Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Ticker on NFLN says Reid has named Foles the starter for the rest of the season.
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The Nick Foles era (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Jed
- Start date
Maik Jeaunz
Footballguy
the Napoleon Dynamite era has begun!
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Reid: "It's the right thing to do"“I think where we’re at right now in the season, it gives him an opportunity to play and finish it up. He’s playing well enough, number one, to where I think he can win football games for us and two, I think where we sit at this position in the season, it’s the right thing to do.”
Insein
Footballguy
He's a rookie with a bad oline in front of him. Those first 2 games were a lot of him looking scared and making bad decisions. The 3rd start he was much improved. Better decisions. Made the right reads. Went further into his progressions. Nice touch on some deep balls. Looked poised and made some key 3rd down conversions. There's potential with this guy. Not elite potential but Matt Schaub, Joe Flacco type of potential. He's starting the rest of this year for sure. Probably will play all of next year for the new coach just so they can see if he's their guy or not. He's young, he's cheap and he's already there. Not a great QB class coming out and the Eagles needs are far greater than QB right now anyway. I think he's there for at least next year and could put up stats in the QB12-20 area depending on what offense the new coach implements.
MAC_32
Footballguy
In a word, bleak.
Insein
Footballguy
"Location: Ohio"
renesauz
IBL Representative
Outlook is certainly bleak fantasy wise, at least short term. As an Eagles fan, it's a little more positive. He seems to be ahead of the normal (pre-2010) rookie in terms of reading a defense, making audibles, etc., and there's legit reason to believe that he could develop into a quality QB. Only an average NFL skillset though, so as another poster said, his ceiling is probably limited to a Schaub type level.
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Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Schaub on a team that had to throw would be more highly considered. His per-attempt measures are better than Romo, Roethlisberger, Manning and Brees -- only trailing Manning and Brady.ETA: I do think Schaub is his best comp though. But if he reaches that same level on a passing team he'll be QB1 during his career peak.
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MAC_32
Footballguy
Completely disagree on his ability to read the field, if the 1st read isn't there bad things happen too often.
renesauz
IBL Representative
I've watched him change the play at the LOS, and adjust his own blocking scheme to what the defense is presenting. I was talking about pre-snap reads...an area where he really is well ahead of the norm (and already superior to Vick). His pre-snap read/adjustment might well be his strength.Post snap reads seem pretty typical of a rookie with just a couple of starts to me. Sometimes he finds the 2nd/3rd read, sometimes he doesn't. He doesn't seem to have happy feet and the game doesn't seem too big for him, but he's a little slow to make the right decisions post-snap....not exactly unusual for a rookie.
Nothing about Foles screams star, but nothing screams incompetant boob with no future either. It's simply too early to tell, especially with this O-line blocking for him.
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MAC_32
Footballguy
He was very good with pre snap reads in college, he's showing the same in the pros. The problem is when the play breaks down or his first read isn't there, bad things often resulted in college and he's showing the same signs in the pros.
ItsOnlytheRiver
Footballguy
Well well....
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Awesome game for Foles today to beat TB. 381 yds passing, 2 PaTDs, 1 RuTD and a great drive to win the game with no TOs. That's 2 good/great games in a row. He's improving.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
He has work to do, no doubt. But people have to stop labeling rookie QBs a bust if they don't light it up in their first 2 or 3 games.
ItsOnlytheRiver
Footballguy
The immediate reaction to condemn him around here was weird. Never understood it.
Insein
Footballguy
If he doesn't help their fantasy team right away, then people condemn the guy. Now that he's had a good game, expect people to start overrating him as a playoff savior.
