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Cleveland Browns (11 Viewers)

Maybe I am mistaken but I thought Mayfield's contract ran through 2022 so if the want to extend him it has to happen before next season ends right?  Otherwise he'll be an UFA.

If he has a breakout season in 2022 it will be Mayfield holding all of the cards.  You may get your man but you're going to have to shell out a $300+ million contract with at least half of that guaranteed.  That's a lot of cash but maybe he will be worth it, it is a risk though.  There will also be other teams bidding for his services too.

On the other hand if Mayfield disappoints the Browns will be in the same situation in 2023 as the Steelers will be in 2022.

As I said it will be interesting to see what happens.  Not just the Browns and Steelers but also the Ravens who are facing a similar situation.
You know teams can franchise players and more  than likely Baker's reps won't be seeking a long term contract since he won't get it so they may work out an agreeable compromise. 

The most well thought out takes I've seen involve a three year deal, two guaranteed with a third  year option in the $10 $15 million range which is a far cry from the  $40 to $45 million range that was being  talked about before the season and when many were jumping the Browns front office for not extending him sooner because they thought it would cost extra by this time. 

A prudent decision to wait .

 
Maybe I am mistaken but I thought Mayfield's contract ran through 2022 so if the want to extend him it has to happen before next season ends right?  Otherwise he'll be an UFA.

If he has a breakout season in 2022 it will be Mayfield holding all of the cards.  You may get your man but you're going to have to shell out a $300+ million contract with at least half of that guaranteed.  That's a lot of cash but maybe he will be worth it, it is a risk though.  There will also be other teams bidding for his services too.

On the other hand if Mayfield disappoints the Browns will be in the same situation in 2023 as the Steelers will be in 2022.

As I said it will be interesting to see what happens.  Not just the Browns and Steelers but also the Ravens who are facing a similar situation.
Help me understand why Mayfield breaking out in 2022 and requiring a massive extension is a potential bad outcome. 

 
It is not a completely 100% equal comparison to the Browns pass block win rate is better.  It is not equal because Joe Burrow does not have a broken/dislocated shoulder that he's been playing with since the second game of the year and he's did not have a heel issue that has impacted his scrambling ability and he did not lose his top WR and we know that his  #2 WR has not been gimpy all year. 

Its not apples to apples because we see  that Joe has Tee Higgins and Offensive Rookie Of The Year candidate Ja'Mar Chase AND Tyler Boyd as the QB of a passing attack that is healthy and humming.  In that high powered passing attack Joe has thrown for over 4,600 yards and 34 TDs compared to injured Baker Mayfield's 3,000 yards and 17 TDs.  

The Browns  entire offense  has been impacted by Baker's injury up to and including to setting up passes, i.e. pass protection, based on 'trying' to protect Baker by using misdirection/short passes/roll outs/etc. just to protect Baker.  We use more 12 and 13 personnel than any other  team, we run more than any other team.  Its how  the offense is built.  We aren't running 3 and 4 wideouts in a heavy passing attack where  pass rushers can tee-off and have  the advantage which would directly impact pass rush win rate.
Such silly talk and not a hot take of "Baker SUCKS!" 

 
Bracie Smathers said:
Before Baker said he was injured I knew that their was something wrong and speculated he was injured.

Why?

It was obvious.  Some who still have no clue how to read the room actually think an NFL QB playing with a broken shoulder, who is wearing a brace, who had to sit a game, came back, toughed out the season and gradually wore down and looked worn out has shown his true value.  

Not sure if people watch NFL games or just fart out hot takes while smoking crack but for those who do watch the NFL and saw last night's game they saw a QB under insane pressure with an open barn door at RT who gave up a minimum of 5 sacks before factoring in the poor play of the LT.   

The Browns offensive line was considered one of the best if not  thee best in the league before the season when they were healthy but guess what?  They never played one full game together ALL YEAR.

Oh you mean you CAN factor injuries into making a proper evaluation and ITS NOT AN EXCUES?

Yeah.  Injuries are data for evaluation and just like the O-Line is much better than what it showed after injuries the same thing applies to the QB.

We don't need a top-five or even a top-ten QB to win with the O-Line, running game, and defense.  

We need a top 12 to 15 QB and that is Baker when healthy.  

