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***OFFICIAL*** Washington Redskins 2012 Off Season Thread (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter dgreen
- Start date
My disdain for the man insists that I say "no". 
I will laugh at the Packers when NFL teams call their bluff and force them to pay Flynn 14 million next year to hold Rodgers towel and hat. I just don't see it in Flynn. One meaningless shootout game in a system he knows with good weapons is not enough to sell me. I'm hoping Cleveland (Holmgren) see another Matt Hasselbeck situation in Flynn and they sign/trade for him, thus taking them out of the QB draft derby. If the Skins are gonna go for Flynn, I would rather they draft Weeden out of Okie St. He's not much older than Flynn and has a lot more experience passing the ball (granted not in the NFL, but how much passing experience has Flynn had?) . Maybe the Skins could team him up with his college WR in Justin Blackmon 
scoobygang
Footballguy
The team relied too much on Trent early in the year. They literally ran one run play many games. A stretch to the left, behind Williams. Late in the season, they'd run that short toss a lot more, as well as a few other inside runs. And the stretch has gone to both sides. While I doubt that Hunt is better than 'Steiger at getting to the second level on the move, he's a bigger guy. Probably a better run blocker against what is right in front of him. That's been a good fit for Royster, in particular, as his feet and vision makes him a very good inside runner. More inside runs also help Montgomery, who's a strong guy. The guy who nobody mentioned who I found a very pleasant surprise was Palumbo. We was the best guy we played at RT this season. Much better than Locklear and better than Brown, IMO (better than Willie Smith too, for that matter, but he wasn't facing the same pass rushers).
Eastwood
Footballguy
Those are fighting words punk
southeastjerome
Footballguy
Certainly could happen. Although I think that his performance on Sunday may have swayed their mind on that a little. They know there are only 2 top flight QB prospects in the draft and knowing that Brees will be franchised, that would leave Flynn as the best option out there. I don't think it is a foregone conclusion either way (Finley vs. Flynn).
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southeastjerome
Footballguy
I don't think Williams' contract makes him very tradeable.
From PFT: Jaguars make it clear that Gabbert is still franchise QB
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/05/jaguars-make-it-clear-gabbert-remains-franchise-quarterback/
Nice...we need less competition for rookie and FA QBs...!
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/05/jaguars-make-it-clear-gabbert-remains-franchise-quarterback/
Nice...we need less competition for rookie and FA QBs...!
SacramentoBob
Footballguy
Pretty bad for them to be giving him votes of confidence this early in his career.
Dexter Manley
Footballguy
no/yes
Dexter Manley
Footballguy
Looks like Shanny has a sensible gameplan wrt Jamal Brown. He'll rehab all offseason at the team facility. If he's not 100% by next summer they'll cut him and save a few million on the cap.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/jammal-browns-future-hinges-on-offseason-rehab/2012/01/04/gIQAL1VWaP_blog.html?wprss=football-insider
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/jammal-browns-future-hinges-on-offseason-rehab/2012/01/04/gIQAL1VWaP_blog.html?wprss=football-insider
dgreen
Footballguy
Regardless, I'd like them to address RT in the draft or FA. If it can make financial sense, Brown would be good depth if he's 100% healthy.
Dexter Manley
Footballguy
I was pleasantly surprised with the play of Willie Smith and Palumbo late in the year. Saying that, however, I don't think either of these guys is close to the player that TWill is, who was actually starting to play his best ball of the season right before he was suspended.
Regarding the improved OL play the last 4 games look at who the Skins played: NE, MIN, NYG, PHI. All of those teams sans Philly rank in the bottom of the league in total defense (31st, 27th, 21st). And Philly's run defense isn't very good (gave up the 12th most yards per carry).
Regarding the improved OL play the last 4 games look at who the Skins played: NE, MIN, NYG, PHI. All of those teams sans Philly rank in the bottom of the league in total defense (31st, 27th, 21st). And Philly's run defense isn't very good (gave up the 12th most yards per carry).
Dexter Manley
Footballguy
I agree completely. Not doing anything to improve the RT situation other than hoping Brown will finally get 100% healthy would be a very reckless gamble.