MAC_32
Footballguy
If Foles is the future, a strong finish is more important than a few draft spots. Read nothing but glowing things throughout the game today, so - 2 in a row. One can be a fluke and two gets attention, three becomes a trend. Big stand alone game Thursday, quick regression and the last 2 weeks are quickly forgotten. Another big performance and it will be very hard for the Eagles to consider someone else under center next year. I'll be watching
Insein
Footballguy
Foles can play well and we can still lose. Our defense can see to that. This team needs a top 5 pick more than we need to "feel good." That momentum at the end of the season crap is nonsense. We won the last 4 last year and all it did was delay the inevitable departure of Andy Reid. We need a top tackle for this oline. That is what Foles needs the most.If Foles is the future, a strong finish is more important than a few draft spots. Read nothing but glowing things throughout the game today, so - 2 in a row. One can be a fluke and two gets attention, three becomes a trend. Big stand alone game Thursday, quick regression and the last 2 weeks are quickly forgotten. Another big performance and it will be very hard for the Eagles to consider someone else under center next year. I'll be watching
MAC_32
Footballguy
You need olinemen, if you win too many games to get one of the two A&M tackles then you can pick among the glutton of solid guards and right tackles that should be there on day 2 and pick a defender in round 1. Younger guys on the defense playing better will help bridge to next year too. Isn't like the entire unit is full of over paid vets and busted picks, may be some guys to build around back there.Foles can play well and we can still lose. Our defense can see to that. This team needs a top 5 pick more than we need to "feel good." That momentum at the end of the season crap is nonsense. We won the last 4 last year and all it did was delay the inevitable departure of Andy Reid. We need a top tackle for this oline. That is what Foles needs the most.If Foles is the future, a strong finish is more important than a few draft spots. Read nothing but glowing things throughout the game today, so - 2 in a row. One can be a fluke and two gets attention, three becomes a trend. Big stand alone game Thursday, quick regression and the last 2 weeks are quickly forgotten. Another big performance and it will be very hard for the Eagles to consider someone else under center next year. I'll be watching
Insein
Footballguy
Getting a top tackle to me (that hopefully pans out) is the key. Peters should come back healthy next year. Add an elite tackle opposite him bookends the line. It then lets Herremans go back to guard. Mathis is better when he has Peters to his left. I'm not sure how Kelce will be without Mudd but he looks like a player. So that's a huge improvement on the oline already with just that one pick. The 2nd and 3rd days will be for grabbing adequate backups so that this mess doesn't happen again. Might take 2 years to fully rebuild but it can be done.You need olinemen, if you win too many games to get one of the two A&M tackles then you can pick among the glutton of solid guards and right tackles that should be there on day 2 and pick a defender in round 1. Younger guys on the defense playing better will help bridge to next year too. Isn't like the entire unit is full of over paid vets and busted picks, may be some guys to build around back there.Foles can play well and we can still lose. Our defense can see to that. This team needs a top 5 pick more than we need to "feel good." That momentum at the end of the season crap is nonsense. We won the last 4 last year and all it did was delay the inevitable departure of Andy Reid. We need a top tackle for this oline. That is what Foles needs the most.If Foles is the future, a strong finish is more important than a few draft spots. Read nothing but glowing things throughout the game today, so - 2 in a row. One can be a fluke and two gets attention, three becomes a trend. Big stand alone game Thursday, quick regression and the last 2 weeks are quickly forgotten. Another big performance and it will be very hard for the Eagles to consider someone else under center next year. I'll be watching
sporthenry
Footballguy
You just said how our "defense can see to that" that we lose any game so why not get an impact player in the draft on that side of the ball. I've seen a lot of the mock drafts have a ton of different guys going from top 15 to top 5 picks. So I'd trade down if someone falls in love with a prospect and get hopefully a first next year (if they continue to lose) or a 2nd. We have 1 Pro Bowl tackle coming back and a second damn good tackle. I know people want to move Herremans over to guard but I feel that we have bigger fish to fry on defense and at this going rate, we won't get a top 5 pick for Joeckel.On paper, the other 10 guys on offense not including Foles are as good as anyone else in the league. Desean, Jeremy, Brent, Kelce, Peters, McCoy, etc.Foles can play well and we can still lose. Our defense can see to that. This team needs a top 5 pick more than we need to "feel good." That momentum at the end of the season crap is nonsense. We won the last 4 last year and all it did was delay the inevitable departure of Andy Reid. We need a top tackle for this oline. That is what Foles needs the most.If Foles is the future, a strong finish is more important than a few draft spots. Read nothing but glowing things throughout the game today, so - 2 in a row. One can be a fluke and two gets attention, three becomes a trend. Big stand alone game Thursday, quick regression and the last 2 weeks are quickly forgotten. Another big performance and it will be very hard for the Eagles to consider someone else under center next year. I'll be watching
MAC_32
Footballguy
