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Okay 35 pages of information. I started reading this way back when it was created, but I slacked off.

Can I get a quick cliffs notes summary of what type of REI I could do in my situation?

Own a house free and clear. Lots of neighborhoods in the area that are basically for renters. They don't seem to stay unrented very long. There's a lot of cheap houses in the area that are listed at $30,000 to $50,000. Is it even worthwhile to invest in those type of cheap homes for rental properties, using our home as collateral for a loan?

If you plan on being a landlord, is it best to put as much down on the rental property as possible or as little as possible and let the rent make the mortgage payments with the remainder going in your pocket?

TIA

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So glad this thread is still alive. I am up to 300+ units,  A 50 unit apartment building, and 200+ units simple walking distance from my back door.  Quality infrastructure, although I am losing m

I've had numerous realtors call me to ask if I'm selling anything.  We just had a long term tenant move out of a 3/2 sfh, I'm tempted to sell.  We should get about 6-7x what we paid for it 9 years ago

best worst humble brag of the year nomination.  

Okay 35 pages of information. I started reading this way back when it was created, but I slacked off.

Can I get a quick cliffs notes summary of what type of REI I could do in my situation?

Own a house free and clear. Lots of neighborhoods in the area that are basically for renters. They don't seem to stay unrented very long. There's a lot of cheap houses in the area that are listed at $30,000 to $50,000. Is it even worthwhile to invest in those type of cheap homes for rental properties, using our home as collateral for a loan?

If you plan on being a landlord, is it best to put as much down on the rental property as possible or as little as possible and let the rent make the mortgage payments with the remainder going in your pocket?

TIA

KRS,

Good questions.

1. You own "A House" free and clear. Safe to assume this is where you live?

In either case, you have to be willing to do something that shakes many investors up - which is to take on more debt.

That sounds crazy - why would I do that if I'm trying to make money - but bear with me.

This is good debt.

You have to be willing to take $ out of a house and use it to buy more income property. That takes guts and discipline. Don't refinance a house to take the kids skiing.

Buying a rental property makes sense if the rent is > or = 1% of the price of the house. That is, if the house is $50K, the rent had better be at least $500. This pays the mortgage and other expenses and leaves you some extra $ each month.

Do that, repeat. Now you're a landlord with many houses.

As far as being a LandLord (LL), check out Mister Landlord.com - Link.. Many LLs swear by it, as does our own Mike Anderson.

Borrow as much as you can as long as the renter can cover it - use the $ you borrow to buy more houses. Repeat.

Own the properties in LLCs - check with state laws as to how much it is to have an LLC - if it is free, put one house in each. If not free (it is $300 in Maryland), put a few in each.

Price in a management company if you can - saves you headaches.

Thre's lots more in here, but I'm less of a LL than Mike. Ask him for more.

Good luck.

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My wife and I are looking into buying a 2nd home or townhouse as an investment. We would like to rent the home/townhouse for a few years and then sell hoping to make a profit. We have NO experience in this. I am looking for any suggestions and/or help.

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OK, a Finance question.

I toured a house with this guy.  He has his own agent, the works, I just went for a walk through to see what I thought.  I liked it.  Anyway, I just got this Email:

I believe as of Monday morning I will have an accepted offer on 4210 Hoagland.  The deal will be for 35k and must close by August 30th.  Otherwise I get stuck with a $100 per day penalty for not having it closed.  My current plan is that in 6 mos. I am going to refinance this property and I am curious as to what constitutes improvements in order to appraise at the highest value possible.  Paint, landscaping, going back to the hardwood flooring, having rental agreements?  What type of documentation would I need for these improvements as well?  What kind of costs will I be looking at for this refinance?
Little help over here?

More of a proninja question, but I'd say:

1. Receipts of all works put in on improvements shows validation of work done.

2. If you use "sweat equity", don't count on the appraiser taking that into account. If you are going to go that route, get an estimate to get the work done and THEN do it yourself - thus putting a value on getting that done. (For example - hardwood floors - if you get an estimate from someone and it is $10K and then you just do it - the appraiser should allocate $10K - even if you spend $3K on materials and do it yourself. You back-door the sweat equity value).

No, I don't do sweat equity, but that makes a TON of sense to me.

3. Get 3 estimates - use the HIGHEST for #2.

4. Anything is going to require comps. If you buy for $35K and fix it up, the best you can get is comp value - not more.

5. Seasoning - some lenders require it - and the more you have the more lenders you have that will listen. 6 months should be good for most anyone. Some get leery inside 90 days, and some don't care after one. All depends.

I guess this is my fear. Buy the place for $35K, put a bunch of work into it expecting to hit a pay day, refinance, and it comes back at $40K, and you don't get back the investment.

I have never bought a house, and banked on getting my money back by refinancing (TWO closing costs) to try and cash out.

Talk to the bank about a construction loan. I know portfolio lenders that lend 80% of the ARV and release funds to purchase and rehab. At the end, you can roll it over to permanent financing. That way you don't have to sweat the 2nd closing and appraisal - you have an ARV appraisal now.

Here is the latest question from the guy:

since I am planning to refi within 6 months - what about a line of credit? I can borrow up to 90% of the $35,000 on a line of credit at prime plus .5% = 8.75%, interest only payments - no escrow set up (that is big because of the high taxes).  Closing costs low at $500 estimated.  HERE is a great part of this - I may be able to use accessed value instead of an appraisal.  That is a big part of the savings. Let me know your thoughts -
:confused::loco::unsure:
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RK,

Send the guy an Email and ask if he is going to pull permits.  His response could be very telling here.  Let us know what he responds with.

His reply

I havent had to pull a permit yet, it hasnt been a large enough scale to require one yet.

Stay with Mexican workers or at least see what his breakdown will be on his bid?

Can't hurt to see the break down. Bass should be in here on this question, you might want to PM him. He deals with contractors more than I, as I GC my work.

The thing with permits is that they well, suck for ME. I do my own work on a house I will own for 30 years, and quite honestly, I really don't care about the latest changes in the code that come down the pipeline every 3-6 months. I don't want to keep up. I know what I need to do, and I don't need an inspector telling me that the Light switch is 2 inches too high so I have to tear out the wall and redo it all, which means more drywall work as well.

However, it's this exact same mentality that worries me if you hire a GC. I don't pull permits because It's my place and I will live with the problems for years to come, and I don't want to be hassled. Just the same, your GC doesn't want to pull permits because he doesn't want to be hassled if it is wrong. I personally know what is in my walls, where everything is, and what I did and didn't do. Are you going to know what is in the walls when this guy is done? Most likely not. This guy is out, gone, and never has to worry about it again.

Without a permit, there is no accountability. Will it be cheaper, You betcha! Do you care if you get a smoking deal at $1K that burns down the unit, when you might have paid $2K to have it not burn the thing down? That's a grand well spent to me.

No one else is there for you as it is. With a permit process, the County is in this guys back pocket and is the final word. Will the Inspectors piss you off, and I mean YOU personally somewhere along the line, Yes, Absolutely. Bunch of annal....

However, without them, if you don't understand the scope of the work, all you have to go by is your "Spidey Sense".

You could very likely be just fine, and really, the Permit Process (Inspection) really does suck. But it's protection for you.

Goggle the guy, run him through the BBB, ask for the phone number of other satisfied customers. He could be totally legit, but a little legwork on your end could stave off a Nightmare.

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My wife and I are looking into buying a 2nd home or townhouse as an investment. We would like to rent the home/townhouse for a few years and then sell hoping to make a profit. We have NO experience in this. I am looking for any suggestions and/or help.

First, edit your profile information to include where you are from. That would be a tremendous help as the advice could easily very.
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Okay 35 pages of information.  I started reading this way back when it was created, but I slacked off.

Can I get a quick cliffs notes summary of what type of REI I could do in my situation?

Own a house free and clear.  Lots of neighborhoods in the area that are basically for renters.  They don't seem to stay unrented very long.  There's a lot of cheap houses in the area that are listed at $30,000 to $50,000.  Is it even worthwhile to invest in those type of cheap homes for rental properties, using our home as collateral for a loan?

If you plan on being a landlord, is it best to put as much down on the rental property as possible or as little as possible and let the rent make the mortgage payments with the remainder going in your pocket?

TIA

KRS,

Good questions.

1. You own "A House" free and clear. Safe to assume this is where you live?

In either case, you have to be willing to do something that shakes many investors up - which is to take on more debt.

That sounds crazy - why would I do that if I'm trying to make money - but bear with me.

This is good debt.

You have to be willing to take $ out of a house and use it to buy more income property. That takes guts and discipline. Don't refinance a house to take the kids skiing.

Buying a rental property makes sense if the rent is > or = 1% of the price of the house. That is, if the house is $50K, the rent had better be at least $500. This pays the mortgage and other expenses and leaves you some extra $ each month.

Do that, repeat. Now you're a landlord with many houses.

As far as being a LandLord (LL), check out Mister Landlord.com - Link.. Many LLs swear by it, as does our own Mike Anderson.

Borrow as much as you can as long as the renter can cover it - use the $ you borrow to buy more houses. Repeat.

Own the properties in LLCs - check with state laws as to how much it is to have an LLC - if it is free, put one house in each. If not free (it is $300 in Maryland), put a few in each.

Price in a management company if you can - saves you headaches.

Thre's lots more in here, but I'm less of a LL than Mike. Ask him for more.

Good luck.

There is alot to try and say here, I'll come back to this later.

Please update your Profile to include the area you are operating in, that would be a huge help.

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KRS,Good questions.1. You own "A House" free and clear. Safe to assume this is where you live?

Yes we own and live in the house (SW Georgia).

Buying a rental property makes sense if the rent is > or = 1% of the price of the house. That is, if the house is $50K, the rent had better be at least $500. This pays the mortgage and other expenses and leaves you some extra $ each month.

A friend of the family purchased a home for about $50,000 and they rent it out for about $650 a month. So that's good according to your criteria.

Borrow as much as you can as long as the renter can cover it - use the $ you borrow to buy more houses. Repeat.

So would you recommend a HELOC on the house so as I get renters into an apartment, I can take more money out towards the purchase of another property instead of having to get an entirely different loan?I figure with a HELOC, we know up front how much capital we are working with instead of trying to figure out how many different loans we can take out.

Own the properties in LLCs - check with state laws as to how much it is to have an LLC - if it is free, put one house in each. If not free (it is $300 in Maryland), put a few in each.

Just checked, and it looks like it's $125 + $30/year. Thanks for your answers and the landlord links.
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Also, what is the purpose behind putting properties under different LLCs?

Liability protection. If you put them all into one, all of them are subject to attack. Personally I believe the money is better spent on an umbrella policy for increased liability protection.
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KRS,Good questions.1. You own "A House" free and clear. Safe to assume this is where you live?

Yes we own and live in the house (SW Georgia).

Buying a rental property makes sense if the rent is > or = 1% of the price of the house. That is, if the house is $50K, the rent had better be at least $500. This pays the mortgage and other expenses and leaves you some extra $ each month.

A friend of the family purchased a home for about $50,000 and they rent it out for about $650 a month. So that's good according to your criteria.

Borrow as much as you can as long as the renter can cover it - use the $ you borrow to buy more houses. Repeat.

So would you recommend a HELOC on the house so as I get renters into an apartment, I can take more money out towards the purchase of another property instead of having to get an entirely different loan?I figure with a HELOC, we know up front how much capital we are working with instead of trying to figure out how many different loans we can take out.

Own the properties in LLCs - check with state laws as to how much it is to have an LLC - if it is free, put one house in each. If not free (it is $300 in Maryland), put a few in each.

Just checked, and it looks like it's $125 + $30/year. Thanks for your answers and the landlord links.
KRS,I'm still pretty green here but is your goal to only get into one or two investment properties at a time or to go full steam ahead and get as much as quickly as you can? I believe this greatly influences your financing means. Edited by Random
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Also, what is the purpose behind putting properties under different LLCs?

Liability protection. If you put them all into one, all of them are subject to attack.

Personally I believe the money is better spent on an umbrella policy for increased liability protection.
Okay I figured that. Can you explain what an umbrella policy is and why the money is better spent that way?

KRS,

Good questions.

1. You own "A House" free and clear. Safe to assume this is where you live?

Yes we own and live in the house (SW Georgia).

Buying a rental property makes sense if the rent is > or = 1% of the price of the house. That is, if the house is $50K, the rent had better be at least $500. This pays the mortgage and other expenses and leaves you some extra $ each month.

A friend of the family purchased a home for about $50,000 and they rent it out for about $650 a month. So that's good according to your criteria.

