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Cleveland Browns (11 Viewers)
- Thread starter wadegarrett
- Start date
-OZ-
Footballguy
was just going to post this
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
The Steelers apparently agree.
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Steelers Depot @Steelersdepot
Robert Spillane: Run Defense Fundamentals Come Down To ‘Being Able To Whoop A Man’s ###’ https://steelersdepot.com/2021/12/robert-spillane-run-defense-fundamentals-come-down-to-being-able-to-whoop-a-mans-###/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter… #Steelers
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Yep, expect a good old fashioned bloodbath Monday Night.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Playoffs, lol
mr fancypants
Footballguy
amnesiac
beer is good
you’re no fun.
also, that article is two weeks old.
my takes are hot and fresh.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
BTSC Steelers@btsteelcurtain
Rumors of Ben Roethlisberger inviting family and teammates to Week 17 signals the end is near. #Steelers
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Dez
Footballguy
I didn't realize that the Browns have as good of a chance to make the playoffs as they have if they can win out. I knew if the Browns won against either LV or GB they pretty much controlled their own destiny but losing both I thought they were done but was watching a Browns TV show and if the 3 favorites win this week then the Browns will play Cincinnati next week for the division title.
Besides the Browns winning their last 2 games they need KC to beat Cincinnati and either the LA Rams or Pittsburgh to beat Baltimore.
So if both the Chiefs and Rams win on Sunday Cleveland will go into Monday night knowing they win out they are in the playoffs.
Way better odds than I thought it was. KC and Rams are favored to win they need to not blow those games.
Besides the Browns winning their last 2 games they need KC to beat Cincinnati and either the LA Rams or Pittsburgh to beat Baltimore.
So if both the Chiefs and Rams win on Sunday Cleveland will go into Monday night knowing they win out they are in the playoffs.
Way better odds than I thought it was. KC and Rams are favored to win they need to not blow those games.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
amnesiac
beer is good
I agree. The last two weeks are almost like an additional bye week. should see a lot of fresh legs this week and next.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
We heard Baker had a dislocated and broken shoulder late October but he suffered the injury early in the second game of the season. That happened after we lost our starting LT and the backup LT in the first game so the offensive line never played an entire game together all season. Add in the flakiness of OBJ and injuries to Landry and our passing attack was out of synch all year. Basically, the season was over before it began.
I'm not feeling confident that we'll win tomorrow night and Nati is on a roll if they play their starter in the finale it wouldn't take much to get a big lead.
Right now we are selecting 14th in next year's draft. If we lose tomorrow we leap up to 11th and could wind up with that pick. If we win out we could drop to pick 19.
Its going to be a long offseason and we have to sweat out Baker's surgery to make sure everything goes well. I really don't think we will or should go for another QB. We 'could' luck out and land a blue-chip WR in next year's draft. This year is officially over even with two games yet to play.
The Man With No Name
Footballguy
No Bracie
amnesiac
beer is good
i was pretty high on Mayfield. first jersey i ever bought.
but if they’re in position to draft a QB, i say go for it.
worst case scenario, the rookie sits the bench all year because Mayfield is balling out.
the Browns can play the “we didn’t know if Mayfield was going to ever be the same after his injury” card.
but if they’re in position to draft a QB, i say go for it.
worst case scenario, the rookie sits the bench all year because Mayfield is balling out.
the Browns can play the “we didn’t know if Mayfield was going to ever be the same after his injury” card.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
They could also play the "he isn't good" card.
I am fine drafting a QB high and using whatever Baker woulda been making the next 4-5 years on other players
amnesiac
beer is good
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Precisely what I'm thinking.
We aren't wasting a high pick on some second rate QB who will fail and waste a pick. Baker will get surgery, he will heal. We will get a FA WR and draft a WR prospect. The O-Line will be healthy and we will 'probably' get at least one more FA/draft prospect to add to the youngsters we have been developing.
We signed both OGs and stud RBs. We'll keep Baker.
The defense came along.
We are much closer than people can imagine, its hysterical to see people thinking we're moving on from Baker, lol. No, we're not.
amnesiac
beer is good
you are probably right.
i'm just saying don't completely dismiss the possibility.
Mayfield was drafted by Dorsey.
beer 30
Footballguy
Especially at his price right now on an analytics driven team. They have the ability to add some more pieces and still not scratch a huge check for a QB.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Baker should be getting surgery today, not playing
ghostguy123
Footballguy
The line moved 6.5 points an now Steelers -3.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
4 batted balls already plus a terrible read leading an INT.
He isnt good enough to take us anywhere. He isnt even good.
