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WR Marvin Harrison Jr., ARZ (2 Viewers)

So what I'm taking from all of these comments is I made a huge mistake taking him #1 in dynasty rookie draft this year?
Panic already set in my biggest money dynasty league and someone traded him last night for basically Jayden Reed and a projected late second.

I'm a long long way from being at that point, though for sure I wish I'd have taken Nabers over him.
As an MHJ owner...I'm a bit flabbergasted at the panic. Even your proclamation seems odd given

1) It's one week
2) The issues that people pointed to as to why Nabors was a rung below MHJ, and were much more deep-rooted to overall production, reared their head significantly more prominently in Week 1
3) The ARI offense actually looked pretty good against a tough D
I got to say I think labeling it odd is way over the top.

For one I had them extremely close during the entirety of the process, did not see some major gap between them, no rung below. I was willing to move back from 1.1 to 1.2 if I could just get something like an early second. Tried in fact.

Secondly in terms of evaluating players the info we pick up when they are playing in actual NFL games should carry more weight then what we "think" they will look like.

There is a lot more concerning stuff then his week one stat line. Some of that can change with a coaches decision, some of it may be deeper rooted.

Nabers looks like Chase/OBJ, he's a year younger then MHJ and his major issue is Daniel Jones and he's not stuck with him forever. And even with Daniel Jones, I felt even before week one, and I stress that even before week one part, that Nabers would outproduce him this year.

I mainly went MHJ over Nabers because I heard concerns on Nabers off the field and playing close to NY highlighted those concerns to me whereas Marvin struck me as super clean on and off the field and I've endured a ton of Antonio Brown/Watson/Tyreek Hill scares on to many teams. Also just think something about the balls out way that Nabers plays is more conducive to injuries over duration of their careers and this is why I went MHJ in dynasty, though again something on par with an early second would have been enough to go Nabers.

So you can call it odd, but I'd be willing to met that high majority of leagues that if the MHJ owner offered him to Nabers they'd not get an accept.

Lastly please don't confuse this with panicking on MHJ or paint me into that argument. The more I see of Nabers I am just widly high on him and drafted an absolute ton of him in redraft meanwhile the more I see of MHJ the more concerns that crop up. In what was a close call back in May, it's enough to tilt it the other way today.
 
So what I'm taking from all of these comments is I made a huge mistake taking him #1 in dynasty rookie draft this year?
Panic already set in my biggest money dynasty league and someone traded him last night for basically Jayden Reed and a projected late second.

I'm a long long way from being at that point, though for sure I wish I'd have taken Nabers over him.
As an MHJ owner...I'm a bit flabbergasted at the panic. Even your proclamation seems odd given

1) It's one week
2) The issues that people pointed to as to why Nabors was a rung below MHJ, and were much more deep-rooted to overall production, reared their head significantly more prominently in Week 1
3) The ARI offense actually looked pretty good against a tough D
I got to say I think labeling it odd is way over the top.

For one I had them extremely close during the entirety of the process, did not see some major gap between them, no rung below. I was willing to move back from 1.1 to 1.2 if I could just get something like an early second. Tried in fact.

Secondly in terms of evaluating players the info we pick up when they are playing in actual NFL games should carry more weight then what we "think" they will look like.

There is a lot more concerning stuff then his week one stat line. Some of that can change with a coaches decision, some of it may be deeper rooted.

Nabers looks like Chase/OBJ, he's a year younger then MHJ and his major issue is Daniel Jones and he's not stuck with him forever. And even with Daniel Jones, I felt even before week one, and I stress that even before week one part, that Nabers would outproduce him this year.

I mainly went MHJ over Nabers because I heard concerns on Nabers off the field and playing close to NY highlighted those concerns to me whereas Marvin struck me as super clean on and off the field and I've endured a ton of Antonio Brown/Watson/Tyreek Hill scares on to many teams. Also just think something about the balls out way that Nabers plays is more conducive to injuries over duration of their careers and this is why I went MHJ in dynasty, though again something on par with an early second would have been enough to go Nabers.

So you can call it odd, but I'd be willing to met that high majority of leagues that if the MHJ owner offered him to Nabers they'd not get an accept.

Lastly please don't confuse this with panicking on MHJ or paint me into that argument. The more I see of Nabers I am just widly high on him and drafted an absolute ton of him in redraft meanwhile the more I see of MHJ the more concerns that crop up. In what was a close call back in May, it's enough to tilt it the other way today.

...and to be fair, I see FF thru a redraft lens. So my bad there.

However...not being tied to Daniel Jones past this year (likely) doesn't mean you can make an assumption that the next man up here will be his 'forever QB'. Say what you will about Murray...but at least you know (barring injury) that these two will develop rapport and a QB/WR1 relationship. It's happening as we speak. And Murray has supported a legit FF WR1 in his career before (Hopkins).

Week 1 always produces overreactions...it's problem is that it represents 100% of the 2024 season data that we have to go by which all of a sudden changes cemented off-season/pre-season narratives; both positively/negatively...and I think we all struggle to make sense of that lighting fast transition. But in reality, we won't remember week 1 details by Halloween.

