WR Marvin Harrison Jr., ARZ (2 Viewers)

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Agree that in redrafts he is being drafted closer to his ceiling than floor.

I mean, so’s CeeDee Lamb, Chase, Bijan, etc.

Virtually all elite assets are drafted at their ceiling. Only JJ & AJB seem like they’re values in the 1st this year.

I just don’t see why it’s a knock on MH2. Either he can play or he can’t. If he has the talent & the target share, I’ll gladly take a flier in the early 2nd.

I love Harrison long term, but I think that early 2nd is tough for ANY rookie WR, even the best one in 17 years.

Personally, I keep seeing Harrison going in the same spot as Puka (after his knee injury) and I feel like I greatly prefer Puka there, as the guy who already has shown his NFL ability, even if he's not 100% week 1. Even someone like Davante Adams, I find myself leaning over Harrison as a more trustworthy player.

I too have Puka over Harrison, but not over Adams. I do believe there's a very good chance that Adams out-scores MH2, but there's equal risk of injury or bad QB play derailing his season. Age is a significant factor for me there. MH2 is a sexier pick, and we've seen Murray with a top WR make magic.

That's the sort of pick that would have me talking to myself all off-season if I took Adams, and MH2 was an elite tier performer.

 

[King of the Jungle]

Agree that in redrafts he is being drafted closer to his ceiling than floor.

I mean, so’s CeeDee Lamb, Chase, Bijan, etc.

Virtually all elite assets are drafted at their ceiling. Only JJ & AJB seem like they’re values in the 1st this year.

I just don’t see why it’s a knock on MH2. Either he can play or he can’t. If he has the talent & the target share, I’ll gladly take a flier in the early 2nd.

I love Harrison long term, but I think that early 2nd is tough for ANY rookie WR, even the best one in 17 years.

Personally, I keep seeing Harrison going in the same spot as Puka (after his knee injury) and I feel like I greatly prefer Puka there, as the guy who already has shown his NFL ability, even if he's not 100% week 1. Even someone like Davante Adams, I find myself leaning over Harrison as a more trustworthy player.

I too have Puka over Harrison, but not over Adams. I do believe there's a very good chance that Adams out-scores MH2, but there's equal risk of injury or bad QB play derailing his season. Age is a significant factor for me there. MH2 is a sexier pick, and we've seen Murray with a top WR make magic.

That's the sort of pick that would have me talking to myself all off-season if I took Adams, and MH2 was an elite tier performer.

That reminds me when I picked Isaac Bruce over Randy Moss in his rookie year for a redraft. Stung all year. I am not super confident in MHJr living up to expectations this year, but I think his floor is much closer to Adam’s ceiling than MHJr’s ceiling is to Adam’s floor. Not sure if that makes sense to anyone else.

 

[travdogg]

Agree that in redrafts he is being drafted closer to his ceiling than floor.

I mean, so’s CeeDee Lamb, Chase, Bijan, etc.

Virtually all elite assets are drafted at their ceiling. Only JJ & AJB seem like they’re values in the 1st this year.

I just don’t see why it’s a knock on MH2. Either he can play or he can’t. If he has the talent & the target share, I’ll gladly take a flier in the early 2nd.

I love Harrison long term, but I think that early 2nd is tough for ANY rookie WR, even the best one in 17 years.

Personally, I keep seeing Harrison going in the same spot as Puka (after his knee injury) and I feel like I greatly prefer Puka there, as the guy who already has shown his NFL ability, even if he's not 100% week 1. Even someone like Davante Adams, I find myself leaning over Harrison as a more trustworthy player.

I too have Puka over Harrison, but not over Adams. I do believe there's a very good chance that Adams out-scores MH2, but there's equal risk of injury or bad QB play derailing his season. Age is a significant factor for me there. MH2 is a sexier pick, and we've seen Murray with a top WR make magic.

That's the sort of pick that would have me talking to myself all off-season if I took Adams, and MH2 was an elite tier performer.

My case for Adams>Harrison:

Adams has led the NFL in targets over the last 2 seasons. Once the Raiders settled in after firing McDaniels and benching Jimmy G, Adams finished the season with 8-101-1, 1-4 (in that ugly no offense for either team win at KC) 13-126-2, and 5-46-1.

When Getsy was passing game coordinator with Adams in GB, Adams had 115-1374-18 and 123-1553-11 seasons. Sure, those were with Aaron Rodgers, so the 18 TDs is not happening, but 11 isn't unreasonable, and the 110+ catches is very reasonable, as he's had over 100 in 5 of the last 6 years, across 2 teams, 4 QBs, and 3 different play callers. The only season he didn't top 100 catches, he only played 12 games.