Borrow as much as you can as long as the renter can cover it - use the $ you borrow to buy more houses. Repeat.

So would you recommend a HELOC on the house so as I get renters into an apartment, I can take more money out towards the purchase of another property instead of having to get an entirely different loan?

I figure with a HELOC, we know up front how much capital we are working with instead of trying to figure out how many different loans we can take out.

Own the properties in LLCs - check with state laws as to how much it is to have an LLC - if it is free, put one house in each. If not free (it is $300 in Maryland), put a few in each.

Just checked, and it looks like it's $125 + $30/year.

Thanks for your answers and the landlord links.

KRS,

I'm still pretty green here but is your goal to only get into one or two investment properties at a time or to go full steam ahead and get as much as quickly as you can? I believe this greatly influences your financing means.

Well I am open to whatever, but in my mind I figured I had to go a couple at a time. I didn't want to leave myself wide open with 10 mortage payments to make waiting for tenants.
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KRS,

Good questions.

1.  You own "A House" free and clear.  Safe to assume this is where you live?

Yes we own and live in the house (SW Georgia).

Thanks for adding your area of operation, that really does help.

Buying a rental property makes sense if the rent is > or = 1% of the price of the house.  That is, if the house is $50K, the rent had better be at least $500.  This pays the mortgage and other expenses and leaves you some extra $ each month.

A friend of the family purchased a home for about $50,000 and they rent it out for about $650 a month. So that's good according to your criteria.

To the average investor, THAT's GREAT! It depends on your market. I am in a lower market, and that would be a little tight for my liking, but yes, I might buy a deal like that. If I was getting $650 a month in rent, I would want the place for no more than $40K. But I can do that in my Market. Actually, I could buy around $30K and still get that rent with about zero rehab if I look and wait for the right property.

What is your market like? Post a few of the Zip codes you are looking to buy in so I can poke around some.

Borrow as much as you can as long as the renter can cover it - use the $ you borrow to buy more houses.  Repeat.

So would you recommend a HELOC on the house so as I get renters into an apartment, I can take more money out towards the purchase of another property instead of having to get an entirely different loan?

I figure with a HELOC, we know up front how much capital we are working with instead of trying to figure out how many different loans we can take out.

Own the properties in LLCs - check with state laws as to how much it is to have an LLC - if it is free, put one house in each.  If not free (it is $300 in Maryland), put a few in each.

Just checked, and it looks like it's $125 + $30/year.

Thanks for your answers and the landlord links.

Best advice I can give someone wanting to be a Land Lord is Mr Land Lord. When I first found that site I literally was sleeping for 4 hours a night for a week, staying up all night to scour every single post on the Message boards. Make sure to check out the asset protection MB.
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Also, what is the purpose behind putting properties under different LLCs?

Each LLC is a different entity, and if sued, only that LLC can be attached. If you have 10 properties in an LLC, all 10 can be in danger with the one law suit. I wouldn't do it, but say you had those 10 properties in 10 LLCs, you only risk one property. No LLC, and you get sued over one property, you entire financial picture is in jeopardy, including your savings and your personal home.I have an LLC. I no longer put anything into it, and I won't be starting another one. It's a pain. The paperwork requirement is a hassle. I would take a wild bet that some 80% of the RE LLCs out there actually offer ZERO protection, as they are not managed correctly. I would seriously put money on it. If you are going to do it, make sure you are all over it, as if you don't comply with every little thing, the LLC is worthless.An LLC does offer the very best protection available.I am converting to the Umbrella Policy school of thought. Insurance can offer massive protection, and they will use their Lawyers at no cost to you if a battle ever does come up. It will be your Lawyer cost if the LLC must fight.I use State Farm for my Umbrella. It's $250.00 per Million in coverage for up to 50 Properties. So for $500.00 a year, I have $2M in coverage to fight anyone about anything. The Insurance company Lawyers do all the work and battle at no cost to me, and at the end of the day, the Insurance company can choose to settle for anywhere lass than 2 Million, and that is going to appease any renter on anything. $50K would be enough to have almost anyone sueing me stand down, much less $2M. Most Insurance won't cover Lead Paint or Mold, and if they do, it will be expensive. Mine covers Mold. I am on an Island on Lead Paint for any property outside of the LLC. However, there is the Pamphlet, disclosure, and Federal Law with the steps to take there for protection.If you are dealing with properties built after (I think) 1973, you don't have to worry about lead from a legal standpoint anyway.
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KRS,

Are the homes you are looking at newer? If they are from the late 70's and forward, you have no Lead Paint concerns. Even if they are older, I would hazard a guess that you are not going to get beat up in GA.

Now, if someone is in NY, MA, CA, or any of the other Socialist Republics, this advice would be entirely different.

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KRS,Are the homes you are looking at newer? If they are from the late 70's and forward, you have no Lead Paint concerns. Even if they are older, I would hazard a guess that you are not going to get beat up in GA.

A lot of these houses I've seen on realtor.com are way before 1970.Also, I am completely useless as a handyman. How does that factor into refurbishing these houses if they are beat down (like I am expecting).
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OK, a Finance question.

I toured a house with this guy. He has his own agent, the works, I just went for a walk through to see what I thought. I liked it. Anyway, I just got this Email:

I believe as of Monday morning I will have an accepted offer on 4210 Hoagland.  The deal will be for 35k and must close by August 30th.  Otherwise I get stuck with a $100 per day penalty for not having it closed.  My current plan is that in 6 mos. I am going to refinance this property and I am curious as to what constitutes improvements in order to appraise at the highest value possible.  Paint, landscaping, going back to the hardwood flooring, having rental agreements?  What type of documentation would I need for these improvements as well?  What kind of costs will I be looking at for this refinance?
Little help over here?

More of a proninja question, but I'd say:

1. Receipts of all works put in on improvements shows validation of work done.

2. If you use "sweat equity", don't count on the appraiser taking that into account. If you are going to go that route, get an estimate to get the work done and THEN do it yourself - thus putting a value on getting that done. (For example - hardwood floors - if you get an estimate from someone and it is $10K and then you just do it - the appraiser should allocate $10K - even if you spend $3K on materials and do it yourself. You back-door the sweat equity value).

No, I don't do sweat equity, but that makes a TON of sense to me.

3. Get 3 estimates - use the HIGHEST for #2.

4. Anything is going to require comps. If you buy for $35K and fix it up, the best you can get is comp value - not more.

5. Seasoning - some lenders require it - and the more you have the more lenders you have that will listen. 6 months should be good for most anyone. Some get leery inside 90 days, and some don't care after one. All depends.

I guess this is my fear. Buy the place for $35K, put a bunch of work into it expecting to hit a pay day, refinance, and it comes back at $40K, and you don't get back the investment.

I have never bought a house, and banked on getting my money back by refinancing (TWO closing costs) to try and cash out.

Talk to the bank about a construction loan. I know portfolio lenders that lend 80% of the ARV and release funds to purchase and rehab. At the end, you can roll it over to permanent financing. That way you don't have to sweat the 2nd closing and appraisal - you have an ARV appraisal now.

Here is the latest question from the guy:

since I am planning to refi within 6 months - what about a line of credit? I can borrow up to 90% of the $35,000 on a line of credit at prime plus .5% = 8.75%, interest only payments - no escrow set up (that is big because of the high taxes).  Closing costs low at $500 estimated.  HERE is a great part of this - I may be able to use accessed value instead of an appraisal.  That is a big part of the savings. Let me know your thoughts -
:confused::loco::unsure:
I can understand your confusion.

I think he means "assessed" value - based on tax records - to save an appraisal.

But that doesn't give you more than 90% of 35K, so what's the point?

You want 90% of the assessed value or more (assuming assessment is >>$35K).

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RK,

Send the guy an Email and ask if he is going to pull permits. His response could be very telling here. Let us know what he responds with.

His reply

I havent had to pull a permit yet, it hasnt been a large enough scale to require one yet.

Stay with Mexican workers or at least see what his breakdown will be on his bid?

Can't hurt to see the break down. Bass should be in here on this question, you might want to PM him. He deals with contractors more than I, as I GC my work.

The thing with permits is that they well, suck for ME. I do my own work on a house I will own for 30 years, and quite honestly, I really don't care about the latest changes in the code that come down the pipeline every 3-6 months. I don't want to keep up. I know what I need to do, and I don't need an inspector telling me that the Light switch is 2 inches too high so I have to tear out the wall and redo it all, which means more drywall work as well.

However, it's this exact same mentality that worries me if you hire a GC. I don't pull permits because It's my place and I will live with the problems for years to come, and I don't want to be hassled. Just the same, your GC doesn't want to pull permits because he doesn't want to be hassled if it is wrong. I personally know what is in my walls, where everything is, and what I did and didn't do. Are you going to know what is in the walls when this guy is done? Most likely not. This guy is out, gone, and never has to worry about it again.

Without a permit, there is no accountability. Will it be cheaper, You betcha! Do you care if you get a smoking deal at $1K that burns down the unit, when you might have paid $2K to have it not burn the thing down? That's a grand well spent to me.

No one else is there for you as it is. With a permit process, the County is in this guys back pocket and is the final word. Will the Inspectors piss you off, and I mean YOU personally somewhere along the line, Yes, Absolutely. Bunch of annal....

However, without them, if you don't understand the scope of the work, all you have to go by is your "Spidey Sense".

You could very likely be just fine, and really, the Permit Process (Inspection) really does suck. But it's protection for you.

Goggle the guy, run him through the BBB, ask for the phone number of other satisfied customers. He could be totally legit, but a little legwork on your end could stave off a Nightmare.

good stuff, well in all cases I am not going to pull permits. While I understand the drawbacks, I think they will outweigh them if I insist on permits. I'll just have to keep a closer eye (in my backyard and I work from home now) and be a pain in the *** and be on top of them. I've worked in electrical construction a long time ago and while I am far from an expert, I have a little bit of knowledge, at least I think I do!

Ok, so it comes down to paying more for the gang of Mexicans (labor they are charging $3500 but I have to foot all materials) or this GC (the ONLY thin I have to foot is a few appliances). His mother is a manager of a building supply so he gets "son's discount" and his brother is an electrican. Here's his bid!

RKMoney Residence

Austin, Tx. 78703

Re: Bid for Guest Apartment Remodel

The following is the bid for your guest apartment that we previously discussed.

Electrical $300.00

Insulation $300.00

Sheetrock/Tape/Float/Texture $500.00

Tiling of bathroom floor $300.00

Exterior sealant & drainage issue $240.00

Gutter system for proper “run-off” $220.00

Trimwork (re: baseboards, windows, door, ceiling) $300.00

Plumbing work $200.00

Window replacement $400.00

Various fixtures and installation $200.00

Exterior wall patch $100.00

Range C.W.P.

Refrigerator C.W.P.

A/C Unit C.W.P.

Microwave C.W.P.

Job will start with demolition of inner-ceiling. This will allow for new wiring, installation of lighting, and insulation. Then removal of ALL debris to allow for a proper workspace. (Time frame: 1 day)

Day two will consist of insulation and any interior wall re-enforcement that is necessary. This means any possible bad studs and window area restructuring. (Time frame: 1 day)

Day three will consist of all new wiring, installation of new “sub-panel”, installation of lighting, gang-boxes, switch legs, G.F.I. circuit, individual A/C circuit, and receptacles. (Time frame: 1 to 2 days)

Day four will consist of new window installation to be followed by sheet rocking, taping, and floating, and installation of water-resistant sheet rock in shower area. (Time frame: 1 day)

Day five will consist of sanding and texturing of walls and ceiling, to be followed by painting and trim work. (Time frame: 1 day)

Day six will consist of flooring installation in bathroom, followed by all fixture and appliance installation, to be followed by installation of exterior drainage system to prevent interior water damage. This will include “re-flashing” canopy structure. (Time frame: 1 day)

Day seven will be walk-through and punch-out list to be assured that customer is 100% satisfied with their new remodel.

Upon signing of contract, customer will provide deposit of $1200.00 for various material purchases (re: sheet rock, tape, joint compound, wiring, new receptacles, new switches, sub-panel box and fuses, miscellaneous plumbing fixtures, bathroom vanities, insulation, windows, disposal fees, etc.)

Contractor provides ALL materials with exception of any “C.W.P.” (customer will provide) items.

Total project will be done for the amount of $3060.00 (price does not include “C.W.P.” items.) _____

Upon signing of contract, customer will provide $1200.00. _____

Upon completion of job, customer will provide remaining $1860.00 (upon 100% customer satisfaction of job). ______

Thank you for your consideration.

