Yale student screams in anger at professor over halloween costumes (1 Viewer)

[CletiusMaximus]

This is a really interesting read. It's about more than the Yale Halloween thing, but it touches on that, so I guess this is as good a place as any to post it.

A Conversation with Jonathan Haidt.

Of course the real problem is not how many or what percentage of professors are liberal/conservative.

The real problem is when those people allow their own biases to influence their instruction.

Of course teachers' biases will influence their instruction. I can't image its possible to avoid that.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Speaking as an academic economist, I especially dislike the idea of having a course on Ayn Rand shoved down my department's throat.

What?

I think Rand was an underrated philosopher when graded on a curve with other twentieth-century philosophers and should perhaps get more attention in certain philosophy courses than she does.

But I can't think of any reason to mention her in an economics course at all. She had opinions about economic issues, but so does Robert Reich. The point of treating economics as a science is that mere opinions don't really matter.

 

[rockaction]

Speaking as an academic economist, I especially dislike the idea of having a course on Ayn Rand shoved down my department's throat.

What?

I think Rand was an underrated philosopher when graded on a curve with other twentieth-century philosophers and should perhaps get more attention in certain philosophy courses than she does.

But I can't think of any reason to mention her in an economics course at all. She had opinions about economic issues, but so does Robert Reich. The point of treating economics as a science is that mere opinions don't really matter.

Interesting. If her acolytes weren't so obnoxious, she would get more attention. And if Zamyatin hadn't trumped Anthem, she also would.

But that's a quibble. Your point is taken on my end, and I think she deserves a hearing.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

There are also conservative donors forcing academic departments to teach conservative curricula, which is vastly more troubling. In North Carolina, the state's conservative politicians have taken over the responsibility of setting university policy and have closed departments focused on the environment and as well as the Center on Poverty, and are openly selling the ability to revise the curriculum and teaching positions in exchange for donations.

I see stuff like this as an especially extreme example of state leaders (and a few folks on the national level, like Rubio) undermining higher education in general and the liberal arts in particular. Over the past year or two, psychology, anthropology, French literature, and philosophy have all gotten called out as being -- in essence -- worthless and undeserving of state support. I'm a strong supporter of the canonical disciplines, which includes the hard sciences but also the humanities and social sciences, so you can rest assured that I share your disgust at this sort of thing.

Speaking as an academic economist, I especially dislike the idea of having a course on Ayn Rand shoved down my department's throat. My discipline already has plenty of intellectual diversity, and it doesn't need affirmative action for right-wingers. I managed to get a job in this field, after all, so obviously it must be doing something right.

It's crazy to me that this stuff doesn't get more attention. Of course there are reasons that the PC protesters get more attention even though they're far less threatening: it's easier to understand, it's funny, and old people have always loved to point and shake their heads at "these kids today." But you'd think that this stuff would at least get some play from the people who claim to be so concerned with the academic climate.

Our educational system has been a proxy battleground for some generations now. The liberals have fully occupied the ground and have won most of the battles for quite some time. The conservatives are now belatedly and ineffectively pushing back and making very tiny inroads. (the perception of the magnitude of any inroads is of course relative to where one sits or stands politically) Me, I would wish that these battles were not fought at all. I wish fact and objective truth were all that was taught instead of propaganda and indoctrination also. Here's the thing, I am not sure what objective truth is. I am damn sure that those with agendas from either side would argue, insincerely or sincerely but mistakenly, that they are serving up truth. The best I can hope for is that our students will be able to find matters of value to them, and that they will be exposed to a wide range of thought, those that match my beliefs and opposing thought as well. My only fear is that educational opportunity become too narrow. I know of no other way than to trust that the young, who I have a difficult time trusting and understanding, will find their way in spite of us.

Best of luck to our present and future students.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Speaking as an academic economist, I especially dislike the idea of having a course on Ayn Rand shoved down my department's throat.

What?

I think Rand was an underrated philosopher when graded on a curve with other twentieth-century philosophers and should perhaps get more attention in certain philosophy courses than she does.

But I can't think of any reason to mention her in an economics course at all. She had opinions about economic issues, but so does Robert Reich. The point of treating economics as a science is that mere opinions don't really matter.