Getsy for all his faults, has proven he can build an offense around featuring 1 pass catcher, as DJ Moore put up 96-1364-8 last year, and while Moore is good, he's not the player Adams is. Also, Gardner Minshew fed Michael Pittman (a far inferior talent) 109 catches last season.

I think we are writing off Adams as an elite WR too soon. Frankly, I think we are undervaluing the Raiders in general as they could easily finish 2nd in the AFC West, and Antonio Pierce does give off some Dan Campbell-like culture changer vibes.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I think we are writing off Adams as an elite WR too soon

I agree with everything you posted, but age most certainly is a factor.

I’ve been the guy to draft a player past 30 only to have a front row seat for the decline.

I have the same fear with Kupp.

I know you shouldn’t play FF scared, but ya shouldn’t play it blindly either. Adams took a lot of hits last year. AOC & Minshew could both hang him out to dry in the open field. Seeing Adams on Receiver was eye opening.

So yeah, you’re probably right and it’s probably just me being risk averse with early picks.

It’s a really interesting discussion as I’m sure I’ll be faced with this decision in more than one draft.

 

[RaidersAreOne]

Adams is very much still elite. He's just unfortunately stuck in one of the worst QB situations so his stats aren't as god-tier as they were/should be.

 

[Faust]

Joe Beldner
Many flashy plays occur when a receiver needs to make a contested catch or has to adjust their body position to secure the ball.

Marvin Harrison Jr. creates so much separation that most of his catches look effortless and boring.

This is a good thing.

x.com

x.com

 

[Faust]

Marvin Harrison Jr. solidifies role in Cards' training camp

 

[Da Franchise]

I’m fairly sure there’s never been a bigger pain in the *** rookie than this guy and it’s reached the point I want nothing to do with him.

Fanatics amends lawsuit to accuse Marvin Harrison Sr., Marvin Harrison Jr. of fraud

Apparent signature shell game becomes massive unforced error for Harrisons

www.nbcsports.com

 

[Truebluey]

Hopkins in 2020 had 160 targets over 100 receptions with Murray.

I think MHJr will have similar opportunity as long as he is healthy. Murray has shown he can feed a top receiver well before so as long as he is healthy I think MHJr should have a very strong season.

For redraft I am likely not taking him at ADP but if he slides to end of the 2nd round I start thinking about it as the other guys I would take over him will be gone by then.

He went with the last pick in the 2nd in my 12-team PPR draft last night.

Surprising. Literally first real draft I have seen or heard of him dropping that far, at least in a PPR draft.

Doing IBL drafts right now (FBG has a team of 12 players participating) and while I'm not claiming that this draft has 72 FF savants in it, it's made up of mostly serious players, and in the 6 drafts, Harrison has gone:

2.02
2.02
1.12
2.03
2.04
1.12

While he may fall to late 2nd in random drafts, that will be an outlier IMO

His ADP is 17 in half PPR and 16 in full PPR on fantasypros, which is about halfway between the 1/2 turn and the 2/3 turn. So there are more drafts where he's being taken at or close to the 2/3 turn than you think.

Seems a bit rich for a rookie with an injury prone QB doesn’t it?

Too rich for me. I'd rather have Nabers in the 4th or 5th.

That's not the way to think about roster production though, is it? Yes, I'd love to grab Nabers in the 5th, he would be more highly ranked than the other wrs there on my board. (Not gonna happen I think).

But at pick 2.6 if mhj is there, you're thinking do I take a wr, and if so, is it him, or
Davante Adams
Drake London
Mike Evans
Chris Olave?

All those guys have question marks in my mind. Adams and Evans is age. Olave is his qb and o line. London is that he's never done it.

I must admit I'm torn in that situation.

 

[King of the Jungle]

Hopkins in 2020 had 160 targets over 100 receptions with Murray.

I think MHJr will have similar opportunity as long as he is healthy. Murray has shown he can feed a top receiver well before so as long as he is healthy I think MHJr should have a very strong season.

For redraft I am likely not taking him at ADP but if he slides to end of the 2nd round I start thinking about it as the other guys I would take over him will be gone by then.

He went with the last pick in the 2nd in my 12-team PPR draft last night.

Surprising. Literally first real draft I have seen or heard of him dropping that far, at least in a PPR draft.