RLF

R.L.F. Contracting

Thoughts? I don't like fronting that much in in $$ so I may want him to at least produce the work and use the materials THEN give him the $$. I don't want someone running off with over $1k in my cash.

He also provided a reference so I will call and go see his work.

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Each LLC is a different entity, and if sued, only that LLC can be attached. If you have 10 properties in an LLC, all 10 can be in danger with the one law suit. I wouldn't do it, but say you had those 10 properties in 10 LLCs, you only risk one property. No LLC, and you get sued over one property, you entire financial picture is in jeopardy, including your savings and your personal home.

I thought the point of incorporating was shielding yourself from personal liability.

Stupid question... how do you pay yourself? Any money that comes in is going to ABC INC. Is there an efficient way to pay yourself to avoid taxes?

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RK,

Send the guy an Email and ask if he is going to pull permits. His response could be very telling here. Let us know what he responds with.

His reply

I havent had to pull a permit yet, it hasnt been a large enough scale to require one yet.

Stay with Mexican workers or at least see what his breakdown will be on his bid?

Can't hurt to see the break down. Bass should be in here on this question, you might want to PM him. He deals with contractors more than I, as I GC my work.

The thing with permits is that they well, suck for ME. I do my own work on a house I will own for 30 years, and quite honestly, I really don't care about the latest changes in the code that come down the pipeline every 3-6 months. I don't want to keep up. I know what I need to do, and I don't need an inspector telling me that the Light switch is 2 inches too high so I have to tear out the wall and redo it all, which means more drywall work as well.

However, it's this exact same mentality that worries me if you hire a GC. I don't pull permits because It's my place and I will live with the problems for years to come, and I don't want to be hassled. Just the same, your GC doesn't want to pull permits because he doesn't want to be hassled if it is wrong. I personally know what is in my walls, where everything is, and what I did and didn't do. Are you going to know what is in the walls when this guy is done? Most likely not. This guy is out, gone, and never has to worry about it again.

Without a permit, there is no accountability. Will it be cheaper, You betcha! Do you care if you get a smoking deal at $1K that burns down the unit, when you might have paid $2K to have it not burn the thing down? That's a grand well spent to me.

No one else is there for you as it is. With a permit process, the County is in this guys back pocket and is the final word. Will the Inspectors piss you off, and I mean YOU personally somewhere along the line, Yes, Absolutely. Bunch of annal....

However, without them, if you don't understand the scope of the work, all you have to go by is your "Spidey Sense".

You could very likely be just fine, and really, the Permit Process (Inspection) really does suck. But it's protection for you.

Goggle the guy, run him through the BBB, ask for the phone number of other satisfied customers. He could be totally legit, but a little legwork on your end could stave off a Nightmare.

good stuff, well in all cases I am not going to pull permits. While I understand the drawbacks, I think they will outweigh them if I insist on permits. I'll just have to keep a closer eye (in my backyard and I work from home now) and be a pain in the *** and be on top of them. I've worked in electrical construction a long time ago and while I am far from an expert, I have a little bit of knowledge, at least I think I do!

Ok, so it comes down to paying more for the gang of Mexicans (labor they are charging $3500 but I have to foot all materials) or this GC (the ONLY thin I have to foot is a few appliances). His mother is a manager of a building supply so he gets "son's discount" and his brother is an electrican. Here's his bid!

RKMoney Residence

Austin, Tx. 78703

Re: Bid for Guest Apartment Remodel

The following is the bid for your guest apartment that we previously discussed.

Electrical $300.00

Insulation $300.00

Sheetrock/Tape/Float/Texture $500.00

Tiling of bathroom floor $300.00

Exterior sealant & drainage issue $240.00

Gutter system for proper “run-off” $220.00

Trimwork (re: baseboards, windows, door, ceiling) $300.00

Plumbing work $200.00

Window replacement $400.00

Various fixtures and installation $200.00

Exterior wall patch $100.00

Range C.W.P.

Refrigerator C.W.P.

A/C Unit C.W.P.

Microwave C.W.P.

Job will start with demolition of inner-ceiling. This will allow for new wiring, installation of lighting, and insulation. Then removal of ALL debris to allow for a proper workspace. (Time frame: 1 day)

Day two will consist of insulation and any interior wall re-enforcement that is necessary. This means any possible bad studs and window area restructuring. (Time frame: 1 day)

Day three will consist of all new wiring, installation of new “sub-panel”, installation of lighting, gang-boxes, switch legs, G.F.I. circuit, individual A/C circuit, and receptacles. (Time frame: 1 to 2 days)

Day four will consist of new window installation to be followed by sheet rocking, taping, and floating, and installation of water-resistant sheet rock in shower area. (Time frame: 1 day)

Day five will consist of sanding and texturing of walls and ceiling, to be followed by painting and trim work. (Time frame: 1 day)

Day six will consist of flooring installation in bathroom, followed by all fixture and appliance installation, to be followed by installation of exterior drainage system to prevent interior water damage. This will include “re-flashing” canopy structure. (Time frame: 1 day)

Day seven will be walk-through and punch-out list to be assured that customer is 100% satisfied with their new remodel.

Upon signing of contract, customer will provide deposit of $1200.00 for various material purchases (re: sheet rock, tape, joint compound, wiring, new receptacles, new switches, sub-panel box and fuses, miscellaneous plumbing fixtures, bathroom vanities, insulation, windows, disposal fees, etc.)

Contractor provides ALL materials with exception of any “C.W.P.” (customer will provide) items.

Total project will be done for the amount of $3060.00 (price does not include “C.W.P.” items.) _____

Upon signing of contract, customer will provide $1200.00. _____

Upon completion of job, customer will provide remaining $1860.00 (upon 100% customer satisfaction of job). ______

Thank you for your consideration.

RLF

R.L.F. Contracting

Thoughts? I don't like fronting that much in in $$ so I may want him to at least produce the work and use the materials THEN give him the $$. I don't want someone running off with over $1k in my cash.

He also provided a reference so I will call and go see his work.

Personal opinion...get the permits pulled. My GC failed to do this (told me he did). Inspector was in to approve the HVAC and noticed some shoddy electrical work. BAM! He was threatening to have my meter pulled. Now I'm going to be out a grand fixing the mess. GC did get his last payment from me. Problem is that if you have a fire, skipping the permit process could come back on you and I doubt any insurance company will pay if they determine that you knowing skipped the permit process. I doubt an LLC would even sheild you in this case, but that's a question for your lawyer.

Regarding money up front...no dice. Why can't he wait one day. Pay him cash at the end of each day once work is done, get a receipt. Cash is faster then your check anyway. I'm sure he has an account or will be paying on credit for the materials. He can always put a lien on your house if you don't pay. I'd even go as far as to offer him a couple of hundred extra to pay this way just for the piece of mind...plus it will speed him along. With the prices this guy is quoting, red flags are going up everywhere.

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My wife and I are looking into buying a 2nd home or townhouse as an investment. We would like to rent the home/townhouse for a few years and then sell hoping to make a profit. We have NO experience in this. I am looking for any suggestions and/or help.

First, edit your profile information to include where you are from. That would be a tremendous help as the advice could easily very.
done
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RK,

Send the guy an Email and ask if he is going to pull permits. His response could be very telling here. Let us know what he responds with.

His reply

I havent had to pull a permit yet, it hasnt been a large enough scale to require one yet.

Stay with Mexican workers or at least see what his breakdown will be on his bid?

Can't hurt to see the break down. Bass should be in here on this question, you might want to PM him. He deals with contractors more than I, as I GC my work.

The thing with permits is that they well, suck for ME. I do my own work on a house I will own for 30 years, and quite honestly, I really don't care about the latest changes in the code that come down the pipeline every 3-6 months. I don't want to keep up. I know what I need to do, and I don't need an inspector telling me that the Light switch is 2 inches too high so I have to tear out the wall and redo it all, which means more drywall work as well.

However, it's this exact same mentality that worries me if you hire a GC. I don't pull permits because It's my place and I will live with the problems for years to come, and I don't want to be hassled. Just the same, your GC doesn't want to pull permits because he doesn't want to be hassled if it is wrong. I personally know what is in my walls, where everything is, and what I did and didn't do. Are you going to know what is in the walls when this guy is done? Most likely not. This guy is out, gone, and never has to worry about it again.

Without a permit, there is no accountability. Will it be cheaper, You betcha! Do you care if you get a smoking deal at $1K that burns down the unit, when you might have paid $2K to have it not burn the thing down? That's a grand well spent to me.

No one else is there for you as it is. With a permit process, the County is in this guys back pocket and is the final word. Will the Inspectors piss you off, and I mean YOU personally somewhere along the line, Yes, Absolutely. Bunch of annal....

However, without them, if you don't understand the scope of the work, all you have to go by is your "Spidey Sense".

You could very likely be just fine, and really, the Permit Process (Inspection) really does suck. But it's protection for you.

Goggle the guy, run him through the BBB, ask for the phone number of other satisfied customers. He could be totally legit, but a little legwork on your end could stave off a Nightmare.

good stuff, well in all cases I am not going to pull permits. While I understand the drawbacks, I think they will outweigh them if I insist on permits. I'll just have to keep a closer eye (in my backyard and I work from home now) and be a pain in the *** and be on top of them. I've worked in electrical construction a long time ago and while I am far from an expert, I have a little bit of knowledge, at least I think I do!

Ok, so it comes down to paying more for the gang of Mexicans (labor they are charging $3500 but I have to foot all materials) or this GC (the ONLY thin I have to foot is a few appliances). His mother is a manager of a building supply so he gets "son's discount" and his brother is an electrican. Here's his bid!

RKMoney Residence

Austin, Tx. 78703

Re: Bid for Guest Apartment Remodel

The following is the bid for your guest apartment that we previously discussed.

Electrical $300.00

Insulation $300.00

Sheetrock/Tape/Float/Texture $500.00

Tiling of bathroom floor $300.00

Exterior sealant & drainage issue $240.00

Gutter system for proper “run-off” $220.00

Trimwork (re: baseboards, windows, door, ceiling) $300.00

Plumbing work $200.00

Window replacement $400.00

Various fixtures and installation $200.00

Exterior wall patch $100.00

Range C.W.P.

Refrigerator C.W.P.

A/C Unit C.W.P.

Microwave C.W.P.

Job will start with demolition of inner-ceiling. This will allow for new wiring, installation of lighting, and insulation. Then removal of ALL debris to allow for a proper workspace. (Time frame: 1 day)

Day two will consist of insulation and any interior wall re-enforcement that is necessary. This means any possible bad studs and window area restructuring. (Time frame: 1 day)

Day three will consist of all new wiring, installation of new “sub-panel”, installation of lighting, gang-boxes, switch legs, G.F.I. circuit, individual A/C circuit, and receptacles. (Time frame: 1 to 2 days)

Day four will consist of new window installation to be followed by sheet rocking, taping, and floating, and installation of water-resistant sheet rock in shower area. (Time frame: 1 day)

Day five will consist of sanding and texturing of walls and ceiling, to be followed by painting and trim work. (Time frame: 1 day)

Day six will consist of flooring installation in bathroom, followed by all fixture and appliance installation, to be followed by installation of exterior drainage system to prevent interior water damage. This will include “re-flashing” canopy structure. (Time frame: 1 day)

Day seven will be walk-through and punch-out list to be assured that customer is 100% satisfied with their new remodel.

Upon signing of contract, customer will provide deposit of $1200.00 for various material purchases (re: sheet rock, tape, joint compound, wiring, new receptacles, new switches, sub-panel box and fuses, miscellaneous plumbing fixtures, bathroom vanities, insulation, windows, disposal fees, etc.)

Contractor provides ALL materials with exception of any “C.W.P.” (customer will provide) items.

Total project will be done for the amount of $3060.00 (price does not include “C.W.P.” items.) _____

Upon signing of contract, customer will provide $1200.00. _____

Upon completion of job, customer will provide remaining $1860.00 (upon 100% customer satisfaction of job). ______

Thank you for your consideration.

RLF

R.L.F. Contracting

Thoughts? I don't like fronting that much in in $$ so I may want him to at least produce the work and use the materials THEN give him the $$. I don't want someone running off with over $1k in my cash.

He also provided a reference so I will call and go see his work.

Personal opinion...get the permits pulled. My GC failed to do this (told me he did). Inspector was in to approve the HVAC and noticed some shoddy electrical work. BAM! He was threatening to have my meter pulled. Now I'm going to be out a grand fixing the mess. GC did get his last payment from me. Problem is that if you have a fire, skipping the permit process could come back on you and I doubt any insurance company will pay if they determine that you knowing skipped the permit process. I doubt an LLC would even sheild you in this case, but that's a question for your lawyer.

