WR Marvin Harrison Jr., ARZ (2 Viewers)

[FarFromHome]

Blame kyler all you want and I agree kyler stinks but mhj is more to blame IMO.

5 batted balls in the 1st half has nothing to do with Harrison. I'm not trying to defend Harrison. I'm saying Murray is playing really really bad football. At best they are equally to blame. Just bad football by both. Hell, i blame the playcaller also. They look like they have no idea what they are doing.

 

[MrSoup]

First time really tuning into a Cardinals game this year. It’s even worse than I imagined it would be.

 

[mcd]

Got me thinking about Murray's ability to support an alpha wr. Unless I'm mistaken I only see Hopkins, years ago who had a really good year. All the top wrs were really meh. Fitz. AJ Green. Etc. hmmmm

 

[Smack Tripper]

How was this guy so hyped up? Ignoring the drops (when he supposedly had amazing hands), hes not fast, hes not a good route runner, hes not a jump ball guy. What exactly is he good at?

Blame kyler all you want and I agree kyler stinks but mhj is more to blame IMO.

If he was named Mike Harrison he would have been a second rounder

Come on. He was amazing in college. Something changed between then and now.

I did not see the hype in college myself, look at a that WR room he was in. He vanished in a few big games then.

They treated him like Calvin Johnson coming out of GT, he was more like Keyshawn, another guy who rode hype to the top of the draft without much of an NFL game

 

[oswizzle]

Gator Palms

 

[gruecd]

Legit, what's the the floor of a player you would trade him for in dynasty?

Funny you ask. I drafted him at 1.01 last year. Just got an offer of Troy Franklin ($1/2Y), Tre Tucker ($1/3) and a 2027 first for Harrison and a 2027 3rd.

Gotta take that, right?

 

[Faust]

Underdog NFL
Minivan Marv needs a tune-up

https://x.com/underdognfl/status/1971382032728203615?s=61

 

[irish eyes]

Legit, what's the the floor of a player you would trade him for in dynasty?

Funny you ask. I drafted him at 1.01 last year. Just got an offer of Troy Franklin ($1/2Y), Tre Tucker ($1/3) and a 2027 first for Harrison and a 2027 3rd.

Gotta take that, right?

I have MHJ in dynasty and I would jump all over that deal.

 

[msudaisy26]

How was this guy so hyped up? Ignoring the drops (when he supposedly had amazing hands), hes not fast, hes not a good route runner, hes not a jump ball guy. What exactly is he good at?

Blame kyler all you want and I agree kyler stinks but mhj is more to blame IMO.

If he was named Mike Harrison he would have been a second rounder

Come on. He was amazing in college. Something changed between then and now.

I did not see the hype in college myself, look at a that WR room he was in. He vanished in a few big games then.

They treated him like Calvin Johnson coming out of GT, he was more like Keyshawn, another guy who rode hype to the top of the draft without much of an NFL game

He literally beat 2021 Georgia by himself in the playoff and when he got hurt then OSU gave up the lead. This isn't true at all. 2021 Georgia might be the best college team in the last 20 years.

 

[FarFromHome]

Man I felt the release of mental stress on the kneel down on that TD. Let's hope its his moment of the season to turn it around.

 

[jobarules]

Man I felt the release of mental stress on the kneel down on that TD. Let's hope its his moment of the season to turn it around.

Yeah that was wild. Like "Thank God I caught that"

 

[Uncle Leo]

Man I felt the release of mental stress on the kneel down on that TD. Let's hope its his moment of the season to turn it around.

Sell high?

 

[FarFromHome]

Man I felt the release of mental stress on the kneel down on that TD. Let's hope its his moment of the season to turn it around.

Yeah that was wild. Like "Thank God I caught that"

You felt it huh? I'm old. Been watching football forever. That was weird to watch. I felt his relief. Happy for him there.

 

[Harjiran]

He's got all the tools you'd want in an NFL WR but on the sidelines after yet another failed play that expression on his face reads deer in the headlights. He seems totally overwhelmed by the game at this level.

Deer in the headlights ... or eyes of the assassin? Marvin looking studly in the second half.

