ZEKE SUSPENDED 6 GAMES BY NFL (2 Viewers)

[Hawkeye21]

I think the majority of people in here don't realize the value of replacement player.  If you're playing anyone remotely decent in place of Zeke in year full of solid options in the 5-7 rds,  you're likely still getting a top 8 RB at year's end.  With a top 3 rb for when it really counts.

I do get that but I don't think that those people realize how drafting him affects multiple things for your team.  If you draft him you are essentially shifting where you draft everyone else.  You're most likely wanting to draft a RB in the first round no matter what now.  Then in the second round you feel it's time to take Zeke so no one else does so not you have two rounds with only one usable player.  The third round you probably feel the need to grab your second RB because you have to make up taking Zeke but then you question yourself because you don't have a WR yet.  The entire draft is going to be based on you taking Elliott and I hate that idea.

Now that the draft is over you now move into the regular season.  You are either going to have a weak looking group of RBs or WRs starting off the season.  There's a really good chance that you waited pretty late to get both your QB and TE since you were trying to get the best RBs and WRs you could.  Hopefully you picked all the right players and haven't had any injuries within the first couple weeks.  If you make it through without any injuries you now run into bye weeks.  Now you have to decide what players you drop in order to fill positions and you have one less bench spot to work with because you have to keep Elliott there.

Finally week 8 rolls around and hopefully you made it through the gauntlet with at least a .500 record.  For me it's even harder because I play double-headers every week.  That's a lot of games I need to win.  If I make it through above .500 I've got a great shot at the playoffs and a run to the championship.  If I'm below .500 I've got a lot of catching up to do.

 

[Jed]

LOL  It's pretty clear?  What about any of this is pretty clear?

It's pretty clear that she's a liar, yes. Have you see this article?

http://deadspin.com/witness-claims-ezekiel-elliotts-girlfriend-asked-her-to-1786320742

I'm a Giants fan, and would like nothing better than Elliot be out for a while, but this smells like a railroad job to me. 

Maybe someone could tell me what I'm missing, but aren't her bruise pictures very possibly from her bar fight? 

 

[Da Gildz]

I'm not altering my draft plan at all.  I took Zeke rd 2 last night.  Freeman 1. Woodhead in the 6th.  Would have taken Woodhead there regardless.  Now instead of benching him in beginning,  I'll just be playing him now.  Or name any other decent bench RB in rds 5-7.  If you're a confident drafter, you can make it work.  Quite well even. 

 

[Hawkeye21]

It's pretty clear that she's a liar, yes. Have you see this article?

http://deadspin.com/witness-claims-ezekiel-elliotts-girlfriend-asked-her-to-1786320742

I'm a Giants fan, and would like nothing better than Elliot be out for a while, but this smells like a railroad job to me. 

Maybe someone could tell me what I'm missing, but aren't her bruise pictures very possibly from her bar fight? 

I'd like to know what the league found out to warrant the suspension they gave.  The world is a messed up place so no much would surprise me.  I could see her lying to get paid and I could see Zeke paying everyone off to keep quiet.

 

[Jed]

I'd like to know what the league found out to warrant the suspension they gave.  The world is a messed up place so no much would surprise me.  I could see her lying to get paid and I could see Zeke paying everyone off to keep quiet.

My opinion, but Rog has about zero to go on. He's trying to make an example of zero tolerance even with no real evidence because NFL popularity is slipping away from him - and he thinks player conduct is a part of the problem. NFL says the Mardi Gras video doesn't factor in very much but they can't stop referencing it in the letter. If her bruises are such damning evidence why are there no criminal charges? Rog has a God Complex.

(I can't believe I'm defending a Cowboy)

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

There are a few articles associated with "what we know", "what we don't know", etc. on the web.

