rockaction
Footballguy
By the way, thanks for posting all of that, Jacob's Ladder. That's interesting.
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WR Malik Nabers, NYG (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
TheWinz
Footballguy
How can someone call Navin Johnson a Jerk and everyone misses it?
Jacob's Ladder
Footballguy
I didn't call him a jerk, I said he was being a jerk. Was he not?
Jacob's Ladder
Footballguy
What I posted is just scratching the surface. There's an obvious issue out there but it won't really come into the light until the next round of lawsuits which is bound to occur. When top guys from this period of play start to retire the floodgates of information will really open. The NFL is handling this all very poorly, but what else is new?
rockaction
Footballguy
Now you're playing. It's the movie The Jerk where Navin Johnson is the main character. Steve Martin. I don't really know the movie all that well, although I remember the joke his family reads about some nice woman who told him she's going to give him a job. Of the blow variety.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Sorry, thought this was the Malik Nabers thread.
Chaka
Footballguy
.
Chaka
Footballguy
Thanks for taking the time in that. Your Google-Fu is strong.Just for the record this is not information the NFL likes to freely discuss but here are a few interesting articles if you’re interested. I’ve heard much more lengthy and in depth discussions on sports talk radio and podcasts but there’s plenty of smoke if you care to look.
- YouTube
Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.m.youtube.com
NFL player who retired at age 24 over head-injury concerns says it's easy to cheat the concussion protocol
Chris Borland is one of many figures to say the NFL concussion protocol is easy for players to work around.www.businessinsider.com
To avoid concussion rules, some players sandbag their baseline tests
NFL players are given tests to determine their baseline brain functioning so that if they suffer a concussion, they can be held out until they return to their previous levels.www.nbcsports.com
NFL aware of concussion test cheating | Fox Sports
NFL commissioner Roger Goodell told FOXSports.com on Wednesday that he was aware of players intentionally scoring lower on the initial baseline testing used to help determine the severity of a head injury.amp.foxsports.com
NFL concussion protocol cannot save football
NFL players are going to try to fake the concussion protocol, no matter how good it is.www.sbnation.com
Report: Concussion Test Susceptible to Cheating
A common test that screen for concussions can easily be duped, according to new research from Butler University that was reported on by the Washington Post.www.athleticbusiness.com
A few of them site the same source from the Manning article in 2011.
The idea that the players try to game the test isn't, or shouldn't be, shocking. Of course they do. I don't think anyone suggested they don't.
What is missing from any of those articles is any indication that the NFL is complicit in that gamesmanship.
dkp993
Footballguy
I’d add hamstring to this too
Jacob's Ladder
Footballguy
I never stated the NFL is complicit in players manipulating the concussion check, did I? I believe the NFL even levies some sort of nominal fine if teams/players are caught. I simply stated it's occurring and was challenged on that information.Thanks for taking the time in that. Your Google-Fu is strong.Just for the record this is not information the NFL likes to freely discuss but here are a few interesting articles if you’re interested. I’ve heard much more lengthy and in depth discussions on sports talk radio and podcasts but there’s plenty of smoke if you care to look.
- YouTube
Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
NFL player who retired at age 24 over head-injury concerns says it's easy to cheat the concussion protocol
Chris Borland is one of many figures to say the NFL concussion protocol is easy for players to work around.
To avoid concussion rules, some players sandbag their baseline tests
NFL players are given tests to determine their baseline brain functioning so that if they suffer a concussion, they can be held out until they return to their previous levels.
NFL aware of concussion test cheating | Fox Sports
NFL commissioner Roger Goodell told FOXSports.com on Wednesday that he was aware of players intentionally scoring lower on the initial baseline testing used to help determine the severity of a head injury.
NFL concussion protocol cannot save football
NFL players are going to try to fake the concussion protocol, no matter how good it is.
Report: Concussion Test Susceptible to Cheating
A common test that screen for concussions can easily be duped, according to new research from Butler University that was reported on by the Washington Post.
A few of them site the same source from the Manning article in 2011.
The idea that the players try to game the test isn't, or shouldn't be, shocking. Of course they do. I don't think anyone suggested they don't.