I think the Redskins general approach to the draft: Draft players at every position. The only positions that I think could be off the table are OLB and P (assuming Rocca re-signs). Obviously some positions are bigger needs than others, but they Redskins need players all over the roster.
On the other hand, Cleveland will provide competition for McCoy:http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/05/holmgren-mccoy-will-face-quarterback-competition/If the Redskins want RGIII, I believe they will need to trade up to the # 2 slot. It's either that, go after a FA like Flynn, or draft a guy a bit later like Jones or Tannyhill. The options are starting to become more clear.
It would be interesting to hear how Morris will fit in. I believe Morris would be well versed in the Tampa 2 defense, being a DC for Tampa. Haslett is running a Pittsburg style 3-4. These defenses look like they are complete opposites in philosophy.
Jones will stay in school for his senior season. Good move by him his draft stock dropped like a stone this year.
crispus attucks
Footballguy
confused at the Flynn love. I hope we avoid him. To acquire a guy based on 2 good games for the best team in the league would be foolish. If he was so good, why was he a 7th round draft pick? And out of the over-analyzed SEC at that.buyers beware!
The love comes from not having to use any draft picks to get him.Obviously if he flops, the team would waste a year or two trying to make it work.The key for the Redskins is to find their QB and to pick the right guy. If they pick the wrong guy, they will lose a lot more time.
This doesn't address the frequencies over time, but it'll give a good idea of where teams ran over the course of the season, and where they did well. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/olThe Skins ran the ball better up the middle than they did anywhere else -- but as a percentage only GB ran the ball up the middle less. They also ran the ball "better" to the right side than they did to the left (both off-tackle and on the edges). Not exactly a ringing endorsement for Williams' run-blocking, but again -- it doesn't break down the frequencies over time, so you're only looking at a snapshot of the bigger picture.
It is also nice to think you could pick up Flynn and say draft Blackmon. So if you have faith in Flynn being a good QB you'd have a top WR prospect coming from the draft. Personally at this point I would like to see them end up with Griffin, although I wouldn't be upset since I like quite a few of the guys that will go in the top 10.
SacramentoBob
Footballguy
Why were Tom Brady, Matt Hasselbeck & Marc Bulger 6th round picks?Why were Kurt Warner & Tony Romo undrafted?Why was Matt Cassel a 7th round pick?
I was definately under the impression that in the beginning of the year, the Redskins ran left a lot and after the injuries, they were much more balanced.
The guy I keep hearing the Redskins could take late first round or early second is this Ryan Tannehill kid from Texas A & M. What is the deal with him? Is he a potential fit for the Redskins? There was a college scouting expert on the radio that said the Skins could probably trade back from the 6th pick to pick up more picks and still get Tannehill. He was also saying the Redskins could get an excellent non-QB player first round then perhaps trade back up into the first round to take him.Would he have the potential to be QB to build around? I know he's not Luck or RGIII, but just looking at what are the realistic possibilities.Here is some background on Tannehill from CBS Sportsline. It looks like he's now considered the # 3 QB prospect behind Luck and RG...http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1273654/ryan-tannehill
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dgreen
Footballguy
A lot of the draft discussion is based on current opinions. Obviously that makes sense, since that's all the information we have right now. But, keep in mind that a lot changes between January and April. A guy who looks like a top 5 pick could drop to 20 and a guy who isn't even considered a first-rounder right now could end up in the top 10. The combine, personal workouts, and interviews have yet to happen. For the most part, all current opinions are based on game film and probably talking to references (coaches).
Good point. It's worth noting that after his Junior year, Jake Locker was considered the lock best QB coming out of college. And you see how that changed in a big way. So, a lot can certainly happen.And you are right...college stats are one thing...but not the only thing. Coaches will be looking for a player's skills, aptitude, etc. exhibited in many venues. This same guy I was listening to on the radio was saying that while everyone was focusing on the top 2, there were actually a lot of guys who seemed to have the potential to blossom. Of course there is risk involved, but there has historically even been some risk involved with a high first round pick.
Right now, the draft order is:
1. Indy
2. St. Louis
3. Minnesota
4. Cleveland
5. Tampa Bay
6. Washington
The top pick will be Luck, but with the Polians out, the Colts are more likely to deal the pick.