Regarding money up front...no dice. Why can't he wait one day. Pay him cash at the end of each day once work is done, get a receipt. Cash is faster then your check anyway. I'm sure he has an account or will be paying on credit for the materials. He can always put a lien on your house if you don't pay. I'd even go as far as to offer him a couple of hundred extra to pay this way just for the piece of mind...plus it will speed him along. With the prices this guy is quoting, red flags are going up everywhere.

Thanks! The place is in my backyard, a guest house so to speak and even their prices are so low, even if something happened and I had to get someone else to clean it up, I would still come out way ahead. So, what's the best way to handle the upfront amount (the remaining he wants at closing):

1. Offer him a check of the requested amount on the first day he arrives with the materials.

2. Offer him a bit every day in cash.

I like the check part more since I can always put a stop on it if say he doesn't show up the second day. Cash, you are screwed if he bails. The cash every day thing could be a pain in the tail, don't you think.

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[

Each LLC is a different entity, and if sued, only that LLC can be attached. If you have 10 properties in an LLC, all 10 can be in danger with the one law suit. I wouldn't do it, but say you had those 10 properties in 10 LLCs, you only risk one property. No LLC, and you get sued over one property, you entire financial picture is in jeopardy, including your savings and your personal home.

I thought the point of incorporating was shielding yourself from personal liability.
Bump for this question. As long as you don't offer a personal guarantee on the corporate credit, why would you be in danger of losing personal assets?
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[

Each LLC is a different entity, and if sued, only that LLC can be attached. If you have 10 properties in an LLC, all 10 can be in danger with the one law suit. I wouldn't do it, but say you had those 10 properties in 10 LLCs, you only risk one property. No LLC, and you get sued over one property, you entire financial picture is in jeopardy, including your savings and your personal home.

I thought the point of incorporating was shielding yourself from personal liability.
Bump for this question. As long as you don't offer a personal guarantee on the corporate credit, why would you be in danger of losing personal assets?
Look at the Red part.
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RK,

Send the guy an Email and ask if he is going to pull permits. His response could be very telling here. Let us know what he responds with.

His reply

I havent had to pull a permit yet, it hasnt been a large enough scale to require one yet.

Stay with Mexican workers or at least see what his breakdown will be on his bid?

Can't hurt to see the break down. Bass should be in here on this question, you might want to PM him. He deals with contractors more than I, as I GC my work.

The thing with permits is that they well, suck for ME. I do my own work on a house I will own for 30 years, and quite honestly, I really don't care about the latest changes in the code that come down the pipeline every 3-6 months. I don't want to keep up. I know what I need to do, and I don't need an inspector telling me that the Light switch is 2 inches too high so I have to tear out the wall and redo it all, which means more drywall work as well.

However, it's this exact same mentality that worries me if you hire a GC. I don't pull permits because It's my place and I will live with the problems for years to come, and I don't want to be hassled. Just the same, your GC doesn't want to pull permits because he doesn't want to be hassled if it is wrong. I personally know what is in my walls, where everything is, and what I did and didn't do. Are you going to know what is in the walls when this guy is done? Most likely not. This guy is out, gone, and never has to worry about it again.

Without a permit, there is no accountability. Will it be cheaper, You betcha! Do you care if you get a smoking deal at $1K that burns down the unit, when you might have paid $2K to have it not burn the thing down? That's a grand well spent to me.

No one else is there for you as it is. With a permit process, the County is in this guys back pocket and is the final word. Will the Inspectors piss you off, and I mean YOU personally somewhere along the line, Yes, Absolutely. Bunch of annal....

However, without them, if you don't understand the scope of the work, all you have to go by is your "Spidey Sense".

You could very likely be just fine, and really, the Permit Process (Inspection) really does suck. But it's protection for you.

Goggle the guy, run him through the BBB, ask for the phone number of other satisfied customers. He could be totally legit, but a little legwork on your end could stave off a Nightmare.

good stuff, well in all cases I am not going to pull permits. While I understand the drawbacks, I think they will outweigh them if I insist on permits. I'll just have to keep a closer eye (in my backyard and I work from home now) and be a pain in the *** and be on top of them. I've worked in electrical construction a long time ago and while I am far from an expert, I have a little bit of knowledge, at least I think I do!

Ok, so it comes down to paying more for the gang of Mexicans (labor they are charging $3500 but I have to foot all materials) or this GC (the ONLY thin I have to foot is a few appliances). His mother is a manager of a building supply so he gets "son's discount" and his brother is an electrican. Here's his bid!

RKMoney Residence

Austin, Tx. 78703

Re: Bid for Guest Apartment Remodel

The following is the bid for your guest apartment that we previously discussed.

Electrical $300.00

Insulation $300.00

Sheetrock/Tape/Float/Texture $500.00

Tiling of bathroom floor $300.00

Exterior sealant & drainage issue $240.00

Gutter system for proper “run-off” $220.00

Trimwork (re: baseboards, windows, door, ceiling) $300.00

Plumbing work $200.00

Window replacement $400.00

Various fixtures and installation $200.00

Exterior wall patch $100.00

Range C.W.P.

Refrigerator C.W.P.

A/C Unit C.W.P.

Microwave C.W.P.

Job will start with demolition of inner-ceiling. This will allow for new wiring, installation of lighting, and insulation. Then removal of ALL debris to allow for a proper workspace. (Time frame: 1 day)

Day two will consist of insulation and any interior wall re-enforcement that is necessary. This means any possible bad studs and window area restructuring. (Time frame: 1 day)

Day three will consist of all new wiring, installation of new “sub-panel”, installation of lighting, gang-boxes, switch legs, G.F.I. circuit, individual A/C circuit, and receptacles. (Time frame: 1 to 2 days)

Day four will consist of new window installation to be followed by sheet rocking, taping, and floating, and installation of water-resistant sheet rock in shower area. (Time frame: 1 day)

Day five will consist of sanding and texturing of walls and ceiling, to be followed by painting and trim work. (Time frame: 1 day)

Day six will consist of flooring installation in bathroom, followed by all fixture and appliance installation, to be followed by installation of exterior drainage system to prevent interior water damage. This will include “re-flashing” canopy structure. (Time frame: 1 day)

Day seven will be walk-through and punch-out list to be assured that customer is 100% satisfied with their new remodel.

Upon signing of contract, customer will provide deposit of $1200.00 for various material purchases (re: sheet rock, tape, joint compound, wiring, new receptacles, new switches, sub-panel box and fuses, miscellaneous plumbing fixtures, bathroom vanities, insulation, windows, disposal fees, etc.)

Contractor provides ALL materials with exception of any “C.W.P.” (customer will provide) items.

Total project will be done for the amount of $3060.00 (price does not include “C.W.P.” items.) _____

Upon signing of contract, customer will provide $1200.00. _____

Upon completion of job, customer will provide remaining $1860.00 (upon 100% customer satisfaction of job). ______

Thank you for your consideration.

RLF

R.L.F. Contracting

Thoughts? I don't like fronting that much in in $$ so I may want him to at least produce the work and use the materials THEN give him the $$. I don't want someone running off with over $1k in my cash.

He also provided a reference so I will call and go see his work.

Personal opinion...get the permits pulled. My GC failed to do this (told me he did). Inspector was in to approve the HVAC and noticed some shoddy electrical work. BAM! He was threatening to have my meter pulled. Now I'm going to be out a grand fixing the mess. GC did get his last payment from me. Problem is that if you have a fire, skipping the permit process could come back on you and I doubt any insurance company will pay if they determine that you knowing skipped the permit process. I doubt an LLC would even sheild you in this case, but that's a question for your lawyer.

Regarding money up front...no dice. Why can't he wait one day. Pay him cash at the end of each day once work is done, get a receipt. Cash is faster then your check anyway. I'm sure he has an account or will be paying on credit for the materials. He can always put a lien on your house if you don't pay. I'd even go as far as to offer him a couple of hundred extra to pay this way just for the piece of mind...plus it will speed him along. With the prices this guy is quoting, red flags are going up everywhere.

Thanks! The place is in my backyard, a guest house so to speak and even their prices are so low, even if something happened and I had to get someone else to clean it up, I would still come out way ahead. So, what's the best way to handle the upfront amount (the remaining he wants at closing):

1. Offer him a check of the requested amount on the first day he arrives with the materials.

2. Offer him a bit every day in cash.

I like the check part more since I can always put a stop on it if say he doesn't show up the second day. Cash, you are screwed if he bails. The cash every day thing could be a pain in the tail, don't you think.

In Austin, if you want to do work on your own house without a permit, its generally ok, but everyhting still must be to code. You can even have someone help you under your direction. But hiring out the job like you are doing is illegal. ANd I guarantee you, someone in your neighborhood will tell on you. Then they are going to come and red tag the property, hlating all owrk until inspected and plans okayed. Because you tried to circumvent them, they are not going to be particularly nice or helpful.

Also, since you plan on renting out the unit, I think you need to pull a permit regardless of who does the work. I'm afraid you need to bite the bullet here or you are going to end up losing much more than you save.

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RK,

Send the guy an Email and ask if he is going to pull permits. His response could be very telling here. Let us know what he responds with.

His reply

I havent had to pull a permit yet, it hasnt been a large enough scale to require one yet.

Stay with Mexican workers or at least see what his breakdown will be on his bid?

Can't hurt to see the break down. Bass should be in here on this question, you might want to PM him. He deals with contractors more than I, as I GC my work.

The thing with permits is that they well, suck for ME. I do my own work on a house I will own for 30 years, and quite honestly, I really don't care about the latest changes in the code that come down the pipeline every 3-6 months. I don't want to keep up. I know what I need to do, and I don't need an inspector telling me that the Light switch is 2 inches too high so I have to tear out the wall and redo it all, which means more drywall work as well.

However, it's this exact same mentality that worries me if you hire a GC. I don't pull permits because It's my place and I will live with the problems for years to come, and I don't want to be hassled. Just the same, your GC doesn't want to pull permits because he doesn't want to be hassled if it is wrong. I personally know what is in my walls, where everything is, and what I did and didn't do. Are you going to know what is in the walls when this guy is done? Most likely not. This guy is out, gone, and never has to worry about it again.

Without a permit, there is no accountability. Will it be cheaper, You betcha! Do you care if you get a smoking deal at $1K that burns down the unit, when you might have paid $2K to have it not burn the thing down? That's a grand well spent to me.

No one else is there for you as it is. With a permit process, the County is in this guys back pocket and is the final word. Will the Inspectors piss you off, and I mean YOU personally somewhere along the line, Yes, Absolutely. Bunch of annal....

However, without them, if you don't understand the scope of the work, all you have to go by is your "Spidey Sense".

You could very likely be just fine, and really, the Permit Process (Inspection) really does suck. But it's protection for you.

Goggle the guy, run him through the BBB, ask for the phone number of other satisfied customers. He could be totally legit, but a little legwork on your end could stave off a Nightmare.

good stuff, well in all cases I am not going to pull permits. While I understand the drawbacks, I think they will outweigh them if I insist on permits. I'll just have to keep a closer eye (in my backyard and I work from home now) and be a pain in the *** and be on top of them. I've worked in electrical construction a long time ago and while I am far from an expert, I have a little bit of knowledge, at least I think I do!

Ok, so it comes down to paying more for the gang of Mexicans (labor they are charging $3500 but I have to foot all materials) or this GC (the ONLY thin I have to foot is a few appliances). His mother is a manager of a building supply so he gets "son's discount" and his brother is an electrican. Here's his bid!

RKMoney Residence

Austin, Tx. 78703

Re: Bid for Guest Apartment Remodel

The following is the bid for your guest apartment that we previously discussed.

Electrical $300.00

Insulation $300.00

Sheetrock/Tape/Float/Texture $500.00

Tiling of bathroom floor $300.00

Exterior sealant & drainage issue $240.00

Gutter system for proper “run-off” $220.00

Trimwork (re: baseboards, windows, door, ceiling) $300.00

Plumbing work $200.00

Window replacement $400.00

Various fixtures and installation $200.00

Exterior wall patch $100.00

Range C.W.P.

Refrigerator C.W.P.

A/C Unit C.W.P.

Microwave C.W.P.

