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***OFFICIAL 'The Walking Dead' TV Series Thread*** (7 Viewers)

As soon as Carol is put in the holding cell she planned the whole escape. First, as they drug the dead zombie out, she uses her right foot to snag the rosary beads off the body as it's drug by

Then she immediately transfers those beads into her leg pocket.

Then she fakes hyperventilating so they ungag her and she points at the pocket. Fat smoker reaches in and gives the beads to Carol. Carol acts like it's a cherished relative as she kisses the beads.

Her first words are don't hurt Maggie and the baby.  

She later goes into a crying game and acts weak, she also thanks her captors for helping stop the guy that was kicking her.

It isn't until after Red tells Carol she's weak and tells her story about coffee, the real Carol says to her "you, you're the one. You're the one who's afraid to die, and you will die" she says it stone cold staring right into Reds face with Rottweiler-like eye contact.  Red is stunned and says "are you going to kill me?"

Carol's reply, "I hope not"

Carol is a major psychopath, deadly and remorseless. Red had no chance.

 
Episode was weak.

Negan's group ambushed Darryl and co. and is shaking down any group that puts up walls.

So to defend themselves Rick's group goes on the offensive.

So now I'm supposed to ponder whether Rick's group is becoming the "bad guys" as well?  Give me a break.

Is it too much for Carol and or Maggie to even bring up these points while trying to save their own lives?

 
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Daywalker said:
Episode was weak.

Negan's group ambushed Darryl and co. and is shaking down any group that puts up walls.

So to defend themselves Rick's group goes on the offensive.

So now I'm supposed to ponder whether Rick's group is becoming the "bad guys" as well?  Give me a break.

Is it too much for Carol and or Maggie to even bring up these points while trying to save their own lives?
Click to expand...
Negans group have been the aggressors...they stopped daryl on the road and tried to rob and kill them

Negans group has attacked Alexandria 

Negans group was terrorizing Jesus`s group

Rick is the bully buster...he`s the guy who takes out the trash 

 
tommyboy said:
As soon as Carol is put in the holding cell she planned the whole escape. First, as they drug the dead zombie out, she uses her right foot to snag the rosary beads off the body as it's drug by

Then she immediately transfers those beads into her leg pocket.

Then she fakes hyperventilating so they ungag her and she points at the pocket. Fat smoker reaches in and gives the beads to Carol. Carol acts like it's a cherished relative as she kisses the beads.

Her first words are don't hurt Maggie and the baby.  

She later goes into a crying game and acts weak, she also thanks her captors for helping stop the guy that was kicking her.

It isn't until after Red tells Carol she's weak and tells her story about coffee, the real Carol says to her "you, you're the one. You're the one who's afraid to die, and you will die" she says it stone cold staring right into Reds face with Rottweiler-like eye contact.  Red is stunned and says "are you going to kill me?"

Carol's reply, "I hope not"

Carol is a major psychopath, deadly and remorseless. Red had no chance.
Click to expand...
What you just described is exactly the episode I thought I was watching for the first 40 minutes or so.  But then Carol really was all misty about killing Red and her buddies.  The correct, consistent ending to a "Carol The Calculating Sociopath" episode would have been her dropping the act as soon as she was free and remorselessly putting two in Red's cap.  Instead, we got 15 minutes of wishy-washiness.  That's why this episode sucked.  If you want to show Carol being a calculating, cold-blooded killer, do that.  If you want to show her having a moral reckoning, set it up properly and do that.  Don't do half of one and half of the other.  That's ####ty writing and terrible character development.      

 
tommyboy said:
In Abe's version of the story he stirs the coffee with his #### then Sasha orders a 16oz Americano with room for cream
Click to expand...
while exclaiming "I like my #####es like I like my coffee...cold, black and bitter"

 
IvanKaramazov said:
tommyboy said:
As soon as Carol is put in the holding cell she planned the whole escape. First, as they drug the dead zombie out, she uses her right foot to snag the rosary beads off the body as it's drug by

Then she immediately transfers those beads into her leg pocket.

Then she fakes hyperventilating so they ungag her and she points at the pocket. Fat smoker reaches in and gives the beads to Carol. Carol acts like it's a cherished relative as she kisses the beads.

Her first words are don't hurt Maggie and the baby.  

She later goes into a crying game and acts weak, she also thanks her captors for helping stop the guy that was kicking her.

It isn't until after Red tells Carol she's weak and tells her story about coffee, the real Carol says to her "you, you're the one. You're the one who's afraid to die, and you will die" she says it stone cold staring right into Reds face with Rottweiler-like eye contact.  Red is stunned and says "are you going to kill me?"

Carol's reply, "I hope not"

Carol is a major psychopath, deadly and remorseless. Red had no chance.
Click to expand...
What you just described is exactly the episode I thought I was watching for the first 40 minutes or so.  But then Carol really was all misty about killing Red and her buddies.  The correct, consistent ending to a "Carol The Calculating Sociopath" episode would have been her dropping the act as soon as she was free and remorselessly putting two in Red's cap.  Instead, we got 15 minutes of wishy-washiness.  That's why this episode sucked.  If you want to show Carol being a calculating, cold-blooded killer, do that.  If you want to show her having a moral reckoning, set it up properly and do that.  Don't do half of one and half of the other.  That's ####ty writing and terrible character development.   
Click to expand...
I felt that way while watching the episode.. After reflection though..
She never had any issues killing the coughing lady, nor the lady that took a swipe at Maggie with the knife.. It was only with Red that she had the "washy-washy" stance..