 

[msudaisy26]

He's got all the tools you'd want in an NFL WR but on the sidelines after yet another failed play that expression on his face reads deer in the headlights. He seems totally overwhelmed by the game at this level.

Deer in the headlights ... or eyes of the assassin? Marvin looking studly in the second half.

Hopefully he turned the corner. He has all the tools, but something was/is missing.

 

[TVT 0 N S T A]

Man I felt the release of mental stress on the kneel down on that TD. Let's hope its his moment of the season to turn it around.

Oof. Not sure that's a good thing. You could feel the mental burden being lifted off a player, as he acknowledged he was looking a little BUSTy?

I get what you are saying but also... I think I would sell Marv. Kyler sucks. Offensive line sucks. Marvin is dropping most of the passes he is getting... seems like an opportunity to duck out with a late 1st.

 

[FarFromHome]

Kyler sucks.

Yep. Maybe run the hurry up starting in the 1st quarter is the solution. Murray looked absolutely lost for 3 quarters.

 

[ponchsox]

Looked really ugly in the first half but whew, I’ll take it.

 

[Faust]

Marvin Harrison Jr.'s struggles continue with a huge drop, but he rebounds with a TD

 

[EBF]

How was this guy so hyped up? Ignoring the drops (when he supposedly had amazing hands), hes not fast, hes not a good route runner, hes not a jump ball guy. What exactly is he good at?

Blame kyler all you want and I agree kyler stinks but mhj is more to blame IMO.

Here is my analysis of him from my rookie thread last year:

WR Marvin Harrison Jr., Cardinals - My attitude towards him is similar to my attitude towards Bijan last year. I like him, but I don't think he's as otherworldly as I would've hoped. When you see a WR with crazy stats picked in the top 5 of the draft, you hope to see freakish. Harrison isn't freakish though. He's not Owens, Moss, Andre, Calvin, Julio, or Tyreek who can overwhelm with athleticism. He's more of a technician. People are going to compare him to Fitzgerald, but he lacks the same size and strength. From a style standpoint, let's say he's somewhere between Reggie Wayne and CeeDee Lamb. That's still a promising outlook. He's very fluid in his routes with economical movement. He has a long frame and catches the ball well. He has above average speed and can separate downfield. There are no glaring flaws in his game and he appears to be a safe projection to become a high end NFL starter. The negatives are the lack of obvious elite physical tools. He's fast, but not freakishly so. His play strength is just above average and his RAC is nothing special. He should be good. He might be great, but it will be more workmanlike. More Reggie Wayne or AJ Green than Randy Moss.

I'm surprised that he hasn't been better in the NFL so far. At the same time, the idea that he had "all the tools" was never accurate. He was never in the Andre Johnson/Julio Jones class as an athletic talent. He never had freaky speed or strength. The bull case pointed towards an outcome like Reggie Wayne, AJ Green, or CeeDee Lamb where he wins with crisp routes, reliable hands, and sneaky separation skills. The idea that he was some generational talent had no basis in reality.

Sometimes high-profile prospects pick up so much momentum that people just sort of turn off the critical part of their brains and overlook glaring issues. We saw this with Reggie Bush (small/no power), Darren McFadden (thin/straight-line/no moves), and Leonard Fournette (no agility/elusiveness). We see a guy with a few NFL level traits dominating at a major program and we drink the Kool-Aid, even if there are some holes in the story if you look closer.

The draft process is an inexact science and there are obvious positives/negatives to nitpick in hindsight with every player ever, so we can't pretend it was obvious that MHJ was this overrated, but we can say that the raw talent was overstated all along. Line him up next to Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, Randy Moss, or Julio Jones and try to argue with a straight face that his raw athletic ability is on that level. It never was. That's not news. The "good" version of MHJ was always going to be more like a Wayne or Green.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Man I felt the release of mental stress on the kneel down on that TD. Let's hope its his moment of the season to turn it around.