Good teams draft starters on day 2, not backups. Good OL starters can be drafted on day 2. This team is more than just an OL away, they have lots of holes needing filled on defense. The first half of the draft must address all of these holes. A productive finish by the young guys on defense and Foles is a good thing, sends you into the offseason with less obvious holes needing filled. If it turns out a tackle is that important then package a pick with your #1 to move up and get one of the A&M guys.Losing for better draft picks only makes sense when there's an obvious stud coming out at a premium position of need. There isn't one at OT, there's a couple that stand out vs. the rest and a couple of others that may rise up over the workout season. No obvious Pro Bowler's though, that's why playing well but making sure you lose doesn't make sense to me here./Getting a top tackle to me (that hopefully pans out) is the key. Peters should come back healthy next year. Add an elite tackle opposite him bookends the line. It then lets Herremans go back to guard. Mathis is better when he has Peters to his left. I'm not sure how Kelce will be without Mudd but he looks like a player. So that's a huge improvement on the oline already with just that one pick. The 2nd and 3rd days will be for grabbing adequate backups so that this mess doesn't happen again. Might take 2 years to fully rebuild but it can be done.You need olinemen, if you win too many games to get one of the two A&M tackles then you can pick among the glutton of solid guards and right tackles that should be there on day 2 and pick a defender in round 1. Younger guys on the defense playing better will help bridge to next year too. Isn't like the entire unit is full of over paid vets and busted picks, may be some guys to build around back there.Foles can play well and we can still lose. Our defense can see to that. This team needs a top 5 pick more than we need to "feel good." That momentum at the end of the season crap is nonsense. We won the last 4 last year and all it did was delay the inevitable departure of Andy Reid. We need a top tackle for this oline. That is what Foles needs the most.If Foles is the future, a strong finish is more important than a few draft spots. Read nothing but glowing things throughout the game today, so - 2 in a row. One can be a fluke and two gets attention, three becomes a trend. Big stand alone game Thursday, quick regression and the last 2 weeks are quickly forgotten. Another big performance and it will be very hard for the Eagles to consider someone else under center next year. I'll be watching
Insein
Footballguy
No I feel it's still a bad thing because it may still mask holes that need to be filled because of a couple weeks where guys desperate to save their jobs played good. And the second part makes no sense. We as fans can hope our team loses to get a better draft pick. As players, if they have even an ounce of pride in their bodies, they're trying to win the game. They ain't trying to lose so the organization can get a better draft pick. I doubt andy is thinking "Gee I better lose so the new coach can get a better player." They are trying to win games. As a fan though, I want them to play well and still lose.Good teams draft starters on day 2, not backups. Good OL starters can be drafted on day 2. This team is more than just an OL away, they have lots of holes needing filled on defense. The first half of the draft must address all of these holes. A productive finish by the young guys on defense and Foles is a good thing, sends you into the offseason with less obvious holes needing filled. If it turns out a tackle is that important then package a pick with your #1 to move up and get one of the A&M guys.Losing for better draft picks only makes sense when there's an obvious stud coming out at a premium position of need. There isn't one at OT, there's a couple that stand out vs. the rest and a couple of others that may rise up over the workout season. No obvious Pro Bowler's though, that's why playing well but making sure you lose doesn't make sense to me here./Getting a top tackle to me (that hopefully pans out) is the key. Peters should come back healthy next year. Add an elite tackle opposite him bookends the line. It then lets Herremans go back to guard. Mathis is better when he has Peters to his left. I'm not sure how Kelce will be without Mudd but he looks like a player. So that's a huge improvement on the oline already with just that one pick. The 2nd and 3rd days will be for grabbing adequate backups so that this mess doesn't happen again. Might take 2 years to fully rebuild but it can be done.You need olinemen, if you win too many games to get one of the two A&M tackles then you can pick among the glutton of solid guards and right tackles that should be there on day 2 and pick a defender in round 1. Younger guys on the defense playing better will help bridge to next year too. Isn't like the entire unit is full of over paid vets and busted picks, may be some guys to build around back there.Foles can play well and we can still lose. Our defense can see to that. This team needs a top 5 pick more than we need to "feel good." That momentum at the end of the season crap is nonsense. We won the last 4 last year and all it did was delay the inevitable departure of Andy Reid. We need a top tackle for this oline. That is what Foles needs the most.If Foles is the future, a strong finish is more important than a few draft spots. Read nothing but glowing things throughout the game today, so - 2 in a row. One can be a fluke and two gets attention, three becomes a trend. Big stand alone game Thursday, quick regression and the last 2 weeks are quickly forgotten. Another big performance and it will be very hard for the Eagles to consider someone else under center next year. I'll be watching
Thankfully there will be a new coach and a new ideology hopefully. The new coach will obviously decide what he needs the most.
