WR Marvin Harrison Jr., ARZ (1 Viewer)

[pinkstapler]

Your post was vague on his criticisms of Harrison which were “catch point and tracking”

Vague? That’s actually extremely specific.

Those are Waldman’s 2 clearly articulated criticisms (he also suggested that MH Sr also suffered from these issues, but had uncanny knack for overcoming them).

Buy hey, if you think Matt is the man, then by all means, follow his advice.

I believe he’s a good analyst, and often catches things on film that other analysts don’t, but I don’t know if I “think Matt is the man”.

Just sharing his criticism of MH2’s game. Seemed like it added something to the topic. Not sure why you’re trying to make this personal. It’s not about me at all - it’s about MH2, and one FBG analyst’s observations.

it is obviously a very personal issue with him. voice shaming as part of the reasoning to stop reading his analysis?

I always say Waldman sounds like a more intelligent Jeremy Piven. Take that as you like, but it is intended neither positive or negative, just my way of trying to explain how his voice sounds to me.

to get it back to the topic, I am down on MH2 because of his price point. same as last year. his 1st year was OK, but not for the cost. his cost hasn't dropped enough for me to consider him in any format. Hoping he turns it on this year to get his cost to make more sense to me.

At the 3-4 turn you're getting a WR who has the easiest path to 280 fantasy points (in my opinion).

- Blue Chip Prospect w/ high draft capital
- Not much for target competition
- Capable QB?

If McBride gets his 150 targets and Harrison gets 160 there are still 220-ish targets to go around. It seems very possible. 280 fantasy points puts him in range for a top 6 WR finish and you're getting him pick 30-40?

He could crack the top 10 and maybe top 5. We arent still drafting low floor high ceiling guys?

If Arizona could get Kyler on some designed bootlegs toward Harrison's side, which it sounds like they agree they need to target/scheme Harrison more... could be a big payout.

All of this is possible.

It’s also possible that Kyler continues to focus his development on call of duty rather than on improving his QB play.

If he continues to be a 1-look and run QB, that’ll hurt all the receivers on the Cards.

If it was just MH2’s floor/ceiling I was concerned about I could bite my tongue and take him. But I’m not very high on Murray. Maybe that’s a me issue, and you’re absolutely right that MH2 is a low floor/high ceiling play.

My concern is that often the low floor high ceiling types come a bit cheaper than 36th overall.

He could definitely pay off at that price. I’m not dismissing that potential at all.

I'm with you on this one. Pretty much same points I made on both MHJ and Kyler a few months ago. I think they both have some red flags, which unfortunately basically double up MHJs flags. Least Murray can earn his ADP with his legs. Also, will just add in, Harmon had a lot of similar notes on MHJ about being weak at the catch point and that a lot of his success in college came from QBs and usage which are almost opposite of what we saw from Murray and Arizona's offense last year.

For the rest of the board in the convo though, on the MHJ in range for "a top 6 WR finish"; when was the last time this offense and this QB made a top 6WR? Or even a top 12WR? Genuine question as I don't know, but I feel like it's extremely bold to make that projection if it's something we have a clear history of not happening. Especially after last season as firm NFL level evidence for MHJ specifically, and the fact just about nothing (good) has really changed for this situation from last season. I can understand the hype some had on him last year more, since it was all still unknown. He could have had a Nabors season and I'm sure many would not have been surprised. But he didn't. So why magically this year?

This range of the draft for redraft leagues has come up in a few threads now the past couple weeks; and I still maintain I don't hate MHJs ADP as there aren't many WRs in that range I'd confidently move ahead of him. But taking a step back, I think it's more that I just don't like ANY WRs in that range. I think there is a steep drop off after the first 2/2.5 rounds at the position, and a pretty large flat tier for almost two rounds after it. So why take MHJ at ~34, when I feel just about as confident taking Worthy at 56, Pickens at 60, or even Tet at 63? Late 3rd/early 4th seems like the time to pivot to grab a T1 TE, take your first RB in a 0RB strat, or even snag a T1 QB who might have fallen. Just MHO tho... YMMV.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Your post was vague on his criticisms of Harrison which were “catch point and tracking”

Vague? That’s actually extremely specific.