Let's talk about that because I echo the sell high comment of others in redraft
He had about 18 pts on the night, not everyone watches TNF like the Shark Pool

-He looked awful and the kneel down in the end zone was a bit much for me, there's some maturity issues sprouting up and I'm not sure Murray is the right QB for him
I would take calls or offers on him, I would try and see what I could package him with for a more reliable player
The Cards offense was lousy for the most part tonight, down 20-6 midway into the 4th and they finally showed a pulse
They wasted so many drives, I have Murray across multiple leagues, he did OK overall for FF but in NFL reality he didn't look like a very good QB

 

[FarFromHome]

Man I felt the release of mental stress on the kneel down on that TD. Let's hope its his moment of the season to turn it around.

Let's talk about that because I echo the sell high comment of others in redraft
He had about 18 pts on the night, not everyone watches TNF like the Shark Pool

-He looked awful and the kneel down in the end zone was a bit much for me, there's some maturity issues sprouting up and I'm not sure Murray is the right QB for him
I would take calls or offers on him, I would try and see what I could package him with for a more reliable player
The Cards offense was lousy for the most part tonight, down 20-6 midway into the 4th and they finally showed a pulse
They wasted so many drives, I have Murray across multiple leagues, he did OK overall for FF but in NFL reality he didn't look like a very good QB

I agree with everything your saying. All of it. I own one share. I'll stew on it for a couple days. I think I can absolutely convince myself to sell that one share. I just feel like the return id get doesn't have his upside. I guess part of me still believes, but man Murray is bad. Imo

 

[Ray_T]

How was this guy so hyped up? Ignoring the drops (when he supposedly had amazing hands), hes not fast, hes not a good route runner, hes not a jump ball guy. What exactly is he good at?

Blame kyler all you want and I agree kyler stinks but mhj is more to blame IMO.

Here is my analysis of him from my rookie thread last year:

WR Marvin Harrison Jr., Cardinals - My attitude towards him is similar to my attitude towards Bijan last year. I like him, but I don't think he's as otherworldly as I would've hoped. When you see a WR with crazy stats picked in the top 5 of the draft, you hope to see freakish. Harrison isn't freakish though. He's not Owens, Moss, Andre, Calvin, Julio, or Tyreek who can overwhelm with athleticism. He's more of a technician. People are going to compare him to Fitzgerald, but he lacks the same size and strength. From a style standpoint, let's say he's somewhere between Reggie Wayne and CeeDee Lamb. That's still a promising outlook. He's very fluid in his routes with economical movement. He has a long frame and catches the ball well. He has above average speed and can separate downfield. There are no glaring flaws in his game and he appears to be a safe projection to become a high end NFL starter. The negatives are the lack of obvious elite physical tools. He's fast, but not freakishly so. His play strength is just above average and his RAC is nothing special. He should be good. He might be great, but it will be more workmanlike. More Reggie Wayne or AJ Green than Randy Moss.

I'm surprised that he hasn't been better in the NFL so far. At the same time, the idea that he had "all the tools" was never accurate. He was never in the Andre Johnson/I Julio Jones class as an athletic talent. He never had freaky speed or strength. The bull case pointed towards an outcome like Reggie Wayne, AJ Green, or CeeDee Lamb where he wins with crisp routes, reliable hands, and sneaky separation skills. The idea that he was some generational talent had no basis in reality.

Sometimes high-profile prospects pick up so much momentum that people just sort of turn off the critical part of their brains and overlook glaring issues. We saw this with Reggie Bush (small/no power), Darren McFadden (thin/straight-line/no moves), and Leonard Fournette (no agility/elusiveness). We see a guy with a few NFL level traits dominating at a major program and we drink the Kool-Aid, even if there are some holes in the story if you look closer.

The draft process is an inexact science and there are obvious positives/negatives to nitpick in hindsight with every player ever, so we can't pretend it was obvious that MHJ was this overrated, but we can say that the raw talent was overstated all along. Line him up next to Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, Randy Moss, or Julio Jones and try to argue with a straight face that his raw athletic ability is on that level. It never was. That's not news. The "good" version of MHJ was always going to be more like a Wayne or Green.

I saw a similar skillset to London when he first came into the NFL and it took him a couple years to get to a point where hes playing the way he needs to.

catch radius is great. could be a little better at gaining separation when running his routes.