Job will start with demolition of inner-ceiling. This will allow for new wiring, installation of lighting, and insulation. Then removal of ALL debris to allow for a proper workspace. (Time frame: 1 day)

Day two will consist of insulation and any interior wall re-enforcement that is necessary. This means any possible bad studs and window area restructuring. (Time frame: 1 day)

Day three will consist of all new wiring, installation of new “sub-panel”, installation of lighting, gang-boxes, switch legs, G.F.I. circuit, individual A/C circuit, and receptacles. (Time frame: 1 to 2 days)

Day four will consist of new window installation to be followed by sheet rocking, taping, and floating, and installation of water-resistant sheet rock in shower area. (Time frame: 1 day)

Day five will consist of sanding and texturing of walls and ceiling, to be followed by painting and trim work. (Time frame: 1 day)

Day six will consist of flooring installation in bathroom, followed by all fixture and appliance installation, to be followed by installation of exterior drainage system to prevent interior water damage. This will include “re-flashing” canopy structure. (Time frame: 1 day)

Day seven will be walk-through and punch-out list to be assured that customer is 100% satisfied with their new remodel.

Upon signing of contract, customer will provide deposit of $1200.00 for various material purchases (re: sheet rock, tape, joint compound, wiring, new receptacles, new switches, sub-panel box and fuses, miscellaneous plumbing fixtures, bathroom vanities, insulation, windows, disposal fees, etc.)

Contractor provides ALL materials with exception of any “C.W.P.” (customer will provide) items.

Total project will be done for the amount of $3060.00 (price does not include “C.W.P.” items.) _____

Upon signing of contract, customer will provide $1200.00. _____

Upon completion of job, customer will provide remaining $1860.00 (upon 100% customer satisfaction of job). ______

Thank you for your consideration.

RLF

R.L.F. Contracting

Thoughts? I don't like fronting that much in in $$ so I may want him to at least produce the work and use the materials THEN give him the $$. I don't want someone running off with over $1k in my cash.

He also provided a reference so I will call and go see his work.

Personal opinion...get the permits pulled. My GC failed to do this (told me he did). Inspector was in to approve the HVAC and noticed some shoddy electrical work. BAM! He was threatening to have my meter pulled. Now I'm going to be out a grand fixing the mess. GC did get his last payment from me. Problem is that if you have a fire, skipping the permit process could come back on you and I doubt any insurance company will pay if they determine that you knowing skipped the permit process. I doubt an LLC would even sheild you in this case, but that's a question for your lawyer.

Regarding money up front...no dice. Why can't he wait one day. Pay him cash at the end of each day once work is done, get a receipt. Cash is faster then your check anyway. I'm sure he has an account or will be paying on credit for the materials. He can always put a lien on your house if you don't pay. I'd even go as far as to offer him a couple of hundred extra to pay this way just for the piece of mind...plus it will speed him along. With the prices this guy is quoting, red flags are going up everywhere.

Thanks! The place is in my backyard, a guest house so to speak and even their prices are so low, even if something happened and I had to get someone else to clean it up, I would still come out way ahead. So, what's the best way to handle the upfront amount (the remaining he wants at closing):

1. Offer him a check of the requested amount on the first day he arrives with the materials.

2. Offer him a bit every day in cash.

I like the check part more since I can always put a stop on it if say he doesn't show up the second day. Cash, you are screwed if he bails. The cash every day thing could be a pain in the tail, don't you think.

In Austin, if you want to do work on your own house without a permit, its generally ok, but everyhting still must be to code. You can even have someone help you under your direction. But hiring out the job like you are doing is illegal. ANd I guarantee you, someone in your neighborhood will tell on you. Then they are going to come and red tag the property, hlating all owrk until inspected and plans okayed. Because you tried to circumvent them, they are not going to be particularly nice or helpful.

Also, since you plan on renting out the unit, I think you need to pull a permit regardless of who does the work. I'm afraid you need to bite the bullet here or you are going to end up losing much more than you save.

Thanks. I think I'll be ok. I've already had some people work on my place (gut out bathroom and dig and redo the pipes leading out) plus I have just about totally gutted out the place without anyone complaining. My closest neighbor actually has a potential rentor so he is geared up that I am going to fix it up nice. The other two places to the North I have let them know (because of drain issues I contacted them) and they are actually having people redo their places as we speak and I don't even know if they have permits or not (didn't see anything posted when I was over and their project is much larger than mine).

Electrical will be done by an electrician and it's a small place plus I won't mind getting my hands dirty to speed it up. There won't be more than a few guys over at one time, not like a bunch of people will be over making more noise than there has been so far.

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[

Each LLC is a different entity, and if sued, only that LLC can be attached. If you have 10 properties in an LLC, all 10 can be in danger with the one law suit. I wouldn't do it, but say you had those 10 properties in 10 LLCs, you only risk one property. No LLC, and you get sued over one property, you entire financial picture is in jeopardy, including your savings and your personal home.

I thought the point of incorporating was shielding yourself from personal liability.
Bump for this question. As long as you don't offer a personal guarantee on the corporate credit, why would you be in danger of losing personal assets?
Look at the Red part.
:wall:

That answers that.

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RK,

Send the guy an Email and ask if he is going to pull permits. His response could be very telling here. Let us know what he responds with.

His reply

I havent had to pull a permit yet, it hasnt been a large enough scale to require one yet.

Stay with Mexican workers or at least see what his breakdown will be on his bid?

Can't hurt to see the break down. Bass should be in here on this question, you might want to PM him. He deals with contractors more than I, as I GC my work.

The thing with permits is that they well, suck for ME. I do my own work on a house I will own for 30 years, and quite honestly, I really don't care about the latest changes in the code that come down the pipeline every 3-6 months. I don't want to keep up. I know what I need to do, and I don't need an inspector telling me that the Light switch is 2 inches too high so I have to tear out the wall and redo it all, which means more drywall work as well.

However, it's this exact same mentality that worries me if you hire a GC. I don't pull permits because It's my place and I will live with the problems for years to come, and I don't want to be hassled. Just the same, your GC doesn't want to pull permits because he doesn't want to be hassled if it is wrong. I personally know what is in my walls, where everything is, and what I did and didn't do. Are you going to know what is in the walls when this guy is done? Most likely not. This guy is out, gone, and never has to worry about it again.

Without a permit, there is no accountability. Will it be cheaper, You betcha! Do you care if you get a smoking deal at $1K that burns down the unit, when you might have paid $2K to have it not burn the thing down? That's a grand well spent to me.

No one else is there for you as it is. With a permit process, the County is in this guys back pocket and is the final word. Will the Inspectors piss you off, and I mean YOU personally somewhere along the line, Yes, Absolutely. Bunch of annal....

However, without them, if you don't understand the scope of the work, all you have to go by is your "Spidey Sense".

You could very likely be just fine, and really, the Permit Process (Inspection) really does suck. But it's protection for you.

Goggle the guy, run him through the BBB, ask for the phone number of other satisfied customers. He could be totally legit, but a little legwork on your end could stave off a Nightmare.

good stuff, well in all cases I am not going to pull permits. While I understand the drawbacks, I think they will outweigh them if I insist on permits. I'll just have to keep a closer eye (in my backyard and I work from home now) and be a pain in the *** and be on top of them. I've worked in electrical construction a long time ago and while I am far from an expert, I have a little bit of knowledge, at least I think I do!

Ok, so it comes down to paying more for the gang of Mexicans (labor they are charging $3500 but I have to foot all materials) or this GC (the ONLY thin I have to foot is a few appliances). His mother is a manager of a building supply so he gets "son's discount" and his brother is an electrican. Here's his bid!

RKMoney Residence

Austin, Tx. 78703

Re: Bid for Guest Apartment Remodel

The following is the bid for your guest apartment that we previously discussed.

Electrical $300.00

Insulation $300.00

Sheetrock/Tape/Float/Texture $500.00

Tiling of bathroom floor $300.00

Exterior sealant & drainage issue $240.00

Gutter system for proper “run-off” $220.00

Trimwork (re: baseboards, windows, door, ceiling) $300.00

Plumbing work $200.00

Window replacement $400.00

Various fixtures and installation $200.00

Exterior wall patch $100.00

Range C.W.P.

Refrigerator C.W.P.

A/C Unit C.W.P.

Microwave C.W.P.

Job will start with demolition of inner-ceiling. This will allow for new wiring, installation of lighting, and insulation. Then removal of ALL debris to allow for a proper workspace. (Time frame: 1 day)

Day two will consist of insulation and any interior wall re-enforcement that is necessary. This means any possible bad studs and window area restructuring. (Time frame: 1 day)

Day three will consist of all new wiring, installation of new “sub-panel”, installation of lighting, gang-boxes, switch legs, G.F.I. circuit, individual A/C circuit, and receptacles. (Time frame: 1 to 2 days)

Day four will consist of new window installation to be followed by sheet rocking, taping, and floating, and installation of water-resistant sheet rock in shower area. (Time frame: 1 day)

Day five will consist of sanding and texturing of walls and ceiling, to be followed by painting and trim work. (Time frame: 1 day)

Day six will consist of flooring installation in bathroom, followed by all fixture and appliance installation, to be followed by installation of exterior drainage system to prevent interior water damage. This will include “re-flashing” canopy structure. (Time frame: 1 day)

Day seven will be walk-through and punch-out list to be assured that customer is 100% satisfied with their new remodel.

Upon signing of contract, customer will provide deposit of $1200.00 for various material purchases (re: sheet rock, tape, joint compound, wiring, new receptacles, new switches, sub-panel box and fuses, miscellaneous plumbing fixtures, bathroom vanities, insulation, windows, disposal fees, etc.)

Contractor provides ALL materials with exception of any “C.W.P.” (customer will provide) items.

Total project will be done for the amount of $3060.00 (price does not include “C.W.P.” items.) _____

Upon signing of contract, customer will provide $1200.00. _____

Upon completion of job, customer will provide remaining $1860.00 (upon 100% customer satisfaction of job). ______

Thank you for your consideration.

RLF

R.L.F. Contracting

Thoughts? I don't like fronting that much in in $$ so I may want him to at least produce the work and use the materials THEN give him the $$. I don't want someone running off with over $1k in my cash.

He also provided a reference so I will call and go see his work.

Personal opinion...get the permits pulled. My GC failed to do this (told me he did). Inspector was in to approve the HVAC and noticed some shoddy electrical work. BAM! He was threatening to have my meter pulled. Now I'm going to be out a grand fixing the mess. GC did get his last payment from me. Problem is that if you have a fire, skipping the permit process could come back on you and I doubt any insurance company will pay if they determine that you knowing skipped the permit process. I doubt an LLC would even sheild you in this case, but that's a question for your lawyer.

Regarding money up front...no dice. Why can't he wait one day. Pay him cash at the end of each day once work is done, get a receipt. Cash is faster then your check anyway. I'm sure he has an account or will be paying on credit for the materials. He can always put a lien on your house if you don't pay. I'd even go as far as to offer him a couple of hundred extra to pay this way just for the piece of mind...plus it will speed him along. With the prices this guy is quoting, red flags are going up everywhere.

Thanks! The place is in my backyard, a guest house so to speak and even their prices are so low, even if something happened and I had to get someone else to clean it up, I would still come out way ahead. So, what's the best way to handle the upfront amount (the remaining he wants at closing):

1. Offer him a check of the requested amount on the first day he arrives with the materials.

2. Offer him a bit every day in cash.

I like the check part more since I can always put a stop on it if say he doesn't show up the second day. Cash, you are screwed if he bails. The cash every day thing could be a pain in the tail, don't you think.

In Austin, if you want to do work on your own house without a permit, its generally ok, but everyhting still must be to code. You can even have someone help you under your direction. But hiring out the job like you are doing is illegal. ANd I guarantee you, someone in your neighborhood will tell on you. Then they are going to come and red tag the property, hlating all owrk until inspected and plans okayed. Because you tried to circumvent them, they are not going to be particularly nice or helpful.

Also, since you plan on renting out the unit, I think you need to pull a permit regardless of who does the work. I'm afraid you need to bite the bullet here or you are going to end up losing much more than you save.

Thanks. I think I'll be ok. I've already had some people work on my place (gut out bathroom and dig and redo the pipes leading out) plus I have just about totally gutted out the place without anyone complaining. My closest neighbor actually has a potential rentor so he is geared up that I am going to fix it up nice. The other two places to the North I have let them know (because of drain issues I contacted them) and they are actually having people redo their places as we speak and I don't even know if they have permits or not (didn't see anything posted when I was over and their project is much larger than mine).

Electrical will be done by an electrician and it's a small place plus I won't mind getting my hands dirty to speed it up. There won't be more than a few guys over at one time, not like a bunch of people will be over making more noise than there has been so far.