What is missing from any of those articles is any indication that the NFL is complicit in that gamesmanship.
What I did assert in regards to the NFL is that the unwritten but seemingly very real standard that players with a concussion will miss one game is arbitrary, reckless and in consequence, dangerous. Pre-Tua, players were back in a week even if written concussion protocol was similar if not exactly the same as it is now. Post Tua, nearly all players started missing exactly 1 game regardless of whether or not the concussion happened on a Thursday or a Monday. I have seen no scientific evidence to back what is happening right now. This will burn the NFL in the future, I have little doubt.
Like I said, most of the juiciest information in regards to protocol sandbagging and manipulation will be found in podcasts and radio shows with former NFL players. I don't have the time or desire to try and dig up all of what I've heard, but it's out there. What I posted after a quick search is just scratching the surface. If you're interested, dig. If not, don't. It doesn't really matter to me either way but the poster that suggested the problem didn't exist is trolling, coming here just to be some kind of jerk or something.
rockaction
Footballguy
No, you didn't. You've quite clearly made your point and I'm not sure where the confusion or the accusations are coming from (or why they're happening). I think you've been clear. The NFL doesn't like to "speak freely" about it. Of course they don't. I don't see anything controversial with your statement that the NFL players are gaming the system and the NFL doesn't want to talk about it because they know that a gamed system hurts these guys in the end.
In fact, at the end of one article, a doctor (that I think works for the NFL) says exactly that. That this is going to hurt the players in the long run so they don't want them lying about it. But that doesn't mean the NFL wants this front and center to all discussion about concussions.
Jacob's Ladder
Footballguy
Thank you, and to be clear, if the NFL knew exactly what to do to help prevent and treat concussions in a more meaningful and impactful way (save for destroying the product by turning it into flag football), I believe they would do it all in an instant. The problem I have with it all is that they're in the "throw **** at the wall and see what sticks" CYA phase of things and not much is really based on scientific evidence or medical studies. This creates a situation that hurts the popularity of the sport (stars not on the field with arbitrary reasoning why) while potentially providing no real additional health benefit to the player. Their course of action seems like the worst of two worlds. The NFL can't really talk about any of it openly on the record for obvious liability and future litigation reasons.
Chaka
Footballguy
Apologies, I am not trying to debate you into a corner. I am not trying to win an argument on the internet either. I've been doing this too long to try that.I never stated the NFL is complicit in players manipulating the concussion check, did I? I believe the NFL even levies some sort of nominal fine if teams/players are caught. I simply stated it's occurring and was challenged on that information.Thanks for taking the time in that. Your Google-Fu is strong.Just for the record this is not information the NFL likes to freely discuss but here are a few interesting articles if you’re interested. I’ve heard much more lengthy and in depth discussions on sports talk radio and podcasts but there’s plenty of smoke if you care to look.
- YouTube
Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
NFL player who retired at age 24 over head-injury concerns says it's easy to cheat the concussion protocol
Chris Borland is one of many figures to say the NFL concussion protocol is easy for players to work around.
To avoid concussion rules, some players sandbag their baseline tests
NFL players are given tests to determine their baseline brain functioning so that if they suffer a concussion, they can be held out until they return to their previous levels.
NFL aware of concussion test cheating | Fox Sports
NFL commissioner Roger Goodell told FOXSports.com on Wednesday that he was aware of players intentionally scoring lower on the initial baseline testing used to help determine the severity of a head injury.
NFL concussion protocol cannot save football
NFL players are going to try to fake the concussion protocol, no matter how good it is.
Report: Concussion Test Susceptible to Cheating
A common test that screen for concussions can easily be duped, according to new research from Butler University that was reported on by the Washington Post.
A few of them site the same source from the Manning article in 2011.
The idea that the players try to game the test isn't, or shouldn't be, shocking. Of course they do. I don't think anyone suggested they don't.
What is missing from any of those articles is any indication that the NFL is complicit in that gamesmanship.