I think he will be ok eventually. Not sure he will ever be the dominating WR1 everyone wanted him to be, but he will be a very good WR2 or an average WR1.

keep in mind a lot of WR take 2-3 years to fully come into their own after being drafted. I still believe that. but I'd buy low on him if I got a chance. now is the time.

 

[EBF]

How was this guy so hyped up? Ignoring the drops (when he supposedly had amazing hands), hes not fast, hes not a good route runner, hes not a jump ball guy. What exactly is he good at?

Blame kyler all you want and I agree kyler stinks but mhj is more to blame IMO.

Here is my analysis of him from my rookie thread last year:

WR Marvin Harrison Jr., Cardinals - My attitude towards him is similar to my attitude towards Bijan last year. I like him, but I don't think he's as otherworldly as I would've hoped. When you see a WR with crazy stats picked in the top 5 of the draft, you hope to see freakish. Harrison isn't freakish though. He's not Owens, Moss, Andre, Calvin, Julio, or Tyreek who can overwhelm with athleticism. He's more of a technician. People are going to compare him to Fitzgerald, but he lacks the same size and strength. From a style standpoint, let's say he's somewhere between Reggie Wayne and CeeDee Lamb. That's still a promising outlook. He's very fluid in his routes with economical movement. He has a long frame and catches the ball well. He has above average speed and can separate downfield. There are no glaring flaws in his game and he appears to be a safe projection to become a high end NFL starter. The negatives are the lack of obvious elite physical tools. He's fast, but not freakishly so. His play strength is just above average and his RAC is nothing special. He should be good. He might be great, but it will be more workmanlike. More Reggie Wayne or AJ Green than Randy Moss.

I'm surprised that he hasn't been better in the NFL so far. At the same time, the idea that he had "all the tools" was never accurate. He was never in the Andre Johnson/I Julio Jones class as an athletic talent. He never had freaky speed or strength. The bull case pointed towards an outcome like Reggie Wayne, AJ Green, or CeeDee Lamb where he wins with crisp routes, reliable hands, and sneaky separation skills. The idea that he was some generational talent had no basis in reality.

Sometimes high-profile prospects pick up so much momentum that people just sort of turn off the critical part of their brains and overlook glaring issues. We saw this with Reggie Bush (small/no power), Darren McFadden (thin/straight-line/no moves), and Leonard Fournette (no agility/elusiveness). We see a guy with a few NFL level traits dominating at a major program and we drink the Kool-Aid, even if there are some holes in the story if you look closer.

The draft process is an inexact science and there are obvious positives/negatives to nitpick in hindsight with every player ever, so we can't pretend it was obvious that MHJ was this overrated, but we can say that the raw talent was overstated all along. Line him up next to Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, Randy Moss, or Julio Jones and try to argue with a straight face that his raw athletic ability is on that level. It never was. That's not news. The "good" version of MHJ was always going to be more like a Wayne or Green.

I saw a similar skillset to London when he first came into the NFL and it took him a couple years to get to a point where hes playing the way he needs to.

catch radius is great. could be a little better at gaining separation when running his routes.

I think he will be ok eventually. Not sure he will ever be the dominating WR1 everyone wanted him to be, but he will be a very good WR2 or an average WR1.

keep in mind a lot of WR take 2-3 years to fully come into their own after being drafted. I still believe that. but I'd buy low on him if I got a chance. now is the time.

I wouldn't bury him yet. I think there's a route to a productive career still. It's clear that even if his talent was overstated, he's also not playing up to his full potential.

In terms of the London comparison, I'd say London being 10 pounds heavier is important for what they can do on the field. People see 6'3"/209 for Harrison and think he's a "big" receiver because of the height, but really he doesn't have much physicality. He is lean for the role. Average play strength. That's why I look to Lamb, Green, and Wayne for parallels. They had length, but relied on finesse to win. They were not particularly physical receivers. I think London is in the tradition of Fitz/Marshall/VJax where the physicality is more apparent. If I remember correctly, Marshall was my comp for him coming into the league.

 

[Ilov80s]

Legit, what's the the floor of a player you would trade him for in dynasty?

Funny you ask. I drafted him at 1.01 last year. Just got an offer of Troy Franklin ($1/2Y), Tre Tucker ($1/3) and a 2027 first for Harrison and a 2027 3rd.