Just so I am clear on my stance on Permits. I should have pulled 7-9 of them on the project I am working on now. I pulled 4. I was absolutely sweating when an Inspector called me and wanted in the house. It was something I had pulled a permit for, but would have led him into area where I hadn't. I spent half a day quickly redoing/running Gas lines to keep him where I needed to. He could have totally shut me down, and this was the quickest turn around we ever did, and we were under the gun the entire time. I finished a few hours before the tenant moved into the unit. I would have lost out in a big way if it had gone a different way.

I generally ALWAYS get permits for electrical if it is more than simple stuff. A half dozen new plugs, a 220 stove and/or dryer line, forgetaboutit. That stuff is simple. Pulling the knob and tube out of a home and re-running all the wire? I get a permit.

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My wife and I are looking into buying a 2nd home or townhouse as an investment. We would like to rent the home/townhouse for a few years and then sell hoping to make a profit. We have NO experience in this. I am looking for any suggestions and/or help.

First, edit your profile information to include where you are from. That would be a tremendous help as the advice could easily very.
done
First and foremost, FL is not my Bailiwick. I assume that your Home prices have exploded in the last number of years??

With that in mind, someone from a Hot market would have to chime in on what you can do when the Rent just doesn't pay the bills. I don't know how people do it outside of just gambling on appreciation, which is most likely NOT the play going forward. No one knows, but why risk buying a home that doesn't pay for itself, only to have it drop $50K in value in the first few years of ownership.

I would strongly recommend that you go read the message boards at Mr. Land Lord. There are alot of investors on that board that operate in FL, and could give a better answer than I could.

Maybe the best place to start is with a Local PM with a good reputation. BassNBrew who posts here is a Property Manager, and could give some suggestions?

I don't know that I am the guy to help if my assumption on your market is correct??? Jeff operates in a Hotter market. Mine is pretty cold. If you were in the Midwest, I would feel confident in any advice to you.

End of the day, my serious advice to you is to go and spend a week on the Mr. Land Lord Message board. I didn't sleep for a week when I first found the site. Make sure to check out the assest protection MB, as it is just interesting, but the main Q&A is where you want to start reading.

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RK,

Send the guy an Email and ask if he is going to pull permits. His response could be very telling here. Let us know what he responds with.

His reply

I havent had to pull a permit yet, it hasnt been a large enough scale to require one yet.

Stay with Mexican workers or at least see what his breakdown will be on his bid?

Can't hurt to see the break down. Bass should be in here on this question, you might want to PM him. He deals with contractors more than I, as I GC my work.

The thing with permits is that they well, suck for ME. I do my own work on a house I will own for 30 years, and quite honestly, I really don't care about the latest changes in the code that come down the pipeline every 3-6 months. I don't want to keep up. I know what I need to do, and I don't need an inspector telling me that the Light switch is 2 inches too high so I have to tear out the wall and redo it all, which means more drywall work as well.

However, it's this exact same mentality that worries me if you hire a GC. I don't pull permits because It's my place and I will live with the problems for years to come, and I don't want to be hassled. Just the same, your GC doesn't want to pull permits because he doesn't want to be hassled if it is wrong. I personally know what is in my walls, where everything is, and what I did and didn't do. Are you going to know what is in the walls when this guy is done? Most likely not. This guy is out, gone, and never has to worry about it again.

Without a permit, there is no accountability. Will it be cheaper, You betcha! Do you care if you get a smoking deal at $1K that burns down the unit, when you might have paid $2K to have it not burn the thing down? That's a grand well spent to me.

No one else is there for you as it is. With a permit process, the County is in this guys back pocket and is the final word. Will the Inspectors piss you off, and I mean YOU personally somewhere along the line, Yes, Absolutely. Bunch of annal....

However, without them, if you don't understand the scope of the work, all you have to go by is your "Spidey Sense".

You could very likely be just fine, and really, the Permit Process (Inspection) really does suck. But it's protection for you.

Goggle the guy, run him through the BBB, ask for the phone number of other satisfied customers. He could be totally legit, but a little legwork on your end could stave off a Nightmare.

good stuff, well in all cases I am not going to pull permits. While I understand the drawbacks, I think they will outweigh them if I insist on permits. I'll just have to keep a closer eye (in my backyard and I work from home now) and be a pain in the *** and be on top of them. I've worked in electrical construction a long time ago and while I am far from an expert, I have a little bit of knowledge, at least I think I do!

Ok, so it comes down to paying more for the gang of Mexicans (labor they are charging $3500 but I have to foot all materials) or this GC (the ONLY thin I have to foot is a few appliances). His mother is a manager of a building supply so he gets "son's discount" and his brother is an electrican. Here's his bid!

RKMoney Residence

Austin, Tx. 78703

Re: Bid for Guest Apartment Remodel

The following is the bid for your guest apartment that we previously discussed.

Electrical $300.00

Insulation $300.00

Sheetrock/Tape/Float/Texture $500.00

Tiling of bathroom floor $300.00

Exterior sealant & drainage issue $240.00

Gutter system for proper “run-off” $220.00

Trimwork (re: baseboards, windows, door, ceiling) $300.00

Plumbing work $200.00

Window replacement $400.00

Various fixtures and installation $200.00

Exterior wall patch $100.00

Range C.W.P.

Refrigerator C.W.P.

A/C Unit C.W.P.

Microwave C.W.P.

Job will start with demolition of inner-ceiling. This will allow for new wiring, installation of lighting, and insulation. Then removal of ALL debris to allow for a proper workspace. (Time frame: 1 day)

Day two will consist of insulation and any interior wall re-enforcement that is necessary. This means any possible bad studs and window area restructuring. (Time frame: 1 day)

Day three will consist of all new wiring, installation of new “sub-panel”, installation of lighting, gang-boxes, switch legs, G.F.I. circuit, individual A/C circuit, and receptacles. (Time frame: 1 to 2 days)

Day four will consist of new window installation to be followed by sheet rocking, taping, and floating, and installation of water-resistant sheet rock in shower area. (Time frame: 1 day)

Day five will consist of sanding and texturing of walls and ceiling, to be followed by painting and trim work. (Time frame: 1 day)

Day six will consist of flooring installation in bathroom, followed by all fixture and appliance installation, to be followed by installation of exterior drainage system to prevent interior water damage. This will include “re-flashing” canopy structure. (Time frame: 1 day)

Day seven will be walk-through and punch-out list to be assured that customer is 100% satisfied with their new remodel.

Upon signing of contract, customer will provide deposit of $1200.00 for various material purchases (re: sheet rock, tape, joint compound, wiring, new receptacles, new switches, sub-panel box and fuses, miscellaneous plumbing fixtures, bathroom vanities, insulation, windows, disposal fees, etc.)

Contractor provides ALL materials with exception of any “C.W.P.” (customer will provide) items.

Total project will be done for the amount of $3060.00 (price does not include “C.W.P.” items.) _____

Upon signing of contract, customer will provide $1200.00. _____

Upon completion of job, customer will provide remaining $1860.00 (upon 100% customer satisfaction of job). ______

Thank you for your consideration.

RLF

R.L.F. Contracting

Thoughts? I don't like fronting that much in in $$ so I may want him to at least produce the work and use the materials THEN give him the $$. I don't want someone running off with over $1k in my cash.

He also provided a reference so I will call and go see his work.

Personal opinion...get the permits pulled. My GC failed to do this (told me he did). Inspector was in to approve the HVAC and noticed some shoddy electrical work. BAM! He was threatening to have my meter pulled. Now I'm going to be out a grand fixing the mess. GC did get his last payment from me. Problem is that if you have a fire, skipping the permit process could come back on you and I doubt any insurance company will pay if they determine that you knowing skipped the permit process. I doubt an LLC would even sheild you in this case, but that's a question for your lawyer.

Regarding money up front...no dice. Why can't he wait one day. Pay him cash at the end of each day once work is done, get a receipt. Cash is faster then your check anyway. I'm sure he has an account or will be paying on credit for the materials. He can always put a lien on your house if you don't pay. I'd even go as far as to offer him a couple of hundred extra to pay this way just for the piece of mind...plus it will speed him along. With the prices this guy is quoting, red flags are going up everywhere.

Thanks! The place is in my backyard, a guest house so to speak and even their prices are so low, even if something happened and I had to get someone else to clean it up, I would still come out way ahead. So, what's the best way to handle the upfront amount (the remaining he wants at closing):

1. Offer him a check of the requested amount on the first day he arrives with the materials.

2. Offer him a bit every day in cash.

I like the check part more since I can always put a stop on it if say he doesn't show up the second day. Cash, you are screwed if he bails. The cash every day thing could be a pain in the tail, don't you think.

In Austin, if you want to do work on your own house without a permit, its generally ok, but everyhting still must be to code. You can even have someone help you under your direction. But hiring out the job like you are doing is illegal. ANd I guarantee you, someone in your neighborhood will tell on you. Then they are going to come and red tag the property, hlating all owrk until inspected and plans okayed. Because you tried to circumvent them, they are not going to be particularly nice or helpful.

Also, since you plan on renting out the unit, I think you need to pull a permit regardless of who does the work. I'm afraid you need to bite the bullet here or you are going to end up losing much more than you save.

Thanks. I think I'll be ok. I've already had some people work on my place (gut out bathroom and dig and redo the pipes leading out) plus I have just about totally gutted out the place without anyone complaining. My closest neighbor actually has a potential rentor so he is geared up that I am going to fix it up nice. The other two places to the North I have let them know (because of drain issues I contacted them) and they are actually having people redo their places as we speak and I don't even know if they have permits or not (didn't see anything posted when I was over and their project is much larger than mine).

Electrical will be done by an electrician and it's a small place plus I won't mind getting my hands dirty to speed it up. There won't be more than a few guys over at one time, not like a bunch of people will be over making more noise than there has been so far.

Just so I am clear on my stance on Permits. I should have pulled 7-9 of them on the project I am working on now. I pulled 4. I was absolutely sweating when an Inspector called me and wanted in the house. It was something I had pulled a permit for, but would have led him into area where I hadn't. I spent half a day quickly redoing/running Gas lines to keep him where I needed to. He could have totally shut me down, and this was the quickest turn around we ever did, and we were under the gun the entire time. I finished a few hours before the tenant moved into the unit. I would have lost out in a big way if it had gone a different way.

I generally ALWAYS get permits for electrical if it is more than simple stuff. A half dozen new plugs, a 220 stove and/or dryer line, forgetaboutit. That stuff is simple. Pulling the knob and tube out of a home and re-running all the wire? I get a permit.

Can't get any easier than fixing up my place, honesty. That's why I was getting ticked when GC's were throwing me 30k bids like it was nothing. If I had the time, my and a couple of friends could have done most of it but I've got to work and don't want to wait many months to get it done.
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Police: Disgruntled landlord shoots tenant in neckBY BRANDON BAINNewsday Staff WriterAugust 1, 2006, 9:03 PM EDTAn argument over rent money turned violent for one tenant when his landlord shot him in the neck in the parking lot of a store in Ridge, Suffolk police said Tuesday.Lucien Rivera, 44, of Brentwood, was arrested Monday night about one hour after he allegedly shot his tenant, Sean Hughes, 30, about 9:50 p.m. in a parking lot at the Ridge Quick Mart on Route 25, police said.Hughes was airlifted to Stony Brook University Hospital, where he underwent surgery for the gunshot wound.He was reported in stable condition Tuesday evening, a hospital spokeswoman said.Yusuf Bektas, whose brother runs the Ridge Quick Mart, said he stepped out of the store to get a breath of fresh air when he noticed a car in the parking lot.When the car sped off, Bektas said he found a man shot on the ground in the lot."Help me, help me, my landlord shot me," Bektas said Hughes was saying when he found him."How they came to meet at the Quick Mart is something we're still investigating," said Det. Sgt. John Best of the Seventh Precinct, who said a witness flagged down officers at around 10 p.m.Best said Hughes was conscious when police responded and was able to tell them who shot him and why.Police arrested Rivera as he was trying to leave his home at 13 Doolittle St. in Brentwood, where police said they recovered a .25-caliber pistol.They said they didn't know Tuesday how much money the two may have been fighting over.Best said he believed that Hughes had been living in a house near the Quick Mart for about a year.Rivera was charged with first-degree criminal use of a firearm and was held overnight at the Seventh Precinct.He is scheduled to be arraigned today at First District Court in Central Islip.

