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WR Marvin Harrison Jr., ARZ (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter massraider
- Start date
Dez
Footballguy
I can count that it cost me wins that is what happens when you take 0s
I'd have him on WR1/2 borderline
irish eyes
Footballguy
One game with double digit targets this year. No game more than 5 catches. Massive disappointment, and probably worth benching if you have better wr3 on your roster. Kyler Murray is terrible on top of it.
I think Murry is at the bottom of it rather.
Wigglytuff's Gruff
Footballguy
Yeah Murray is tragic.
irish eyes
Footballguy
Why draft a WR in top 5 if you're not going to use him. No wonder they suck every year.
irish eyes
Footballguy
Agree
irish eyes
Footballguy
Sad, I am actually going to play Lockett instead of Harrison this week.
I'll be in the minority I guess, but I'd be willing to buy low on Harrison. Clearly lots of people are disappointed in him, but he's got a lot of things pointing to a potential breakout. 26% target share, 41% air yards. Kyler Murray has always been an up and down passer, and I think we could easily just be on the negative variance side of this.
Stat Correction
Footballguy
Valid points....plus, he has at least half of Marvin Harrison SR's DNA trapsing through his body. That ain't no joke.....
sheerterror
Footballguy
Thought I got a gift when someone traded me 1.2 for Burrow+ in a 1qb (high qb scoring system league). Would have been more than happy netting Nabers.
Thought I got an even bigger gift when the 1.1 went with Caleb and Marvelous Jr. fell to me. Amazing how that works out sometimes.
Thought I got an even bigger gift when the 1.1 went with Caleb and Marvelous Jr. fell to me. Amazing how that works out sometimes.
TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
I think there is culpability all around here in terms of why this passing game is off. Fact is, 190 PYG is 35 less than what Murray produced when he came back last year.
Murray has been great FF wise because his rushing has been back to elite levels, but he seems awfully rudimentary from a progressions standpoint - more than happy to take alot of underneath stuff. Petzig seems to be taking queues from peak Arthur Smith but MHJ is not making the plays when they do present themselves and IMO is actually showing a lack of toughness.
Certainly wouldn't write him off for even this season, but I do think it's in ARI's best interest to make a concerted effort to build a gameplan around feeding MHJ with a more diverse route tree and see what he does with it.
Murray has been great FF wise because his rushing has been back to elite levels, but he seems awfully rudimentary from a progressions standpoint - more than happy to take alot of underneath stuff. Petzig seems to be taking queues from peak Arthur Smith but MHJ is not making the plays when they do present themselves and IMO is actually showing a lack of toughness.
Certainly wouldn't write him off for even this season, but I do think it's in ARI's best interest to make a concerted effort to build a gameplan around feeding MHJ with a more diverse route tree and see what he does with it.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Murray's QBR rating is actually the highest of his career. Traditional QB rating 2nd highest of his career. YPA and completion percentage right on his career average.
The only thing that's really down for Murray is pass attempts. 28 per game is the lowest of his career by far.
Marvin Harrison Jr. is third in the NFL in uncatchable target rate
Just over 45 percent of Harrison Jr.’s targets have been deemed uncatchable by Pro Football Focus. Some of that is based on his usage. The Cardinals are using Harrison Jr. almost exclusively as a downfield burner. Per ESPN’s Seth Walder, three seconds into the play, Harrison Jr. is the fifth-farthest receiver downfield on average. Just above him on the list are Simi Fehoko, Jalin Hyatt, and Trey Palmer. This issue has been exacerbated by Kyler Murray’s struggles on deep throws. He has completed just 32 percent of his deep shots and is 23rd in PFF passing grade on throws 20+ yards downfield. And that’s just on the throws he is attempting.
Just over 45 percent of Harrison Jr.’s targets have been deemed uncatchable by Pro Football Focus. Some of that is based on his usage. The Cardinals are using Harrison Jr. almost exclusively as a downfield burner. Per ESPN’s Seth Walder, three seconds into the play, Harrison Jr. is the fifth-farthest receiver downfield on average. Just above him on the list are Simi Fehoko, Jalin Hyatt, and Trey Palmer. This issue has been exacerbated by Kyler Murray’s struggles on deep throws. He has completed just 32 percent of his deep shots and is 23rd in PFF passing grade on throws 20+ yards downfield. And that’s just on the throws he is attempting.
Brian Daboll is a lot better playcaller than Drew Petzig. Nabers also is more versatile than Harrison,
RaidersAreOne
Footballguy
What's the deal with MHJ?
Soulfly3
Footballguy
That's why I argued for months, long prior to the draft, that Nabers was the alpha outta college.
Really wish Odunze landed elsewhere, but maybe in a year or two he explodes too
RaidersAreOne
Footballguy
Brian Robinson Jr or MHJ ros?
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Robinson
irish eyes
Footballguy
Robinson & it's not close. Murray doesn't even look Harrison's way.
RaidersAreOne
Footballguy
Interesting, I figured most would have sided with Harrison. I have Robinson and was offered Harrison Jr. I know he's had a tough stretch but the ability is no doubt there.
What the heck gives with Murray not looking his way.
I'd be interested in Harrison+ for Robinson.
Nabers is also averaging 12 targets a game, MHJr is at 6 targets a game. NYG are #6 in passing attempts per game, ARI is #27. Night and day for offensive schemes
And the 6 targets are being originated by Kyler who isn't a for for Harrison's style of play.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
How do we know that? "Kyler who isn't a for for Harrison's style of play.".
Kurt Warner had an interesting breakdown of Murray, which suggested that the biggest issue isn't Harrison's separation, but Kyler's impatience. Several examples of Murray making reads too quickly and being too quick to leave clean pockets. Kyler left at least 75 and a TD to Harrison on the table on Monday Night.
I think we are seeing Marvin's absolute floor right now. I'd still very much argue he's a WR2 who has WR1 upside. Basically, around WR20, which is obviously not the WR8 or so he was drafted as, But I think there is some over disappointment by some in this thread.
He has 43 targets, 20 catches, 300 yards and 4 TD's. That's a pace for 121 targets, 57 catches, 850 yards, and 11 TDs.
Because Kyler isnt throwing the deep ball well enough and isnt syncing with MHJr
irish eyes
Footballguy
What a waste of a high draft pick by the pathetic Cardinals. Another whopping 3 targets so far today, lol
irish eyes
Footballguy
Absolutely mystifying, just zero involvement in the game. The 3rd string RB has as many targets.
Wigglytuff's Gruff
Footballguy
They are multiple scores ahead and running the ball with relative ease.
Why are you mystified?
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Ughh...WTH is going on with the Packers DEF? Swiss cheese tonight.
eighsse2
Footballguy
At least segue into that somehow.
irish eyes
Footballguy
One game with more than 5 catches, and it was 6 catches. 3 games with more than 50 yards, horrible.
Explains his production quite a bit.x.com
x.com
hes talented. he will adapt. its just gonna take some time.Explains his production quite a bit.x.com
adapting to double coverage is one of the hardest thing a WR can do. As a rookie, its probably a harder adjustment
