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WR Josh Gordon, KC (4 Viewers)

daveR said:
Yep.  This concerns me.  I thought his head was on straight these days, but I guess not.  Same stuff happened years ago when he came back from injury & derailed the season for Hoyer & the team.  Another problem for the Browns: Is someone of his immense talent worthwhile if he isn't disciplined enough to run accurate patterns?
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This seems a little harsh if I'm interpreting your point correctly.   A few mental mistakes seem pretty understandable imo considering the situation (short window of time w/ team once reinstated, thrown into starting lineup immediately upon return, time away from game, and staff and team around him). 

 
Rushmore said:
This seems a little harsh if I'm interpreting your point correctly.   A few mental mistakes seem pretty understandable imo considering the situation (short window of time w/ team once reinstated, thrown into starting lineup immediately upon return, time away from game, and staff and team around him). 
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No.  It's not "mental mistakes".  It's intentional freelancing.  Then there's a play in his first game back where he ran a deep route, then loafed coming off the field, while the clock wound down.  Unfortunately, it looks like he's still a "me first" player.  (Then there's the mugging for the camera...)  I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not liking what I'm seeing.

 
I’m benching Josh “the savior” Gordon for the league championship game in order to start Cole at Flex. Tate/MJones have a great matchup, and AJ Green is my #1 pick so he’s starting. 

Not because Cole is a world beater, but his matchup is way way way better.

And while it’s 100% meaningless to have the “double”, I do also have Bortles which makes it a bit more fun to watch. 

Perhaps I’ll regret it - I know for sure @Soulfly3 hates this decision. But I think it’s the right play. 

 
daveR said:
No.  It's not "mental mistakes".  It's intentional freelancing.  Then there's a play in his first game back where he ran a deep route, then loafed coming off the field, while the clock wound down.  Unfortunately, it looks like he's still a "me first" player.  (Then there's the mugging for the camera...)  I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not liking what I'm seeing.
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I have no idea what you mean by "intentional freelancing". He thought Kizer would make the same read he did and that didn't happen. WRs and QBs are supposed to read defenses and make adjustments, Gordon misread the appropriate adjustment for the coverage and acknowledged his mistake.  He didn't just decide to run deep because he can.

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
I’m benching Josh “the savior” Gordon for the league championship game in order to start Cole at Flex. Tate/MJones have a great matchup, and AJ Green is my #1 pick so he’s starting. 

Not because Cole is a world beater, but his matchup is way way way better.

And while it’s 100% meaningless to have the “double”, I do also have Bortles which makes it a bit more fun to watch. 

Perhaps I’ll regret it - I know for sure @Soulfly3 hates this decision. But I think it’s the right play. 
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I am pondering this as well. It's not Gordon, Kizer is the one I am afraid of.

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
I’m benching Josh “the savior” Gordon for the league championship game in order to start Cole at Flex. Tate/MJones have a great matchup, and AJ Green is my #1 pick so he’s starting. 

Not because Cole is a world beater, but his matchup is way way way better.

And while it’s 100% meaningless to have the “double”, I do also have Bortles which makes it a bit more fun to watch. 

Perhaps I’ll regret it - I know for sure @Soulfly3 hates this decision. But I think it’s the right play. 
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I'd stay with Gordon myself but then again my devotion to his upside might cost me around $125K so maybe I'm a bad source.

 
seahawk 17 said:
I am pondering this as well. It's not Gordon, Kizer is the one I am afraid of.
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Same here.

not to mention the blame game & other off-field things seeming to pop up. Talk of possibly benching Kizer, talk of Gordon running poor routes, twitter stuff...just not feeling it, especially with a tough Chicago secondary. Very underrated secondary this year, masked by some ineptitude on offense. 

 
Note: there’s always the possibility that I miss Cole off waivers tonight. In which case I’d claim the only viable QB available (Eli Manning) and my opponent would have to add Kizer at QB.   :X

so yeah - I’m pretty sure it’ll be Cole. and if it’s not, it likely won’t matter who I start at Flex. ;)  

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
$125k? Who dafaq is in your fantasy league, Bill Gates?  :confused:
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Not like that, it's a fairly small entry fee of $333 but  I have a co-owner on this team so only ran me half of that  but it's one of those national type contests that starts with a few thousand teams and gives first place a big prize, which is $250K. I got a team in 8th place, and some teams ahead of me started Gordon both weeks as well(it runs weeks 14-16) so I'm not the only one, but I benched Davante Adams in week 14 and Landry last week so it's been costly. Me and co-owner wish we'd never never picked up Gordon, we've used him because we can't quit his upside but reality is we think he's the worst FA pick of the year for us because of who he got us to sit.