Now that people forced out OBJ creating a huge hole at WR we need to address WR and add that to a healthy O-Line and healthy QB and we'll see a completely different outcome.
Assuming Baker is as hurt as it appears, why is he then trying to run a guy over last night and leading with his bad shoulder? That is the mark of someone who simply makes bad decisions, and being a bad decision maker has been one of the main criticism I have seen made about him over the years.  It is hard to trust a guy who makes bad decisions to be your franchise QB.  I get that Browns had started like 39 QBs in 10 years (roughly) before drafting Baker, so it is hard to jump ship on a guy who has showed glimpses of greatness (usually when everything around him is perfect), but the Browns will be dead in the water if they pay that guy big money in the next year or two.  It is hard for teams who pay actual great QBs big money to keep talent good enough to make deep playoff runs, but giving the farm to a guy who has shown to be no better than an average NFL starter (at his very best) is a recipe for disaster, IMO. 

 
Assuming Baker is as hurt as it appears, why is he then trying to run a guy over last night and leading with his bad shoulder? That is the mark of someone who simply makes bad decisions,
Teddy Bridgewater has been hurt all year just like Baker.  Teddy Bridgewater was placed in a situation to make an agressive tackle.

Teddy Bridgewater made a business decision

Teddy was crucified and removed as a starter and probably won't be starting again. 

I get that Browns had started like 39 QBs in 10 years (roughly) before drafting Baker, so it is hard to jump ship on a guy who has showed glimpses of greatness (usually when everything around him is perfect), but the Browns will be dead in the water if they pay that guy big money in the next year or two.  It is hard for teams who pay actual great QBs big money to keep talent good enough to make deep playoff runs, but giving the farm to a guy who has shown to be no better than an average NFL starter (at his very best) is a recipe for disaster, IMO. 
Um, the supporting cast in the passing game sucked this year.  SUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKED!  The offensive line that everyone 'assumed' was the best or top-5 at worst never played one full game together all year.  You saw what happened in Pittsburgh.

Before the season the offensive line was the key IF THEY STAYED HEALTHY!!!!!!  I showed the value we 'could' expect if the line remained HEALTHY and INTACT for 6 games:  From this summer I expected a big return from the O-Line.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Since 1971 their have only been 34 teams who had continuity of a minimum of 6 games of their 11 starters on offense from the previous year. 

All but three of those 34 teams improved their points per game.

Right now the 2021 Cleveland Browns would become the 35th team since 1971 to have the exact same starters on offense if they stay together for at least 6 games.

Check out the chart.

LINK to chart

... No surprise, but most teams who bring everyone back on offense were already good at offense! 29 of the 34 teams were coming off a season where they scored more points per game than the NFL average.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

People fail to understand the devasting impact losing both LTs in the first game had on the passing game.  

The offensive line went from the best to one of the worst.  HUUUUUGE impact.  Lets look at the WRs.

The receivers SUUUUUUUUUCKED all year.  OBJ was still not healthy early on and Jarvis got injured in the first game.  DPJ failed to live up to expectations and Schwartz was awful.  Higgins is just not that good, he is slow, fails to get separation, isn't strong or want-it-enough to fight for contested balls.  We have NOTHING at the WR position and I don't see anything developing in the pipeline so I anticipate a proven veteran WR will be priority #1 with our top FA dollars and we'll target WR in the draft.

Do you think the running game somehow means the O-Line can pass-pro or the WRs can get separation and make contested catches?  Did you see how turrible Austin Hooper was all year?  Did you see OBJ flake out on the team?  Did you see Schwartz turtle on the catch leading to the interception that lead to Baker's injury?  Do you wonder why Higginns got cut and no one picked him up allowing us to resign him at a cheaper contract?  We have an overpriced Landry who can't remain  healthy and NOTHING else at WR.  We SUUUUUUUUUUCK at WR.  

Don't even try to make an argument that we have even average talent in the passing game to support the QB.  We don't, we have nothing.

You don't make the mistake of getting angry and acting like a petulant child and smacking the QB  because HE MAKES ME MAD.  HE IS THE ISSUE, not the pathetic offensive line or non-existent receivers.  No, I'm mad at the INJURED QB.  Come on.