The article that I think is most illuminating is here:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/cowboys/2016/10/31/ezekiel-elliott-domestic-violence-personal-conduct-policy/93076000/

Extract:

In response to questions last week from USA TODAY Sports about the case and comparisons to the NFL’s investigation, Tobias wrote in an email: “Over the course of a calendar year, there are thousands of complaints filed through our office where I truly believe the person filing the complaint is a victim of crime. But, for a significant number of them, the reality is that there is insufficient corroborating evidence to approve a criminal charge. And for those complaints that do get charges approved, many face evidentiary hurdles at trial where, as you properly noted, the burden is proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

“For the Ezekiel Elliott matter, I personally believe that there were a series of interactions between Mr. Elliott and (his accuser) where violence occurred. However, given the totality of the circumstances, I could not firmly conclude exactly what happened. Saying something happened versus having sufficient evidence to criminally charge someone are two completely different things. Charging decisions are taken very seriously and we use best efforts to conduct thorough and detailed investigations.”

Asked if he believes Elliott committed some of the violence in those interactions, Tobias declined to expand, deferring to previous emails in which he pointed out the “sole focus” of the investigation by the city attorney’s office was to determine if there was sufficient corroborating evidence to support the woman’s allegations.

These extract, and the remainder of details provided in the article, make it appear that there was more than just false accusation involved here.

However, given the uncertainty, my final takeaway is that 6 games is probably overly punitive.  Given context however....Ray Rice, Giants kicker, Deflategate, Greg Hardy, the CBA, the players union versus the league, etc etc its easy to see how the league would take this position.

 

[Hawkeye21]

My opinion, but Rog has about zero to go on. He's trying to make an example of zero tolerance even with no real evidence because NFL popularity is slipping away from him - and he thinks player conduct is a part of the problem. NFL says the Mardi Gras video doesn't factor in very much but they can't stop referencing it in the letter. If her bruises are such damning evidence why are there no criminal charges? Rog has a God Complex.

(I can't believe I'm defending a Cowboy)

I admit that I find it hard to believe a person who's been taken care of all his life and has had numerous occasions where he made very poor decisions.  I wonder how many times he screwed up and someone just took care of the problem for him just so he wouldn't get in trouble.  We see it happen with amazing athletes all the times.  This is why it wouldn't surprise me if he actually did abuse her.

On the only side I've seen enough instances where women have lied about being abused by an athlete or celebrity only so they could get paid.  It wouldn't surprise me if that was the case either and if that really is true then I think she should be punished.  Women lying about being abused only makes it that much harder for the women who truly are being abused.

I know a lot of people are falling back on the fact that police did not arrest him but did they ever say he did not actually do it or did they just say they didn't have enough evidence.  I feel like there's a difference.  One means there's still a possibility he did it and the other means they have proof he didn't do it.

 

[Koya]

My opinion, but Rog has about zero to go on. He's trying to make an example of zero tolerance even with no real evidence because NFL popularity is slipping away from him - and he thinks player conduct is a part of the problem. NFL says the Mardi Gras video doesn't factor in very much but they can't stop referencing it in the letter. If her bruises are such damning evidence why are there no criminal charges? Rog has a God Complex.

(I can't believe I'm defending a Cowboy)

Just one very simply potential explanation (confident there are more if any attys are in the house):

Perhaps they are not admissible in court. And/or perhaps the NFL has statements that verify their validity but that won't hold up in court.

many examples where we logically know someone is guilty but it either won't hit the threshold of legal truth or fact or may not be admissible in the first place

 

[Stealthycat]

Many example of women, and men, lying to gain financial advantage or payback.

There is no lawsuit because of the people that came forward saying this woman/accuser was a liar. Goodell is overlooking that for some reason, I suspect an over reaction because of the Ray Rice fiasco, so they cay say they were being pro-active on women's rights etc etc blah blah blah

The political correct world has gone bonkers - check out the USC football player who was expelled FOR DOING NOTHING WRONG and they have a lawsuit now ongoing. Just damn crazy

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4755196/Victim-girlfriend-blasts-USC-expelling-boyfriend.html

 

[Hawkeye21]

Many example of women, and men, lying to gain financial advantage or payback.

There is no lawsuit because of the people that came forward saying this woman/accuser was a liar. Goodell is overlooking that for some reason, I suspect an over reaction because of the Ray Rice fiasco, so they cay say they were being pro-active on women's rights etc etc blah blah blah

The political correct world has gone bonkers - check out the USC football player who was expelled FOR DOING NOTHING WRONG and they have a lawsuit now ongoing. Just damn crazy

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4755196/Victim-girlfriend-blasts-USC-expelling-boyfriend.html

Plenty of examples of people getting paid off to cover up things like this too.  There are still two sides to this, neither of which have enough evidence for us to know for sure.