Those are Waldman’s 2 clearly articulated criticisms (he also suggested that MH Sr also suffered from these issues, but had uncanny knack for overcoming them).

Buy hey, if you think Matt is the man, then by all means, follow his advice.

I believe he’s a good analyst, and often catches things on film that other analysts don’t, but I don’t know if I “think Matt is the man”.

Just sharing his criticism of MH2’s game. Seemed like it added something to the topic. Not sure why you’re trying to make this personal. It’s not about me at all - it’s about MH2, and one FBG analyst’s observations.

it is obviously a very personal issue with him. voice shaming as part of the reasoning to stop reading his analysis?

I always say Waldman sounds like a more intelligent Jeremy Piven. Take that as you like, but it is intended neither positive or negative, just my way of trying to explain how his voice sounds to me.

to get it back to the topic, I am down on MH2 because of his price point. same as last year. his 1st year was OK, but not for the cost. his cost hasn't dropped enough for me to consider him in any format. Hoping he turns it on this year to get his cost to make more sense to me.

At the 3-4 turn you're getting a WR who has the easiest path to 280 fantasy points (in my opinion).

- Blue Chip Prospect w/ high draft capital
- Not much for target competition
- Capable QB?

If McBride gets his 150 targets and Harrison gets 160 there are still 220-ish targets to go around. It seems very possible. 280 fantasy points puts him in range for a top 6 WR finish and you're getting him pick 30-40?

He could crack the top 10 and maybe top 5. We arent still drafting low floor high ceiling guys?

If Arizona could get Kyler on some designed bootlegs toward Harrison's side, which it sounds like they agree they need to target/scheme Harrison more... could be a big payout.

All of this is possible.

It’s also possible that Kyler continues to focus his development on call of duty rather than on improving his QB play.

If he continues to be a 1-look and run QB, that’ll hurt all the receivers on the Cards.

If it was just MH2’s floor/ceiling I was concerned about I could bite my tongue and take him. But I’m not very high on Murray. Maybe that’s a me issue, and you’re absolutely right that MH2 is a low floor/high ceiling play.

My concern is that often the low floor high ceiling types come a bit cheaper than 36th overall.

He could definitely pay off at that price. I’m not dismissing that potential at all.

I'm with you on this one. Pretty much same points I made on both MHJ and Kyler a few months ago. I think they both have some red flags, which unfortunately basically double up MHJs flags. Least Murray can earn his ADP with his legs. Also, will just add in, Harmon had a lot of similar notes on MHJ about being weak at the catch point and that a lot of his success in college came from QBs and usage which are almost opposite of what we saw from Murray and Arizona's offense last year.

For the rest of the board in the convo though, on the MHJ in range for "a top 6 WR finish"; when was the last time this offense and this QB made a top 6WR? Or even a top 12WR? Genuine question as I don't know, but I feel like it's extremely bold to make that projection if it's something we have a clear history of not happening. Especially after last season as firm NFL level evidence for MHJ specifically, and the fact just about nothing (good) has really changed for this situation from last season. I can understand the hype some had on him last year more, since it was all still unknown. He could have had a Nabors season and I'm sure many would not have been surprised. But he didn't. So why magically this year?

This range of the draft for redraft leagues has come up in a few threads now the past couple weeks; and I still maintain I don't hate MHJs ADP as there aren't many WRs in that range I'd confidently move ahead of him. But taking a step back, I think it's more that I just don't like ANY WRs in that range. I think there is a steep drop off after the first 2/2.5 rounds at the position, and a pretty large flat tier for almost two rounds after it. So why take MHJ at ~34, when I feel just about as confident taking Worthy at 56, Pickens at 60, or even Tet at 63? Late 3rd/early 4th seems like the time to pivot to grab a T1 TE, take your first RB in a 0RB strat, or even snag a T1 QB who might have fallen. Just MHO tho... YMMV.

Yeah, the one change that should improve Murray/AZ’s offense is actually the one that in theory hurts MH2 the most. Murray was reportedly hesitant to run as much after his ACL repair. So now Murray is going to… run more?

Devil’s advocate: In theory this could help MH2 if Murray’s rushing extends drives. But in reality this could be worse for MH2 because more running might mean less passing.