The Rams and Vikings have strongly stated that Bradford and Ponder are the QBs that they are building around. Of course, that could be the start of the pre-draft mis-information teams like to send out.
Cleveland has strongly said that McCoy will have competition. Tampa is looking for a new coach, so their position on Freemen is not known.
Trading up to #3 looks like it guarantees Griffin. If Cleveland and Tampa pass on QBs (or one of them trades up with the Colts), Griffin could fall to the Redskins. They could also sign Flynn and take themselves out of drafting a QB high. As dgreen mentioned, a lot can change between now and the draft. But one way or another, the Redskins need to get their QB this year.
1. Indy
2. St. Louis
3. Minnesota
4. Cleveland
5. Tampa Bay
6. Washington
The top pick will be Luck, but with the Polians out, the Colts are more likely to deal the pick.
The Rams and Vikings have strongly stated that Bradford and Ponder are the QBs that they are building around. Of course, that could be the start of the pre-draft mis-information teams like to send out.
Cleveland has strongly said that McCoy will have competition. Tampa is looking for a new coach, so their position on Freemen is not known.
Trading up to #3 looks like it guarantees Griffin. If Cleveland and Tampa pass on QBs (or one of them trades up with the Colts), Griffin could fall to the Redskins. They could also sign Flynn and take themselves out of drafting a QB high. As dgreen mentioned, a lot can change between now and the draft. But one way or another, the Redskins need to get their QB this year.
Dexter Manley
Footballguy
Unless RG3's stock falls due to the combine/personal workouts, I don't see any way he falls past 1.02. He'll interview off the charts, his 40 time will be ridiculous, so all he has to worry about is being accurate in workouts for scouts, imo. Someone is going to trade up with the Rams to get him.
ExaltedOne
Footballguy
That someone should be Shanahan
Good analysis. What worries me about the # 2 pick is that even if the Rams don't want to switch at QB (which I think is likely), they are definitely going to have suitors for that pick, for a team that wants either Luck or RGIII come heck or highwater. If Skins give up something significant to get to # 3, they still may get outflanked. I think it just one of those things where the Skins need to look at available QB options and decide if moving up to # 2 is worth it. If it is, then just go for it. If you think RGIII is going to grow into a guy who is truly a franchise QB -- and I mean like Brady or Brees or someone -- then I just think you have to go for it even if you are giving up future draft picks. But if you are not certain, then go another way.I think the problem with the Redskins giving up picks for players in the past was NOT that it's always better to have more picks. The problem was they were trading those picks for BUSTS. The question is not whether to trade picks, it's how certain are you that RGIII could rise to that level. Remember, the Redskins are still going to have to fill holes with lower round players or FAs no matter what. If you take a QB early, then you are filling other important holes, like OL, late. But if you save your # 1 picks for non-QB positions, then you fill in with a QB late. Either way you are in that same situation. The question is: Will RGIII elevate your team more than not having another pick later on will hurt your team.
Sebowski
Footballguy
I hate this idea. Trading back into the first always costs a future first round pick +. If they are going to trade those picks, they might as well go to the top of the draft and take the best, even it costs an extra pick or two. Either way I'm going to do my best not to get too caught up in this until after we see where Flynn lands. If he lands in Cleveland, I think we're pretty safe staying at 6. If he ends up in Washington, obviously this whole discussion goes out the window.
Anyone else worried that RG3 will weigh in at 180 5-11 at the combine? He just looks small sometimes.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Who are these teams, though? Cleveland, maybe. But who else? Dolphins, I suppose. Seahawks? Anyone else? Most of the other teams who are weak at the position either are starting a young high draft pick or they're stuck after recently committing to their starter (Buffalo, Arizona). I just don't think there's that many teams chasing a QB in the first or even second round this year.
Some others:#7 - Jacksonville (although they have Gabbert)'TobiasFunke said:
#9 - Miami
#11 - Seattle (how happy are they with Jackson?)
Most other teams look set at QB. For Miami or Seattle to leapfrog the Redskins from #9 or #11 will probably cost a fortune, most likely a fortune they are not willing to give up.
I still think if other players look good at the combine, RG3 may fall.