 

[Short Corner]

But did Zeke destroy his cell phone to hide evidence from the league?

How many draft picks does Zeke have in 2018?  2019?

 

[Bojang0301]

I'm undecided at this point despite initially thinking this was typical NFL being overly heavy-handed because they can.

All I really know is that I've seen the photos and I've heard Zeke's position as "oh, she got those bruises in a bar fight".  Without additional info, the optics look bad.  So, is there other info?  Do we have third party testimony validating Zeke's explanation?  Yes, I admit to being lazy.

I was of the understanding her "friends" said she was in a bar fight. In any case, this is not a trustworthy individual. 

SVP hits it on the head: http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=20319345

To my larger point: what is a player like Pac-Man Jones even still doing in the league. They pull this stuff with Elliot including threatening banishment but PacMan spits on a female officer none the less, the guy who spawned the NFL's disciplinary program and nothing? There is something fishy when Josh Brown and PacMan get minimal punishment and TB12 and Zeke get a 3rd of their season cut. My guess would be Goodell playing favorites with owners. This has nothing to do with evidence or guilt.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Maybe this is the beginning of the end of roger....i mean he smacked down craft  & brady and now HOF jerruh....owners might just dump him now

 

[Ilov80s]

I think the majority of people in here don't realize the value of replacement player.  If you're playing anyone remotely decent in place of Zeke in year full of solid options in the 5-7 rds,  you're likely still getting a top 8 RB at year's end.  With a top 3 rb for when it really counts.

In standard last year, if you cut out Zeke's last 6 weeks from 2016, he still would have finished as RB9. If you could have replaced those 6 games with someone totally average like Darren Sproles,  the Sproles/Zeke combo have been RB3. 

 

[pantherclub]

In standard last year, if you cut out Zeke's last 6 weeks from 2016, he still would have finished as RB9. If you could have replaced those 6 games with someone totally average like Darren Sproles,  the Sproles/Zeke combo have been RB3. 

It doesn't work like that

 

[Ilov80s]

It doesn't work like that

How so?

 

[Da Gildz]

It doesn't work like that

Yea.  Huh?  That's exactly how it works.  The rb(s) you'd normally be sitting most weeks are now playing in place of him.  I took Woodhead as my RB3   You don't think that combo is a top 10 rb come years end??  I do.  PPR obv  

 

[Bronco Billy]

 It still doesn't make any sense in my mind. It's pretty clear this woman is a liar. 

That she is a liar does not mean Elliott didn't go after her.  Unless, in your mind, you think he is being suspended because ... because why exactly then? 

 

[Short Corner]

Yea.  Huh?  That's exactly how it works.  The rb(s) you'd normally be sitting most weeks are now playing in place of him.  I took Woodhead as my RB3   You don't think that combo is a top 10 rb come years end??  I do.  PPR obv  

Yep.  Last year I took Bell at 1.09 and Williams in the 8th, essentially giving up an 8th to move from 1.09 to 1.01.

 

[Bojang0301]

That she is a liar does not mean Elliott didn't go after her.  Unless, in your mind, you think he is being suspended because ... because why exactly then? 

Not sure, that's the big question/problem. Head of the investigation is a huge Giants fan. Giants got Brown off on a 1 game suspension last year, Giants got off lienient for their souvenir forgery. Coincidental. I don't think it was just the incident with her, I think his idiotic offseason aided in the 6 game and verbal, tyrannical threat from the NFL. I guess it just supremely bothers me that a POS like PacMan will be suiting up for the first six weeks and that Goodell and co. have stolen so much football from great players with very little justification. Hell Josh Gordon is still suspended for drinking 2 beers. It's ludicrous.

 

[Bronco Billy]

Not sure, that's the big question/problem. Head of the investigation is a huge Giants fan. Giants got Brown off on a 1 game suspension last year, Giants got off lienient for their souvenir forgery. Coincidental. I don't think it was just the incident with her, I think his idiotic offseason aided in the 6 game and verbal, tyrannical threat from the NFL. I guess it just supremely bothers me that a POS like PacMan will be suiting up for the first six weeks and that Goodell and co. have stolen so much football from great players with very little justification. Hell Josh Gordon is still suspended for drinking 2 beers. It's ludicrous.