I remember when the Falcons drafted Calvin Ridley in 2018. Lot of excitement about him. Went 0/0/0 in game 1 on two targets and the fanbase went apeish. His next 3 games saw him go 19/264/6. So my advice, not that you're asking for it, is to trust your process and decision tree.
 
In 20+ years of FF, I can't remember another rookie WR having such a high ADP in redraft formats.

I don't think Chase, Julio, or Evans were taken so high.

Maybe Watkins, Green, and Fitzgerald? I still don't think so.

People treated MJH like he's not a rookie and drafted him near his ceiling.

If we're looking for silver linings, the Cardinals look like a capable offense that will move the ball.

I don't see any other WR on this roster snatching the WR1 role, so I still like MJH to lead their WRs in targets/receptions/yards.
I recall that 2011 class and in 1 of my redrafts in a NFFC WR hungry start 3 WR leagues I took Julio round 6 and AJG in round 7.

This is a new era where everyone is after the new thing it is just where we are either you had to take Marvin and Nabers where they were going or you had to pass.

Back in the day it was never like that. Times change.
 
2024 Season, also his rookie year, sum it up in 1 word - Overrated
People that take him in the 2nd round deserve what awaits them

One of the biggest gaffes possible in the first 2-3 rounds of any redraft.
Definitely won't be on the MoP this year
Wish him nothing but success but he can't possibly accumulate the numbers needed as a rookie to create any value whatsoever where he is slotted or being drafted.

:popcorn:
:popcorn:
 
Strange how he caught 0 balls for 0 yards in quarters 2-4 today. Yes up big but still strange.
Well, Kyler missed him twice in the endzone in the second half. Harrison had a clear one-on-one advantage on the defenders and should have converted one of those, for sure.
 
The Top 10: The Cliff's Notes

Marvin Harrison, Jr. is as much of a problem with his production as Kyler Murray. Bench Harrison for now.

Ouch.
 
Not looking at anyone in particular. Every league is also different. Having said that, the owners that say things like I'm not gonna start Harrison, Metcalf, etc seems odd to me. It's week two. Your starting your 2nd round pick. Or your 4th. Right?
 
The Top 10: The Cliff's Notes

Marvin Harrison, Jr. is as much of a problem with his production as Kyler Murray. Bench Harrison for now.

Ouch.
I have one share. Started him with confidence today. Was rewarded for it.
Kyler Murray in another league had a really nice outing too.

Moral of the story, stick with six months of analysis over 60 minutes of play time.
 
Not looking at anyone in particular. Every league is also different. Having said that, the owners that say things like I'm not gonna start Harrison, Metcalf, etc seems odd to me. It's week two. Your starting your 2nd round pick. Or your 4th. Right?

Yes. Too many guys trying to look smart (including myself). We spent months directing this stuff. Have some conviction at last for September
 
2024 Season, also his rookie year, sum it up in 1 word - Overrated
People that take him in the 2nd round deserve what awaits them

One of the biggest gaffes possible in the first 2-3 rounds of any redraft.
Definitely won't be on the MoP this year
Wish him nothing but success but he can't possibly accumulate the numbers needed as a rookie to create any value whatsoever where he is slotted or being drafted.

:popcorn:

It's a little soon for victory laps, no?

I took him in the second round with the 18th pick - WR11, full PPR 12 team redraft

seemed rated about right to me
  • WR17 so far, WR18 on a PPG basis
took London (WR13) in the 3rd

got Reed (WR5) in the 8th

:shrug:

was an overpay for a WR3 but it's not exactly hurting me so far

have watched 3 of the Cardinals 4 games in their entirety

Kyler has been very effective on the first 15 scripted plays, then it kind of goes pear shaped

they definitely are not in sync, been a lot of back shoulder throws that are nowhere close - they're not on the same page about what they are seeing

hopefully that improves as the year goes along

Cards D does not generate pressure so I expect they'll be passing a lot all year trying to play catch up

14th in PF and 27th in PA is a good formula for FF success

that said, the Arizona offense Is very slow paced and they're in the bottom for pass/run ration - just over 50% when the league leaders are throwing 65%+

MHJ is only 29th in targets (7.25 /g) despite his 25.7% market share of targets

he's been efficient with his opportunity but def feels like there is still a lot of meat on the bone

it's still early but would love to see what he can do if they start giving him some Drake London type ball hog action
 
I thought Kyler would be a solid QB for Harrison, but not so much. Late on the slant pass and left Harrison exposed. So hard to watch too.
 
First Nabers and now MHJ. These concussions are a problem. Do we think those additional support on top of the helmets could have prevented these?
 
spotted wearing his regular red jersey at practice Friday

as opposed to the yellow non-contact jersey he was sporting Thursday

he is still in the league's concussion protocol, but it's a step in the right direction

Cardinals play MNF so he does have an extra day

given how clearing the protocol went for DeVonta Smith (PHI) and Malik Nabers (NYG) I am dubious he'll suit up
I was thinking the opposite, that I'd be surprised if Harrison doesn't play.

