WR Marvin Harrison Jr., ARZ (2 Viewers)

[Ministry of Pain]

Disappointing rookie campaign after so much hype last year post-Draft, way overvalued in Redraft'24
I assume the hype train is coming for '25

 

[menobrown]

I assume the hype train is coming for '25

Not yet, maybe one of those off-season puff pieces will make him pick up a little steam but going in the WR 17-18 range in late third on average is what I'm seeing. That's still relatively high, but a drop of about 1.5 rounds from where he was going last year.

 

[JohnnyU]

Disappointing rookie campaign after so much hype last year post-Draft, way overvalued in Redraft'24
I assume the hype train is coming for '25

They need to quit trying to make him a deep threat only. They need to get the ball to him more on medium to shorter routes and sprinkle in the deep routes. I bet that would quickly showcase his talents better.

 

[(HULK)]

Considering tiering down from Jefferson to Harrison, if I can pick up a couple early picks. Guy with Harrison has 1.02 and 1.03. I don't think I'll be able to get both picks with Harrison unless I give more back.

My team has several studs (Lamar, Chase, Jefferson, Saquon)... but my depth is pretty crud. I spent last season constantly wheeling and dealing to close gaps caused by injury. I think a move like that might be very good for my team in the long run, but I'm also right in the middle of my contention window, so I'm not 100% sure it's the correct move. Would love thoughts/feedback. Thanks.

Is the Harrison owner a contender? You might be able to get him and one of the firsts if you include something decent. As the MH owner in one league, I wouldn’t give a first with him but I’m rebuilding.

He finished 10th place last season, but honestly he just needs some RBs to be a full on contender.

Do you have a RB to offer with JJ for Harrison and both firsts?

I could send Conner/Benson.

 

[efactor]

Disappointing rookie campaign after so much hype last year post-Draft, way overvalued in Redraft'24
I assume the hype train is coming for '25

They need to quit trying to make him a deep threat only. They need to get the ball to him more on medium to shorter routes and sprinkle in the deep routes. I bet that would quickly showcase his talents better.

Agree and I think they will in 2025. Kyler is dumb but hopefully not so dumb that an off season for the coaching staff to beat it into his head that peppering Harrison with targets will be a winning strategy will be sufficient.

 

[travdogg]

Disappointing rookie campaign after so much hype last year post-Draft, way overvalued in Redraft'24
I assume the hype train is coming for '25

Victim of expectations. Most years 885-8 (23% of the teams receiving yards, 38% of the receiving TDs) would be considered a solid start for a rookie WR. Didn't help that Nabers, Thomas, and McConkey all looked like #1s. I'm confident Harrison will get there, and I do wonder if he'll be slightly undervalued in a post-hype sleeper sort of way.

 

[osubuckeyeman]

He had a pretty good rookie season. I'm a bit older, though, and I remember when it took a wide receiver three years to break out. It matters where you land and what offense you play in.

People also worried about JSN after his rookie season, but that seemed to be due to opportunity. DK and Lockett soaked up targets, and JSN was not a real option for the offense.

Harrison did well but will do better with even more opportunities. At this point, the most important thing for me is understanding he has the tools to become a #1WR.

I can not see a fantasy manager giving up on him anytime soon. At this point, a discounted deal does not work. You are still paying a significant amount for his services in any format.

 

[menobrown]

There are a lot of excuses/reasons for his performance ranging from how he was utilized, being a rookie and tempering expectations and how those expectations were just to high to begin with.

I view those as all valid.

But it's hard to totally dismiss the lack of separation, that was alarmingly bad.

 

[ffmail4me]

There are a lot of excuses/reasons for his performance ranging from how he was utilized, being a rookie and tempering expectations and how those expectations were just to high to begin with.

I view those as all valid.

But it's hard to totally dismiss the lack of separation, that was alarmingly bad.

Separation is great, but it's not the end all. I know this past year they said Luke McCaffrey had as good as separation as any WR running routes, yet he barely did anything. I think Harrison's build, route running, hands, and work ethic is what is going to propel him to a very long and successful career like his daddy had.