 
MAC_32 said:
Help me understand why Mayfield breaking out in 2022 and requiring a massive extension is a potential bad outcome. 


Obviously a Mayfield breakout in 2022 would be great for the Browns for next season.  As far as the massive extension it depends on whether 2022 is an outlier or the beginning of a string of great seasons.

If the Browns truly believe that Mayfield is a franchise back they would be better off extending him now before he has the breakout season and becomes a UFA.   

I would be surprised if Mayfield would agree on a 3 year extension this offseason that only pays $10-$15 million per season especially since his base salary in 2022 is almost $19 million.  I mean he would really be betting against himself taking that kind of deal.   More than likely a Mayfield extension now would be in the $20-$22 million range which would still be a good deal for a franchise QB but again the Browns would have to make that leap of fate before the season starts.

Of course they would still have to option of franchising Mayfield in 2023 if he breaks out next year.  That would likely be closer to $30 million but they would have their guy.

 
Obviously a Mayfield breakout in 2022 would be great for the Browns for next season.  As far as the massive extension it depends on whether 2022 is an outlier or the beginning of a string of great seasons.

If the Browns truly believe that Mayfield is a franchise back they would be better off extending him now before he has the breakout season and becomes a UFA.   

I would be surprised if Mayfield would agree on a 3 year extension this offseason that only pays $10-$15 million per season especially since his base salary in 2022 is almost $19 million.  I mean he would really be betting against himself taking that kind of deal.   More than likely a Mayfield extension now would be in the $20-$22 million range which would still be a good deal for a franchise QB but again the Browns would have to make that leap of fate before the season starts.

Of course they would still have to option of franchising Mayfield in 2023 if he breaks out next year.  That would likely be closer to $30 million but they would have their guy.
Given the body of work, I don't think it makes any sense for either side to talk extension right now. The Browns budgeted for a franchise QB and they have his rights for 3 more years - 2 at a reasonable rate. Right or wrong, of course Baker is going to bet on himself. If he earns a little extra leverage at the negotiating table because he put together a full season like the home stretch of 2021 and the first 5 quarters of 2022 then I think that's a justifiable price to pay. He got us to the brink of the AFCCG with subpar options at WR and TE, so I'm not concerned about that guy working with cheaper exterior weaponry. Was that guy the mirage though? If the top of the org is in alignment with where this season went wrong then I think that's what we need to find out in '22.

 
Assuming Baker is as hurt as it appears, why is he then trying to run a guy over last night and leading with his bad shoulder? That is the mark of someone who simply makes bad decisions, and being a bad decision maker has been one of the main criticism I have seen made about him over the years.  It is hard to trust a guy who makes bad decisions to be your franchise QB.  I get that Browns had started like 39 QBs in 10 years (roughly) before drafting Baker, so it is hard to jump ship on a guy who has showed glimpses of greatness (usually when everything around him is perfect), but the Browns will be dead in the water if they pay that guy big money in the next year or two.  It is hard for teams who pay actual great QBs big money to keep talent good enough to make deep playoff runs, but giving the farm to a guy who has shown to be no better than an average NFL starter (at his very best) is a recipe for disaster, IMO. 
So who can the Browns get to come to Cleveland and take them over the hump?   Rodgers. Watson and Wilson are pipe dreams.  After watching the Browns go through many years of football ineptness why would any FA QB come to Cleveland?  Money or no other options.?  The Cleveland Browns have had 29 QB's (yes that is right is right 29) since 1999 the year they moved back.  I hope that Cleveland and Baker make a clean break from one another it would be best for both parties.  But, it looks like Baker will be playing in Cleveland next year due to his salary of around 19 million being attractive.  

 
IMO, one of the worst positions to be in for an NFL team is to have an above average QB. You’ll never be a consistent super bowl threat with them, but it can be hard to move on from them too.

I call it being Andy Dalton’d. That’s the danger zone for the Browns.

 
IMO, one of the worst positions to be in for an NFL team is to have an above average QB. You’ll never be a consistent super bowl threat with them, but it can be hard to move on from them too.