Interesting. If her acolytes weren't so obnoxious, she would get more attention. And if Zamyatin hadn't trumped Anthem, she also would.

But that's a quibble. Your point is taken on my end, and I think she deserves a hearing.

Don't take my comment as an endorsement of Rand so much as a lack of enthusiasm about Heidegger, Derrida, Sartre, and Foucault.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

This is a really interesting read. It's about more than the Yale Halloween thing, but it touches on that, so I guess this is as good a place as any to post it.

A Conversation with Jonathan Haidt.

Of course the real problem is not how many or what percentage of professors are liberal/conservative.

The real problem is when those people allow their own biases to influence their instruction.

Of course teachers' biases will influence their instruction. I can't image its possible to avoid that.

Obviously it will creep in to an extent. But there is absolutely no reason for a professor's/teacher's own biases to overtly influence their instruction.

 

[rockaction]

Speaking as an academic economist, I especially dislike the idea of having a course on Ayn Rand shoved down my department's throat.

What?

I think Rand was an underrated philosopher when graded on a curve with other twentieth-century philosophers and should perhaps get more attention in certain philosophy courses than she does.

But I can't think of any reason to mention her in an economics course at all. She had opinions about economic issues, but so does Robert Reich. The point of treating economics as a science is that mere opinions don't really matter.

Interesting. If her acolytes weren't so obnoxious, she would get more attention. And if Zamyatin hadn't trumped Anthem, she also would.

But that's a quibble. Your point is taken on my end, and I think she deserves a hearing.

Don't take my comment as an endorsement of Rand so much as a lack of enthusiasm about Heidegger, Derrida, Sartre, and Foucault.

To the gas chambers go?

I agree with what you're saying. But I think Foucault deserves a second listen, too. I'd like to read him more. I think I might, but can't comment intelligently about him at this time.

 

[Steve Tasker]

Triumph

I don't know how these kids aren't laughing the entire time.

 

[rockaction]

Triumph

I don't know how these kids aren't laughing the entire time.

That's why ### Like That off of Encore by Eminem was one of the songs of the year, but I got ripped for starting a thread about it. That Oxy-addled album was awesome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um4-d7VzZiE

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

This is a really interesting read. It's about more than the Yale Halloween thing, but it touches on that, so I guess this is as good a place as any to post it.

A Conversation with Jonathan Haidt.

Of course the real problem is not how many or what percentage of professors are liberal/conservative.

The real problem is when those people allow their own biases to influence their instruction.

Of course teachers' biases will influence their instruction. I can't image its possible to avoid that.

Obviously it will creep in to an extent. But there is absolutely no reason for a professor's/teacher's own biases to overtly influence their instruction.

True, if they are teaching one of a multitude of intellectual positions the professor recognizes. On the other hand if they believe they are imparting a moral imperative, well then perhaps all bets are off. We have all seen some examples of the latter. How prevalent that viewpoint is I cannot say.

 

[Higgs]

There have been a lot of studies recently on the overwhelming number of Liberal professors in Higher Ed, especially in the social sciences area. The Inbar study that follows shows that those with Conservative ideologies on social issues amount to only 4%. http://yoelinbar.net/papers/political_diversity.pdf

There are other surveys showing a shockingly high number of Liberal professors openly admitting that they'd discriminate against Conservatives. http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/aug/1/liberal-majority-on-campus-yes-were-biased/?page=all

It's a big problem right now and I don't know how it gets solved. One thing's for sure - the colleges themselves don't seem capable of diversifying.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Breaking: University Of Texas Police Give Preacher Citation For Offending Students.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Breaking: University Of Texas Police Give Preacher Citation For Offending Students.

good lord (no pun intended)

 

[Higgs]

Breaking: University Of Texas Police Give Preacher Citation For Offending Students.

The good news is the citation was later revoked, and that the officer is in training. But the fact that even a police officer in training doesn't understand the 1st Amendment is troubling.