 

[menobrown]

There are a lot of excuses/reasons for his performance ranging from how he was utilized, being a rookie and tempering expectations and how those expectations were just to high to begin with.

I view those as all valid.

But it's hard to totally dismiss the lack of separation, that was alarmingly bad.

Separation is great, but it's not the end all. I know this past year they said Luke McCaffrey had as good as separation as any WR running routes, yet he barely did anything. I think Harrison's build, route running, hands, and work ethic is what is going to propel him to a very long and successful career like his daddy had.

There is no such thing as one item being all encompassing. But there is nothing more important to me then being able to actually get open.

If you can't separate well you better be really good at contested catches or YAC ability to be able to turn some shorter throws into big gains. Making a career out of downfield catches when you can't get open very well is tough business to do consistently. Marvin ranked 85th in contested catch rate and was one of the worst WR's in the league in YAC per reception.

So if someone tells me they don't put a lot of emphasis on separtion I would tell them why I do and follow that up by asking what does the WR do well to make up for lack of separation, what other elite traits does he bring. Marvin did not actaully show any other elite or really overly good traits last year to make up for not being able to seperate.

IMO Luke McCaffrey example is odd in this context. Could have at least used example of other WR's who don't separate well who are good for fantasy.

Tee Higgins would be the best comp of a player I can find who does really well in fantasy despite not having a ton of seperation or YAC ability. That would have been a better example IMO of how you can succeed without separation. The key to Tee doing a lot better, other then QB, was he excelled in contested catches. Marvin should improve in this department, and hopefully can do a better job of separating, but what he actually was concerned me. He was Keon Colemanesque.

 

[standarsh]

In my PPR league, MHJ finished as the 43rd ranked WR in points per game played. He was near last among WR1s (I think the only team without a WR finishing higher than him was NE) and he was barely above the line where you start to see players not being on fantasy rosters at all.

There's obviously a lot of reasons for that, and not all are MHJ's fault, but we should call it what it was - a bad year from a fantasy perspective.

He certainly showed flashes and there's reason to maybe reach on him a little next year, but even thinking about him in the 15-20 range is probably optimistic. That would put him above guys like JSN, Wilson, McConkey, McLaurin, Addison, London, etc., etc. I'm mildly bullish on MHJ - I certainly don't think he's going to wash out of the league or anything - but if someone else in my league wants to reach for him at 15-20, they can be my guest.

 

[ffmail4me]

I am still very bullish on him breaking out this year but did just move him in one of my 12 team SF PPR Best Ball Dynasty Leagues

Gave: Harrison Jr, 3.5 and 4.5 picks
Got: 1.1 pick

I was loaded at WR in this league and needed RB help. Not sure if that was a slight overpay but happy with the end result

 

[kutta]

In a PPR best ball dynasty league where I am loaded at WR (Jefferson, Harrison, Nabers, Wilson, McLaurin, Aiyuk, Jauan Jennings, Bateman and more) I've offered him in trade to get a good RB and every offer has been rejected. I don't get it, kid has an extremely bright future...I think a lot of people are sleeping on him.

But with that WR corps you decided to offer him up instead of one of the others. Maybe you kind of don’t really believe in him either?

 

[ffmail4me]

In a PPR best ball dynasty league where I am loaded at WR (Jefferson, Harrison, Nabers, Wilson, McLaurin, Aiyuk, Jauan Jennings, Bateman and more) I've offered him in trade to get a good RB and every offer has been rejected. I don't get it, kid has an extremely bright future...I think a lot of people are sleeping on him.

But with that WR corps you decided to offer him up instead of one of the others. Maybe you kind of don’t really believe in him either?