And it makes sense on what the writers were doing... After the conversation with Red, Carol saw herself in Red and is the reason for the "I hope not" to the question on who is going to kill her. :shrug:

 
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tonydead said:
Still doesn't make sense.  He's captive.  "Where are your other hideouts and how many people are there?", while slowly peeling his skin off.   And again, what you are saying is Rick taking him for his word.  Why does everyone get a pass on this show when they assume the bad guys are telling the truth?
Click to expand...
torture doesn't work

 
IvanKaramazov said:
What you just described is exactly the episode I thought I was watching for the first 40 minutes or so.  But then Carol really was all misty about killing Red and her buddies.  The correct, consistent ending to a "Carol The Calculating Sociopath" episode would have been her dropping the act as soon as she was free and remorselessly putting two in Red's cap.  Instead, we got 15 minutes of wishy-washiness.  That's why this episode sucked.  If you want to show Carol being a calculating, cold-blooded killer, do that.  If you want to show her having a moral reckoning, set it up properly and do that.  Don't do half of one and half of the other.  That's ####ty writing and terrible character development.      
Click to expand...
She is struggling with the whole moral thing, as you say, but I think she was even more conflicted because she saw Red as a younger Carol.

 
Ned said:
She is struggling with the whole moral thing, as you say, but I think she was even more conflicted because she saw Red as a younger Carol.
Click to expand...
I don't think Carol wants to be a cold-blooded killer but she's thrust into these situations where she knows it's the only move to make. She saw herself in Red and didn't want to kill her. She wanted Red to be more than she had become. But when push came to shove and Carol's only recourse was to kill or be killed, she killed. And it's eating her up inside.

I thought all of this was extremely well done and Melissa McBride was great as always. Like the director guy said on Talking Dead if Carol was just a cold-blooded killer all the time she would become a monster and a far less interesting character. The fact she's done all these things to survive and is now having the time to reflect on the things she's done and is tortured by it makes her much more compelling in my opinion. 

 
packersfan said:
I don't think Carol wants to be a cold-blooded killer but she's thrust into these situations where she knows it's the only move to make. She saw herself in Red and didn't want to kill her. She wanted Red to be more than she had become. But when push came to shove and Carol's only recourse was to kill or be killed, she killed. And it's eating her up inside.

I thought all of this was extremely well done and Melissa McBride was great as always. Like the director guy said on Talking Dead if Carol was just a cold-blooded killer all the time she would become a monster and a far less interesting character. The fact she's done all these things to survive and is now having the time to reflect on the things she's done and is tortured by it makes her much more compelling in my opinion. 
Click to expand...
This is how I look at it as well.  Although I wouldn't mind her being set up as a ruthless, cold-blooded killer.  

Threatening that kid in Alexandria really seemed to point her in that direction.  Didn't think she was going to get her moral compass moving again after that.

 
I get the sense Carol's world view is starting to align itself with Morgan's. And I don't think she's entirely happy about that. 

Unlike Morgan, she won't hesitate to kill to survive but I think she's clearly searching for a different path. I think Morgan senses it too which is part of what he was saying to her in last week's episode.   

 
packersfan said:
I get the sense Carol's world view is starting to align itself with Morgan's. And I don't think she's entirely happy about that. 

Unlike Morgan, she won't hesitate to kill to survive but I think she's clearly searching for a different path. I think Morgan senses it too which is part of what he was saying to her in last week's episode.   
Click to expand...
yeah- the constantly shifting moral compass, and need to assess and reassess what works on it is what makes the show interesting in these later days. at this point, killing zombies is similar to swatting mosquitoes- not much plot psychology left with their presence. 

 
El Floppo said:
yeah- the constantly shifting moral compass, and need to assess and reassess what works on it is what makes the show interesting in these later days. at this point, killing zombies is similar to swatting mosquitoes- not much plot psychology left with their presence. 
Click to expand...
It's been shifting in that direction for awhile. Walkers in large packs are still dangerous but just alone or a couple of them and they're usually dealt with easily. I think the show's fundamental theme has always been what will you do in order to survive but now it's shifting more toward if you kill without remorse are you a monster or just doing what you need to do in order to survive? It's become a psychological case study as much as anything. 

 
agree.

tangent... seems to me the world needs Negans/big-man(person) to unite the disparate survivors into something larger to ensure survival. small groups of individuals scraping along aren't going to further the human race in this version of the world. I still don't buy that governments would collapse so completely leading to this kind of survival mode... but given that, somebody has to forcefully collectivize the remaining survivors into something bigger that works.

 
Daywalker said:
Episode was weak.

Negan's group ambushed Darryl and co. and is shaking down any group that puts up walls.