Neither Smith nor Nabers (who really is an entirely different thing, as he seemed to have possibly suffered 2 separate concussions) practiced at all the week after they got hurt. Harrison was doing non-contact stuff from practice #1.
 
spotted wearing his regular red jersey at practice Friday

as opposed to the yellow non-contact jersey he was sporting Thursday

he is still in the league's concussion protocol, but it's a step in the right direction

Cardinals play MNF so he does have an extra day

given how clearing the protocol went for DeVonta Smith (PHI) and Malik Nabers (NYG) I am dubious he'll suit up
I was thinking the opposite, that I'd be surprised if Harrison doesn't play.

Neither Smith nor Nabers (who really is an entirely different thing, as he seemed to have possibly suffered 2 separate concussions) practiced at all the week after they got hurt. Harrison was doing non-contact stuff from practice #1.
Hope you're right, I have so many injuries I may not have a choice
 
spotted wearing his regular red jersey at practice Friday

as opposed to the yellow non-contact jersey he was sporting Thursday

he is still in the league's concussion protocol, but it's a step in the right direction

Cardinals play MNF so he does have an extra day

given how clearing the protocol went for DeVonta Smith (PHI) and Malik Nabers (NYG) I am dubious he'll suit up
I was thinking the opposite, that I'd be surprised if Harrison doesn't play.

Neither Smith nor Nabers (who really is an entirely different thing, as he seemed to have possibly suffered 2 separate concussions) practiced at all the week after they got hurt. Harrison was doing non-contact stuff from practice #1.
Hope you're right, I have so many injuries I may not have a choice

Yeah if I don’t plug someone in Sunday, my MNF options for the Flex are MHJ or Kimani Vidal (6 touches Wk 6)
 
spotted wearing his regular red jersey at practice Friday

as opposed to the yellow non-contact jersey he was sporting Thursday

he is still in the league's concussion protocol, but it's a step in the right direction

Cardinals play MNF so he does have an extra day

given how clearing the protocol went for DeVonta Smith (PHI) and Malik Nabers (NYG) I am dubious he'll suit up
I was thinking the opposite, that I'd be surprised if Harrison doesn't play.

Neither Smith nor Nabers (who really is an entirely different thing, as he seemed to have possibly suffered 2 separate concussions) practiced at all the week after they got hurt. Harrison was doing non-contact stuff from practice #1.
Hope you're right, I have so many injuries I may not have a choice

Yeah if I don’t plug someone in Sunday, my MNF options for the Flex are MHJ or Kimani Vidal (6 touches Wk 6)
Marvin is cleared so you no longer have to worry about it for him playing you have to worry more about how he has scored almost nothing the past 2 weeks.
 
spotted wearing his regular red jersey at practice Friday

as opposed to the yellow non-contact jersey he was sporting Thursday

he is still in the league's concussion protocol, but it's a step in the right direction

Cardinals play MNF so he does have an extra day

given how clearing the protocol went for DeVonta Smith (PHI) and Malik Nabers (NYG) I am dubious he'll suit up
I was thinking the opposite, that I'd be surprised if Harrison doesn't play.

Neither Smith nor Nabers (who really is an entirely different thing, as he seemed to have possibly suffered 2 separate concussions) practiced at all the week after they got hurt. Harrison was doing non-contact stuff from practice #1.
Hope you're right, I have so many injuries I may not have a choice

Yeah if I don’t plug someone in Sunday, my MNF options for the Flex are MHJ or Kimani Vidal (6 touches Wk 6)
Marvin is cleared so you no longer have to worry about it for him playing you have to worry more about how he has scored almost nothing the past 2 weeks.
So true
 
spotted wearing his regular red jersey at practice Friday

as opposed to the yellow non-contact jersey he was sporting Thursday

he is still in the league's concussion protocol, but it's a step in the right direction

Cardinals play MNF so he does have an extra day

given how clearing the protocol went for DeVonta Smith (PHI) and Malik Nabers (NYG) I am dubious he'll suit up
I was thinking the opposite, that I'd be surprised if Harrison doesn't play.

Neither Smith nor Nabers (who really is an entirely different thing, as he seemed to have possibly suffered 2 separate concussions) practiced at all the week after they got hurt. Harrison was doing non-contact stuff from practice #1.
Hope you're right, I have so many injuries I may not have a choice

Yeah if I don’t plug someone in Sunday, my MNF options for the Flex are MHJ or Kimani Vidal (6 touches Wk 6)
Marvin is cleared so you no longer have to worry about it for him playing you have to worry more about how he has scored almost nothing the past 2 weeks.
well, he is a rookie. I think early in this thread (or one similar) I said, its easy to draft a top rookie draft pick for 1000 yards but the reality is 700-800 yards is a really good rookie season and when you end up with that, you will be disappointed, but in reality, that rookie had a good rookie season. thats the risk. once in a while a rookie will blow the doors off and Harrison was (admittedly) a candidate for that. but hes also still playing on a pretty bad team. that never helps the stats. as an offense it is tough to get into a groove if the defense cant get off the field.
 

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