No shame in preferring to move him before moving JJ, Nabers, and Wilson. And my other WRs wouldn’t have gotten it done (Aiyuk, McLaurin, Jennings, etc)

 

[Faust]

Marvin Harrison Jr.: I definitely put on some muscle this offseason

 

[pinkstapler]

Harmon and Koh touched on MHJ in a recent pod and talked on a few things with his rookie year; really pointing out it's a three pronged issue and really all three of the problems play off of eachother. This thread touched on his own issues quite a bit, namely with separation, ability to attack the ball at the catch point, attacking WRs at the break points of routes (especially down the field routes), and the fact he doesn't play super fast (kind of confirms why he may not have tested at the combine).

But much of that can tie back to how the coaching staff used him. In college he not only didn't have many issues with separating, but it was one of his strengths. And he was never some size/speed freak. So why the staff had him play almost all his snaps at X, and had him running as many 9s as they did is beyond me. It definitely contributes to some of the poor separation scores. He also had almost no "easy"/get the ball in his hands routes. He ran few slants, almost no digs, and Harmons sample size had him running only 1 screen. Terrible on the staff tbh.

And then the third issue; one which keeps me low on MHJ moving forward more than anything he's done, or even the coaching staff, and that's Murray (and can sprinkle the o-line in here). Murray does not throw enough between the numbers in the intermediate part of the field; and this is where a technician style WR like MHJ eats. The easiest guess to why is he's too short and doesn't have a line that gives him enough space and time to find guys there knowing it's not as easy for him. Can dig at other things on Murray here, like his penchant for pulling and running, or even just rolling outside and making those throws to the middle of the field that much more dangerous to make. But regardless, it's shown in his passing charts that he just doesn't work that part of the game like other QBs.

So the fact the Cardinals did little to nothing to improve the line, and also didn't add another receiving weapon, especially an X who could allow MHJ to move around the formation more as well as stop wasting him on running 9 clear out routes as much; leaves me feeling not great about his outlook for this year. He still did well for a rookie, and should be able to continue improving parts of his game; but he can't redesign the offensive scheme or make Murray grow 6 inches. Hopefully Arizona can do right for him sooner than later.

 

[Biabreakable]

Harmon and Koh touched on MHJ in a recent pod and talked on a few things with his rookie year; really pointing out it's a three pronged issue and really all three of the problems play off of eachother. This thread touched on his own issues quite a bit, namely with separation, ability to attack the ball at the catch point, attacking WRs at the break points of routes (especially down the field routes), and the fact he doesn't play super fast (kind of confirms why he may not have tested at the combine).

But much of that can tie back to how the coaching staff used him. In college he not only didn't have many issues with separating, but it was one of his strengths. And he was never some size/speed freak. So why the staff had him play almost all his snaps at X, and had him running as many 9s as they did is beyond me. It definitely contributes to some of the poor separation scores. He also had almost no "easy"/get the ball in his hands routes. He ran few slants, almost no digs, and Harmons sample size had him running only 1 screen. Terrible on the staff tbh.

And then the third issue; one which keeps me low on MHJ moving forward more than anything he's done, or even the coaching staff, and that's Murray (and can sprinkle the o-line in here). Murray does not throw enough between the numbers in the intermediate part of the field; and this is where a technician style WR like MHJ eats. The easiest guess to why is he's too short and doesn't have a line that gives him enough space and time to find guys there knowing it's not as easy for him. Can dig at other things on Murray here, like his penchant for pulling and running, or even just rolling outside and making those throws to the middle of the field that much more dangerous to make. But regardless, it's shown in his passing charts that he just doesn't work that part of the game like other QBs.

So the fact the Cardinals did little to nothing to improve the line, and also didn't add another receiving weapon, especially an X who could allow MHJ to move around the formation more as well as stop wasting him on running 9 clear out routes as much; leaves me feeling not great about his outlook for this year. He still did well for a rookie, and should be able to continue improving parts of his game; but he can't redesign the offensive scheme or make Murray grow 6 inches. Hopefully Arizona can do right for him sooner than later.

Murray should be in an offense designed off bootlegs and play action.

Do things to give him clear throwing lanes like Payton did with Brees.