But enough about my teams. While Gordon has disappointed me on that team and his fantasy scoring is more low end WR2/high end WR3 stuff I still think he's looked tremendous and people in here who are pilling on him and/or Soulfly don't know what they are talking about, box score scouting at it's finest.

 
menobrown said:
Not like that, it's a fairly small entry fee of $333 but  I have a co-owner on this team so only ran me half of that  but it's one of those national type contests that starts with a few thousand teams and gives first place a big prize, which is $250K. I got a team in 8th place, and some teams ahead of me started Gordon both weeks as well(it runs weeks 14-16) so I'm not the only one, but I benched Davante Adams in week 14 and Landry last week so it's been costly. Me and co-owner wish we'd never never picked up Gordon, we've used him because we can't quit his upside but reality is we think he's the worst FA pick of the year for us because of who he got us to sit.
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Ah - yeah, jokes aside I kinda figured. I played in WCOFF once so I get it. ;)

Can you change your lineup for 14-16 or is it locked?  I gotta say, I like Crowder a lot more. I’m facing him in my LCG & have him in my IDP (playing for 3rd place) and he’s been money. But you’re right - Gordon’s upside is undeniable. 

I’m still on the fence. Heck could sit AJ Green for that matter, but id feel super dumb benching my #1 pick & losing because of it. 

But enough about my teams. While Gordon has disappointed me on that team and his fantasy scoring is more low end WR2/high end WR3 stuff I still think he's looked tremendous and people in here who are pilling on him and/or Soulfly don't know what they are talking about, box score scouting at it's finest.
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I agree - Gordon looks better than his numbers. He had 2/69 & a TD on one drive in week 14. Then kizer did his thing & the end result wasn’t great. :doh:  

but Gordon has crazy upside. Every week. 

I stil may play him over Cole. 

 
menobrown said:
Not like that, it's a fairly small entry fee of $333 but  I have a co-owner on this team so only ran me half of that  but it's one of those national type contests that starts with a few thousand teams and gives first place a big prize, which is $250K. I got a team in 8th place, and some teams ahead of me started Gordon both weeks as well(it runs weeks 14-16) so I'm not the only one, but I benched Davante Adams in week 14 and Landry last week so it's been costly. Me and co-owner wish we'd never never picked up Gordon, we've used him because we can't quit his upside but reality is we think he's the worst FA pick of the year for us because of who he got us to sit.

But enough about my teams. While Gordon has disappointed me on that team and his fantasy scoring is more low end WR2/high end WR3 stuff I still think he's looked tremendous and people in here who are pilling on him and/or Soulfly don't know what they are talking about, box score scouting at it's finest.
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I'm rolling him out with confidence on the off chance that he goes off and wins me a championship. 

I'd love that.  

 
Chaka said:
I have no idea what you mean by "intentional freelancing". He thought Kizer would make the same read he did and that didn't happen. WRs and QBs are supposed to read defenses and make adjustments, Gordon misread the appropriate adjustment for the coverage and acknowledged his mistake.  He didn't just decide to run deep because he can.
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If the play being referenced is what I think it is, then Gordon was probably right in that he had the safety beat and the corner was trailing. But if the play call was to sit down in between them then it's asking a lot for Kizer to read that he had him deep on the fly like that. Even a real Qb probably can't make that adjustment.

 
Cobbler1 said:
If the play being referenced is what I think it is, then Gordon was probably right in that he had the safety beat and the corner was trailing. But if the play call was to sit down in between them then it's asking a lot for Kizer to read that he had him deep on the fly like that. Even a real Qb probably can't make that adjustment.
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Lots of interceptions result from that sort of thing. 

Unless the QB & RB are on the same page of “if you’ve got a step on him, keep going” it’s asking for trouble. 

A lot of those buttonhook routes are timing routes. Sometimes the ball is out while the receiver still has his back to the QB. 

You cannot have a WR not on the same page as the QB on that kind of route. If Gordon was indeed freelancing there, that’s bad. 

 
Oh who am I kidding. I’m gonna start Gordon at flex. 

11 targets is 11 targets. And I’d love to win a championship with him. 

Just when I think I’m out, they pull you back in! 