Doing IBL drafts right now (FBG has a team of 12 players participating) and while I'm not claiming that this draft has 72 FF savants in it, it's made up of mostly serious players, and in the 6 drafts, Harrison has gone:

2.02
2.02
1.12
2.03
2.04
1.12

While he may fall to late 2nd in random drafts, that will be an outlier IMO

His ADP is 17 in half PPR and 16 in full PPR on fantasypros, which is about halfway between the 1/2 turn and the 2/3 turn. So there are more drafts where he's being taken at or close to the 2/3 turn than you think.

Seems a bit rich for a rookie with an injury prone QB doesn’t it?

Too rich for me. I'd rather have Nabers in the 4th or 5th.

That's not the way to think about roster production though, is it? Yes, I'd love to grab Nabers in the 5th, he would be more highly ranked than the other wrs there on my board. (Not gonna happen I think).

But at pick 2.6 if mhj is there, you're thinking do I take a wr, and if so, is it him, or
Davante Adams
Drake London
Mike Evans
Chris Olave?

All those guys have question marks in my mind. Adams and Evans is age. Olave is his qb and o line. London is that he's never done it.

I must admit I'm torn in that situation.

Great question and tough decision. I am staying away from Adams (age, QB, additional weapons). Evans seems like a fairly safe bet. London I like but like many prefer to see it with those options available and would take him over Adams/Evans due to his upside and the others age. I remember taking Isaac Bruce over Moss (rookie year) and that haunted me, so if gun to head I am probably taking MHJr over that group and hope he lives up to the hype.

 

[Biabreakable]

I feel similarly to KOJ about those 4 options. I think I prefer the upside of MHjr over them.

I've never been much of a fan of those 3 other WR though.

If Harrison reaches his full potential as a rookie I think the numbers will be more similar to Justin Jefferson rookie season than Randy Moss but I do get the analogy.

Moss broke the NFL when he came into the league and the way he won was pretty much unstoppable. Defenses are better prepared now.

 

[kyoun1e]

Hopkins in 2020 had 160 targets over 100 receptions with Murray.

I think MHJr will have similar opportunity as long as he is healthy. Murray has shown he can feed a top receiver well before so as long as he is healthy I think MHJr should have a very strong season.

For redraft I am likely not taking him at ADP but if he slides to end of the 2nd round I start thinking about it as the other guys I would take over him will be gone by then.

He went with the last pick in the 2nd in my 12-team PPR draft last night.

Surprising. Literally first real draft I have seen or heard of him dropping that far, at least in a PPR draft.

Doing IBL drafts right now (FBG has a team of 12 players participating) and while I'm not claiming that this draft has 72 FF savants in it, it's made up of mostly serious players, and in the 6 drafts, Harrison has gone:

2.02
2.02
1.12
2.03
2.04
1.12

While he may fall to late 2nd in random drafts, that will be an outlier IMO

His ADP is 17 in half PPR and 16 in full PPR on fantasypros, which is about halfway between the 1/2 turn and the 2/3 turn. So there are more drafts where he's being taken at or close to the 2/3 turn than you think.

Seems a bit rich for a rookie with an injury prone QB doesn’t it?

Too rich for me. I'd rather have Nabers in the 4th or 5th.

That's not the way to think about roster production though, is it? Yes, I'd love to grab Nabers in the 5th, he would be more highly ranked than the other wrs there on my board. (Not gonna happen I think).

But at pick 2.6 if mhj is there, you're thinking do I take a wr, and if so, is it him, or
Davante Adams
Drake London
Mike Evans
Chris Olave?

All those guys have question marks in my mind. Adams and Evans is age. Olave is his qb and o line. London is that he's never done it.

I must admit I'm torn in that situation.

Yup. I hate all those guys.

The guy I'm taking, who has a lower ADP, is Nico Collins. I want a piece of the HOU passing attack.

 

[massraider]

Hopkins in 2020 had 160 targets over 100 receptions with Murray.

I think MHJr will have similar opportunity as long as he is healthy. Murray has shown he can feed a top receiver well before so as long as he is healthy I think MHJr should have a very strong season.

For redraft I am likely not taking him at ADP but if he slides to end of the 2nd round I start thinking about it as the other guys I would take over him will be gone by then.

He went with the last pick in the 2nd in my 12-team PPR draft last night.

Surprising. Literally first real draft I have seen or heard of him dropping that far, at least in a PPR draft.