Gotta take that, right?

As someone who doesn’t have any Harrison in dynasty, I don’t think I would make offer for him so yeah probably.

 

[WVU Alum]

I noticed over the course of the game that he would leave his mouthpiece out when the play was designed to go away from him or a lot of the time when it was a rushing play.

 

[smbkrypt24]

I noticed over the course of the game that he would leave his mouthpiece out when the play was designed to go away from him or a lot of the time when it was a rushing play.

If you noticed that, the defense is certainly seeing that. That is not good.

 

[habsfan]

I noticed over the course of the game that he would leave his mouthpiece out when the play was designed to go away from him or a lot of the time when it was a rushing play.

I can't remember who it was now but on Sunday (watching Redzone) I noticed a RB playing with his mouthpiece dangling from his helmet. I thought it was really weird but maybe it's just something I just hadn't noticed before that is more common than you'd think? I'll be watching for it more now likely.

 

[Grahamburn]

They’re necklaces at this point. Most guys don’t put them in.

Harrison didn’t have it in on his TD grab and that play was designed for him.

BTW it’s amazing what can happen when you play on time, Kyler. Hit your drop. Throw the ball.

 

[pinkstapler]

Harmon and Koh touched on MHJ in a recent pod and talked on a few things with his rookie year; really pointing out it's a three pronged issue and really all three of the problems play off of eachother. This thread touched on his own issues quite a bit, namely with separation, ability to attack the ball at the catch point, attacking WRs at the break points of routes (especially down the field routes), and the fact he doesn't play super fast (kind of confirms why he may not have tested at the combine).

But much of that can tie back to how the coaching staff used him. In college he not only didn't have many issues with separating, but it was one of his strengths. And he was never some size/speed freak. So why the staff had him play almost all his snaps at X, and had him running as many 9s as they did is beyond me. It definitely contributes to some of the poor separation scores. He also had almost no "easy"/get the ball in his hands routes. He ran few slants, almost no digs, and Harmons sample size had him running only 1 screen. Terrible on the staff tbh.

And then the third issue; one which keeps me low on MHJ moving forward more than anything he's done, or even the coaching staff, and that's Murray (and can sprinkle the o-line in here). Murray does not throw enough between the numbers in the intermediate part of the field; and this is where a technician style WR like MHJ eats. The easiest guess to why is he's too short and doesn't have a line that gives him enough space and time to find guys there knowing it's not as easy for him. Can dig at other things on Murray here, like his penchant for pulling and running, or even just rolling outside and making those throws to the middle of the field that much more dangerous to make. But regardless, it's shown in his passing charts that he just doesn't work that part of the game like other QBs.

So the fact the Cardinals did little to nothing to improve the line, and also didn't add another receiving weapon, especially an X who could allow MHJ to move around the formation more as well as stop wasting him on running 9 clear out routes as much; leaves me feeling not great about his outlook for this year. He still did well for a rookie, and should be able to continue improving parts of his game; but he can't redesign the offensive scheme or make Murray grow 6 inches. Hopefully Arizona can do right for him sooner than later.

Posted this a few months ago. Feels like it applies to some of the thoughts being tossed around here now.

 

[jm192]

Managed to buy 2 shares. Both in re-draft.

Offered in every league I don’t have him in.

6 for 66 does not necessarily scream stud. But he had 1 catch for 8 yards on 5 targets in the 1st half. He was 5/5 for 58 yards in the 2nd half. The TD was a really impressive catch. He had a couple of other really nice catches.

And ultimately, he’s open a lot.

 

[KellysHeroes]

To be fair... KM had hands in his face all night

 

[SayWhat?]

To be fair... KM had hands in his face all night

That will happen with more frequency when you are 5’6”.

 

[-OZ-]

he was more like Keyshawn, another guy who rode hype to the top of the draft without much of an NFL game

That’s not a horrible comp. It took Keyshawn 3 years and a much better QB to develop too.

Give Marvin a competent coach and capable QB and I still think he’s a pro bowler. Not the ultra elite.