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Insein
Footballguy
Disagree on DJax and Maclin. They show flashes here and there but they seem to be average WRs that won't go over the middle. All the tough work is done by Avant and Celek and they are hardly top 10 at their positions. When safeties roll their way, Maclin and Jackson disappear far too often.You just said how our "defense can see to that" that we lose any game so why not get an impact player in the draft on that side of the ball. I've seen a lot of the mock drafts have a ton of different guys going from top 15 to top 5 picks. So I'd trade down if someone falls in love with a prospect and get hopefully a first next year (if they continue to lose) or a 2nd. We have 1 Pro Bowl tackle coming back and a second damn good tackle. I know people want to move Herremans over to guard but I feel that we have bigger fish to fry on defense and at this going rate, we won't get a top 5 pick for Joeckel.On paper, the other 10 guys on offense not including Foles are as good as anyone else in the league. Desean, Jeremy, Brent, Kelce, Peters, McCoy, etc.Foles can play well and we can still lose. Our defense can see to that. This team needs a top 5 pick more than we need to "feel good." That momentum at the end of the season crap is nonsense. We won the last 4 last year and all it did was delay the inevitable departure of Andy Reid. We need a top tackle for this oline. That is what Foles needs the most.If Foles is the future, a strong finish is more important than a few draft spots. Read nothing but glowing things throughout the game today, so - 2 in a row. One can be a fluke and two gets attention, three becomes a trend. Big stand alone game Thursday, quick regression and the last 2 weeks are quickly forgotten. Another big performance and it will be very hard for the Eagles to consider someone else under center next year. I'll be watching
sporthenry
Footballguy
But my main point is, you put those 10 guys together against any offense and I'm not sure any other team has a better combination of 10 guys and if so, not many. We've already seen how explosive this offense can be and McCoy could be a difference maker given the right system but you really think Brees or A-Rod doesn't have as much or more success with the Eagles other 10. As far as Maclin and Desean, they do lack size/strength which kills their RZ efficiency but the only top 2 WR corps I would take over them would be Julio/Roddy. You can make an argument for Nicks/Cruz and Dez/Miles and I couldn't really disagree much but after that, I don't think I'd take any other teams top 2 WRs. As far as Avant, he is an above average WR3 who has a set job. He doesn't have the size to be a complete RZ target but he finds the holes in the defense and is great on 3rd down. Only WR3's I'd want over Avant would possibly be Sanders or Cobb (although he is probably their WR2) or Edelman. I'd say Celek is an above average TE. So combine it all with McCoy and their line healthy and not many teams have an offense like that. The only team I'd take over them offensively would probably be NE and who knows how much of that is Brady/BB. Dallas/NYG/GB/NO/DEN are probably in the discussion as well but I just don't see our offense as the problem assuming Foles is actually the answer.Disagree on DJax and Maclin. They show flashes here and there but they seem to be average WRs that won't go over the middle. All the tough work is done by Avant and Celek and they are hardly top 10 at their positions. When safeties roll their way, Maclin and Jackson disappear far too often.You just said how our "defense can see to that" that we lose any game so why not get an impact player in the draft on that side of the ball. I've seen a lot of the mock drafts have a ton of different guys going from top 15 to top 5 picks. So I'd trade down if someone falls in love with a prospect and get hopefully a first next year (if they continue to lose) or a 2nd. We have 1 Pro Bowl tackle coming back and a second damn good tackle. I know people want to move Herremans over to guard but I feel that we have bigger fish to fry on defense and at this going rate, we won't get a top 5 pick for Joeckel.On paper, the other 10 guys on offense not including Foles are as good as anyone else in the league. Desean, Jeremy, Brent, Kelce, Peters, McCoy, etc.Foles can play well and we can still lose. Our defense can see to that. This team needs a top 5 pick more than we need to "feel good." That momentum at the end of the season crap is nonsense. We won the last 4 last year and all it did was delay the inevitable departure of Andy Reid. We need a top tackle for this oline. That is what Foles needs the most.If Foles is the future, a strong finish is more important than a few draft spots. Read nothing but glowing things throughout the game today, so - 2 in a row. One can be a fluke and two gets attention, three becomes a trend. Big stand alone game Thursday, quick regression and the last 2 weeks are quickly forgotten. Another big performance and it will be very hard for the Eagles to consider someone else under center next year. I'll be watching
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ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Holy homerism. Wow.