 

[Higgs]

I just thought of something - isn't freedom of speech a civil right? Then couldn't denying someone that civil right someday be the subject of a courtroom proceeding? Just wondering if it's even conceivable that colleges could be taken to court someday over some of this stuff. Like I said earlier, it seems like some sort of outside force is going to be necessary to remedy the situation. Would be interested to hear some thoughts on this from the lawyers in the house.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

I just thought of something - isn't freedom of speech a civil right? Then couldn't denying someone that civil right someday be the subject of a courtroom proceeding? Just wondering if it's even conceivable that colleges could be taken to court someday over some of this stuff. Like I said earlier, it seems like some sort of outside force is going to be necessary to remedy the situation. Would be interested to hear some thoughts on this from the lawyers in the house.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Breaking: University Of Texas Police Give Preacher Citation For Offending Students.

I remember Brother Jeb, and his better half, Disco Queen Sister Cindy from back in the 70's. He was great amusement. He did manage to get some folks hot under the collar. I never understood why folks would let him bother them. To me he was comedy, nothing more. I invited him to Dinner in Madison Wisconsin back in maybe 1979 or 80. He came. He condemned me roundly throughout the evening, thanked me for a delicious meal, and left. It was everything I hoped for and more.

 

[Higgs]

I guess I wasn't specific enough. I'm wondering if a University could ever be sued for creating a climate where a group of people (conservatives in this case) face various forms of discrimination. That could include both professors and students. The professor piece would be easier to prove. If conservatives are consistently not promoted, etc. The student piece would be more difficult as the damages would be more subtle and harder to prove. Just thinking out loud. Bored and home sick in bed.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Breaking: University Of Texas Police Give Preacher Citation For Offending Students.

The good news is the citation was later revoked, and that the officer is in training. But the fact that even a police officer in training doesn't understand the 1st Amendment is troubling.

Sure, it would be great if campus cops had a full grasp of how to draw the line between free speech rights and unlawfully disruptive behavior. But as far as troubling things about the state of law enforcement in this country are concerned, this should be pretty ####ing far down anyone's list.

 

[rockaction]

Breaking: University Of Texas Police Give Preacher Citation For Offending Students.

The good news is the citation was later revoked, and that the officer is in training. But the fact that even a police officer in training doesn't understand the 1st Amendment is troubling.

Sure, it would be great if campus cops had a full grasp of how to draw the line between free speech rights and unlawfully disruptive behavior. But as far as troubling things about the state of law enforcement in this country are concerned, this should be pretty ####ing far down anyone's list.

True, but free speech = importante.

 

[Higgs]

I can't think of many things more important than the 1st Amendment.

 

[rockaction]

I can't think of many things more important than the 1st Amendment.

An error occurred

You have reached your quota of positive votes for the day
*and incorporation!

 

[TobiasFunke]

I can't think of many things more important than the 1st Amendment.

Well then you must be very happy that this error in judgment was quickly corrected. Forgive me if I reserve my outrage for law enforcement errors in judgment resulting in loss of civil rights, liberty or even life that aren't quickly corrected.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Also- welcome back rockaction! Good to see you.

 

[rockaction]

We need to get college back to the priorities of the good old days, namely binge drinking and casual sex. Sure, we need to make some adjustments to eliminate the rapeyness, but college these days is starting to sound like a real buzzkill. Do these students have any fun at all?

What's The Matter With The Kids Today?

 

[Higgs]

I can't think of many things more important than the 1st Amendment.

Well then you must be very happy that this error in judgment was quickly corrected. Forgive me if I reserve my outrage for law enforcement errors in judgment resulting in loss of civil rights, liberty or even life that aren't quickly corrected.

No argument here on that. It's not outrage as much as it is concern. Nothing to compare to people losing their lives.

 

[rockaction]

Also- welcome back rockaction! Good to see you.

Thanks, man. Good to see you, too.

 

[Higgs]

Just did a quick search of lawsuits against Universities. Most are one-off suits where there is a clear act of discrimination, like this one - http://www.westernjournalism.com/her-college-refused-to-let-her-start-a-conservative-club-now-shes-making-them-pay/

 

[jabarony]

Breaking: University Of Texas Police Give Preacher Citation For Offending Students.