What I did assert in regards to the NFL is that the unwritten but seemingly very real standard that players with a concussion will miss one game is arbitrary, reckless and in consequence, dangerous. Pre-Tua, players were back in a week even if written concussion protocol was similar if not exactly the same as it is now. Post Tua, nearly all players started missing exactly 1 game regardless of whether or not the concussion happened on a Thursday or a Monday. I have seen no scientific evidence to back what is happening right now. This will burn the NFL in the future, I have little doubt.
Like I said, most of the juiciest information in regards to protocol sandbagging and manipulation will be found in podcasts and radio shows with former NFL players. I don't have the time or desire to try and dig up all of what I've heard, but it's out there. What I posted after a quick search is just scratching the surface. If you're interested, dig. If not, don't. It doesn't really matter to me either way but the poster that suggested the problem didn't exist is trolling, coming here just to be some kind of jerk or something.
Calling the standard arbitrary is where I have my point of contention. Doesn't that make the league complicit?
Has no one post Tua ever had a concussion diagnosis on Sunday (or Thursday, Monday, Friday, Saturday... jeez why does the NFL hate Tuesday and Wednesday?) and cleared the protocol before the following game? You say yourself "nearly all players started missing games", which feels like a hedge against your first statement about missing time being arbitrary.
More importantly has anyone ever sat out a game, still had concussion symptoms are was allowed to play after missing the first "arbitrary" game? There's your smoking gun, and maybe in a few years after some guy retire we will start hearing stories that support the theory.
I am sure a study could be performed regarding concussion duration pre and post Tua and it would probably support the notion that the NFL is being far more conservative with concussions. I do believe more players are being held out because they exhibit even questionable symptoms of lingering concussions. I am not sure that is something that will burn the NFL in the future. It seems like a smart practice. Remember there was essentially gross maleficence on the part of the neurotrauma doctor in the Tua situation, of course the NFL would bring the hammer down on the concussion guidelines after something as scary as that.
So far I don't think we have anything other than the highly predictable "fact" that NFL players want to play even if it won't be good for their long term health.
Jacob's Ladder
Footballguy
No, arbitrary does not mean complicit.Apologies, I am not trying to debate you into a corner. I am not trying to win an argument on the internet either. I've been doing this too long to try that.I never stated the NFL is complicit in players manipulating the concussion check, did I? I believe the NFL even levies some sort of nominal fine if teams/players are caught. I simply stated it's occurring and was challenged on that information.Thanks for taking the time in that. Your Google-Fu is strong.Just for the record this is not information the NFL likes to freely discuss but here are a few interesting articles if you’re interested. I’ve heard much more lengthy and in depth discussions on sports talk radio and podcasts but there’s plenty of smoke if you care to look.
- YouTube
Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
NFL player who retired at age 24 over head-injury concerns says it's easy to cheat the concussion protocol
Chris Borland is one of many figures to say the NFL concussion protocol is easy for players to work around.
To avoid concussion rules, some players sandbag their baseline tests
NFL players are given tests to determine their baseline brain functioning so that if they suffer a concussion, they can be held out until they return to their previous levels.
NFL aware of concussion test cheating | Fox Sports
NFL commissioner Roger Goodell told FOXSports.com on Wednesday that he was aware of players intentionally scoring lower on the initial baseline testing used to help determine the severity of a head injury.
NFL concussion protocol cannot save football
NFL players are going to try to fake the concussion protocol, no matter how good it is.
Report: Concussion Test Susceptible to Cheating
A common test that screen for concussions can easily be duped, according to new research from Butler University that was reported on by the Washington Post.
A few of them site the same source from the Manning article in 2011.
The idea that the players try to game the test isn't, or shouldn't be, shocking. Of course they do. I don't think anyone suggested they don't.
What is missing from any of those articles is any indication that the NFL is complicit in that gamesmanship.
What I did assert in regards to the NFL is that the unwritten but seemingly very real standard that players with a concussion will miss one game is arbitrary, reckless and in consequence, dangerous. Pre-Tua, players were back in a week even if written concussion protocol was similar if not exactly the same as it is now. Post Tua, nearly all players started missing exactly 1 game regardless of whether or not the concussion happened on a Thursday or a Monday. I have seen no scientific evidence to back what is happening right now. This will burn the NFL in the future, I have little doubt.