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

Harmon and Koh touched on MHJ in a recent pod and talked on a few things with his rookie year; really pointing out it's a three pronged issue and really all three of the problems play off of eachother. This thread touched on his own issues quite a bit, namely with separation, ability to attack the ball at the catch point, attacking WRs at the break points of routes (especially down the field routes), and the fact he doesn't play super fast (kind of confirms why he may not have tested at the combine).

But much of that can tie back to how the coaching staff used him. In college he not only didn't have many issues with separating, but it was one of his strengths. And he was never some size/speed freak. So why the staff had him play almost all his snaps at X, and had him running as many 9s as they did is beyond me. It definitely contributes to some of the poor separation scores. He also had almost no "easy"/get the ball in his hands routes. He ran few slants, almost no digs, and Harmons sample size had him running only 1 screen. Terrible on the staff tbh.

And then the third issue; one which keeps me low on MHJ moving forward more than anything he's done, or even the coaching staff, and that's Murray (and can sprinkle the o-line in here). Murray does not throw enough between the numbers in the intermediate part of the field; and this is where a technician style WR like MHJ eats. The easiest guess to why is he's too short and doesn't have a line that gives him enough space and time to find guys there knowing it's not as easy for him. Can dig at other things on Murray here, like his penchant for pulling and running, or even just rolling outside and making those throws to the middle of the field that much more dangerous to make. But regardless, it's shown in his passing charts that he just doesn't work that part of the game like other QBs.

So the fact the Cardinals did little to nothing to improve the line, and also didn't add another receiving weapon, especially an X who could allow MHJ to move around the formation more as well as stop wasting him on running 9 clear out routes as much; leaves me feeling not great about his outlook for this year. He still did well for a rookie, and should be able to continue improving parts of his game; but he can't redesign the offensive scheme or make Murray grow 6 inches. Hopefully Arizona can do right for him sooner than later.

Murray should be in an offense designed off bootlegs and play action.

Do things to give him clear throwing lanes like Payton did with Brees.

Except Kyler will do Kyler things and turn the bootleg into an 8 yard rushing gain and (another) torn ACL.

 

[pinkstapler]

Harmon and Koh touched on MHJ in a recent pod and talked on a few things with his rookie year; really pointing out it's a three pronged issue and really all three of the problems play off of eachother. This thread touched on his own issues quite a bit, namely with separation, ability to attack the ball at the catch point, attacking WRs at the break points of routes (especially down the field routes), and the fact he doesn't play super fast (kind of confirms why he may not have tested at the combine).

But much of that can tie back to how the coaching staff used him. In college he not only didn't have many issues with separating, but it was one of his strengths. And he was never some size/speed freak. So why the staff had him play almost all his snaps at X, and had him running as many 9s as they did is beyond me. It definitely contributes to some of the poor separation scores. He also had almost no "easy"/get the ball in his hands routes. He ran few slants, almost no digs, and Harmons sample size had him running only 1 screen. Terrible on the staff tbh.

And then the third issue; one which keeps me low on MHJ moving forward more than anything he's done, or even the coaching staff, and that's Murray (and can sprinkle the o-line in here). Murray does not throw enough between the numbers in the intermediate part of the field; and this is where a technician style WR like MHJ eats. The easiest guess to why is he's too short and doesn't have a line that gives him enough space and time to find guys there knowing it's not as easy for him. Can dig at other things on Murray here, like his penchant for pulling and running, or even just rolling outside and making those throws to the middle of the field that much more dangerous to make. But regardless, it's shown in his passing charts that he just doesn't work that part of the game like other QBs.

So the fact the Cardinals did little to nothing to improve the line, and also didn't add another receiving weapon, especially an X who could allow MHJ to move around the formation more as well as stop wasting him on running 9 clear out routes as much; leaves me feeling not great about his outlook for this year. He still did well for a rookie, and should be able to continue improving parts of his game; but he can't redesign the offensive scheme or make Murray grow 6 inches. Hopefully Arizona can do right for him sooner than later.