He isnt good enough to take us anywhere. He isnt even good.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Mayfield is not good. And if anyone wants to use the injury excuse, why is he scrambling on that 3rd and 10 and lowering his shoulder to make contact with a defender? He is either not that hurt or just really stupid. Either way, he is a QB the Browns need to move off of ASAP.
amnesiac
beer is good
like why Stefanski kept starting Mayfield all year despite having a 6 million dollar backup available?
who the #### is going to leak that, Berry??
if we haven’t gotten a leak by now it’s not ####### happening.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Defending this group's decision making in 2021 isn't a hill I'm willing to die on, but... Keenum sucks. I expect drama, but whether noteworthy or not we'll see.
SHIZNITTTT
Footballguy
Baker trying to force a trade after tonight?
Baker: “Now it’s time for me to start looking at what’s best for me and my health. … I’m pretty damn beat up right now.” Baker said he’ll discuss with his agent/family whether he will play next Sunday vs. Cincy #Browns
Baker: “Now it’s time for me to start looking at what’s best for me and my health. … I’m pretty damn beat up right now.” Baker said he’ll discuss with his agent/family whether he will play next Sunday vs. Cincy #Browns
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Godsbrother
Footballguy
No offense but what team in the NFL is going to trade for Mayfield?
He's no better than average when healthy and he'll be coming off shoulder surgery.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
It will obviously never happen, but Mayfield getting traded to the Steelers after Ben retires and then becoming a Pro Bowler would be about the most Cleveland thing that could happen.
amnesiac
beer is good
Berry said on the bye week "Mayfield is healthy and we expect him to perform at a high level."
you think Stefanski is going to come out and say, "yeah, the GM made me start Mayfield."?
what leaks are you looking for?
this entire season was basically a sinking ship with the refusal to sit Mayfield. everything else was secondary.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Before Baker said he was injured I knew that their was something wrong and speculated he was injured.
Why?
It was obvious. Some who still have no clue how to read the room actually think an NFL QB playing with a broken shoulder, who is wearing a brace, who had to sit a game, came back, toughed out the season and gradually wore down and looked worn out has shown his true value.
Not sure if people watch NFL games or just fart out hot takes while smoking crack but for those who do watch the NFL and saw last night's game they saw a QB under insane pressure with an open barn door at RT who gave up a minimum of 5 sacks before factoring in the poor play of the LT.
The Browns offensive line was considered one of the best if not thee best in the league before the season when they were healthy but guess what? They never played one full game together ALL YEAR.
Oh you mean you CAN factor injuries into making a proper evaluation and ITS NOT AN EXCUES?
Yeah. Injuries are data for evaluation and just like the O-Line is much better than what it showed after injuries the same thing applies to the QB.
We don't need a top-five or even a top-ten QB to win with the O-Line, running game, and defense.
We need a top 12 to 15 QB and that is Baker when healthy.
Now that people forced out OBJ creating a huge hole at WR we need to address WR and add that to a healthy O-Line and healthy QB and we'll see a completely different outcome.
Why?
It was obvious. Some who still have no clue how to read the room actually think an NFL QB playing with a broken shoulder, who is wearing a brace, who had to sit a game, came back, toughed out the season and gradually wore down and looked worn out has shown his true value.
Not sure if people watch NFL games or just fart out hot takes while smoking crack but for those who do watch the NFL and saw last night's game they saw a QB under insane pressure with an open barn door at RT who gave up a minimum of 5 sacks before factoring in the poor play of the LT.
The Browns offensive line was considered one of the best if not thee best in the league before the season when they were healthy but guess what? They never played one full game together ALL YEAR.
Oh you mean you CAN factor injuries into making a proper evaluation and ITS NOT AN EXCUES?
Yeah. Injuries are data for evaluation and just like the O-Line is much better than what it showed after injuries the same thing applies to the QB.
We don't need a top-five or even a top-ten QB to win with the O-Line, running game, and defense.
We need a top 12 to 15 QB and that is Baker when healthy.
Now that people forced out OBJ creating a huge hole at WR we need to address WR and add that to a healthy O-Line and healthy QB and we'll see a completely different outcome.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Last night did nothing to change my thinking. It doesn’t matter what I think though. It’s up the the Browns organization to make the tough decisions. Good QBs are difficult to find though. Do the Browns settle for decent or try to find a QB that can win games for them?
Godsbrother
Footballguy
I am very much in favor of the Browns signing Mayfield to a long term, big money contract.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Even if they do ever sign him longer, it certainly wont be this offseason.
If they do, fire everyone
If they do, fire everyone
MAC_32
Footballguy
This season was a failure. Generally speaking when that happens agenda's get rolled out once the season is over - sometimes prior. I think it's fairly obvious where this season went wrong, but I think there is more to 'the why' than what's currently out there. What makes up that why? I dunno, that's why I'm curious what leaks out this week. If it does or doesn't then that'll help fill in the gaps in the picture.