Like I said, most of the juiciest information in regards to protocol sandbagging and manipulation will be found in podcasts and radio shows with former NFL players. I don't have the time or desire to try and dig up all of what I've heard, but it's out there. What I posted after a quick search is just scratching the surface. If you're interested, dig. If not, don't. It doesn't really matter to me either way but the poster that suggested the problem didn't exist is trolling, coming here just to be some kind of jerk or something.
Calling the standard arbitrary is where I have my point of contention. Doesn't that make the league complicit?
Has no one post Tua ever had a concussion diagnosis on Sunday (or Thursday, Monday, Friday, Saturday... jeez why does the NFL hate Tuesday and Wednesday?) and cleared the protocol before the following game? You say yourself "nearly all players started missing games", which feels like a hedge against your first statement about missing time being arbitrary.
More importantly has anyone ever sat out a game, still had concussion symptoms are was allowed to play after missing the first "arbitrary" game? There's your smoking gun, and maybe in a few years after some guy retire we will start hearing stories that support the theory.
I am sure a study could be performed regarding concussion duration pre and post Tua and it would probably support the notion that the NFL is being far more conservative with concussions. I do believe more players are being held out because they exhibit even questionable symptoms of lingering concussions. I am not sure that is something that will burn the NFL in the future. It seems like a smart practice. Remember there was essentially gross maleficence on the part of the neurotrauma doctor in the Tua situation, of course the NFL would bring the hammer down on the concussion guidelines after something as scary as that.
So far I don't think we have anything other than the highly predictable "fact" that NFL players want to play even if it won't be good for their long term health.
It appears players are being forced to miss exactly one week with no real scientific or medical evidence to support the new time frame. By definition, that's an arbitrary decision. (1 week - 0 games missed vs 2 weeks - 1 game missed) As I've stated, there are very few cases since Tua's terrible looking concussion where players have been allowed to come back from a concussion in the following game. This type of pattern tells me something is going on behind the scenes, someone decided this is how it needs to be, and it's really hard to believe the change could be random especially considering the timing.
I don't believe the NFL has any idea what to do that would prevent and/or better treat concussions because there isn't much scientific or medical evidence that supports a decision. After the public saw what happened to Tua, which was quite hard to watch, NFL players started missing exactly one game regardless of how much time had passed between games. The NFL had to do something, but what? I believe the NFL would do whatever they could for player safety, the problem is that brain injuries are still very much a mystery. If there was scientific evidence that said players need to sit out one month, that's what the NFL would do. The problem is, there is no such evidence and they are just throwing **** at the wall to see what sticks, to tell everyone they're doing SOMETHING to address the issue. They aren't as concerned with the effectiveness of the something, it seems.
The NFL wants to protect the NFL and its interests. Players want to get paid. Sometimes these things are in lock step, sometimes they are in conflict. Correlation does not equal causation and I do not see the NFL as complicit, they're simply working on incomplete information and doing what they can to appease the masses.
Complicit would mean players have power in how many weeks they miss on the minimum side. This is not the case. Heck, I'm not even sure players have a leg to stand on if they wanted to miss more than one game if they weren't medically cleared. The system is messed up.
Chaka
Footballguy
You go back to this quite a bit as if it were a fact. Nothing in the articles I read points to any evidence that this is true. I am certain more players are held out post Tua if they demonstrate even the mildest concussion symptoms. But, on it's face I reject the notion that a player who does not present symptoms is held out just because.
Jacob's Ladder
Footballguy
It's fact that the number of players that miss one week increased after Tua's injury. Is it enough time and data to be statistically valid? Maybe maybe not, but it's fact. If you're not good at researching this and just picking a fight based on your thoughts, you're wasting my time. It seems to be your MO and there's no reason to engage any further. Carry on with you day. The discussion has gotten so far off the rails it's a little nauseating at this point for me, which means it's got to be driving others crazy.
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
If you need some cheering up, you can read the three-post Triumph history that I put in the MAD 4 thread this morning.