Well, you certainly do form events in an interesting manner to fit your narrative.

The NFL is, if anything, extraordinarily thorough.  They also are under no obligation to share all of their findings with the general public - though I am pretty certain that they do share it with the player when notifying the player of their decision.  They will do what they deem necessary to protect their brand - which as a business is their right to do so as long as they don't violate the law when they do it.  

I will say that the NFL does not help its image if it arbitrarily suspends a star player as gifted as Elliott, taking a very exciting employee off the field and taking a publicity hit against the league overall by doing so while simultaneously make such a strong public statement.  One can't help but take the logical path and guess that they have a lot more evidence than the rest of us know about to act as they did.  That is unless you happen to be a conspiracy theorist...

.

 

[Ilov80s]

Yep.  Last year I took Bell at 1.09 and Williams in the 8th, essentially giving up an 8th to move from 1.09 to 1.01.

Yeah last 2 years Bell+Williams= the most valuable fantasy play.

 

[Bojang0301]

Well, you certainly do form events in an interesting manner to fit your narrative.

The NFL is, if anything, extraordinarily thorough.  They also are under no obligation to share all of their findings with the general public - though I am pretty certain that they do share it with the player when notifying the player of their decision.  They will do what they deem necessary to protect their brand - which as a business is their right to do so as long as they don't violate the law when they do it.  

I will say that the NFL does not help its image if it arbitrarily suspends a star player as gifted as Elliott, taking a very exciting employee off the field and taking a publicity hit against the league overall by doing so while simultaneously make such a strong public statement.  One can't help but take the logical path and guess that they have a lot more evidence than the rest of us know about to act as they did.  That is unless you happen to be a conspiracy theorist...

.

I'm not sure why you would trust the NFL organization in its competency. If anything they have proven otherwise again and again and again. Spygate, deflategate, Saints, CTE, Josh Brown, Ray Rice, Greg Hardy... no other league has this trail of incompetence and nincompoopery. But call me a conspiracy theorist, I've been called worse. 

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

I'm not sure why you would trust the NFL organization in its competency. If anything they have proven otherwise again and again and again. Spygate, deflategate, Saints, CTE, Josh Brown, Ray Rice, Greg Hardy... no other league has this trail of incompetence and nincompoopery. But call me a conspiracy theorist, I've been called worse. 

Josh Brown suspended 6 more games now.  Did he beat another woman or is this Goodell's way of telling the courts that Elliott isn't being singled out?

 

[apalmer]

Okay, Being a huge Buckeye fan and Zeke fan which Zeke is on my Contract Keeper league under contract for the next four years so I have more than a few vested interests in Zeke.

Do I think Zeke could have caused the bruises (pictured) that have been released by TMZ? Yes. Do I think he might be innocent of the charges and this could be fabricated by an ex-girlfriend that might have other motives? Yes. My problem with Zeke is with his behavior after HE knew he was being investigated for domestic violence. He decided that exposing a woman's breast on a float in public without her permission would be a good idea?? He then is in the middle of a bar fight where some guy's nose is curved in the wrong direction and there is no video evidence of this fight though the punch was rumored to be thrown from behind Zeke maybe by Zeke and maybe not. I think the exposing of the breast alone is worth a 2 game suspension for the violating the NFL code of conduct policy. You can not expose a woman's breast in public PERIOD. No matter if she was okay with it or not. He obviously did not have consent before he did it and I'm pretty sure it's not legal to do that in public anyway. Just dumb decision and there is clear evidence of this violation.

Now that all said I'm pretty sure you are innocent in this country till proven guilty. I have a big issue with no charges being filed or an indictment filed by the local prosecutor's office here in Columbus for domestic violence. Why?? Why did they choose not to file charges or an indictment? The NFL can decide that Zeke is guilty of abuse when the police decided there was not enough evidence to file a charge?? Why does the NFL get to use advisors to recommend what they THINK occurred?? The pictures mean a lot less to me than the police felt there was not enough evidence to file charges. Pictures do not constitute how the bruises got there. Do they have eye witnesses to the abuse?? Would I think that would hold weight with the police? Yes!!! I need to hear from law enforcement and need to hear how Roger and his advisors gathered better evidence than law enforcement and the prosecutor's office. If this is the case SOMEONE needs to be fired here in Columbus. My guess is there has to be more behind the scenes but if so would they not let Zeke know this and I would think if there is more damning evidence Zeke would just want this to go away. Zeke is willing to fight at the moment and willing to take it to court seems to suggest he is confident in his stance. Not to mention an argument of his reputation being damaged causing loss of future earnings in endorsements.  I see this getting ugly.  