I call it being Andy Dalton’d. That’s the danger zone for the Browns.
Help me understand how this outcome potentially comes to fruition. If 2022 is anything like 2021 then he isn't going to be the Browns quarterback in 2023 - it's essentially the Trubisky career arc only Baker lost a year due to Huebola. If 2022 is more like what transpired as 2020 progressed then I'm not seeing the connection between him and Andy Dalton. That team got to where it did primarily because of Baker. The defense sucked and when the offense wasn't battling covid or mother nature was consistently explosive. Was that iteration of him the exception to the rule? That's what 2022 should determine.

 
Help me understand how this outcome potentially comes to fruition. If 2022 is anything like 2021 then he isn't going to be the Browns quarterback in 2023 - it's essentially the Trubisky career arc only Baker lost a year due to Huebola. If 2022 is more like what transpired as 2020 progressed then I'm not seeing the connection between him and Andy Dalton. That team got to where it did primarily because of Baker. The defense sucked and when the offense wasn't battling covid or mother nature was consistently explosive. Was that iteration of him the exception to the rule? That's what 2022 should determine.
From the outside looking in, 2020 Mayfield is exactly who I wouldn’t want to give a bunch of money to long term. He was good in chunks, but ultimately I just didn’t think he showed he is an elite QB. He did enough to give hope, but never actually showed he is elite. I thought his rookie season showed way more promise than either of the last 2 years.

 
From the outside looking in, 2020 Mayfield is exactly who I wouldn’t want to give a bunch of money to long term. He was good in chunks, but ultimately I just didn’t think he showed he is an elite QB. He did enough to give hope, but never actually showed he is elite. I thought his rookie season showed way more promise than either of the last 2 years.
This.  I never saw anything to make me think he will be top tier or even close

 
From the outside looking in, 2020 Mayfield is exactly who I wouldn’t want to give a bunch of money to long term. He was good in chunks, but ultimately I just didn’t think he showed he is an elite QB. He did enough to give hope, but never actually showed he is elite. I thought his rookie season showed way more promise than either of the last 2 years.
Help me understand why anything short of 'elite' is not worth retaining. If you don't think there is a worthwhile zone between purgatory (Andy Dalton) and elite (Aaron Rodgers) then we can agree to disagree. Of course I'd rather have the elite option, but there's good reason the supply of them is so limited on the market place.

 
From the outside looking in, 2020 Mayfield is exactly who I wouldn’t want to give a bunch of money to long term. He was good in chunks, but ultimately I just didn’t think he showed he is an elite QB. He did enough to give hope, but never actually showed he is elite. I thought his rookie season showed way more promise than either of the last 2 years.
The question should be simple for the Browns .org.   Can Mayfield lead them to a SB?  If the answer is anything but yes, it’s time to move on.  If Mayfield has a great team around him, including the D, I think he might be able to get to the SB.   That is not a yes answer.  

 
The question should be simple for the Browns .org.   Can Mayfield lead them to a SB?  If the answer is anything but yes, it’s time to move on.  If Mayfield has a great team around him, including the D, I think he might be able to get to the SB.   That is not a yes answer.  
So you're advocating moving on to another QB you can't say "yes" to just because you can't say "yes" to Baker?  

 
More like an "I dont know yet" QB
Yeah, that the tricky part.

You can't make a decision on a quarterback already knowing the outcome, lol.

I think people are being emotional and aren't even to the stage of overthinking this one.

Once they get past the emotional stage, they will begin to overthink this when the choice is obvious.

We have an ALL-PRO RT.  We have a high first round OLT and an ALL-PRO LG who can slide over to LT if needed.  We have a Pro Bowl RG.  We have a solid vet C and a nice-looking backup C who filled in very well this year.  And we have a couple of alriiiiight journeymen backups.  Our O-Line will be vastly improved next year.

Two years ago, Baker struggled due to an unqualified HC/OC and piss-poor OT play.  

This year he struggled due to his injury, piss-poor WR play, and piss-poor OT play.  

His shoulder will heal, his OTs will heal/improve, and I have full faith in our FO to address the WR position.

I love the improvement of the defense and the rushing attack is even better than I thought.

Expectations for this year got pushed to next year. 

We're fine.  We're better than fine and closer than people realize.

 
Probably wont happen with the Bengals resting people, but I prefer to lose this week and be in the 11-13 range in the draft.