Doing IBL drafts right now (FBG has a team of 12 players participating) and while I'm not claiming that this draft has 72 FF savants in it, it's made up of mostly serious players, and in the 6 drafts, Harrison has gone:

2.02
2.02
1.12
2.03
2.04
1.12

While he may fall to late 2nd in random drafts, that will be an outlier IMO

His ADP is 17 in half PPR and 16 in full PPR on fantasypros, which is about halfway between the 1/2 turn and the 2/3 turn. So there are more drafts where he's being taken at or close to the 2/3 turn than you think.

Seems a bit rich for a rookie with an injury prone QB doesn’t it?

Too rich for me. I'd rather have Nabers in the 4th or 5th.

That's not the way to think about roster production though, is it? Yes, I'd love to grab Nabers in the 5th, he would be more highly ranked than the other wrs there on my board. (Not gonna happen I think).

But at pick 2.6 if mhj is there, you're thinking do I take a wr, and if so, is it him, or
Davante Adams
Drake London
Mike Evans
Chris Olave?

All those guys have question marks in my mind. Adams and Evans is age. Olave is his qb and o line. London is that he's never done it.

I must admit I'm torn in that situation.

If we are picking nits, I drop Adams and Olave down the board, franchise/QB concerns. I am not dying to have part of LV/NO offenses.

Probably Evans over London, because he has done it, as you said. I could see London having similar yards, but when it comes to TDs, Evans has a pretty nice situation. If they are throwing in the red zone, it's Evans or Godwin.

You are buying the ceiling with London, and Harrison, for sure.

If Harrison is going at the turn, and Nabers is going in the 4th, I would be building my entire draft around taking Nabers in the 4th.

 

[efactor]

Hopkins in 2020 had 160 targets over 100 receptions with Murray.

I think MHJr will have similar opportunity as long as he is healthy. Murray has shown he can feed a top receiver well before so as long as he is healthy I think MHJr should have a very strong season.

For redraft I am likely not taking him at ADP but if he slides to end of the 2nd round I start thinking about it as the other guys I would take over him will be gone by then.

He went with the last pick in the 2nd in my 12-team PPR draft last night.

Surprising. Literally first real draft I have seen or heard of him dropping that far, at least in a PPR draft.

Doing IBL drafts right now (FBG has a team of 12 players participating) and while I'm not claiming that this draft has 72 FF savants in it, it's made up of mostly serious players, and in the 6 drafts, Harrison has gone:

2.02
2.02
1.12
2.03
2.04
1.12

While he may fall to late 2nd in random drafts, that will be an outlier IMO

His ADP is 17 in half PPR and 16 in full PPR on fantasypros, which is about halfway between the 1/2 turn and the 2/3 turn. So there are more drafts where he's being taken at or close to the 2/3 turn than you think.

Seems a bit rich for a rookie with an injury prone QB doesn’t it?

Too rich for me. I'd rather have Nabers in the 4th or 5th.

That's not the way to think about roster production though, is it? Yes, I'd love to grab Nabers in the 5th, he would be more highly ranked than the other wrs there on my board. (Not gonna happen I think).

But at pick 2.6 if mhj is there, you're thinking do I take a wr, and if so, is it him, or
Davante Adams
Drake London
Mike Evans
Chris Olave?

All those guys have question marks in my mind. Adams and Evans is age. Olave is his qb and o line. London is that he's never done it.

I must admit I'm torn in that situation.

Yup. I hate all those guys.

The guy I'm taking, who has a lower ADP, is Nico Collins. I want a piece of the HOU passing attack.

As much as I love Nico (drafted and held in dynasty), in redraft, he's a pass for me at mid/2nd round. With Dell back and healthy and adding Diggs, he will have to be super efficient to hit last years numbers. Add in that they upgraded their running game with Mixon, who's also a solid pass catching back, plus Shultz will get a decent share of targets. Plus Ryans is a defense oriented coach who is going to manage games more conservatively when they have a lead. If you want a part of the Texans passing attack, I'm in the group that will grab Dell around the 5/6 turn.

 

[Truebluey]

Don't want to derail the thread, but how can you "hate" a fantasy choice like Evans? The most consistent elite wr of the decade, in great shape, has a terrific connection with his qb, and is on a mission to break the all time wr td record this season.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

If Harrison is going at the turn, and Nabers is going in the 4th, I would be building my entire draft around taking Nabers in the 4th.

Nabers is very typically going in the 3rd in my NFFC drafts.

No idea where he goes today in my home league. Hopefully to me in the 4th.