As for fantasy my mind set has always been and will always be to prepare for the worse and hope for the best. I only play in Dynasty and Contract Keeper Leagues so that means just be prepared and maybe if you already had not got Mcfadden and Morris on your team go try and acquire them both hopefully at a fair value though that might be tough now.

1. You can't apply criminal law standards to civil/employment law cases.  In a criminal action, the police and DA need to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.  In a civil case or an employment law case, it only needs to be proven by a preponderance of the evidence (i.e., that it's more likely than not).  Even if the police believe it's very likely that he did it, they are not going to prosecute if they don't think they can reach that "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard. That has nothing to do with whether the NFL can meet the "preponderance" level of proof that they need to discipline. It's not like he's the first player to have to face that difference--ask Ben Roethlisberger about being suspended even though the police publicly announced that they had insufficient evidence to prosecute.

2. You may be over-estimating Zeke's intelligence.  If he was smart enough to accurately gauge his chances, he would probably be smart enough to avoid the situation where he has to make the decision. Prisons are filled with guys who "knew" the evidence against them wasn't strong enough to convict. I also vaguely recall another pretty smart player who "knew" he had a great case and the NFL would lose on his suspension...I think his name was Brady or something like that?

 

[Bankerguy]

Everyone knows that Zeke slept with the girl from the top incident....multiple times afterwards....right???

 

[32 Counter Pass]

1. You can't apply criminal law standards to civil/employment law cases.  In a criminal action, the police and DA need to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.  In a civil case or an employment law case, it only needs to be proven by a preponderance of the evidence (i.e., that it's more likely than not).  Even if the police believe it's very likely that he did it, they are not going to prosecute if they don't think they can reach that "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard. That has nothing to do with whether the NFL can meet the "preponderance" level of proof that they need to discipline. It's not like he's the first player to have to face that difference--ask Ben Roethlisberger about being suspended even though the police publicly announced that they had insufficient evidence to prosecute.

You got this one half right, at least according to Bill Polian. You are correct in saying is it more likely than not, but that is a much different standard than a preponderance of evidence. The thresh hold is 50.1%, according to Polian. 

 

[socrates]

You got this one half right, at least according to Bill Polian. You are correct in saying is it more likely than not, but that is a much different standard than a preponderance of evidence. The thresh hold is 50.1%, according to Polian. 

Explain why these are so much different

 

[apalmer]

You got this one half right, at least according to Bill Polian. You are correct in saying is it more likely than not, but that is a much different standard than a preponderance of evidence. The thresh hold is 50.1%, according to Polian. 

My law school education says 50.1% is the same as a preponderance of the evidence.

 

[LittlePhatty]

Everyone knows that Zeke slept with the girl from the top incident....multiple times afterwards....right???

Not sure at all what point you think you are making, but maybe we can turn this into an educative experience:

Why do people stay in abusive relationships?

 

[32 Counter Pass]

My law school education says 50.1% is the same as a preponderance of the evidence.

Interesting.

Definition of preponderance

1:  a superiority in weight, power, importance, or strength

2a :  a superiority or excess in number or quantity

I wouldn't think that 50.1% is an excess in number or quantity. Go figure.

 

[apalmer]

Interesting.

Definition of preponderance

1:  a superiority in weight, power, importance, or strength

2a :  a superiority or excess in number or quantity

I wouldn't think that 50.1% is an excess in number or quantity. Go figure.

Well, since 50.1% is superior to the remaining 49.9%, yeah, it is.

 

[Bankerguy]

Not sure at all what point you think you are making, but maybe we can turn this into an educative experience:

Why do people stay in abusive relationships?

We are calling this a relationship?  Furthermore, an abusive one.

Seems like a giant stretch to me.