sporthenry
Footballguy
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/02/23/ranking-the-2011-offensive-lines-part-2/This has the Eagles as the 2nd best OL behind the Saints last year. In 2010, the last time they had a competent QB, Maclin and Desean were the only teammate receivers who were both top 20 in yardage. Last year, they had Vick along with Maclin's mysterious injury and Desean not trying. Then you add McCoy who was regarded as one of if not the best RBs in the league and he should put their offense over the top. Peterson is obviously on his own but even others in McCoy's league like Richardson, Forte, Rice, Charles aren't on very good teams. I probably should have mentioned Houston earlier but their receiving corps isn't very deep, at least at the moment.
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ItsOnlytheRiver
Footballguy
Thought the same exact thing. Avant is better than whoever you want to consider the Packer's WR3? Come on. The Cowboy WRs are much better than Maclin/Desean. Same with the Giants.
sporthenry
Footballguy
Perhaps reading comprehension is lacking. I said the Packers #3 was better than Avant, I just said the Packers #3 isn't very settled. I also said I'd have no gripes if you went Cowboys or Giants over the Eagles but Miles/Nicks are walking injuries and although Maclin/Desean have had injuries, they don't seem to always be injured but if you want them, then sure. But still, there isn't a lot of top 2 WR's that are above and beyond the Eagles.ETA: It is tough to completely analyze this b/c some WR's are a product of their QB. I'm sure Brady or A-Rod could give Maclin some Pro Bowler numbers so we'll see how they do going forward.
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ShaHBucks
Footballguy
This is the last chance to buy Nick Foles cheaply. Foles will be the leader of the next fastbreak offense in the NFL, not Vick or Barkley. He is the best QB on the team. It's becoming painfully obvious in Philly but the national media hasn't caught onto the hype train. They are still under the impression that a QB needs to run a 4.5 or better to succeed in Chip Kelly's offense. The Eagles draft selection of Matt Barkley should have raised eyebrows and ended the misconception that Chip Kelly needs a running QB to lead his offense. I have read/watched/listened to everything I could find on Chip Kelly and his offense as well as monitoring the QB compitition obsessively. One thing Kelly has repeatedly mentioned was that he designs his offense to fit his personnel. Let that sink in a bit... When asked about his "read option" offense he always dismisses the idea of that being the only system he is capable of coaching. In a pre-game interview he said "I would run the power-I all game if we had the personnel." That sounds a little sarcastic but he also mentioned if he had Tom Brady he wouldn't run him. The analyst (more like former players now) on TV are not doing good research for you, they are guessing about Chip Kelly and everything involving the Eagles.
Chip Kelly just wants to score points. He doesn't care about how those points are scored. He wants to run as many plays as possible. The starting QB will be the guy who is the most accurate and makes quick reads. A quick google search will tell you who has been that guy in OTA's and minicamp. It seems like Mike Vick is starting to notice as well.
Chip Kelly just wants to score points. He doesn't care about how those points are scored. He wants to run as many plays as possible. The starting QB will be the guy who is the most accurate and makes quick reads. A quick google search will tell you who has been that guy in OTA's and minicamp. It seems like Mike Vick is starting to notice as well.