As is, I didn't read much into Baker's performance before December. His week 2 injury was going to impact his play from that moment forward. His laundry list of midseason injuries compounded matters. His medical advice after the week 6 injury was to sit out until after the bye, but he and the team chose not to. He wasn't ever going to be healthy this season, but if they considered him 'healthy enough' at that point then I'm not going to argue with a doctor. I was dismissive of the criticisms to that point, but despite the circumstances (covid) I think they're warranted over his last 3 games. I hesitate to play amateur shrink from my couch, but what I saw sure looked like a guy pressing. He seemed to fall back into some old bad habits with his relatively unusual mechanics, which were probably made worse dealing with a shoulder harness. Pre-determining what he was going to do with the ball became a thing under Freddie, disappeared in year 1 with Kevin, but returned as year 2 with Kevin progressed. Why? Regardless, I'm disappointed this is what I saw instead of him adapting to his circumstances.
But this is also where I raise my eyebrow as it relates to Stefanski. Was the environment he created the culprit for this downward spiral? Did Baker feel like he had to do it all himself within a system that was no longer putting him in a position to be successful? This was an incredibly difficult season to navigate given all of the health issues this team dealt with, but I'm disappointed in Stefanski's lack of adjustments. Dealing with a gimpy Willis and Landry off-and-on all season wasn't in the cards. Neither was Conklin rarely being available. Same with Kareem. And Odell was supposed to be the one to open up the offense to everyone else, but he forced his way out and DPJ wasn't ready for anything more than a complimentary role. #### happens in the NFL though. Good coaches adapt and he did not do that this year. He shrunk his play book as he lost bodies, but sustained the same philosophy despite results screaming to try something else.
I get that the masses are going to play the finger pointing game, but that isn't going to change my mind that they're probably wrong. Most problems are bigger than one person, so until there is information to say so I'm operating under the assumption that is not the case. The Browns issues stem beyond Baker and Stefanski, but those 2 are the lynchpins. Can this be fixed? I think so, but it depends on them all (QB, coaching, management, down the line) being aligned with where this season went wrong and the role they played in leading us to this place. And ultimately, that's why I'm curious about leaks. That's how I'll think this can be re-aligned to move forward with the existing core or if significant changes are necessary.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Baker needs everything going well around him to play well. That rarely happens in the NFL. We are in the QB doldrums IMO
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amnesiac
beer is good
i'm sure they could've done more to help out Hudson, but what i saw was a QB that had no idea where to go with the ball and was constantly second guessing himself.
most of the routes looked like three step routes to me. he hung on to the ball way too long.
he also seems to have zero feel for where the rush is.
Mayfield did himself no favors last night.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
It is not a completely 100% equal comparison to the Browns pass block win rate is better. It is not equal because Joe Burrow does not have a broken/dislocated shoulder that he's been playing with since the second game of the year and he's did not have a heel issue that has impacted his scrambling ability and he did not lose his top WR and we know that his #2 WR has not been gimpy all year.
Its not apples to apples because we see that Joe has Tee Higgins and Offensive Rookie Of The Year candidate Ja'Mar Chase AND Tyler Boyd as the QB of a passing attack that is healthy and humming. In that high powered passing attack Joe has thrown for over 4,600 yards and 34 TDs compared to injured Baker Mayfield's 3,000 yards and 17 TDs.
The Browns entire offense has been impacted by Baker's injury up to and including to setting up passes, i.e. pass protection, based on 'trying' to protect Baker by using misdirection/short passes/roll outs/etc. just to protect Baker. We use more 12 and 13 personnel than any other team, we run more than any other team. Its how the offense is built. We aren't running 3 and 4 wideouts in a heavy passing attack where pass rushers can tee-off and have the advantage which would directly impact pass rush win rate.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
I would love to see Baker get an extension because it will be after next season and if he gets the extension he'll earn it.
The one team in the division without a QB resides in Pittsburgh.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Maybe I am mistaken but I thought Mayfield's contract ran through 2022 so if the want to extend him it has to happen before next season ends right? Otherwise he'll be an UFA.
If he has a breakout season in 2022 it will be Mayfield holding all of the cards. You may get your man but you're going to have to shell out a $300+ million contract with at least half of that guaranteed. That's a lot of cash but maybe he will be worth it, it is a risk though. There will also be other teams bidding for his services too.
On the other hand if Mayfield disappoints the Browns will be in the same situation in 2023 as the Steelers will be in 2022.
As I said it will be interesting to see what happens. Not just the Browns and Steelers but also the Ravens who are facing a similar situation.
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