to be in many more ) were low and barely above the threshold and another test that was taken that was actually under it. I know for a fact that second hand smoke can cause a positive test if the levels they test for are as low as the NFL threshold is. A relative of mine many years ago now beat a case where he lost his job for a positive test for pot and hired a lawyer and it was determined that it was indeed form second hand smoke when eh was riding around with his buddies and they were smoking with windows done and on many occasion, so he showed a positive result for cannabis in his system but just barely enough to show that it was in his system but not bear where a regular smoker or pothead levels would be. Well anyways he beat the case and got his job back and this was at least 15-20 years ago now. So it can and has happened before.
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Not in the NFL.

 
cstu said:
Gordon IMO will catch a break and for many different reasons. #1 being the timing of it all and that his last tests in question (for cannabis, which is a joke in and of itself) its legal and being prescribed by Doctors for everything from glaucoma to back pain not to mention many other things as well and its also LEGAL and or decriminalized in a few states and about to be in many more ) were low and barely above the threshold and another test that was taken that was actually under it. I know for a fact that second hand smoke can cause a positive test if the levels they test for are as low as the NFL threshold is. A relative of mine many years ago now beat a case where he lost his job for a positive test for pot and hired a lawyer and it was determined that it was indeed form second hand smoke when eh was riding around with his buddies and they were smoking with windows done and on many occasion, so he showed a positive result for cannabis in his system but just barely enough to show that it was in his system but not bear where a regular smoker or pothead levels would be. Well anyways he beat the case and got his job back and this was at least 15-20 years ago now. So it can and has happened before.
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Not in the NFL.
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Right, when has anyone caught a break in the NFL? The isn't the US Judicial System. It is a freaking penalty for dunking the ball after a TD, why would they bend the rules for marijuana use? That said, I did draft him late and hope that for some insane reason there is leniency shown....I just don't see the precedent.

 
DonnyT33 said:
I have had a very good take on this matter since its first began and have drafted my teams accordingly. But like a few have mentioned i seen (ive just checked this post for first time 10

My two cents....carry on.
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Your two cents are basically a re-hasing of most of the arguments for why Gordon wont' get suspended (or will get a lighter suspension) from the last 75+ pages of this thread.


1-It doesn't matter if weed is legal in some states. It wouldn't matter if it was legal in Ohio. The NFLPA agreed to have it a banned substance in their CBA.

2-It doesn't matter if Gordon's levels were "REALLY LOW." They were above the NFL threshold, which the NFLPA agreed to.

3-It doesn't matter if you knew a guy who had a friend whose ex-girlfriend's cousin's roomate's neighbor's uncle once was able to get around a drug test because he claimed it was 2nd-hand smoke. That has NEVER worked (according to all reports) in the NFL.

4-Fantasy football is not going to impact the NFL's decisons; not on the Gordon matter, not on new rules (longer XP), not on the schedule, etc. It's just naive to think otherwise.

5-Rice's suspension isn't going to impact Gordon's. They were based on two separate policies, and the substance abuse policy has set consequences for 3rd offenses (which is what Gordon faces), while the player conduct policy doesn't have set consequences for 1st offenders (which is what Rice was).
 
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