Flame away die hards

 
the WRs didn’t change this year.  they added Schwartz and lost OBJ.  
 

why do they all of a sudden suck this year?

 
the WRs didn’t change this year.  they added Schwartz and lost OBJ.  
 

why do they all of a sudden suck this year?
Did you see them play?  

Did you see any of them look like Ja'Mar Chase or Tee Higgins?

This year we came in with camp buzz about how far ahead of schedule OBJ was only to learn he was weeks from coming back and then he flaked out.

With OBJ's injury and no-one to fill his deep threat role we had to push Schwartz into the lineup. 

Schwartz didn't know his routes and shied away from contact directly leading to Baker's injury.  Baker did something he's never done with Schwartz that he has never done with any other WR, he got in his face.  Not once, or twice, but three times Baker jumped Schwartz after he ran the wrong route.  The kid was clueless and barely saw the field.  

The other WR the media pundits were falling over with training camp reports was DPJ.  We thought he would tear it up from the first game but he fizzled under those expectations.  We saw the occasional flash but a big disappointment considering all of the training camp buzz about how he was ready to take the next step.

Then the enigmatic Hollywood Higgins who seems to get into every coach's doghouse where he disappears, gets cut, crawls back.  

Last, Landry.  Gets injured the first game and is never healthy.  He's overpriced and hasn't played a full season ever.

Why do they suck?  

Why don't they suck?

Do you think we're going to stand pat with these guys?  Who is the threat that other teams need to be concerned about?

This is not the same group that we thought coming into the season.  Not even close.  

 
Our pass catchers were a problem in 2020. They were just a problem that iteration of Baker overcame. The quality of those pass catchers deteriorated in 2021 and this iteration of Baker clearly did not overcome them.

 
In his four seasons in the NFL Baker Mayfield has never finished top 10 in QB rating,  passing yards, completion percentage or TDs but has finished in the top 10 for interceptions 3 times.  

Did the WRs suck on their own or did Mayfield sucking have anything to do with it?  I don't know but I'm guessing it was a little of both.  They do need to improve at WR though that is for sure and they'll need more than one because at $16 million Landry will be a cap casualty, right?

In any case I don't think that either side is going to agree to an extension before the 2022 season.   If it works out for Baker he is going to get a $300-$400 million contract with at least half of that guaranteed, from the Browns or another team.

If it doesn't work out the Browns will be looking for a new QB in 2023.

 
In his four seasons in the NFL Baker Mayfield has never finished top 10 in QB rating
Please.  Doth protest too much Mayfield.  Its ALMOST LIKE PITTSBURGH IS HOPING THE BROWNS CUT HIM SO THEY CAN PICK HIM UP.  LOL.  

Yep, he's this big of a failure.

He finished  top-ten in QBR last year, he broke the NFL rookie TD record, he got the first win for this franchise as a rookie in nearly two years, he QB'd the team to the first winning season in years, he QB'd this team to the  playoffs for the first time in over a decade, he QB'd the team to the first playoff win since last century, and he's undefeated against Big Ben in the post season.

 
Please.  Doth protest too much Mayfield.  Its ALMOST LIKE PITTSBURGH IS HOPING THE BROWNS CUT HIM SO THEY CAN PICK HIM UP.  LOL.  

Yep, he's this big of a failure.

He finished  top-ten in QBR last year, he broke the NFL rookie TD record, he got the first win for this franchise as a rookie in nearly two years, he QB'd the team to the first winning season in years, he QB'd this team to the  playoffs for the first time in over a decade, he QB'd the team to the first playoff win since last century, and he's undefeated against Big Ben in the post season.


Wow you sure are sensitive.

I never said he was a failure, just stated the numbers.  Mayfield's QBR in 2020 was 95.9, I count at least 14 quarterbacks with a higher rating, unless we're talking about 2 different things.

All I am saying is that 2022 is going to be a huge season for Baker.  If he does well he is going to get paid huge money, by the Browns or someone else.   If not, he is likely done with the Browns.

Do you disagree with that assessment?

 
Wow you sure are sensitive.

I never said he was a failure, just stated the numbers.  Mayfield's QBR in 2020 was 95.9, I count at least 14 quarterbacks with a higher rating, unless we're talking about 2 different things.