The one thing that could change would be Murray force feeding the ball to MH2 instead of McBride, but I’m skeptical that will happen - the comfort zone of dumping off to a massive TE on high % plays is just so much different than targeting MH2 in the intermediate & deep areas of the field.

Maybe Murray takes a step forward this year. Maybe he becomes more of a pocket passer and less inclined to take off running after 1 read. I remain skeptical of that until I see it. I’ve never been a big fan of Murray’s real life NFL game. The best thing for MH2 might be a new QB.

As for his draft range, you’re likely choosing between Ladd, Garrett Wilson, and MH2. Maybe London? I have MH2 a distant 4th on that list, and would probably rather have ABJ as well.

 

[Chaka]

Your post was vague on his criticisms of Harrison which were “catch point and tracking”

Vague? That’s actually extremely specific.

Those are Waldman’s 2 clearly articulated criticisms (he also suggested that MH Sr also suffered from these issues, but had uncanny knack for overcoming them).

Buy hey, if you think Matt is the man, then by all means, follow his advice.

I believe he’s a good analyst, and often catches things on film that other analysts don’t, but I don’t know if I “think Matt is the man”.

Just sharing his criticism of MH2’s game. Seemed like it added something to the topic. Not sure why you’re trying to make this personal. It’s not about me at all - it’s about MH2, and one FBG analyst’s observations.

it is obviously a very personal issue with him. voice shaming as part of the reasoning to stop reading his analysis?

I always say Waldman sounds like a more intelligent Jeremy Piven. Take that as you like, but it is intended neither positive or negative, just my way of trying to explain how his voice sounds to me.

to get it back to the topic, I am down on MH2 because of his price point. same as last year. his 1st year was OK, but not for the cost. his cost hasn't dropped enough for me to consider him in any format. Hoping he turns it on this year to get his cost to make more sense to me.

At the 3-4 turn you're getting a WR who has the easiest path to 280 fantasy points (in my opinion).

- Blue Chip Prospect w/ high draft capital
- Not much for target competition
- Capable QB?

If McBride gets his 150 targets and Harrison gets 160 there are still 220-ish targets to go around. It seems very possible. 280 fantasy points puts him in range for a top 6 WR finish and you're getting him pick 30-40?

He could crack the top 10 and maybe top 5. We arent still drafting low floor high ceiling guys?

If Arizona could get Kyler on some designed bootlegs toward Harrison's side, which it sounds like they agree they need to target/scheme Harrison more... could be a big payout.

All of this is possible.

It’s also possible that Kyler continues to focus his development on call of duty rather than on improving his QB play.

If he continues to be a 1-look and run QB, that’ll hurt all the receivers on the Cards.

If it was just MH2’s floor/ceiling I was concerned about I could bite my tongue and take him. But I’m not very high on Murray. Maybe that’s a me issue, and you’re absolutely right that MH2 is a low floor/high ceiling play.

My concern is that often the low floor high ceiling types come a bit cheaper than 36th overall.

He could definitely pay off at that price. I’m not dismissing that potential at all.

I side with you here. Someone will take him and maybe hit the jackpot but I don't see much changing with Kyler. I honestly think he is entering his last seasons with Az. He can't see the field. He has no comfort in the pocket and honestly makes a lot of bone head decisions. I don't see that changing and i think that really hurts MHJ

You're probably right the Cardinals and Kyler should move on from each other. The problem is, if you're the Cardinals who do you replace Kyler with?

The Raiders were probably right to move on from Carr but it was stupid of them not to have the succession plan locked in before letting him go. The 2024 season was over for them in August and that sucked for the fans.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

You're probably right the Cardinals and Kyler should move on from each other. The problem is, if you're the Cardinals who do you replace Kyler with?

Kinda challenging after they gave him a 5 year contract with just shy of $160,000,000 guaranteed. He’s a FA in 2029.

2028 is a $10M club option, so theoretically they could move on then, but that’s still 3 years away.

 

[Chaka]

For the rest of the board in the convo though, on the MHJ in range for "a top 6 WR finish"; when was the last time this offense and this QB made a top 6WR? Or even a top 12WR? Genuine question as I don't know, but I feel like it's extremely bold to make that projection if it's something we have a clear history of not happening.