:doh:  

 
menobrown said:
Not like that, it's a fairly small entry fee of $333 but  I have a co-owner on this team so only ran me half of that  but it's one of those national type contests that starts with a few thousand teams and gives first place a big prize, which is $250K. I got a team in 8th place, and some teams ahead of me started Gordon both weeks as well(it runs weeks 14-16) so I'm not the only one, but I benched Davante Adams in week 14 and Landry last week so it's been costly. Me and co-owner wish we'd never never picked up Gordon, we've used him because we can't quit his upside but reality is we think he's the worst FA pick of the year for us because of who he got us to sit.

But enough about my teams. While Gordon has disappointed me on that team and his fantasy scoring is more low end WR2/high end WR3 stuff I still think he's looked tremendous and people in here who are pilling on him and/or Soulfly don't know what they are talking about, box score scouting at it's finest.
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Are you co-owning with a bigdog from Geneva?

 
menobrown said:
Not like that, it's a fairly small entry fee of $333 but  I have a co-owner on this team so only ran me half of that  but it's one of those national type contests that starts with a few thousand teams and gives first place a big prize, which is $250K. I got a team in 8th place, and some teams ahead of me started Gordon both weeks as well(it runs weeks 14-16) so I'm not the only one, but I benched Davante Adams in week 14 and Landry last week so it's been costly. Me and co-owner wish we'd never never picked up Gordon, we've used him because we can't quit his upside but reality is we think he's the worst FA pick of the year for us because of who he got us to sit.

But enough about my teams. While Gordon has disappointed me on that team and his fantasy scoring is more low end WR2/high end WR3 stuff I still think he's looked tremendous and people in here who are pilling on him and/or Soulfly don't know what they are talking about, box score scouting at it's finest.
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Went you think of all the people who ####ed up by picking up Gordon, add up the missed opportunity cost of passing on a better player and then have better producing players on the bench to make room to start this consistent underachiever, and then add up all the lost winnings...combined we could have solved world hunger and no one would be sleeping in the cold tonight and we'd still have enough left over to buy all the Gordon owners a championship trophy.

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Oh who am I kidding. I’m gonna start Gordon at flex. 

11 targets is 11 targets. And I’d love to win a championship with him. 

Just when I think I’m out, they pull you back in! 

:doh:  
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We're addicted to playing Gordon like he's addicted to drugs and alcohol.

 
seahawk 17 said:
I am drunk and confused if u are answering me or your own post. My Championship does not depend on Gordon.  Furthermore, I can't believe you are a SF fan...your sauce tasted better than that. ?
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:lol:   - your boys Wilson & Baldwin knocked me out of my IDP playoffs - never again. Never again will I draft Seahawks. Ever. :angry:  

Also yeah, i was answering you...though I answered my own question while answering you. 

Kessler doesn’t exactly inspire confidence.    :unsure:

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
:lol:   - your boys Wilson & Baldwin knocked me out of my IDP playoffs - never again. Never again will I draft Seahawks. Ever. :angry:  

Also yeah, i was answering you...though I answered my own question while answering you. 

Kessler doesn’t exactly inspire confidence.    :unsure:
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I do not mix fantasy and NFL. I have zero Seahawks. You and I could target Gordon 16 times a game...see Hopkins. 

If Kessler, or you, or Charlie Whitehurst starts this weekend...I can't leave him on the bench.

IDP:Should of had Wagner.

 
I may start Gordon. Just lost Brown heading to the Championship game.  I have Thielen, Dez, Tate and Gordon. Leaning towards Thielen and Gordon (standard) at WR right now.  I thnk Cole is available, but would be tough to pick him up and start him over my other options.

 
Bazinga! said:
Not box score scouting at all.  Some of us were realistic about this year.  He had a 3 yr layoff, limited practice time to have any chemistry with his QB at all and Kizer as his QB.  I understand his potential.  I also umderstand the situation.

From a dynasty perspective I also know his past history and the real risk of another setback reducing his value to zero permanently.

I would say too many were hopeful and not thoughtful.  As for Soulfy.  His hyperbole begs us to pile on.
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He's looked tremendous since he returned, just bad QB play and way the ball bounces sometimes.  He's barely missed on several long catches, none of that is hopeful or not thoughtful. If you started Julio Jones over Gordon since his return you'd probably say that was thoughtful, Gordon has outscored him every single week since his return. Again, just the way things go sometimes and we are talking about a 3 game sample size.