All I am saying is that 2022 is going to be a huge season for Baker.  If he does well he is going to get paid huge money, by the Browns or someone else.   If not, he is likely done with the Browns.

Do you disagree with that assessment?
Dude, he hasn't even had surgery.  I'm not in any hurry to get in some sort of hot takes.  I saw the season was over as soon as I understood the significance of his injury and spelled out what I expect going forward.

First step is surgery and that is yet to happen.

 
Dude, he hasn't even had surgery.  I'm not in any hurry to get in some sort of hot takes.  I saw the season was over as soon as I understood the significance of his injury and spelled out what I expect going forward.

First step is surgery and that is yet to happen.
Fair enough.

 
In his four seasons in the NFL Baker Mayfield has never finished top 10 in QB rating,  passing yards, completion percentage or TDs but has finished in the top 10 for interceptions 3 times.  

Did the WRs suck on their own or did Mayfield sucking have anything to do with it?  I don't know but I'm guessing it was a little of both.  They do need to improve at WR though that is for sure and they'll need more than one because at $16 million Landry will be a cap casualty, right?

In any case I don't think that either side is going to agree to an extension before the 2022 season.   If it works out for Baker he is going to get a $300-$400 million contract with at least half of that guaranteed, from the Browns or another team.

If it doesn't work out the Browns will be looking for a new QB in 2023.
Mayfield absolutely played a role in them sucking in 2021. Mayfield absolutely played a role in elevating their play in 2020.

And, yes, Landry is out. I suppose it's possible he comes back at a reduced rate when he doesn't command as much in a flooded WR market, but I think a change of scenery is his priority. Hope I'm wrong though.

 
Our pass catchers were a problem in 2020. They were just a problem that iteration of Baker overcame. The quality of those pass catchers deteriorated in 2021 and this iteration of Baker clearly did not overcome them.
you are correct, i'm simply suggesting one of these factors was bigger than the other.

and no, i don't expect them to stand pat.  they should look at improving every position every year.

 
is it possible Mayfield bounces back next year?  absolutely!

will i be super happy i get to keep wearing my no. 6 jersey for a few more years?  hellz yes!

am i thinking it's more likely than not to happen?  no.  not after the way he regressed this year.

the more i think about it, the more i think it was an organizational failure to not shut him down at some point this season.

 
you are correct, i'm simply suggesting one of these factors was bigger than the other.

and no, i don't expect them to stand pat.  they should look at improving every position every year.


is it possible Mayfield bounces back next year?  absolutely!

will i be super happy i get to keep wearing my no. 6 jersey for a few more years?  hellz yes!

am i thinking it's more likely than not to happen?  no.  not after the way he regressed this year.

the more i think about it, the more i think it was an organizational failure to not shut him down at some point this season.
You mention that one factor was bigger than the other wrt the performance of our pass catchers. I don't necessarily disagree with that sentiment. You also mentioned that it was an organizational failure not to shut him down. And I don't necessarily disagree with that sentiment either. Given how the season played out I think those 2 elements feed into each other though. 

I don't recall if I wrote it here or in a group text, but in October sometime around the first Pittsburgh game (paraphrasing) I mentioned that I am glad I wasn't responsible for decision making about him going forward. It sure seemed like the season was over, but a team was built with contending aspirations and the headstrong QB resisted sitting. It was a lose-lose situation. Let him heal til after the bye, noodle armed Keenum flails around and we probably only beat the Lions, lose the locker room, and agendas get pushed for not letting Baker play. The alternative was to keep playing him and risk exactly what transpired. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Because of what happened in Cincinnati I thought there was a path out after the second Baltimore game. Yeah, we almost blew it, but there were glimpses of old Baker (healthiest he had been since LA) before he got banged up again in the second half. It looked like something that could be built upon down the home stretch. Then covid hit, Baker imploded after not practicing for 2 weeks in Green Bay, and the discord between him and Stefanski bubbled over thereafter. Can all that be fixed so 2022 is successful? :shrug: I seem more open minded to it than others, but we'll see what comes out in the coming days/weeks. If alignment isn't feasible from all parties then divorce is necessary.

 
You mention that one factor was bigger than the other wrt the performance of our pass catchers. I don't necessarily disagree with that sentiment. You also mentioned that it was an organizational failure not to shut him down. And I don't necessarily disagree with that sentiment either. Given how the season played out I think those 2 elements feed into each other though. 