DeAndre Hopkins went 115-1,407-6 on 160 targets in 2020 with Murray. Not sure if it was top 6 but it was certainly a WR1 performance.

Not a WR but McBride had a big year, everywhere but the end zone, last year too.

Unfortunately Murray hasn't been the kind of QB that elevates two targets in a single season. Then again he really hasn't had two targets with the potential of McBride & MHJ (allegedly).

 

[Chaka]

You're probably right the Cardinals and Kyler should move on from each other. The problem is, if you're the Cardinals who do you replace Kyler with?

Kinda challenging after they gave him a 5 year contract with just shy of $160,000,000 guaranteed. He’s a FA in 2029.

2028 is a $10M club option, so theoretically the could move on then, but that’s still 3 years away.

Whelp, I guess the answer is: They don't.

And that makes sense too. Murray may not be a single handed wrecking crew like Allen, Mahomes, Lamar etc but he's talented enough to take a team all the way. If he ever decides to truly dedicate himself to his craft.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

If he ever decides to truly dedicate himself to his craft.

As long as that “craft” is “NFL Football” and not “e-gaming”, sure.

 

[Chaka]

If he ever decides to truly dedicate himself to his craft.

As long as that “craft” is “NFL Football” and not “e-gaming”, sure.

Gaming is a lot easier on the knees.

 

[darksideofoz]

If he ever decides to truly dedicate himself to his craft.

As long as that “craft” is “NFL Football” and not “e-gaming”, sure.

Gaming is a lot easier on the knees.

at my age it isn't. I often have to stand up for hours playing as my eyes are in a "transition" phase so I can see everything clearly on the TV. the phase between youthful exceptional eyesight, and grumpy and slowly and begrudgingly admitting I need to do something about the gradual decline.

 

[Chaka]

If he ever decides to truly dedicate himself to his craft.

As long as that “craft” is “NFL Football” and not “e-gaming”, sure.

Gaming is a lot easier on the knees.

at my age it isn't. I often have to stand up for hours playing as my eyes are in a "transition" phase so I can see everything clearly on the TV. the phase between youthful exceptional eyesight, and grumpy and slowly and begrudgingly admitting I need to do something about the gradual decline.

Sometimes I take a gummy and trip out on the "floaties" in my right eye. One of them looks like a really long worm. I named him RFK.

 

[TVT 0 N S T A]

Your post was vague on his criticisms of Harrison which were “catch point and tracking”

Vague? That’s actually extremely specific.

Those are Waldman’s 2 clearly articulated criticisms (he also suggested that MH Sr also suffered from these issues, but had uncanny knack for overcoming them).

Buy hey, if you think Matt is the man, then by all means, follow his advice.

I believe he’s a good analyst, and often catches things on film that other analysts don’t, but I don’t know if I “think Matt is the man”.

Just sharing his criticism of MH2’s game. Seemed like it added something to the topic. Not sure why you’re trying to make this personal. It’s not about me at all - it’s about MH2, and one FBG analyst’s observations.

it is obviously a very personal issue with him. voice shaming as part of the reasoning to stop reading his analysis?

I always say Waldman sounds like a more intelligent Jeremy Piven. Take that as you like, but it is intended neither positive or negative, just my way of trying to explain how his voice sounds to me.

to get it back to the topic, I am down on MH2 because of his price point. same as last year. his 1st year was OK, but not for the cost. his cost hasn't dropped enough for me to consider him in any format. Hoping he turns it on this year to get his cost to make more sense to me.

At the 3-4 turn you're getting a WR who has the easiest path to 280 fantasy points (in my opinion).

- Blue Chip Prospect w/ high draft capital
- Not much for target competition
- Capable QB?

If McBride gets his 150 targets and Harrison gets 160 there are still 220-ish targets to go around. It seems very possible. 280 fantasy points puts him in range for a top 6 WR finish and you're getting him pick 30-40?

He could crack the top 10 and maybe top 5. We arent still drafting low floor high ceiling guys?

If Arizona could get Kyler on some designed bootlegs toward Harrison's side, which it sounds like they agree they need to target/scheme Harrison more... could be a big payout.

All of this is possible.

It’s also possible that Kyler continues to focus his development on call of duty rather than on improving his QB play.