Jacob's Ladder
Footballguy
There won’t be news on Nabers until next Wednesday, check back then.
FWIW I’m passionate about the concussion discussion but I’m done engaging the trolling and gaslighting in this thread.
I concede, I lose the internet.
Jacob's Ladder
Footballguy
He missed a game, he’ll play. Nothing official but it’s become a predictable process.
TheWinz
Footballguy
Malik suffered a concussion at the end of week 4's game, and missed week 5. Here are the NFL players that have missed more than 1 game in a row 2024 due to concussion:
Tua Tagovailoa
I can't name another. Can you?
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
With 10 days I can’t believe he didn’t clear for week 5.
He’ll be out there this week.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
The bigger question is how many concussions has there been in 2024? Doesn't history tell us players miss more than 1 week on average? I could be wrong, but I would be interested in that statistic if anyone has it on hand.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
I think it's like 1.6 weeks so typically 1 week is missed on average. Nabors SHOULD be back this week based on the average but that all depends on how severe the concussion was.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
It can vary greatly on individual cases. My son had one in which I would consider fairly mild initially and had symptoms for at least 3 weeks.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I don't see an average of 1.6 = 1 week. If anything it is slightly more tilted to 2 weeks isn't it?
The Big Donkey
Footballguy
Pat Leonard
@PLeonardNYDN
Kayvon Thibodeaux is week to week with a wrist injury, Brian Daboll says. He had surgery already this morning.
Malik Nabers is still in the concussion protocol but will be on the side with trainers today, has made progress.
RG Greg Van Roten is getting a vet day. LG Jon Runyan Jr. is sick
@PLeonardNYDN
Kayvon Thibodeaux is week to week with a wrist injury, Brian Daboll says. He had surgery already this morning.
Malik Nabers is still in the concussion protocol but will be on the side with trainers today, has made progress.
RG Greg Van Roten is getting a vet day. LG Jon Runyan Jr. is sick
Chaos34
Footballguy
I was hoping for a limited practice today (stage 4 of recovery) but didn't get it. He needs it tomorrow to have a chance to play this weekend.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
As I understand it, he can practice any time up to Friday and get cleared.
Stroud last year missed two weeks with a concussion.
Chaos34
Footballguy
As I understand it, It goes in stages and you can't complete two in a day. Tomorrow needs to be limited practice to clear stage 4, so he can have a full practice Friday and clear stage 5. If it was an ankle tomorrow wouldn't have to be limited.
My daughter had a bad concussion from soccer going into her freshman year of high school. She never lost consciousness but things went "black" for a few seconds and when her vision came back it was very bad (seeing double/triple). She had very little balance and when she walked it was worse than any drunk person I have ever seen. It was so bad it looked like she was faking.
She was told to be on "brain rest" which essentially means do nothing but sit in a dark room and relax. She had tremendous headaches and migraines (never had them before) and had bad sensitivity to light and sound. She had virutally no balance and had to go to physical therapy to relearn her balance.
She was off school (IEP schooling) for her first semester and her headaches diminished and her vision got better (but not back to normal - she now needed glasses) she was eventually allowed back to school for the 2nd semester. From then on she still gets migraines, has some motion sickness, and her vision never came back to normal. This was a many month process.
All that to say in all our doctor's visits with specialists consults they all had the same thing to say. Nobody reacts the same to concussions and it is different for everyone. There is no set time table and there is nothing that can really be done other than time and rest until symptoms subside. So in essence, the NFL, doctors, etc have no idea how these things work so there is no real set process. The NFL is trying and essentially requiring players to be symptom free before coming back to physical activity and then stay symptom free during their re-up on activity.
I am not sure how or what you think the NFL should be doing differently as there is no one right answer. I also don't think the NFL is doing anything wrong with this. Players understand the risks. They are choosing to take on those risks. The NFL has a protocol in place that is as good as they can currently do. It's a problem, but it's nobody's fault. If players want to cover up their symptoms so they can play then it's on them. If the NFL is telling them to cover up their symptoms so they can play then it's on the NFL. I really doubt the latter is happening (any more).