 

[Brunell4MVP]

MH Jr and Caleb Williams strike me as similar personalities. Sat out of the combine. Great college careers. Tons of talent. But also played on college teams with a ton of talent. It's pretty clean now that they are not among the level of players that can drag everyone else to be better. They need really good coaches and players around them, and they are just another cog in the wheel more than special.

ETA ,,, heck almost forgot that Kyler Murray could be added to that same group. Though I think his problem is he doesn't seem to care about football anymore. At least to the level that's needed to be great in the NFL

 

[ponchsox]

Harrison is used to getting fed in college down field with a lot of uncontested catches. While tall, his weight is light for his size and he doesn’t seem to welcome contact. Add in a poor coaching staff and a frustrating QB and I can see why he struggles at times. He needs to learn how to carve out his role in the NFL. It won’t be nearly the same as college.

 

[Smack Tripper]

Harrison is used to getting fed in college down field with a lot of uncontested catches. While tall, his weight is light for his size and he doesn’t seem to welcome contact. Add in a poor coaching staff and a frustrating QB and I can see why he struggles at times. He needs to learn how to carve out his role in the NFL. It won’t be nearly the same as college.

Kyler is a weird QB, he's a big outlier with his height and the way he plays. On paper, MHJR should have been what he needed but he had what he needed in McBride, a big body guy in the middle to find in desperation. Not to say the Dortch's of the world were the way to go or a template to work with but you can see there's such better flow with the quick improvisation of him and Wilson to adjust to Kyler's out of pocket style.

I think MHJR with a pocket passer might have looked very different playing a more conventional style game, I just think for what he can do, he was a terrible top 10 pick. Late first to 2nd round talent so he's got a lot more spotlight

 

[Drake Hater]

Maybe Brissett will get some play at some point. Could be a boost to Harrison

 

[Faust]

Why Kyler Murray still backs Marvin Harrison Jr. despite Cardinals WR's early miscues in loss to Seahawks

 

[Boston]

Maybe Brissett will get some play at some point. Could be a boost to Harrison

As bad as Murray looks Jacoby would not be an upgrade...he is not the answer to this problem.

 

[Ray_T]

How was this guy so hyped up? Ignoring the drops (when he supposedly had amazing hands), hes not fast, hes not a good route runner, hes not a jump ball guy. What exactly is he good at?

Blame kyler all you want and I agree kyler stinks but mhj is more to blame IMO.

Here is my analysis of him from my rookie thread last year:

WR Marvin Harrison Jr., Cardinals - My attitude towards him is similar to my attitude towards Bijan last year. I like him, but I don't think he's as otherworldly as I would've hoped. When you see a WR with crazy stats picked in the top 5 of the draft, you hope to see freakish. Harrison isn't freakish though. He's not Owens, Moss, Andre, Calvin, Julio, or Tyreek who can overwhelm with athleticism. He's more of a technician. People are going to compare him to Fitzgerald, but he lacks the same size and strength. From a style standpoint, let's say he's somewhere between Reggie Wayne and CeeDee Lamb. That's still a promising outlook. He's very fluid in his routes with economical movement. He has a long frame and catches the ball well. He has above average speed and can separate downfield. There are no glaring flaws in his game and he appears to be a safe projection to become a high end NFL starter. The negatives are the lack of obvious elite physical tools. He's fast, but not freakishly so. His play strength is just above average and his RAC is nothing special. He should be good. He might be great, but it will be more workmanlike. More Reggie Wayne or AJ Green than Randy Moss.

I'm surprised that he hasn't been better in the NFL so far. At the same time, the idea that he had "all the tools" was never accurate. He was never in the Andre Johnson/I Julio Jones class as an athletic talent. He never had freaky speed or strength. The bull case pointed towards an outcome like Reggie Wayne, AJ Green, or CeeDee Lamb where he wins with crisp routes, reliable hands, and sneaky separation skills. The idea that he was some generational talent had no basis in reality.

Sometimes high-profile prospects pick up so much momentum that people just sort of turn off the critical part of their brains and overlook glaring issues. We saw this with Reggie Bush (small/no power), Darren McFadden (thin/straight-line/no moves), and Leonard Fournette (no agility/elusiveness). We see a guy with a few NFL level traits dominating at a major program and we drink the Kool-Aid, even if there are some holes in the story if you look closer.