I'll bet this guy pays his rent on time going forward. :mellow:

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What should I be looking at on the mrlandlord website? Every link I click on seems to be selling something, and the overall design of the site looks like one of those scam artists sites.

I should have been more specific. When I found the MB, I didn't click on any of the other sales stuff for maybe 6 months. Over all, I've in total bought one Book from the site in a couple years. I also use a different Credit check company than they have. I'm not saying buy anything unless you wish to.

The site is an income stream for Jeffery Taylor, a National Speaker based out of VA. If your group is big enough, he will come and speak for FREE. He doesn't talk about Buying homes, acquiring property, he has no program on how to make a million, nothing like that. He speaks about being a LL exclusively, how to be a better LL. Obviously, he is trying to drive traffic to his Website which is where he makes his money. But if your group is big enough, he will come and speak for free anywhere in the country about just being a LL. I don't have a "gold" membership, don't pay anything, and in the entire time I have bought one book when it was a $10.00 special. Leigh Robinson's "Landlording" which is basically a LLing for Dummies book. I used it alot early on, and still go back for thoughts on forms and such. It was a well spent $10.00. I am signed up for the weekly Free Email newsletter, and about once a month there is something I will find pretty useful.

Anyway, the site has a total of $10.00 from me in some 2 years and that's before he paid the author of the book off. I've gotten information and help that I would place a value of Thousands and thousands from the site. I am an exponentially better LL due to just reading that MB for 20 minutes a day.

Message board

The link above puts you on the message board. You don't have to register. You can click on FL specific posts. I just use the MB along with the 3 Links at the top called:

Landlord/Tenant State Laws - Asset Protection Q&A - Tax Matters Q&A

Sorry to confuse, certainly not trying to help them sell anything. It's a very helpful MB.

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Where can I find step by step instructions on how to complete a FSBO?

First, please update your profile to include the area you are operating in. It seriously does help.Need tons more info here. Selling? How far along are you?
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I haven't been around much for then last couple of weeks. I've been busy getting my RE License and trying to get setup with broker, so I will update you guys on that.

I should have been able to get my RE license in a few days. That's the whole time it took me to complete their required coursework. And I am already licensed thhru the state as an apprasier. But for some reason our state feels required to drag out out for close to a month with bureaucratic delays inserted generously throughout the process.

Anyway, I told you guys about 1% Realty and how I really liked their concept- buyers and sellers paid $500 up front, but were charged only 1% commission (vs. standard 3%). There were a couple of loopholes where they usually only got about 1.5% selling and 1% buying, but still a good deal for the consumer and good for the realtor in helping to weed out the tire-kickckers (only those serious would be willing to pay $500 up front).

Well, these guys just were not giving me the attention I felt I needed. Phone calls were not returned for days. My orientation was postposed over 3x over 3 weeks. I am not saying the guys were not legitimate but I was really starting to question how good of a fit they would be for me.

I the meantime I get a letter from a broker who specializes in investment properties. We have lunch and hit it off pretty well. HE says he deals mainly in investment properties, but he can tell I am excited about some of the aspects of the 1% brokerage. He offers to let me setup a branch office under him that I can set whatever rules I want (as long as they are legal).

So here's what I am thinking of setting up under him:

Call the agency "Split My Fee REalty." Offer a 1-2% rebate to buyers or sellers at closing. Charge a $300 fee to initiate services (repaid at closing). My supervising broker takes 20% off the top plus $45 per transaction for E&O insurance. Broker provides full backoffice support. I got the website splitmyfee.com . I like the name and think It really describes the business model to the typical consumer.

I want the concept solidified asap, so I can implement next week. Any feedback is GREATLY appreciated, so I can get it as right as possible the first time and avoid redundant setup and printing costs. What do you guys think? Thanks

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I haven't been around much for then last couple of weeks. I've been busy getting my RE License and trying to get setup with broker, so I will update you guys on that.I should have been able to get my RE license in a few days. That's the whole time it took me to complete their required coursework. And I am already licensed thhru the state as an apprasier. But for some reason our state feels required to drag out out for close to a month with bureaucratic delays inserted generously throughout the process. Anyway, I told you guys about 1% Realty and how I really liked their concept- buyers and sellers paid $500 up front, but were charged only 1% commission (vs. standard 3%). There were a couple of loopholes where they usually only got about 1.5% selling and 1% buying, but still a good deal for the consumer and good for the realtor in helping to weed out the tire-kickckers (only those serious would be willing to pay $500 up front).Well, these guys just were not giving me the attention I felt I needed. Phone calls were not returned for days. My orientation was postposed over 3x over 3 weeks. I am not saying the guys were not legitimate but I was really starting to question how good of a fit they would be for me.I the meantime I get a letter from a broker who specializes in investment properties. We have lunch and hit it off pretty well. HE says he deals mainly in investment properties, but he can tell I am excited about some of the aspects of the 1% brokerage. He offers to let me setup a branch office under him that I can set whatever rules I want (as long as they are legal).So here's what I am thinking of setting up under him:Call the agency "Split My Fee REalty." Offer a 1-2% rebate to buyers or sellers at closing. Charge a $300 fee to initiate services (repaid at closing). My supervising broker takes 20% off the top plus $45 per transaction for E&O insurance. Broker provides full backoffice support. I got the website splitmyfee.com . I like the name and think It really describes the business model to the typical consumer. I want the concept solidified asap, so I can implement next week. Any feedback is GREATLY appreciated, so I can get it as right as possible the first time and avoid redundant setup and printing costs. What do you guys think? Thanks

Cos, we need to hang out sometime and definitely start a fantasy football league and have an in-house (or in-bar) draft.Getting back to RE, where do you recommend getting your license? I can't think that it will hurt getting one.I have to say I am SHOCKED at the amount of RE agents who do NOT work on Sundays. Also, I have called up the seller's agent on a few investment properties and they flat out told me they don't want to waste their time showing me the place then I end up not being able to qualify so if I want to see the place I must get a RE agent to show it to me. Incredible! I told them I could still put down an offer and end up not qualifying and can't believe taking 30 minutes out of their time is considered "a waste" when the possibility of me buying it is pretty solid.As for your concept, sounds good to me although from the people I have met who are big time into the buy/flip biz here in Austin, marketing and hustle are KEY. You can have the nice website and nice fees but so what if nobody knows about it? I also think that the people who are serious about getting property here are trying to bypass as many RE agents as possible (meaning skip getting a buyer's agent and directly talk to the seller's agent) so a nice website is nice but for the serious players, you really don't care about an agent's website is like or looks like.
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I haven't been around much for then last couple of weeks. I've been busy getting my RE License and trying to get setup with broker, so I will update you guys on that.I should have been able to get my RE license in a few days. That's the whole time it took me to complete their required coursework. And I am already licensed thhru the state as an apprasier. But for some reason our state feels required to drag out out for close to a month with bureaucratic delays inserted generously throughout the process. Anyway, I told you guys about 1% Realty and how I really liked their concept- buyers and sellers paid $500 up front, but were charged only 1% commission (vs. standard 3%). There were a couple of loopholes where they usually only got about 1.5% selling and 1% buying, but still a good deal for the consumer and good for the realtor in helping to weed out the tire-kickckers (only those serious would be willing to pay $500 up front).Well, these guys just were not giving me the attention I felt I needed. Phone calls were not returned for days. My orientation was postposed over 3x over 3 weeks. I am not saying the guys were not legitimate but I was really starting to question how good of a fit they would be for me.I the meantime I get a letter from a broker who specializes in investment properties. We have lunch and hit it off pretty well. HE says he deals mainly in investment properties, but he can tell I am excited about some of the aspects of the 1% brokerage. He offers to let me setup a branch office under him that I can set whatever rules I want (as long as they are legal).So here's what I am thinking of setting up under him:Call the agency "Split My Fee REalty." Offer a 1-2% rebate to buyers or sellers at closing. Charge a $300 fee to initiate services (repaid at closing). My supervising broker takes 20% off the top plus $45 per transaction for E&O insurance. Broker provides full backoffice support. I got the website splitmyfee.com . I like the name and think It really describes the business model to the typical consumer. I want the concept solidified asap, so I can implement next week. Any feedback is GREATLY appreciated, so I can get it as right as possible the first time and avoid redundant setup and printing costs. What do you guys think? Thanks

cos...Interesting to watch this evolve. Dealing with the state here is a major pain too. I'll be blunt here...I don't like the name "split my fee realty". Fee has a negetive conotation to most. I'd tried to approach it from the other direction such as "cash back realty" or "cash back at close" or "rebate realty". Hopefully you'll get other comments as I could be way off base here. Also, your fee split premises / cash back premise only applies to the buyers side, when selling you're just offering discounted fees and not giving anything back.One other thought...have you considered going to work for a big name firm to soak up all their training and tools before spliting off on your own? :ph34r:
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I haven't been around much for then last couple of weeks. I've been busy getting my RE License and trying to get setup with broker, so I will update you guys on that.I should have been able to get my RE license in a few days. That's the whole time it took me to complete their required coursework. And I am already licensed thhru the state as an apprasier. But for some reason our state feels required to drag out out for close to a month with bureaucratic delays inserted generously throughout the process. Anyway, I told you guys about 1% Realty and how I really liked their concept- buyers and sellers paid $500 up front, but were charged only 1% commission (vs. standard 3%). There were a couple of loopholes where they usually only got about 1.5% selling and 1% buying, but still a good deal for the consumer and good for the realtor in helping to weed out the tire-kickckers (only those serious would be willing to pay $500 up front).Well, these guys just were not giving me the attention I felt I needed. Phone calls were not returned for days. My orientation was postposed over 3x over 3 weeks. I am not saying the guys were not legitimate but I was really starting to question how good of a fit they would be for me.I the meantime I get a letter from a broker who specializes in investment properties. We have lunch and hit it off pretty well. HE says he deals mainly in investment properties, but he can tell I am excited about some of the aspects of the 1% brokerage. He offers to let me setup a branch office under him that I can set whatever rules I want (as long as they are legal).So here's what I am thinking of setting up under him:Call the agency "Split My Fee REalty." Offer a 1-2% rebate to buyers or sellers at closing. Charge a $300 fee to initiate services (repaid at closing). My supervising broker takes 20% off the top plus $45 per transaction for E&O insurance. Broker provides full backoffice support. I got the website splitmyfee.com . I like the name and think It really describes the business model to the typical consumer. I want the concept solidified asap, so I can implement next week. Any feedback is GREATLY appreciated, so I can get it as right as possible the first time and avoid redundant setup and printing costs. What do you guys think? Thanks

cos...Interesting to watch this evolve. Dealing with the state here is a major pain too. I'll be blunt here...I don't like the name "split my fee realty". Fee has a negetive conotation to most. I'd tried to approach it from the other direction such as "cash back realty" or "cash back at close" or "rebate realty". Hopefully you'll get other comments as I could be way off base here. Also, your fee split premises / cash back premise only applies to the buyers side, when selling you're just offering discounted fees and not giving anything back.One other thought...have you considered going to work for a big name firm to soak up all their training and tools before spliting off on your own? :ph34r:
I'll be blunt here...I don't like the name "split my fee realty". Fee has a negetive conotation to most. I'd tried to approach it from the other direction such as "cash back realty" or "cash back at close" or "rebate realty". >>>> Good thoughts. That's whay I am asking here. I like the "cash back" and "rebate" quite a bit. Once i get more feedback, I'll put up a poll.Also, your fee split premises / cash back premise only applies to the buyers side, when selling you're just offering discounted fees and not giving anything back.>>>> Technically, yes. I presumed that would be understood, but you do have a point. Split fee would be more encompassing I think than rebate or cashback.
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One other thought...have you considered going to work for a big name firm to soak up all their training and tools before spliting off on your own?

>>>>> I have no desire to do this. Might be a good idea, but I am unwilling to even consider it. I will be working under the tutelage of an experienced broker (for 20%), I think that's all I should need.

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Where can I find step by step instructions on how to complete a FSBO?

First, please update your profile to include the area you are operating in. It seriously does help.Need tons more info here. Selling? How far along are you?
I have owned the house a little over a year, I just recently rented the house out and the renter says he will want to buy 6-12 months timeframe. I had to pull the house off of the market because with the agent I had to over price the house just to break even so I couldn't sell using the agent.
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Where can I find step by step instructions on how to complete a FSBO?