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Right - they have a Friday practice and a Saturday walk -through.
Last time I had a player concussed I’d read they can clear those steps Friday-Saturday.
That’s 2-steps.
Chaos34
Footballguy
I talk to Chat GPT alot...
You said:
Have any players in the protocol been cleared on Saturdays for a Sunday game?ChatGPT said:
Yes, there have been instances where NFL players have been cleared from the concussion protocol on a Saturday for a Sunday game. However, the key detail here is that these players would have already completed the required full-contact practice (stage 5) earlier in the week, typically on Friday.
Here’s how it works in those cases:
- A player may participate in the full-contact practice on Friday, thus satisfying the physical requirement for stage 5 of the concussion protocol.
- After that practice, the player still needs to be evaluated and cleared by the Independent Neurological Consultant (INC).
- If the player is not cleared by the INC immediately after the Friday practice, they could still undergo further evaluation and be cleared on Saturday following a reassessment.
In summary, the clearance can technically happen on Saturday, but the player must have completed a full-contact practice (stage 5) by Friday to be eligible to play on Sunday.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
sounds like the answer is yes. If he practices in full Friday they can clear him Saturday. Which is exactly what I said.
Lot of words from ChatGPT just to say “you’re correct”.
Also he’s been said to be day to day. Coach said he’s improving.
Chaka
Footballguy
Chaos34
Footballguy
sounds like the answer is yes. If he practices in full Friday they can clear him Saturday. Which is exactly what I said.
Lot of words from ChatGPT just to say “you’re correct”.
Also he’s been said to be day to day. Coach said he’s improving.
Yeah but you said it was two steps when it's one stage. Also stage 4 is limited practice tomorrow, which was my original comment today. Just trying to clear the fog of how the protocol works. No limited practice tomorrow, no play on Sunday.
Also "doing better" doesn't sound great to me. Limited today would have been nice to hear. It's not clear if he's completed stage 3.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
That’s a bit semantical. One step is practicing full and the other step is being cleared by the neurologist. That’s two steps which can happen on Friday and Saturday.
sounds like the answer is yes. If he practices in full Friday they can clear him Saturday. Which is exactly what I said.
Lot of words from ChatGPT just to say “you’re correct”.
Also he’s been said to be day to day. Coach said he’s improving.
Yeah but you said it was two steps when it's one stage. Also stage 4 is limited practice tomorrow, which was my original comment today. Just trying to clear the fog of how the protocol works. No limited practice tomorrow, no play on Sunday.
Also "doing better" doesn't sound great to me. Limited today would have been nice to hear. It's not clear if he's completed stage 3.
Regardless, I’m pretty optimistic. He’s going to play. He was doing side work today and I expect him to practice either limited or full tomorrow.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I’m not sure why that correlation would be made. If he’s running or doing any sort of work, that’s a positive step.
Jacob's Ladder
Footballguy
I'm sorry for what your daughter had to go through, concussions are scary and no joke.
To your comment that the NFL isn't doing anything wrong and that their protocol is the best they can currently do is BS.
Let me ask you a few questions, some based on my background, some on common sense.
1. If the guardian cap truly decreases brain injury, why aren't they required on Sundays?
2. Are players required to have brain scans after any reported or suspected brain injury?
3. Why are NFL players allowed to return to play in 1-2 weeks after a brain injury and/or being knocked fully unconscious, when many athletic commissions require fighters who have been knocked out be put on medical suspension. In most cases, these fighters are not allowed to fight again for 30-90 days depending on the promotion and sanctioning body. Combat sports are much more conservative in how they handle concussions, unconscious athletes than the NFL is. That much is fact.
Those are just a few questions, but point being, the NFL is most certainly not being conservative in any of this. They are not doing the best they can. They are not acting in the athletes' best interest. In many cases, these decisions need to be taken out of the athletes control as is done in combat sports. Maybe they should? Problem is, this would hurt the product. The NFL is in CYA mode, and I would argue they are doing the minimum necessary to impact public perception and potential litigation, vs the maximum they could be doing.