The real question is would you take MH2 in the 2nd and then double dip on Nabers in the late 3rd/early 4th if you had the chance?

Or are 2 rookies 1 rookie WR too many to lead your WR room?

 

[efactor]

If Harrison is going at the turn, and Nabers is going in the 4th, I would be building my entire draft around taking Nabers in the 4th.

Nabers is very typically going in the 3rd in my NFFC drafts.

No idea where he goes today in my home league. Hopefully to me in the 4th.

The real question is would you take MH2 in the 2nd and then double dip on Nabers in the late 3rd/early 4th if you had the chance?

Or are 2 rookies 1 rookie WR too many to lead your WR room?

I would have no problem with Harrison and Nabors. They are that good.

 

[massraider]

If Harrison is going at the turn, and Nabers is going in the 4th, I would be building my entire draft around taking Nabers in the 4th.

Nabers is very typically going in the 3rd in my NFFC drafts.

No idea where he goes today in my home league. Hopefully to me in the 4th.

The real question is would you take MH2 in the 2nd and then double dip on Nabers in the late 3rd/early 4th if you had the chance?

Or are 2 rookies 1 rookie WR too many to lead your WR room?

I like Harrison a lot more as a late 2nd, but yeah, I wouldn't be afraid of that.

I don't like paying a tax, and with Harrison you are paying an excitement tax. It's just more fun to have Harrison than Evans, but is 10+ TDs really his upside? Best receiver in the league only had 7 as a rookie.

 

[Biabreakable]

Hopkins in 2020 had 160 targets over 100 receptions with Murray.

I think MHJr will have similar opportunity as long as he is healthy. Murray has shown he can feed a top receiver well before so as long as he is healthy I think MHJr should have a very strong season.

For redraft I am likely not taking him at ADP but if he slides to end of the 2nd round I start thinking about it as the other guys I would take over him will be gone by then.

He went with the last pick in the 2nd in my 12-team PPR draft last night.

Surprising. Literally first real draft I have seen or heard of him dropping that far, at least in a PPR draft.

Doing IBL drafts right now (FBG has a team of 12 players participating) and while I'm not claiming that this draft has 72 FF savants in it, it's made up of mostly serious players, and in the 6 drafts, Harrison has gone:

2.02
2.02
1.12
2.03
2.04
1.12

While he may fall to late 2nd in random drafts, that will be an outlier IMO

His ADP is 17 in half PPR and 16 in full PPR on fantasypros, which is about halfway between the 1/2 turn and the 2/3 turn. So there are more drafts where he's being taken at or close to the 2/3 turn than you think.

Seems a bit rich for a rookie with an injury prone QB doesn’t it?

Too rich for me. I'd rather have Nabers in the 4th or 5th.

That's not the way to think about roster production though, is it? Yes, I'd love to grab Nabers in the 5th, he would be more highly ranked than the other wrs there on my board. (Not gonna happen I think).

But at pick 2.6 if mhj is there, you're thinking do I take a wr, and if so, is it him, or
Davante Adams
Drake London
Mike Evans
Chris Olave?

All those guys have question marks in my mind. Adams and Evans is age. Olave is his qb and o line. London is that he's never done it.

I must admit I'm torn in that situation.

Yup. I hate all those guys.

The guy I'm taking, who has a lower ADP, is Nico Collins. I want a piece of the HOU passing attack.

Yeah well I think Diggs will be the best of those 3 WR in 2024 so for me that's between Diggs and MHjr

I can wait longer on Diggs could end up with him and MHjr still.

 

[Truebluey]

If Harrison is going at the turn, and Nabers is going in the 4th, I would be building my entire draft around taking Nabers in the 4th.

Nabers is very typically going in the 3rd in my NFFC drafts.

No idea where he goes today in my home league. Hopefully to me in the 4th.

The real question is would you take MH2 in the 2nd and then double dip on Nabers in the late 3rd/early 4th if you had the chance?

Or are 2 rookies 1 rookie WR too many to lead your WR room?

That gets at my roster construction strategy question in a nutshell.

I try not to look at labels like "rookie" and "old" in my draft process. When I do that I miss blockbuster draft choices like King Henry in 2020 or Tyreek in 2017.

For me the question is always, who do I take at that spot? Who is going to give me consistent high scores? What has me confused about MHJ is that I build my draft sheet around just a few experts whom I have come to trust over many years (not the typical YouTube guys). And these guys have Harrison rated at WR # 8 or 9, ahead of all those guys I listed earlier. And it just seems like such a leap of faith to me. Never saw him in college (unlike, for example, ADP or OBJ) so I have nothing to go on with my own gut instincts.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

If Harrison is going at the turn, and Nabers is going in the 4th, I would be building my entire draft around taking Nabers in the 4th.