Point remains, if anyone thinks Gordon has not played well since he returned, you are not watching him play.

 
Bazinga! said:
Cherry picking Julio doesn't change that Gordon's overall situation was/is questionable at best.  I personally have never said Gordon looked bad.  I just thought/think starting him with the hopeful projections I was seeing on here was questionable at best.   I stand by my statement, hopeful but not thoughtful.
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Was cherry picking Mike Evans hopeful or thoughtful?

I say that mostly a jest because you're right but at what point does that flip?

For example since Gordon's return (3 games):

Gordon 28 targets, 12 catches (43% catch rate), 16.8 ypr, 201 yards, 1 TD + 9, 14 & 8 fantasy points in my league.  He is WR #21 over that span.

Evans 19 targets, 9 catches (47% catch rate), 15.2 ypr, 137 yards, 1 TD + 4, 3 & 18 fantasy points. WR#36

Julio 25 targets, 10 catches (40% catch rate), 17.6 ypr, 176 yards 0 TD & 3, 11 & 6 fantasy points. WR#51

Is it really hopeful to consider starting Gordon over Evans or Julio at this point? I think you have to roll Julio out over him because Ryan is that much better as a QB (of course that also means he's better at checking down) and Julio is still getting target volume but Evans? No, I don't think it's hopeful to start Gordon over Evans at this point.

Gordon is the real deal and the only thing holding him back is his QB. Yet even with that limitation he is clearly a viable #2 WR with as much upside as any player in the league.

I am sorry that some people take @Soulfly3 so seriously that they actually expect 200+ yards and multiple TDs every week (although it says a lot about Gordon that people consider that attainable). IMO that's on them, not Soulfly if they don't get his shtick at this point they probably don't get shtick at all.

 
Chaka said:
Bazinga! said:
Cherry picking Julio doesn't change that Gordon's overall situation was/is questionable at best.  I personally have never said Gordon looked bad.  I just thought/think starting him with the hopeful projections I was seeing on here was questionable at best.   I stand by my statement, hopeful but not thoughtful.
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Was cherry picking Mike Evans hopeful or thoughtful?

I say that mostly a jest because you're right but at what point does that flip?

For example since Gordon's return (3 games):

Gordon 28 targets, 12 catches (43% catch rate), 16.8 ypr, 201 yards, 1 TD + 9, 14 & 8 fantasy points in my league.  He is WR #21 over that span.

Evans 19 targets, 9 catches (47% catch rate), 15.2 ypr, 137 yards, 1 TD + 4, 3 & 18 fantasy points. WR#36

Julio 25 targets, 10 catches (40% catch rate), 17.6 ypr, 176 yards 0 TD & 3, 11 & 6 fantasy points. WR#51

Is it really hopeful to consider starting Gordon over Evans or Julio at this point? I think you have to roll Julio out over him because Ryan is that much better as a QB (of course that also means he's better at checking down) and Julio is still getting target volume but Evans? No, I don't think it's hopeful to start Gordon over Evans at this point.

Gordon is the real deal and the only thing holding him back is his QB. Yet even with that limitation he is clearly a viable #2 WR with as much upside as any player in the league.

I am sorry that some people take @Soulfly3 so seriously that they actually expect 200+ yards and multiple TDs every week (although it says a lot about Gordon that people consider that attainable). IMO that's on them, not Soulfly if they don't get his shtick at this point they probably don't get shtick at all.
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You can definitely tell the luster is starting to fade when we make it to Wednesday without someone bringing upside he has about the most upside of anyone in the league.  Kind of sad that @Soulfly3 is MIA.  I really miss the posts predicting 150 and 2 and telling us to bench everyone in the league except Antonio Brown.  Special thanks for you guys Keerocking Brown in a season ending injury.

 
i dont wanna hear about gordon's upside this week... there is no hidden unlockable upside.... the QB isnt all of a sudden going to provide more catchable targets, the defense this week has been decent limiting explosive WR games... keep your upside, another wr3ish performance is likely

 
I'm benching for JuJu. Yes, I have Tryreek, Thielen, Juju, and Gordon. 

That's why I'm in the championship. Good drafts, people. Good drafts.  And a free agent on the wire. Still thinking of flexing Gordon because I want to win with him in my lineup.  