First, just the threat of Miami or Seattle moving up should be enough to give the team pause, if the option is: a.) not going for Flynn and b.) just banking on RGIII dropping. If b.) doesn't come into play, then you are stuck either reaching for a QB at 6 or taking a possible question mark in the second round. Going into the season without an upgrade at QB though is a terrible outcome for the Redskins IMO and may lead to a more severe breakup and restructuring of the team if they flounder with Grossman or someone else over the year. The question is -- do you really want to take that chance?I guess you could add the Broncos to the list if Tebow continues to falter or possibly the Titans or Raiders if they feel their older QBs need to be replaced sooner rather than later, though I imagine Oakland doesn't have much to bargain with and the Titans just took Locker. The Skins are a good trading partner for the Rams, though, as the Skins have higher picks to offer. The other thing is, Cleveland is not honor bound to stay put at 4 just to let the Redskins move up to 3. They could also try to trade picks with the Rams and throw in something extra, and then the Rams only have to move back 2.
There are lots of scenarios that can unfold, and staying at 6 and banking on getting RGIII there is chock full of risks. So, if they stay put, they just need to have an iron clad backup plan in place.
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TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Yeah, Miami and Seattle. We came up with the same ones. I don't think Jacksonville will be in the market for a QB. At least they shouldn't be, they have plenty of holes to fill and haven't given Gabbert much of a shot yet.Assuming it would cost Miami and Seattle too much to trade up, if we want one of the top two the only real issue is getting (and staying) ahead of the Browns in my opinion.
My guess is that they will be much more aggressive at QB this year. I suspect that if the right QB fell to #10 last year, they would have drafted him. Or if the right QB (Dalton) fell to the 2nd round, they would have taken him. The only thing we know for sure is that Gabbert at #10 was not what they wanted.I would be open to signing Flynn and drafting RG3 if he falls to #6. Or taking a more developmental Qb in the 2nd or 3rd round. Signing Flynn could take the deparation out of the position.
The next best case scenario is Cleveland signs Flynn and Tampa still belieiving in Freeman, who looked pretty good last year.
Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
Which looks better to you? This is bascially getting Flynn + drafting mid round QB vs trading lots of picks for Griffin
QB: Flynn, Cousins, Beck (Practice squad: another drafted QB)
RB: Helu, Royster, Hightower, Young
WR: Alston Jeffrey (rd 1), Moss, Hankerson, Gaffney, Armstrong
TE: Cooley, Davis?
OL: add Cody Glenn or Zebrie Sanders (rd 2) to existing line, plus 1 FA
QB: Griffin, Beck, another drafted QB or Grossman
RB: Helu, Royster, Hightower, Young
WR: Moss, Hankerson, Gaffney, Armstrong, Stallworth
TE: Cooley, Davis?
OL: probably add 2 FAs
I like #1 becasue it gets us way younger, adds talent, and takes away putting all of my eggs into Robert Griffin. But I could see how people would vote either way.
QB: Flynn, Cousins, Beck (Practice squad: another drafted QB)
RB: Helu, Royster, Hightower, Young
WR: Alston Jeffrey (rd 1), Moss, Hankerson, Gaffney, Armstrong
TE: Cooley, Davis?
OL: add Cody Glenn or Zebrie Sanders (rd 2) to existing line, plus 1 FA
QB: Griffin, Beck, another drafted QB or Grossman
RB: Helu, Royster, Hightower, Young
WR: Moss, Hankerson, Gaffney, Armstrong, Stallworth
TE: Cooley, Davis?
OL: probably add 2 FAs
I like #1 becasue it gets us way younger, adds talent, and takes away putting all of my eggs into Robert Griffin. But I could see how people would vote either way.
southeastjerome
Footballguy
I like the first scenario too, but I would hate life if they drafted Alshon Jeffrey. I think he has bust written all over him. He will be the next BMW. Book it. I don't see him going anywhere in the top 10. I would spooge if they pulled off scenario one and somehow ended up with Blackmon.