Nabers is very typically going in the 3rd in my NFFC drafts.

No idea where he goes today in my home league. Hopefully to me in the 4th.

The real question is would you take MH2 in the 2nd and then double dip on Nabers in the late 3rd/early 4th if you had the chance?

Or are 2 rookies 1 rookie WR too many to lead your WR room?

In my 12-team money redraft with 3rd round reversal, someone took Harrison at 2.12 and Nabers at 3.12.

 

[massraider]

In my 12-team money redraft with 3rd round reversal, someone took Harrison at 2.12 and Nabers at 3.12.

He should have taken them at 3.1 and 4.1

Just looks better later on.

 

[menobrown]

If Harrison is going at the turn, and Nabers is going in the 4th, I would be building my entire draft around taking Nabers in the 4th.

Yes.

Just left a draft where MHJ went 1.11 and Nabers went at the 3/4 turn.

Could flip a coin on them, to me boils down to if you prefer better QB play or the guy with a shot at higher volume. It's kind of stupid of my mindset because nothing wrong with taking both but knowing Nabers is so much cheaper makes me less inclined to pay the cost for MHJ.

For the record I acquired three 1.1's in dynasty and straight shot Marvin. Own zero dynasty of Nabers. In redarft I'm sitting on zero MHJ and am loaded on Nabers. Just insanely different cost points. Saying all that I don't want to leave redraft season without a share of MHJ and mean to correct that.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

If Harrison is going at the turn, and Nabers is going in the 4th, I would be building my entire draft around taking Nabers in the 4th.

Nabers is very typically going in the 3rd in my NFFC drafts.

No idea where he goes today in my home league. Hopefully to me in the 4th.

The real question is would you take MH2 in the 2nd and then double dip on Nabers in the late 3rd/early 4th if you had the chance?

Or are 2 rookies 1 rookie WR too many to lead your WR room?

In my 12-team money redraft with 3rd round reversal, someone took Harrison at 2.12 and Nabers at 3.12.

I don’t mind that at all.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

In my 12-team money redraft with 3rd round reversal, someone took Harrison at 2.12 and Nabers at 3.12.

He should have taken them at 3.1 and 4.1

Just looks better later on.

He didn’t have 3.1. He could have done 2.12 and 4.1. But he’s the kind of guy who doesn’t care about optics.

 

[kyoun1e]

Hopkins in 2020 had 160 targets over 100 receptions with Murray.

I think MHJr will have similar opportunity as long as he is healthy. Murray has shown he can feed a top receiver well before so as long as he is healthy I think MHJr should have a very strong season.

For redraft I am likely not taking him at ADP but if he slides to end of the 2nd round I start thinking about it as the other guys I would take over him will be gone by then.

He went with the last pick in the 2nd in my 12-team PPR draft last night.

Surprising. Literally first real draft I have seen or heard of him dropping that far, at least in a PPR draft.

Doing IBL drafts right now (FBG has a team of 12 players participating) and while I'm not claiming that this draft has 72 FF savants in it, it's made up of mostly serious players, and in the 6 drafts, Harrison has gone:

2.02
2.02
1.12
2.03
2.04
1.12

While he may fall to late 2nd in random drafts, that will be an outlier IMO

His ADP is 17 in half PPR and 16 in full PPR on fantasypros, which is about halfway between the 1/2 turn and the 2/3 turn. So there are more drafts where he's being taken at or close to the 2/3 turn than you think.

Seems a bit rich for a rookie with an injury prone QB doesn’t it?

Too rich for me. I'd rather have Nabers in the 4th or 5th.

That's not the way to think about roster production though, is it? Yes, I'd love to grab Nabers in the 5th, he would be more highly ranked than the other wrs there on my board. (Not gonna happen I think).

But at pick 2.6 if mhj is there, you're thinking do I take a wr, and if so, is it him, or
Davante Adams
Drake London
Mike Evans
Chris Olave?

All those guys have question marks in my mind. Adams and Evans is age. Olave is his qb and o line. London is that he's never done it.

I must admit I'm torn in that situation.

Yup. I hate all those guys.

The guy I'm taking, who has a lower ADP, is Nico Collins. I want a piece of the HOU passing attack.