The draft process is an inexact science and there are obvious positives/negatives to nitpick in hindsight with every player ever, so we can't pretend it was obvious that MHJ was this overrated, but we can say that the raw talent was overstated all along. Line him up next to Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, Randy Moss, or Julio Jones and try to argue with a straight face that his raw athletic ability is on that level. It never was. That's not news. The "good" version of MHJ was always going to be more like a Wayne or Green.

I saw a similar skillset to London when he first came into the NFL and it took him a couple years to get to a point where hes playing the way he needs to.

catch radius is great. could be a little better at gaining separation when running his routes.

I think he will be ok eventually. Not sure he will ever be the dominating WR1 everyone wanted him to be, but he will be a very good WR2 or an average WR1.

keep in mind a lot of WR take 2-3 years to fully come into their own after being drafted. I still believe that. but I'd buy low on him if I got a chance. now is the time.

I wouldn't bury him yet. I think there's a route to a productive career still. It's clear that even if his talent was overstated, he's also not playing up to his full potential.

In terms of the London comparison, I'd say London being 10 pounds heavier is important for what they can do on the field. People see 6'3"/209 for Harrison and think he's a "big" receiver because of the height, but really he doesn't have much physicality. He is lean for the role. Average play strength. That's why I look to Lamb, Green, and Wayne for parallels. They had length, but relied on finesse to win. They were not particularly physical receivers. I think London is in the tradition of Fitz/Marshall/VJax where the physicality is more apparent. If I remember correctly, Marshall was my comp for him coming into the league.

true. but that will come over time. Most WR do gain a couple pounds each year on an NFL workout programe.

not worried about that.

like I said, I think he will be fine. he just likely needs a bit more time to come around. This is not abnormal for a young WR. the NFL game is different than the College game and there is an adjustment period. for some its quick, for some its a little longer.

 

[travdogg]

MH Jr and Caleb Williams strike me as similar personalities. Sat out of the combine. Great college careers. Tons of talent. But also played on college teams with a ton of talent. It's pretty clean now that they are not among the level of players that can drag everyone else to be better. They need really good coaches and players around them, and they are just another cog in the wheel more than special.

ETA ,,, heck almost forgot that Kyler Murray could be added to that same group. Though I think his problem is he doesn't seem to care about football anymore. At least to the level that's needed to be great in the NFL

I don't think we can say that about Caleb Williams at all. Dude went into about as bad a situation as any rookie QB in recent history in Chicago. Awful OC, lame duck HC, super tough division, where all the other 3 teams were playoff teams.

Caleb also CARRIED a bad USC team, that had nothing around him. They won 4 games the year before he got there, he shows up, they win 11.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I noticed over the course of the game that he would leave his mouthpiece out when the play was designed to go away from him or a lot of the time when it was a rushing play.

I can't remember who it was now but on Sunday (watching Redzone) I noticed a RB playing with his mouthpiece dangling from his helmet. I thought it was really weird but maybe it's just something I just hadn't noticed before that is more common than you'd think? I'll be watching for it more now likely.

A lot of guys never or rarely actually put them in. Caleb Williams even chews on the end of his like a lollipop instead of actually using it.

 

[menobrown]

I can’t recall the last time I was legit happy to see a player do well. In the second half of course.

Has nothing to do with fantasy. Seems like a good dude under the massive weight of expectations. Was really happy to see him show the mental toughness to pull himself up from his miserable start.

I won’t say never or it’s impossible but I still remain dubious he’s ever going to be the player a lot of us thought he could be coming into the league.

I see some comps for him here and the one I’d go with is imagine a world where Mike Williams stayed healthy but instead of Rivers or Herbert throwing to him he had Kyler instead. Mike in his day was better at contested catches but I think MHJ gets there.

 

[Ray_T]

MH Jr and Caleb Williams strike me as similar personalities. Sat out of the combine. Great college careers. Tons of talent. But also played on college teams with a ton of talent. It's pretty clean now that they are not among the level of players that can drag everyone else to be better. They need really good coaches and players around them, and they are just another cog in the wheel more than special.