If he continues to be a 1-look and run QB, that’ll hurt all the receivers on the Cards.

If it was just MH2’s floor/ceiling I was concerned about I could bite my tongue and take him. But I’m not very high on Murray. Maybe that’s a me issue, and you’re absolutely right that MH2 is a low floor/high ceiling play.

My concern is that often the low floor high ceiling types come a bit cheaper than 36th overall.

He could definitely pay off at that price. I’m not dismissing that potential at all.

I'm with you on this one. Pretty much same points I made on both MHJ and Kyler a few months ago. I think they both have some red flags, which unfortunately basically double up MHJs flags. Least Murray can earn his ADP with his legs. Also, will just add in, Harmon had a lot of similar notes on MHJ about being weak at the catch point and that a lot of his success in college came from QBs and usage which are almost opposite of what we saw from Murray and Arizona's offense last year.

For the rest of the board in the convo though, on the MHJ in range for "a top 6 WR finish"; when was the last time this offense and this QB made a top 6WR? Or even a top 12WR? Genuine question as I don't know, but I feel like it's extremely bold to make that projection if it's something we have a clear history of not happening. Especially after last season as firm NFL level evidence for MHJ specifically, and the fact just about nothing (good) has really changed for this situation from last season. I can understand the hype some had on him last year more, since it was all still unknown. He could have had a Nabors season and I'm sure many would not have been surprised. But he didn't. So why magically this year?

This range of the draft for redraft leagues has come up in a few threads now the past couple weeks; and I still maintain I don't hate MHJs ADP as there aren't many WRs in that range I'd confidently move ahead of him. But taking a step back, I think it's more that I just don't like ANY WRs in that range. I think there is a steep drop off after the first 2/2.5 rounds at the position, and a pretty large flat tier for almost two rounds after it. So why take MHJ at ~34, when I feel just about as confident taking Worthy at 56, Pickens at 60, or even Tet at 63? Late 3rd/early 4th seems like the time to pivot to grab a T1 TE, take your first RB in a 0RB strat, or even snag a T1 QB who might have fallen. Just MHO tho... YMMV.

Yeah, you are right to question that top 6 finish and I wasn't really planting a flag that he will or he won't but I was just opening up to the idea of it being possible.

The truth is - Kyler is slated to throw 500+ times and whether McBride is 150, 160 or 170 of those targets... it would be nothing for MHJr to get 150 to 160 of those targets, given the offense actually runs through their first round WR pick. He caught 53% of his targets - that could take a bump up too. I am just stating he is the best WR they have and they probably won't be handedly winning a lot of games... If his targets increase to 160 and he stays at 53% catch rate - that is 85 catches if average yards per catch stay the same at 14.3 - 1,222 yards.

The same could be said about Daniel Jones producing a top 10 WR before Nabers showed up. Dabol is an offensive mind and knew what he had with Nabers but maybe Gannon is a little slower to the realization that the offense should run through MHJr. Not here to argue, but I believe Harrison has immense upside. The rookie fever has gotten so bad in fantasy football people want to write guys off after a year, but I think there is more. Murray needs to run more. He needs to be out on a bootleg to see the field, because he is not tall.

I was just letting everyone know, I am going to keep him for a decent amount of Auction $ and pair him with Ladd McConkey (as my other keeper for a small amount of money) and I think I will have a decent 1/2 punch and I expect his floor to be around 240-250 points on the season but I don't think 96 catches for 1400 yards and 7 touchdowns is farfetched given the pedigree.

The Cardinals being a dumpster fire actually works in MHJr's favor - garbage yards are still yards.

 

[Gruden's Keyboard]

Let's face it, this Ari offense hasn't been the same since losing Rondale Moore.

 

[efactor]

You're probably right the Cardinals and Kyler should move on from each other. The problem is, if you're the Cardinals who do you replace Kyler with?

Kinda challenging after they gave him a 5 year contract with just shy of $160,000,000 guaranteed. He’s a FA in 2029.

2028 is a $10M club option, so theoretically they could move on then, but that’s still 3 years away.

Yeah, that was not a genius move on the Cards part. But neither was taking Kyler over Bosa

 

[pinkstapler]

Your post was vague on his criticisms of Harrison which were “catch point and tracking”

Vague? That’s actually extremely specific.