As much as I love Nico (drafted and held in dynasty), in redraft, he's a pass for me at mid/2nd round. With Dell back and healthy and adding Diggs, he will have to be super efficient to hit last years numbers. Add in that they upgraded their running game with Mixon, who's also a solid pass catching back, plus Shultz will get a decent share of targets. Plus Ryans is a defense oriented coach who is going to manage games more conservatively when they have a lead. If you want a part of the Texans passing attack, I'm in the group that will grab Dell around the 5/6 turn.

Agree on target competition, but on the flip side that offense will just be that much tougher to defend. Maybe less targets but greater efficiency.

He's one of my guys this year for sure. Just think after this upcoming year it will be understood that this guy is a beast.

 

[Biabreakable]

Hopkins in 2020 had 160 targets over 100 receptions with Murray.

I think MHJr will have similar opportunity as long as he is healthy. Murray has shown he can feed a top receiver well before so as long as he is healthy I think MHJr should have a very strong season.

For redraft I am likely not taking him at ADP but if he slides to end of the 2nd round I start thinking about it as the other guys I would take over him will be gone by then.

He went with the last pick in the 2nd in my 12-team PPR draft last night.

Surprising. Literally first real draft I have seen or heard of him dropping that far, at least in a PPR draft.

Doing IBL drafts right now (FBG has a team of 12 players participating) and while I'm not claiming that this draft has 72 FF savants in it, it's made up of mostly serious players, and in the 6 drafts, Harrison has gone:

2.02
2.02
1.12
2.03
2.04
1.12

While he may fall to late 2nd in random drafts, that will be an outlier IMO

His ADP is 17 in half PPR and 16 in full PPR on fantasypros, which is about halfway between the 1/2 turn and the 2/3 turn. So there are more drafts where he's being taken at or close to the 2/3 turn than you think.

Seems a bit rich for a rookie with an injury prone QB doesn’t it?

Too rich for me. I'd rather have Nabers in the 4th or 5th.

That's not the way to think about roster production though, is it? Yes, I'd love to grab Nabers in the 5th, he would be more highly ranked than the other wrs there on my board. (Not gonna happen I think).

But at pick 2.6 if mhj is there, you're thinking do I take a wr, and if so, is it him, or
Davante Adams
Drake London
Mike Evans
Chris Olave?

All those guys have question marks in my mind. Adams and Evans is age. Olave is his qb and o line. London is that he's never done it.

I must admit I'm torn in that situation.

Yup. I hate all those guys.

The guy I'm taking, who has a lower ADP, is Nico Collins. I want a piece of the HOU passing attack.

As much as I love Nico (drafted and held in dynasty), in redraft, he's a pass for me at mid/2nd round. With Dell back and healthy and adding Diggs, he will have to be super efficient to hit last years numbers. Add in that they upgraded their running game with Mixon, who's also a solid pass catching back, plus Shultz will get a decent share of targets. Plus Ryans is a defense oriented coach who is going to manage games more conservatively when they have a lead. If you want a part of the Texans passing attack, I'm in the group that will grab Dell around the 5/6 turn.

Agree on target competition, but on the flip side that offense will just be that much tougher to defend. Maybe less targets but greater efficiency.

He's one of my guys this year for sure. Just think after this upcoming year it will be understood that this guy is a beast.

Why didn't that show itself in 2022 then?

He had some injuries.. ok and I also read an article about Collins learning how to read defensive coverage. That NFL defenses hide their coverage pre snap then do something else. So that's good, he is improving but he still didn't get more targets than 29 year old Brandin Cooks on a per game basis and Collins catch percentage was below 60% his first 2 seasons.

Now a lot of that could be because of the difference in QB play of Mills compared to Stroud. Collins had 73% catch rate in 2023 with Stroud improving by 18% it was enough to bring Collins career catch rate to a respectable 64% now.

That said Collins 2023 efficiency stats were so good I think those numbers regress towards towards the NFL average rather than improve from 2023.

Brandin Cooks is very good WR and it's not a big deal to play 2nd fiddle to him but Diggs now is much better than Brandin Cooks was then.

 

[cockroach]

I would love for this guy to struggle out of the gate so I can try to swoop in on a panicky owner, but I don't see it.

 

[zed2283]

I predict 10 targets the first game.

 

[DeaLerZ]

I would love for this guy to struggle out of the gate so I can try to swoop in on a panicky owner, but I don't see it.