Chaos34
Footballguy
That’s a bit semantical. One step is practicing full and the other step is being cleared by the neurologist. That’s two steps which can happen on Friday and Saturday.
sounds like the answer is yes. If he practices in full Friday they can clear him Saturday. Which is exactly what I said.
Lot of words from ChatGPT just to say “you’re correct”.
Also he’s been said to be day to day. Coach said he’s improving.
Yeah but you said it was two steps when it's one stage. Also stage 4 is limited practice tomorrow, which was my original comment today. Just trying to clear the fog of how the protocol works. No limited practice tomorrow, no play on Sunday.
Also "doing better" doesn't sound great to me. Limited today would have been nice to hear. It's not clear if he's completed stage 3.
Regardless, I’m pretty optimistic. He’s going to play. He was doing side work today and I expect him to practice either limited or full tomorrow.
I know. Just trying to be clear on how the protocol works. We've actually agreed (technically) from our first posts today. I'm just being a stickler for the nfl terms, semantic or not. So to do it again... he cannot practice full tomorrow. No reason to suggest he might. Only limited. That's stage 4 if he's cleared stage 3 today, which is possible but unknown atm. He needs that limited practice tomorrow to get to stage 5 by Friday, which he needs to play on Sunday. So limited tomorrow or not playing Sunday.
Chaka
Footballguy
??? He gave 100% of the production against the Seahawks.
ETA: OMG Maybe Daniel Jones is <gasp>becoming a good quarterback</gasp>!
McBokonon
Footballguy
It is, but his concussion happened on a Thursday so there’s no denying this is slower going than the average concussion. I’m working under the assumption he’s missing one more game, personally. Getting hit with byes so will have Tolbert slotted unless/until I hear something 100% definitive.
You must find a balance just like with anything. If the NFL really cared solely about the players well being this game would stop being played. So in that context you are correct that the NFL is not doing the best that they can. Brain injuries are not simple. Players understand the risks. Players fudge their baselines to make it easier for themselves to get back on the field. This is not only on the NFL. To answer your questions:
1. Do we know those caps work? They may, they may not, I am sure there is some player pushback on these so the NFL has given the options to the player. They aren't preventing them from being used so the player's themselves can decide what they want. Seems like a good way to go.
2. I have no idea but based on your comment I would assume not. I have no idea if this would really change anything other than having additional information for study purposes.
3. Because nobody knows how these things effect the individual and the players want to get back to playing. There is not one size fits all solution here. These are unique injuries and the NFL has made it so you have to go symptom free to start the road back to getting on the field. That "symptom free" timeline is different for each player. Doctor's don't even have a time line because they don't know. So that seems like a good way to proceed. Players can always step back and take longer if they don't feel right. The only 100% safe solution is to not play the game.
Bottom line between our viewpoints is I believe the responsibility falls mostly on the players as they know their body best. The understand the risks and are making a decision based on what they want. The NFL's job is to present information and guidelines based on expert recommendations. I think they are doing this. It's not a broken bone. It's a vague injury that treats everyone differently. There is no set timetable so trying to force a set timetable isn't really feasible. I believe you think there should just be a blanket time line for everyone that you must sit out X days. It would work but I don't think it's necessary because everyone is different. Gone are the days of the NFL hiding things (for the most part). Players know the risks and make enough money they can walk away in many cases. I think the burden falls on both the players and NFL....not just the NFL.
MrSoup
Footballguy
Combat sports aren’t a team sport with a schedule and they’re also much more violent.
Jacob's Ladder
Footballguy
Boxing maybe, but it's close and I would argue the complete opposite of MMA. And WTH does the NFL being a team sport have to do with anything? Are brain injuries lessened because you have a team with you? By saying MMA is much more violent than the NFL is just showing your ignorance of the sport. MMA fighters take much less of a pounding than boxers and many NFL players.
Back to the point. Fighter in his first pro fight gets knocked out. One punch, first 30 seconds. He's getting brain scans and being put on medical suspension. He's missing a month at a minimum, likely much more. End of story. Combat sports take this much more seriously than the NFL, and the NFL IS combat sport whether anyone cares to admit it or not. They aren't playing patty cake out there.