Those are Waldman’s 2 clearly articulated criticisms (he also suggested that MH Sr also suffered from these issues, but had uncanny knack for overcoming them).

Buy hey, if you think Matt is the man, then by all means, follow his advice.

I believe he’s a good analyst, and often catches things on film that other analysts don’t, but I don’t know if I “think Matt is the man”.

Just sharing his criticism of MH2’s game. Seemed like it added something to the topic. Not sure why you’re trying to make this personal. It’s not about me at all - it’s about MH2, and one FBG analyst’s observations.

it is obviously a very personal issue with him. voice shaming as part of the reasoning to stop reading his analysis?

I always say Waldman sounds like a more intelligent Jeremy Piven. Take that as you like, but it is intended neither positive or negative, just my way of trying to explain how his voice sounds to me.

to get it back to the topic, I am down on MH2 because of his price point. same as last year. his 1st year was OK, but not for the cost. his cost hasn't dropped enough for me to consider him in any format. Hoping he turns it on this year to get his cost to make more sense to me.

At the 3-4 turn you're getting a WR who has the easiest path to 280 fantasy points (in my opinion).

- Blue Chip Prospect w/ high draft capital
- Not much for target competition
- Capable QB?

If McBride gets his 150 targets and Harrison gets 160 there are still 220-ish targets to go around. It seems very possible. 280 fantasy points puts him in range for a top 6 WR finish and you're getting him pick 30-40?

He could crack the top 10 and maybe top 5. We arent still drafting low floor high ceiling guys?

If Arizona could get Kyler on some designed bootlegs toward Harrison's side, which it sounds like they agree they need to target/scheme Harrison more... could be a big payout.

All of this is possible.

It’s also possible that Kyler continues to focus his development on call of duty rather than on improving his QB play.

If he continues to be a 1-look and run QB, that’ll hurt all the receivers on the Cards.

If it was just MH2’s floor/ceiling I was concerned about I could bite my tongue and take him. But I’m not very high on Murray. Maybe that’s a me issue, and you’re absolutely right that MH2 is a low floor/high ceiling play.

My concern is that often the low floor high ceiling types come a bit cheaper than 36th overall.

He could definitely pay off at that price. I’m not dismissing that potential at all.

I'm with you on this one. Pretty much same points I made on both MHJ and Kyler a few months ago. I think they both have some red flags, which unfortunately basically double up MHJs flags. Least Murray can earn his ADP with his legs. Also, will just add in, Harmon had a lot of similar notes on MHJ about being weak at the catch point and that a lot of his success in college came from QBs and usage which are almost opposite of what we saw from Murray and Arizona's offense last year.

For the rest of the board in the convo though, on the MHJ in range for "a top 6 WR finish"; when was the last time this offense and this QB made a top 6WR? Or even a top 12WR? Genuine question as I don't know, but I feel like it's extremely bold to make that projection if it's something we have a clear history of not happening. Especially after last season as firm NFL level evidence for MHJ specifically, and the fact just about nothing (good) has really changed for this situation from last season. I can understand the hype some had on him last year more, since it was all still unknown. He could have had a Nabors season and I'm sure many would not have been surprised. But he didn't. So why magically this year?

This range of the draft for redraft leagues has come up in a few threads now the past couple weeks; and I still maintain I don't hate MHJs ADP as there aren't many WRs in that range I'd confidently move ahead of him. But taking a step back, I think it's more that I just don't like ANY WRs in that range. I think there is a steep drop off after the first 2/2.5 rounds at the position, and a pretty large flat tier for almost two rounds after it. So why take MHJ at ~34, when I feel just about as confident taking Worthy at 56, Pickens at 60, or even Tet at 63? Late 3rd/early 4th seems like the time to pivot to grab a T1 TE, take your first RB in a 0RB strat, or even snag a T1 QB who might have fallen. Just MHO tho... YMMV.

Yeah, you are right to question that top 6 finish and I wasn't really planting a flag that he will or he won't but I was just opening up to the idea of it being possible.