Yeah doubt it. his route running is elite, and he is just great at getting open and Murray will throw to him early and often

 

[Faust]

Cardinals rookie WR Marvin Harrison Jr. ready to embrace NFL spotlight after quiet preseason

 

[DeaLerZ]

Can't wait to see this guy in action. Has that crazy rookie year potential in a great situation

 

[nittanylion]

Bold take season: when 2024 live bullets start flying, Marvin winds up being a late bloomer, and we don't see him hit his stride until next year.

 

[zed2283]

Well that certainly was a bust...

 

[VikingFrog]

Lots of rookie WRs involved today already. This one is baffling.

 

[EBF]

In 20+ years of FF, I can't remember another rookie WR having such a high ADP in redraft formats.

I don't think Chase, Julio, or Evans were taken so high.

Maybe Watkins, Green, and Fitzgerald? I still don't think so.

People treated MJH like he's not a rookie and drafted him near his ceiling.

If we're looking for silver linings, the Cardinals look like a capable offense that will move the ball.

I don't see any other WR on this roster snatching the WR1 role, so I still like MJH to lead their WRs in targets/receptions/yards.

 

[irish eyes]

Brutal, 3 or 4 targets.

 

[zed2283]

In 20+ years of FF, I can't remember another rookie WR having such a high ADP in redraft formats.

I don't think Chase, Julio, or Evans were taken so high.

Maybe Watkins, Green, and Fitzgerald? I still don't think so.

People treated MJH like he's not a rookie and drafted him near his ceiling.

If we're looking for silver linings, the Cardinals look like a capable offense that will move the ball.

I don't see any other WR on this roster snatching the WR1 role, so I still like MJH to lead their WRs in targets/receptions/yards.

From what I saw, Murray barely looked his way the entire game.

Didn't see him wide open deep on what would have been the go-ahead TD at the end.

 

[Deamon]

Baffling.

 

[Desert_Power]

In 20+ years of FF, I can't remember another rookie WR having such a high ADP in redraft formats.

It was pure insanity.

 

[Uncle Leo]

It’s one game. He will be a stud for all the folks that took him in round 2 or 3 in 12 Men Redraft. He actually went in round 4 in our league.

 

[JohnnyU]

Darn rookie. He’s supposed to light up the scoreboard right out of the gate. Don’t most rookies?

 

[VikingFrog]

Darn rookie. He’s supposed to light up the scoreboard right out of the gate. Don’t most rookies?

I think people are more concerned about his involvement looking at other lesser rookies around the league being more involved.

He was drafted as if he was arizonas only WR receiving threat and a target hog.

I agree with you it’s still early but easy to hit the panic button in week one.

 

[karl.Racki]

Darn rookie. He’s supposed to light up the scoreboard right out of the gate. Don’t most rookies?

I think people are more concerned about his involvement looking at other lesser rookies around the league being more involved.

He was drafted as if he was arizonas only WR receiving threat and a target hog.

I agree with you it’s still early but easy to hit the panic button in week one.

I aired my concerns in the game thread, but will here..

MHJ is a down the field monster. His strength is running and making catches 10-15 yards beyond the line of scrimmage. Over the past few seasons, Arizona's offense is alot more run, and underneath stuff.

I am in no way saying he isn't going to be a major player, but you would think a team that hasn't had a big play WR in a few years would try to target their new toy in his first game. 1 catch is crazy for him, and the 3 targets is also concerning.

 

[Uncle Leo]

Darn rookie. He’s supposed to light up the scoreboard right out of the gate. Don’t most rookies?

Xavier Worthy set up some big standards for the rookie WRs. Brian Thomas had a very good game today.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

I would love for this guy to struggle out of the gate so I can try to swoop in on a panicky owner, but I don't see it.

Ask and you shall receive

 

[JohnnyU]

Darn rookie. He’s supposed to light up the scoreboard right out of the gate. Don’t most rookies?

Xavier Worthy set up some big standards for the rookie WRs. Brian Thomas had a very good game today.

Yep, that should mean success for most of them

 

[ShamrockPride]

Bold take season: when 2024 live bullets start flying, Marvin winds up being a late bloomer, and we don't see him hit his stride until next year.

Monitoring...

 

[GroveDiesel]

Darn rookie. He’s supposed to light up the scoreboard right out of the gate. Don’t most rookies?

Xavier Worthy set up some big standards for the rookie WRs. Brian Thomas had a very good game today.

Keon Coleman in the Sam’s game seemed to be a bigger focus than MHJR. But then again, if Harrison was doubled a bunch, that could be a big part of that.

 

[zed2283]

I blame Murray.