I don't really care as long as they get it right.One note: Grossman is coming back as either a placeholder or 2nd string QB. And despite all I heard on the radio, the Redskins could do a lot worse than Grossman as the backup QB. If Beck is the 3rd string QB, he will be speeddail QB. He won't be on the roster and the Redskins will speed dial Beck if there is an injury. It's not like other teams will be clamoring for Beck to be their 2nd or 3rd string QB.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
My God, the Skins & RGIII appear to be a match made in heaven. You have a city with what has to be one of the largest black fanbases in the country, a kid who will appeal to everyone regardless of color, and a team in real need of a "face". RGIII, if he turns out at least half-way decent, would be a major media star in DC. His only drawback is his size, but all his other assets are off the charts. I really think he could be Drew Brees with dreadlocks & speed.
On another note, I caught London Fletcher on the NFL Network. I'm almost 50 years old so I've been an "aware" football fan for 40-odd years. I can't ever remember a less-appreciated (by the general football public) great player than London. He generates zero buzz and I can't quite figure out why. I know he's not flashy and hasn't played for one of the more successful teams - well, I guess I answered my own question. The guy is a text book classic MLB and I hope he gets the consideration he deserves whenever his name is up for the HOF.
On another note, I caught London Fletcher on the NFL Network. I'm almost 50 years old so I've been an "aware" football fan for 40-odd years. I can't ever remember a less-appreciated (by the general football public) great player than London. He generates zero buzz and I can't quite figure out why. I know he's not flashy and hasn't played for one of the more successful teams - well, I guess I answered my own question. The guy is a text book classic MLB and I hope he gets the consideration he deserves whenever his name is up for the HOF.
He won't which is sad. I think he is just as good as Urlacher or Lewis but I've been just as puzzled as you as why he generates zero buzz.
dgreen
Footballguy
Lewis? No chance. I've never been overly impressed with Urlacher, though. I mean, yeah, he's good. Really good. But, I've really understood why he's considered to be so great.
I hope the Skins aren't interested in Flynn. My dream scenario is the Browns sign Flynn thus taking them out of the RGIII equation. That leaves the Skins and the Dolphins as the only 2 teams really looking for a new QB. The Browns are the only team with better assets to trade.
My dream mock:
1. Indy - Luck
2. Rams - Kalil or Blackmon
3. Vikings - Blackmon or Kalil
4. Browns - Richardson (after signing Flynn to be QB)
5. Bucs - Claiborne
6. Skins - RGIII
My dream mock:
1. Indy - Luck
2. Rams - Kalil or Blackmon
3. Vikings - Blackmon or Kalil
4. Browns - Richardson (after signing Flynn to be QB)
5. Bucs - Claiborne
6. Skins - RGIII
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Sidewinder16
Footballguy
If David Elfin is still a voter maybe he'll take up the cause to convince the voters Fletcher belongs, similar to what he did for Monk.'thayman said:
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
Agreed. I don't see how Grossman is not going to be on the roster next season. And they were smart enough to cut ties with McNabb so I have to assume they'll be smart enough to cut ties with Beck.
There is a lot to happen between now and then but to see Blackmon, Claiborne or RGIII fall would be awesome for the Skins.
fatness
Footballguy
Kyle Shanahan noticably changed his playcalling near the end of the year, to better suit the players on the field. I've been a big Kyle basher because of his stubbornness so I think he deserves credit for this. And more importantly, once one of your coordinators has learned to adapt his playcalling to his personnel, it bodes well for the team's future. Gibbs learned it, and kept from getting fired after 0-5. Kyle has learned it now.Haslett, on the other hand, doesn't seem to have learned a thing. He wasn't a good defensive coordinator when they hired him. And after 1 and 1/2 seasons of lousy defensive play out of his 2 full seasons here, we've seen what he can do. It's time for him to go. Mike can hire someone better. I don't see any team being willing to give up 3 #1 choices for Luck or Griffin. I still don't think the Redskins can afford to move up to get Luck but Griffin is worth moving up for, unless he drops right in their lap. I would easily give up this year and next year's #1 picks for him. That's preferable to 2 consecutive years of saying "we're not high enough to get a franchise QB so we should fill other needs." This car needs a driver. I'd hate to see them bet the farm on Flynn. Year after year in the past they'd go after the flashiest offseason names possible. For one game, starting for the best team in football against an abysmal defense, Flynn looked heroic this year. If they can get him cheap, fine, sign him and see how he does. But don't confuse a hint of cleavage with a lifetime of good sex.
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