First, please update your profile to include the area you are operating in. It seriously does help.Need tons more info here. Selling? How far along are you?
I have owned the house a little over a year, I just recently rented the house out and the renter says he will want to buy 6-12 months timeframe. I had to pull the house off of the market because with the agent I had to over price the house just to break even so I couldn't sell using the agent.
This is an easy one then.If you have a renter that wants to buy, give him a new lease called a lease / option.Write up a sales price you'll take a year from now and ask the renter for $$ now for option consideration (non refundable - NROC). Typically 3-5% of the sales price.Give him a year to buy, and if it expires he owes 2% more to extend the option. You can even raise the rent $100 and give him $75 of it towards buying the house.Have a title company draw up lease option contract (or a local RE lawyer). Done.Then - get the renter hooked up with a lender to see if they can buy the house. If they can, close. If they can't, have the lender work w/ them towards getting their act together to qualify in 6-12 months.Make the credit repair / lender part mandatory for the lease.Good luck.
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Where can I find step by step instructions on how to complete a FSBO?

First, please update your profile to include the area you are operating in. It seriously does help.Need tons more info here. Selling? How far along are you?
I have owned the house a little over a year, I just recently rented the house out and the renter says he will want to buy 6-12 months timeframe. I had to pull the house off of the market because with the agent I had to over price the house just to break even so I couldn't sell using the agent.
This is an easy one then.If you have a renter that wants to buy, give him a new lease called a lease / option.Write up a sales price you'll take a year from now and ask the renter for $$ now for option consideration (non refundable - NROC). Typically 3-5% of the sales price.Give him a year to buy, and if it expires he owes 2% more to extend the option. You can even raise the rent $100 and give him $75 of it towards buying the house.Have a title company draw up lease option contract (or a local RE lawyer). Done.Then - get the renter hooked up with a lender to see if they can buy the house. If they can, close. If they can't, have the lender work w/ them towards getting their act together to qualify in 6-12 months.Make the credit repair / lender part mandatory for the lease.Good luck.
Thanks but back to my original question what are the steps to do a for sale by owner? Where do I get the forms from? Can you break down the steps I need to take as far as paperwork? I have no idea how this works. Edited by I'mStoneColdStunning
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Where can I find step by step instructions on how to complete a FSBO?

First, please update your profile to include the area you are operating in. It seriously does help.

Need tons more info here. Selling? How far along are you?

I have owned the house a little over a year, I just recently rented the house out and the renter says he will want to buy 6-12 months timeframe. I had to pull the house off of the market because with the agent I had to over price the house just to break even so I couldn't sell using the agent.
The current renter wants to buy it??

This is EASY :moneybag:

First, if you are with a Realtor, Cancel the contract at the end of the term. You DON"T want an Agent involved in this.

Go to your renter, and tell them that you are fine with them buying, and you want to write up the contract now. The reason is that this will determine if he is just blowing you smoke. The usual tenant scam here is to say he is going to buy it, so you lay off him, and give him breaks, don't worry about the condition, and so on. Then the time comes, he asks for more time, strings you along, and at the end of the day, buys some other home because yours is now trashed.

Get him on contract.

Your contract is going to basically say that Tenant agrees to buy house at X price after another say 12 months of renting. Tie down a date. Since a first time home buyer is going to need more time, I would put it 14 months out, or say October 1st 2007 at the latest, but it can be purchased starting August 1st 2007. You want a BALLOON payment. Meaning that you are paid off in full the total of the agreed upon price next year. Do not run a land contract. Do not do anything that gives him equity in the property at this point.

Also, get earnest money, I would call it a Holding FEE. Ideally, you would get 10% of the purchase price. This won't happen, but it would be ideal. Try and at least get 3%. The reason you want these %'s up front is to help this deal work. The more you get now, the better. At 10%, you now hold the Down payment he will need when he goes to buy. Couple of different schools of thought here, but if I wanted to sell, I would credit to non-refundable FEE towards his closing. You have 10% up front for a year, and he has his down payment all ready made from the bank's eyes. When the time comes, he only needs closing costs. At 3%, he at least has the down for an FHA loan (ProNinja or someone else needs to confirm this)

Now, you won't get that much, because he doesn't have that much. You MIGHT get a couple grand. Push for more, but accept the 2-3 grand. If he can't come up with that in a few months, he will NEVER be able to come up with traditional closing costs in a hot market like Vegas. If YOU REALLY want/need to sell it, surely some of these other guys here can help you with the creative stuff to get it sold.

You want that 2-3 grand because it is a Non-refundable Holding FEE. If he walks away, you keep it. Lord knows this type of renter is classically going to do a few grand in damage anyway. At least you are covered. Also, the fear of losing a few grand will keep in the deal.

Now, he is going to balk at the couple of grand. You explain that it gets him the following:

First, you can't sell the house period until August 1st of next year. It can't be sold out from under him.

Secondly, he has the right of first refusal from August 1st until October 1st. You have to sell to him, unless he doesn't want it, and you can sell on the open market.

And lastly, here is where you hook him. You have an agreed upon price. Should the value of the property go up some $40K, that is his equity. What do you care? You are getting the price you want, and it's paying for itself for a year, giving you equity no matter what happens in the market. The value drops $40K, and he walks away, you still have a few grand up front, and the place was paid for a year by the tenant.

DO NOT let the rent equal payments for him. Do NOT give him even a hope at equity, you need a Balloon payment to be free and clear all at once, and until that time, the property is yours in every way, and he is a renter.

If he wants to buy, get some money in your pocket, and lock him in. If he balks, you will know the real story now instead of some 12 months down the line.

Anyway, the more detail you give on anything, the more you can be helped. Always give as much detail as you can.

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Where can I find step by step instructions on how to complete a FSBO?

First, please update your profile to include the area you are operating in. It seriously does help.Need tons more info here. Selling? How far along are you?
I have owned the house a little over a year, I just recently rented the house out and the renter says he will want to buy 6-12 months timeframe. I had to pull the house off of the market because with the agent I had to over price the house just to break even so I couldn't sell using the agent.
This is an easy one then.If you have a renter that wants to buy, give him a new lease called a lease / option.Write up a sales price you'll take a year from now and ask the renter for $$ now for option consideration (non refundable - NROC). Typically 3-5% of the sales price.Give him a year to buy, and if it expires he owes 2% more to extend the option. You can even raise the rent $100 and give him $75 of it towards buying the house.Have a title company draw up lease option contract (or a local RE lawyer). Done.Then - get the renter hooked up with a lender to see if they can buy the house. If they can, close. If they can't, have the lender work w/ them towards getting their act together to qualify in 6-12 months.Make the credit repair / lender part mandatory for the lease.Good luck.
Thanks but back to my original question what are the steps to do a for sale by owner? Where do I get the forms from? Can you break down the steps I need to take as far as paperwork? I have no idea how this works.
PM me with an Email address, and I will send you the basic forms I have for a straight FSBO. However, your's is different, and Jeff might be a better source. You need to get a title company involved. That would be your cheapest option, and they will keep everything legal.
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Where can I find step by step instructions on how to complete a FSBO?

First, please update your profile to include the area you are operating in. It seriously does help.Need tons more info here. Selling? How far along are you?
I have owned the house a little over a year, I just recently rented the house out and the renter says he will want to buy 6-12 months timeframe. I had to pull the house off of the market because with the agent I had to over price the house just to break even so I couldn't sell using the agent.
This is an easy one then.If you have a renter that wants to buy, give him a new lease called a lease / option.Write up a sales price you'll take a year from now and ask the renter for $$ now for option consideration (non refundable - NROC). Typically 3-5% of the sales price.Give him a year to buy, and if it expires he owes 2% more to extend the option. You can even raise the rent $100 and give him $75 of it towards buying the house.Have a title company draw up lease option contract (or a local RE lawyer). Done.Then - get the renter hooked up with a lender to see if they can buy the house. If they can, close. If they can't, have the lender work w/ them towards getting their act together to qualify in 6-12 months.Make the credit repair / lender part mandatory for the lease.Good luck.
Awesome comment about getting the renter in front of a lender as part of the contract to even see if he can buy. Last thing you want to do is lock in and then find out his credit score is a 497 in a year from now. :thumbup:
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Where can I find step by step instructions on how to complete a FSBO?

First, please update your profile to include the area you are operating in. It seriously does help.Need tons more info here. Selling? How far along are you?
I have owned the house a little over a year, I just recently rented the house out and the renter says he will want to buy 6-12 months timeframe. I had to pull the house off of the market because with the agent I had to over price the house just to break even so I couldn't sell using the agent.
This is an easy one then.If you have a renter that wants to buy, give him a new lease called a lease / option.Write up a sales price you'll take a year from now and ask the renter for $$ now for option consideration (non refundable - NROC). Typically 3-5% of the sales price.Give him a year to buy, and if it expires he owes 2% more to extend the option. You can even raise the rent $100 and give him $75 of it towards buying the house.Have a title company draw up lease option contract (or a local RE lawyer). Done.Then - get the renter hooked up with a lender to see if they can buy the house. If they can, close. If they can't, have the lender work w/ them towards getting their act together to qualify in 6-12 months.Make the credit repair / lender part mandatory for the lease.Good luck.
Be sure to get this recorded if it's required in your state. An option in my state is NOT valid unless it's recorded.
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Where can I find step by step instructions on how to complete a FSBO?

First, please update your profile to include the area you are operating in. It seriously does help.

Need tons more info here. Selling? How far along are you?

I have owned the house a little over a year, I just recently rented the house out and the renter says he will want to buy 6-12 months timeframe. I had to pull the house off of the market because with the agent I had to over price the house just to break even so I couldn't sell using the agent.
The current renter wants to buy it??

This is EASY :moneybag:

First, if you are with a Realtor, Cancel the contract at the end of the term. You DON"T want an Agent involved in this.

Go to your renter, and tell them that you are fine with them buying, and you want to write up the contract now. The reason is that this will determine if he is just blowing you smoke. The usual tenant scam here is to say he is going to buy it, so you lay off him, and give him breaks, don't worry about the condition, and so on. Then the time comes, he asks for more time, strings you along, and at the end of the day, buys some other home because yours is now trashed.

Get him on contract.

Your contract is going to basically say that Tenant agrees to buy house at X price after another say 12 months of renting. Tie down a date. Since a first time home buyer is going to need more time, I would put it 14 months out, or say October 1st 2007 at the latest, but it can be purchased starting August 1st 2007. You want a BALLOON payment. Meaning that you are paid off in full the total of the agreed upon price next year. Do not run a land contract. Do not do anything that gives him equity in the property at this point.

Also, get earnest money, I would call it a Holding FEE. Ideally, you would get 10% of the purchase price. This won't happen, but it would be ideal. Try and at least get 3%. The reason you want these %'s up front is to help this deal work. The more you get now, the better. At 10%, you now hold the Down payment he will need when he goes to buy. Couple of different schools of thought here, but if I wanted to sell, I would credit to non-refundable FEE towards his closing. You have 10% up front for a year, and he has his down payment all ready made from the bank's eyes. When the time comes, he only needs closing costs. At 3%, he at least has the down for an FHA loan (ProNinja or someone else needs to confirm this)

Now, you won't get that much, because he doesn't have that much. You MIGHT get a couple grand. Push for more, but accept the 2-3 grand. If he can't come up with that in a few months, he will NEVER be able to come up with traditional closing costs in a hot market like Vegas. If YOU REALLY want/need to sell it, surely some of these other guys here can help you with the creative stuff to get it sold.

You want that 2-3 grand because it is a Non-refundable Holding FEE. If he walks away, you keep it. Lord knows this type of renter is classically going to do a few grand in damage anyway. At least you are covered. Also, the fear of losing a few grand will keep in the deal.

Now, he is going to balk at the couple of grand. You explain that it gets him the following:

First, you can't sell the house period until August 1st of next year. It can't be sold out from under him.

Secondly, he has the right of first refusal from August 1st until October 1st. You have to sell to him, unless he doesn't want it, and you can sell on the open market.

And lastly, here is where you hook him. You have an agreed upon price. Should the value of the property go up some $40K, that is his equity. What do you care? You are getting the price you want, and it's paying for itself for a year, giving you equity no matter what happens in the market. The value drops $40K, and he walks away, you still have a few grand up front, and the place was paid for a year by the tenant.

DO NOT let the rent equal payments for him. Do NOT give him even a hope at equity, you need a Balloon payment to be free and clear all at once, and until that time, the property is yours in every way, and he is a renter.

If he wants to buy, get some money in your pocket, and lock him in. If he balks, you will know the real story now instead of some 12 months down the line.

Anyway, the more detail you give on anything, the more you can be helped. Always give as much detail as you can.

This is pretty much correct.

The "FEE" is basically an NROC - Non-Refundable Option Consideration.

This is a Lease / Option transaction.

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