So to defend themselves Rick's group goes on the offensive.

So now I'm supposed to ponder whether Rick's group is becoming the "bad guys" as well?  Give me a break.

Is it too much for Carol and or Maggie to even bring up these points while trying to save their own lives?
Click to expand...
Exactly.

 
packersfan said:
It's been shifting in that direction for awhile. Walkers in large packs are still dangerous but just alone or a couple of them and they're usually dealt with easily. I think the show's fundamental theme has always been what will you do in order to survive but now it's shifting more toward if you kill without remorse are you a monster or just doing what you need to do in order to survive? It's become a psychological case study as much as anything. 
Click to expand...
Unless you're a TWD redshirt.  Then they can sneak up on you easily - no matter if its in the woods, a town or a china shop.

 
BustedKnuckles said:
Negans group have been the aggressors...they stopped daryl on the road and tried to rob and kill them

Negans group has attacked Alexandria 

Negans group was terrorizing Jesus`s group

Rick is the bully buster...he`s the guy who takes out the trash 
Click to expand...
well im assuming the wolves are part of negans group...but even if they arent rick wouldnt know that 

 
tommyboy said:
As soon as Carol is put in the holding cell she planned the whole escape. First, as they drug the dead zombie out, she uses her right foot to snag the rosary beads off the body as it's drug by

Then she immediately transfers those beads into her leg pocket.

Then she fakes hyperventilating so they ungag her and she points at the pocket. Fat smoker reaches in and gives the beads to Carol. Carol acts like it's a cherished relative as she kisses the beads.

Her first words are don't hurt Maggie and the baby.  

She later goes into a crying game and acts weak, she also thanks her captors for helping stop the guy that was kicking her.

It isn't until after Red tells Carol she's weak and tells her story about coffee, the real Carol says to her "you, you're the one. You're the one who's afraid to die, and you will die" she says it stone cold staring right into Reds face with Rottweiler-like eye contact.  Red is stunned and says "are you going to kill me?"

Carol's reply, "I hope not"

Carol is a major psychopath, deadly and remorseless. Red had no chance.
Click to expand...
Except that deadly remorseless killer then tried to let Red go, and also stood around and watched while Maggie almost got the baby slashed out of her.

That was very sporting of Carol/Maggie btw, to stand around and let the other each have their 1 on 1 battle for a bit without interfering.

To be fair though, I guess they did owe them one after killing machine Red managed to expertly fire off an entire clip at her two oblivious targets 10 feet away in a narrow hallway without even grazing one of them. 

 
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Bossman said:
Did Rick mention that someone left breadcrumbs for them to follow?

How did they find Carol and Maggie?

I missed that part.
Click to expand...
So at the end of the episode, it was Daryl that said to Carol that he followed the trail that she left.

The scene where she was being led away from the observatory with her head covered ... she was looking down, shuffling/ dragging her feet to leave a trail.

 
Bossman said:
So at the end of the episode, it was Daryl that said to Carol that he followed the trail that she left.

The scene where she was being led away from the observatory with her head covered ... she was looking down, shuffling/ dragging her feet to leave a trail.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. And then she did the same thing with their Flintstones car.

 
Something I don't believe I've heard people mentioning in this thread since the latest episode is in regard to Red.

While they were traveling with Carol and Maggie to their hideout, there was a few minutes of Red talking with someone (or more than one person) during which there was some fairly sophisticated talk about switching frequencies on their radios.

This, to me, speaks a lot to organization on a fairly large level.

Snogger, a page ago, skirted around this topic.  I like his idea that there are 4-8 person roaming scout squads continually moving around.

 
Bossman said:
So at the end of the episode, it was Daryl that said to Carol that he followed the trail that she left.

The scene where she was being led away from the observatory with her head covered ... she was looking down, shuffling/ dragging her feet to leave a trail.
Click to expand...
Oh man if the zombie apocolypse does come and my current wife gets inevitably turned, I'm going find me someone just like Carol and wife them right up.

 
Thunderlips said:
Then get a dog, Sissy.  If I'm in Alexandria....I'd be muching on that beet cookie every night...if you know what I mean.
Click to expand...
Speaking of dogs, you'd think there'd be roving packs of feral ones all over the place with the unlimited supply of meat available

 
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tommyboy said:
Speaking of dogs, you'd think there'd be roving packs of feral ones all over the place with the other unlimited supply of meat available
Click to expand...
Let's see.. First season Horse gets chowed on.. Not too many episodes ago another horse was taken down and chowed upon..

You thinking zombies like horses and humans, but dogs they love too much to eat :confused:

 
snogger said:
Let's see.. First season Horse gets chowed on.. Not too many episodes ago another horse was taken down and chowed upon..

You thinking zombies like horses and humans, but dogs they love too much to eat :confused:
Click to expand...
They're choosing to eat the strangers over the dogs. 

 
snogger said:
Let's see.. First season Horse gets chowed on.. Not too many episodes ago another horse was taken down and chowed upon..

You thinking zombies like horses and humans, but dogs they love too much to eat :confused:
Click to expand...


i don't think a zombie would be a match for 10 feral dogs.

 
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