 
BassNBrew said:
You can definitely tell the luster is starting to fade when we make it to Wednesday without someone bringing upside he has about the most upside of anyone in the league.  Kind of sad that @Soulfly3 is MIA.  I really miss the posts predicting 150 and 2 and telling us to bench everyone in the league except Antonio Brown.  Special thanks for you guys Keerocking Brown in a season ending injury.
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Was the word "upside" the only thing you took from my post? That word seems to be some form of catnip for you. 

I thought the fact that Gordon has been consistent in volume and production while putting up WR#2 production might be a factor too. After all I thought so many people in here wanted to talk about production and not pointless back'n'forths having nothing to do with football.

Guess not.

At least @Soulfly3's shtick isn't based on the ever so hopeful "Gotcha!" mentality or just mean spirited. 

 
rockaction said:
I'm benching for JuJu. Yes, I have Tryreek, Thielen, Juju, and Gordon. 

.  
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I got team where I drafted AB/Julio/Gordon in startup in 2013, still have all 3 and would easily say the first two were major cornerstones on what's been a great team for years. So that is in my head  this week as I ponder benching Julio for both Gordon and JuJu and having two of my main cornerstones not in my lineup during the week to win the championship. Seems crazy, but that's how I'm leaning right now and that was before I knew Julio had an ankle injury.

As for the person who I said I cherry picked my argument for introducing fact that Gordon has outscored Julio all 3 weeks since he's been active.  I don't cherry pick, in fact I don't care to win an argument at all, I introduced Julio because I was sitting around yesterday chewing on this decision when it dawned on me that Gordon had outscored him every week he's been active. And this is key to note because if you said Julio had as much upside as any WR in the league you would not be wrong, but in a small 3 game sample size he's been anything but that. That's key to note as it pertains to Gordon and Soulfly as in just because he has not blown up does not mean he lacks the upside potential and sure is no reason to pile on Soulfly. Had Gordon looked like crap that would be a different story, but that's not the case.

 
menobrown said:
I got team where I drafted AB/Julio/Gordon in startup in 2013, still have all 3 and would easily say the first two were major cornerstones on what's been a great team for years. So that is in my head  this week as I ponder benching Julio for both Gordon and JuJu and having two of my main cornerstones not in my lineup during the week to win the championship. Seems crazy, but that's how I'm leaning right now and that was before I knew Julio had an ankle injury.

As for the person who I said I cherry picked my argument for introducing fact that Gordon has outscored Julio all 3 weeks since he's been active.  I don't cherry pick, in fact I don't care to win an argument at all, I introduced Julio because I was sitting around yesterday chewing on this decision when it dawned on me that Gordon had outscored him every week he's been active. And this is key to note because if you said Julio had as much upside as any WR in the league you would not be wrong, but in a small 3 game sample size he's been anything but that. That's key to note as it pertains to Gordon and Soulfly as in just because he has not blown up does not mean he lacks the upside potential and sure is no reason to pile on Soulfly. Had Gordon looked like crap that would be a different story, but that's not the case.
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I can't see benching Julio. He has definitely disappointed the last three weeks (heck he has been a disappointment for most of the season) but he is still getting good volume (25 targets over the last three games, to 28 for Gordon) and Ryan is just a much, much better QB than Kizer will ever be so Julio's hitting his high end potential seems much more likely.  Plus New Orleans is a strong offensive team, inconsistent defensive one and plays in a dome.  This game has potential to be a shootout, and certainly doesn't look likely to turn into a 6-9 field goal fest as which seems much more likely in Chicago this week.  I really like Gordon and he has looked much better than I had hoped but, because of Kizer for Gordon to hit high end WR#1 numbers will require getting lucky probably twice against Chicago, which is certainly possible but not something I would bet on. Considering Julio hitting his upside just requires one of the top QBs and WRs in the league to just do what they do, he seems like the clearly better option, regardless of what has happened over the last three games.

 
Yeah, the Julio/Gordon debate is out of my league. 

Like, literally. 

I've got Tyreek the freak, Thielen (was a twelfth or so round stealin'), and JuJu, and Gordon. 

Love this team. Championship week!  

Oh, and Bell and Elliott, too. 

My only problem is QB and TE. 

 
Yeah, cursed to be a weekly WR#2 after a three year layoff and with, perhaps, the worst QB in the NFL.

So cursed.  Frankly I think @Soulfly3 is much closer to being right than wrong so far.

Nabbing a WR#2 off the waiver wire in week 10 is not exactly a common thing in my league.  YMMV.

 
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