The truth is - Kyler is slated to throw 500+ times and whether McBride is 150, 160 or 170 of those targets... it would be nothing for MHJr to get 150 to 160 of those targets, given the offense actually runs through their first round WR pick. He caught 53% of his targets - that could take a bump up too. I am just stating he is the best WR they have and they probably won't be handedly winning a lot of games... If his targets increase to 160 and he stays at 53% catch rate - that is 85 catches if average yards per catch stay the same at 14.3 - 1,222 yards.

The same could be said about Daniel Jones producing a top 10 WR before Nabers showed up. Dabol is an offensive mind and knew what he had with Nabers but maybe Gannon is a little slower to the realization that the offense should run through MHJr. Not here to argue, but I believe Harrison has immense upside. The rookie fever has gotten so bad in fantasy football people want to write guys off after a year, but I think there is more. Murray needs to run more. He needs to be out on a bootleg to see the field, because he is not tall.

I was just letting everyone know, I am going to keep him for a decent amount of Auction $ and pair him with Ladd McConkey (as my other keeper for a small amount of money) and I think I will have a decent 1/2 punch and I expect his floor to be around 240-250 points on the season but I don't think 96 catches for 1400 yards and 7 touchdowns is farfetched given the pedigree.

The Cardinals being a dumpster fire actually works in MHJr's favor - garbage yards are still yards.

Solid case from you for sure. I think where I fall off is honestly "Dabol is an offensive mind and knew what he had with Nabers but maybe Gannon is a little slower to the realization that the offense should run through MHJr". At least much, much more than anything directly related to MHJ directly. I might not be as high on his upside as you, but I'd never claim to be low on him either (except last year at his redraft ADP but that was always wild haha).

But I think for your projections to come through it's very reliant upon some drastic offensive philosophy changes. Not even just getting him more targets, but getting him BETTER targets. As well as leaning into his strengths more with how he's aligned in formations, and getting him off the line easier/better without having to struggle through press as much. It's a pisser because I definitely believe in a different offense and a more WR friendly QB, he could be a WR1 like you said. I'm just not confident in Murray changing or the offense. If they had even just drafted/signed a big body X I could sell myself it was with the intention of not running Harrison both outside on 80% of his routes and on the line for 80% of his routes yet again, but they didn't. He gets practically no layup routes and balls; no screens/slants/drags.

Spinning back to Chaka, props for pointing it out, pretty much the last WR1 this team really put up was DHop. And it almost feels like they are using MHJ in that way. But he's not that guy. He's not a big physical guy, he doesn't attack at the reception point and dominate in contested catches, he's not even a burner who will take the top off and break coverage. He's a route technician with great agility and change of direction skills, a nose for soft spots in zones, and is pretty good in the open field with the ball in his hands. It all screams for a McVay/Shannahan/Ben Johnson style offense where WRs are moving all over the formation, going in presnap motion, and working towards getting receivers clean looks. And it helps when that offense is helmed by a QB who can both look off defenders and throw a guy open. Neither are Murrays strong suits. Again, hopefully they move towards that kind of usage for him. They just haven't shown us even a small bit of evidence that's what they will do.

 

[Faust]

Cardinals' Marvin Harrison Jr. wants to run his 'own race,' stop fixating on receivers from '24 draft class

 

[Faust]

Cards' Marvin Harrison Jr. 'ready to showcase' offseason gains

 

[Ilov80s]

For the rest of the board in the convo though, on the MHJ in range for "a top 6 WR finish"; when was the last time this offense and this QB made a top 6WR? Or even a top 12WR? Genuine question as I don't know, but I feel like it's extremely bold to make that projection if it's something we have a clear history of not happening.

DeAndre Hopkins went 115-1,407-6 on 160 targets in 2020 with Murray. Not sure if it was top 6 but it was certainly a WR1 performance.

Not a WR but McBride had a big year, everywhere but the end zone, last year too.

Unfortunately Murray hasn't been the kind of QB that elevates two targets in a single season. Then again he really hasn't had two targets with the potential of McBride & MHJ (allegedly).

They just need to use MJH in the way they used Nuk. The problem with MJH it seems from last year was they just sent Harrison on go route after go route. They treated him like he was a Christian Watson and they just sent him down field over and over and over. He needs play calling that gives him more diverse routes to run and gets him some easy targets.