I don't recall if I wrote it here or in a group text, but in October sometime around the first Pittsburgh game (paraphrasing) I mentioned that I am glad I wasn't responsible for decision making about him going forward. It sure seemed like the season was over, but a team was built with contending aspirations and the headstrong QB resisted sitting. It was a lose-lose situation. Let him heal til after the bye, noodle armed Keenum flails around and we probably only beat the Lions, lose the locker room, and agendas get pushed for not letting Baker play. The alternative was to keep playing him and risk exactly what transpired. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Because of what happened in Cincinnati I thought there was a path out after the second Baltimore game. Yeah, we almost blew it, but there were glimpses of old Baker (healthiest he had been since LA) before he got banged up again in the second half. It looked like something that could be built upon down the home stretch. Then covid hit, Baker imploded after not practicing for 2 weeks in Green Bay, and the discord between him and Stefanski bubbled over thereafter. Can all that be fixed so 2022 is successful? :shrug: I seem more open minded to it than others, but we'll see what comes out in the coming days/weeks. If alignment isn't feasible from all parties then divorce is necessary.
i still maintain, as i believe you have, that the most likely scenario is that Mayfield is the starter next year and we all have to hope for the best.

 
also Mac, you are correct, it was likely a lose-lose scenario, but sometimes the tough decisions have to be made.

hindsight is 20/20.  

 
also Mac, you are correct, it was likely a lose-lose scenario, but sometimes the tough decisions have to be made.

hindsight is 20/20.  
I think I said something similar at that time, but my phrasing was more that it isn't a tough decision; it's a which future bad decision is optimal. Hindsight would have been a weapon no matter the chosen path.

 
i still maintain, as i believe you have, that the most likely scenario is that Mayfield is the starter next year and we all have to hope for the best.
Agreed. I don't think acquiring any of Wilson, Rodgers, or Watson is realistic. I don't agree with anyone that says we should consider options beyond them unless realignment is quite simply not feasible with the current major players. None of the options are better gambles than him. Might Kirk Cousins be a better QB than Baker? I don't think he is, but give how volatile Baker has been I think it's fair to include that in the range of potential outcomes. At the same time this team isn't winning a title with Cousins under center. The subject of purgatory QB's came up earlier. I take exception to Baker being included in that group. He's certainly a volatile QB, but purgatory? Nope. Kirk's in the Matt Cassel category of purgatory though. We may be forced into one of those options in 2023, but I have zero interest in going down that path in 2022.

 
i still maintain, as i believe you have, that the most likely scenario is that Mayfield is the starter next year and we all have to hope for the best.
I think that wouldn't be a bad thing. I truly believe Mayfield should have probably been on IR for much of this season, and was playing through injuries with very little in the way of good players to throw to. 

While obviously guys like Rodgers, Wilson, Watson, or even Cousins would be preferrable, I don't think those are realistic. I'd certainly prefer Mayfield to the guys like Garoppolo, Bridgewater, or Winston who should be available. 

 
I think that wouldn't be a bad thing. I truly believe Mayfield should have probably been on IR for much of this season, and was playing through injuries with very little in the way of good players to throw to. 

While obviously guys like Rodgers, Wilson, Watson, or even Cousins would be preferrable, I don't think those are realistic. I'd certainly prefer Mayfield to the guys like Garoppolo, Bridgewater, or Winston who should be available. 
the one thing that i thought was interesting, someone pointed out yesterday:  "Do you really think the Rams thought their starter would be Stafford at this time last year?"

certainly anything is possible, but i don't see this group moving the assets that would be required to swing a deal to swap out another QB for Mayfield next season.

there's even been talk of trying to swap for Carr.  that might be interesting, but at what price?

 
the one thing that i thought was interesting, someone pointed out yesterday:  "Do you really think the Rams thought their starter would be Stafford at this time last year?"

certainly anything is possible, but i don't see this group moving the assets that would be required to swing a deal to swap out another QB for Mayfield next season.

there's even been talk of trying to swap for Carr.  that might be interesting, but at what price?


The Browns are on the hook for $19 million.  Barring injury I would be very surprised to see another QB starting for the Browns in 2022.

 

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