ETA ,,, heck almost forgot that Kyler Murray could be added to that same group. Though I think his problem is he doesn't seem to care about football anymore. At least to the level that's needed to be great in the NFL

I don't think we can say that about Caleb Williams at all. Dude went into about as bad a situation as any rookie QB in recent history in Chicago. Awful OC, lame duck HC, super tough division, where all the other 3 teams were playoff teams.

Caleb also CARRIED a bad USC team, that had nothing around him. They won 4 games the year before he got there, he shows up, they win 11.

I agree. its too early to throw the towel in on Caleb.

he has shown flashes that make you think he could be a player. Most importantly, he looks after the football. And a lot of rookies who get benched have an issue there.

Not saying hes doing great, but hes also not doing badly. The only reason people are cheezed is because he was a #1 overall pick in the NFL draft and lots of you overdrafted him based on that hype. The reality is, if you are a first round pick its not a guarantee of a high producing career. its just a guarantee that the player will give given a chance to start early in their career. Predicting which ones will be a star and which ones wont is not as easy as we all think. if it was that easy we'd all be picking the right QB straight out of college.

and I know that hasnt happened.

most first round QB it takes about 3 years as a starter before you truly know who that guy is as a quarterback and we are not even halfway through that process.

and No I am not saying any of you are right or wrong. I'm saying its too early to call it yet.

 

[FarFromHome]

If I broke a rule by posting this I'm sorry in advance. I'll take the post delete like an adult. This just made me laugh.

Chat GPT Memes + AI Art on Instagram: "Kyler Murray is frustrated with his teammates after a 2nd straight loss on a last second kick. The diminutive Kyler specifically calls out his receiver Marvin Harrison Jr for causing 2 interceptions, and his off

In a heated rant, Kyler Murray criticizes his teammates for their performance on the field, citing Marvin Harrison Jr's dropped interceptions and the team's inability to protect their quarterback. The Arizona Cardinals are looking to bounce back from their 2nd straight loss and get back on track.

www.instagram.com

 

[efactor]

If I broke a rule by posting this I'm sorry in advance. I'll take the post delete like an adult. This just made me laugh.

Chat GPT Memes + AI Art on Instagram: "Kyler Murray is frustrated with his teammates after a 2nd straight loss on a last second kick. The diminutive Kyler specifically calls out his receiver Marvin Harrison Jr for causing 2 interceptions, and his off

In a heated rant, Kyler Murray criticizes his teammates for their performance on the field, citing Marvin Harrison Jr's dropped interceptions and the team's inability to protect their quarterback. The Arizona Cardinals are looking to bounce back from their 2nd straight loss and get back on track.

www.instagram.com

Well, good thing Kyler is such a great player with a Tom Brady like commitment to being the best he can be. It allows him to be critical of his teammates without them having any animosity towards him.

Good luck in your Call of Duty tournament today Kyler!

 

[Pip's Invitation]

Man I felt the release of mental stress on the kneel down on that TD. Let's hope its his moment of the season to turn it around.

Let's talk about that because I echo the sell high comment of others in redraft
He had about 18 pts on the night, not everyone watches TNF like the Shark Pool

-He looked awful and the kneel down in the end zone was a bit much for me, there's some maturity issues sprouting up and I'm not sure Murray is the right QB for him
I would take calls or offers on him, I would try and see what I could package him with for a more reliable player
The Cards offense was lousy for the most part tonight, down 20-6 midway into the 4th and they finally showed a pulse
They wasted so many drives, I have Murray across multiple leagues, he did OK overall for FF but in NFL reality he didn't look like a very good QB

I’m not sure Murray is the right QB for anybody.

 

[Faust]

Marvin Harrison Jr. looking forward to "special game" in Indianapolis this week

 

[efactor]

The Arizona OC says he "probably" made a mistake by not getting Marvin Jr the ball more in Sundays loss against the previously winless Titans.

Ya think? 5 targets and he was 4/98 and you lost to the friggin Titans because you didn't make sure Harrison and McBride got a minimum of 10 targets each. Should be like that every game.