I remember Brother Jeb, and his better half, Disco Queen Sister Cindy from back in the 70's. He was great amusement. He did manage to get some folks hot under the collar. I never understood why folks would let him bother them. To me he was comedy, nothing more. I invited him to Dinner in Madison Wisconsin back in maybe 1979 or 80. He came. He condemned me roundly throughout the evening, thanked me for a delicious meal, and left. It was everything I hoped for and more.

1. I didn't know he was famous and national. When he visited my campus in the late 90s, I figured he was just a local (hilarious) nutjob. 98% of the students were amused. There were 2 or 3 who took the bait and raged back at him. Looks like it's closer to 50/50 of today's kids feeling the outrage. 2. I wish I had thought of that dinner idea.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Breaking: University Of Texas Police Give Preacher Citation For Offending Students.

I remember Brother Jeb, and his better half, Disco Queen Sister Cindy from back in the 70's. He was great amusement. He did manage to get some folks hot under the collar. I never understood why folks would let him bother them. To me he was comedy, nothing more. I invited him to Dinner in Madison Wisconsin back in maybe 1979 or 80. He came. He condemned me roundly throughout the evening, thanked me for a delicious meal, and left. It was everything I hoped for and more.

1. I didn't know he was famous and national. When he visited my campus in the late 90s, I figured he was just a local (hilarious) nutjob. 98% of the students were amused. There were 2 or 3 who took the bait and raged back at him. Looks like it's closer to 50/50 of today's kids feeling the outrage.2. I wish I had thought of that dinner idea.

North Carolina has their own version of this guy, Preacher Gary, aka the Pit Preacher (the Pit is a sunken courtyard by the student union in the center of campus). He has a wikipedia entry. Apparently he's also had some run-ins with the authorities, although they were apparently trespass claims when he refused to cede space to students who'd reserved it for some purpose. During my years in Chapel Hill people used to LOVE to get into it with him. It was pretty much the school's second most popular spectator sport. I particularly enjoyed his "Homo Hill" shtick.

Are there others? Are they organized? Do they have conventions, or a union?

 

[GilbertGrape]

Breaking: University Of Texas Police Give Preacher Citation For Offending Students.

Surprising. There have always been nutjobs walking up and down the drag yelling, it gets ignored 99.99% of the time.

 

[Higgs]

How about Cliffle Knechtle - the "Give me an Answer" guy - http://givemeananswer.org/?page_id=177

For some reason this guy always fascinated me.

 

[bosoxs45]

http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/26279/

White college students are undergoing a weekly “deconstructing whiteness” program at Northwestern University.

The “6-part workshop series for undergraduate students who self-identify as white” launched in January and runs through March, according to the university’s website. Students enrolled chose to do so – it is voluntary.

A spokesman for the prestigious private university located outside Chicago declined to give The College Fix details on the program, such as how many students enrolled and how it’s been received so far.

“It’s part of Northwestern’s Social Justice Education effort to create learning opportunities for our students,” Bob Rowley, a spokesman for the campus, told The College Fix in an email, providing a link to the social justice webpage and adding: “Beyond that, we don’t have anything more for you on it.”

 

[bosoxs45]

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/432244/bowdoin-college-tequila-party-safe-space-students-offended?cV8dTI8X1PB0LPFT.01

even though the school offered offended students counseling (!) to help them deal with the fact that their classmates were drinking a kind of booze with a kind of hat on, the response just wasn’t enough for something so serious.

 

[wazoo11]

U of Chicago to Class of 2020: "we do not support so-called trigger warnings"

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/08/25/u-chicago-warns-incoming-students-not-expect-safe-spaces-or-trigger-warnings

hey all received a letter recently from John Ellison, dean of students, which went beyond the usual platitudes of such letters and made several points about what he called one of Chicago's "defining characteristics," which he said was "our commitment to freedom of inquiry and expression." Ellison said civility and respect are "vital to all of us," and people should never be harassed. But he added, "You will find that we expect members of our community to be engaged in rigorous debate, discussion and even disagreement. At times this may challenge you and even cause discomfort."

To that end, he wrote, "Our commitment to academic freedom means that we do not support so-called trigger warnings, we do not cancel invited speakers because their topics might prove controversial and we do not condone the creation of intellectual safe spaces where individuals can retreat from ideas and perspectives at odds with their own."