Murray should be in an offense designed off bootlegs and play action.

Do things to give him clear throwing lanes like Payton did with Brees.

Except Kyler will do Kyler things and turn the bootleg into an 8 yard rushing gain and (another) torn ACL.

Agree with you both. Even an improved line could help give him a little more cushion and some better vision to the mid field. Saints did very well with that as well to help Brees find success as a shorter guy. But I do think we've seen what Kyler is at this point. Not sure that leopard is changing it's spots.

They have a relatively cheap out on him after the 2026 season. But Kyler feels kinda like Tua or some of these other QBs where it can be hard to walk away. They aren't everything you hoped/want them to be; but they are good enough where it can be very hard to walk away without an alternative answer waiting in the wings. Also good enough to where your team likely won't be in a great spot to take a serious swing at the position in the draft.

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

Harmon and Koh touched on MHJ in a recent pod and talked on a few things with his rookie year; really pointing out it's a three pronged issue and really all three of the problems play off of eachother. This thread touched on his own issues quite a bit, namely with separation, ability to attack the ball at the catch point, attacking WRs at the break points of routes (especially down the field routes), and the fact he doesn't play super fast (kind of confirms why he may not have tested at the combine).

But much of that can tie back to how the coaching staff used him. In college he not only didn't have many issues with separating, but it was one of his strengths. And he was never some size/speed freak. So why the staff had him play almost all his snaps at X, and had him running as many 9s as they did is beyond me. It definitely contributes to some of the poor separation scores. He also had almost no "easy"/get the ball in his hands routes. He ran few slants, almost no digs, and Harmons sample size had him running only 1 screen. Terrible on the staff tbh.

And then the third issue; one which keeps me low on MHJ moving forward more than anything he's done, or even the coaching staff, and that's Murray (and can sprinkle the o-line in here). Murray does not throw enough between the numbers in the intermediate part of the field; and this is where a technician style WR like MHJ eats. The easiest guess to why is he's too short and doesn't have a line that gives him enough space and time to find guys there knowing it's not as easy for him. Can dig at other things on Murray here, like his penchant for pulling and running, or even just rolling outside and making those throws to the middle of the field that much more dangerous to make. But regardless, it's shown in his passing charts that he just doesn't work that part of the game like other QBs.

So the fact the Cardinals did little to nothing to improve the line, and also didn't add another receiving weapon, especially an X who could allow MHJ to move around the formation more as well as stop wasting him on running 9 clear out routes as much; leaves me feeling not great about his outlook for this year. He still did well for a rookie, and should be able to continue improving parts of his game; but he can't redesign the offensive scheme or make Murray grow 6 inches. Hopefully Arizona can do right for him sooner than later.

Murray should be in an offense designed off bootlegs and play action.

Do things to give him clear throwing lanes like Payton did with Brees.

Except Kyler will do Kyler things and turn the bootleg into an 8 yard rushing gain and (another) torn ACL.

Agree with you both. Even an improved line could help give him a little more cushion and some better vision to the mid field. Saints did very well with that as well to help Brees find success as a shorter guy. But I do think we've seen what Kyler is at this point. Not sure that leopard is changing it's spots.

They have a relatively cheap out on him after the 2026 season. But Kyler feels kinda like Tua or some of these other QBs where it can be hard to walk away. They aren't everything you hoped/want them to be; but they are good enough where it can be very hard to walk away without an alternative answer waiting in the wings. Also good enough to where your team likely won't be in a great spot to take a serious swing at the position in the draft.

That's always the rub with these QB15-20 guys. Any worse than that and they are bound to be replaced. But finding a replacement in the draft past pick 10 is a serious challenge. Then you have to manage the ego of BOTH a 1st round pick QB and a mediocre vet QB. It's a tough call. I do agree that the coaching staffs really need to be better at tailoring an offense with their specific QB in mind, but too often THEIR egos get in the way.

 

[Faust]

Marvin Harrison Jr. emphasizing body, Cards' success in Year 2