Gawain
Footballguy
This is nice conjecture, but for right now that's all it is. The only thing I've read so far is that Vick took the majority of the OTA first team reps. Do you have any links to either coaches or Philly beat reporters talking about the situation?
ETA-Apparently Foles had a very good day during the last day of activities. I don't think it's enough to anoint him heir apparent.
From http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2013/06/eagles_minicamp_spotlight_trac.html
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I've followed as much as I can yet haven't seen much decisive information. Are you in Philly and getting some local info? If so, I'm sure there are plenty of us who would love to hear some specific info. Thanks.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
From what I gather on local radio, its a toss-up between Vick and Foles. Until training camp starts, its too close to call. I wouldn't go into a draft expecting to grab Vick as my starter just yet.
Khy
Footballguy
I'm a Giants homer and God do I hope Vick is the Week 1 starter, but honestly I'd be completely shocked and floored if Nick Foles wasn't the Week 1 starter. Chip Kelly is a new coach trying to build a well oiled, smart, fast and more importantly young offense. One that can lead the Eagles into a dynasty. He doesn't want a 33 year old, washed up QB who has averaged 2 turnovers a game over the past two seasons. That creates nothing but a bad offense. He wants a guy like Foles who will make smart decisions and is still young enough to be coached out of his bad ones. Vick is too set in his ways. What I see happening is an effective version of what the Jets did last season with Tebow and Sanchez. Foles will be the everydown guy and there will be special packages for Vick to be in on. Unlike Tebow he actually has an arm so bringing him onto the field isn't immediately a queued up draw, he still has the capability to run any play in the book. I'm guessing he'll also be taught to be the holder on FG's and PAT's as his speed, quickness and arm could be devastating in Kelly's much loved swinging gate formation.
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I think Vick is the kind of player that when motivated, can rally an entire team around him and make impressive plays. Year 1, if Chip Kelly wants to be competitive he will start Vick.
There's a new regime and Michael Vick knows his window of opportunity is closing. There's a lot of talented skill players in Philadelphia, I don't think Nick Foles gives them a better chance to win than the veteran Vick.
There's a new regime and Michael Vick knows his window of opportunity is closing. There's a lot of talented skill players in Philadelphia, I don't think Nick Foles gives them a better chance to win than the veteran Vick.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Eagles QB Battle Starting to SimmerThe three-day mandatory minicamp is over, and if first team reps are any indication at this stage, there are just two candidates for the Eagles' starting QB job in 2013: Michael Vick and Nick Foles. The battle will continue through training camp, despite one QB's objections.
Let me preface this by saying that Michael Vick's comeback was nothing short of extraordinary, and his performance in 2010 was like watching a faster, more athletically explosive and polished passer version of Donovan McNabb. It was the height of fun for that one season, but I feel confident asserting he didn't make a permanent transformation. Despite the problems that afflicted the offense in 2011 and 2012, Vick should not escape a sizable portion of the blame for his contributions to the downfall. Yes, Chip Kelly has somewhat justified those struggles, but seeing as how he watched the film, there's no doubt he saw the same flaws all of us did. Vick held onto the ball too long even when he did have time, missed open throws downfield because he dropped his eyes quickly, and just made bad decision after bad decision in general. Michael Vick is what he is, and at age 33, I doubt that's going to change.
Something like 99% of people, fans and media alike, felt that Chip Kelly coming aboard as head coach and the Eagles restructuring Vick's contract into a one-year deal for 2013 meant he would be, without a doubt, the team's starting QB. I mean, after all, who else can run Kelly's hyperactive read option Oregon offense, since that's exactly the same offense he's going to try to install at the NFL level. Oh, right, that's not the case at all, since all indications are it'll be a hybrid offense with college AND pro concepts, mainly predicated on being up-tempo. Also keep in mind Chip plays to his personnel, not a preferred scheme. You don't have to believe that, but I do. If you've read my previous articles or follow me on Twitter, you know that I have been, and continue to be, steadfast in my belief that Nick Foles will win the starting QB job outright. I saw enough from him last season, while playing in adverse circumstances, to conclude that he deserves a chance to show what he can do with a full cavalry of weapons and competent, responsible play-calling. One more thing: Foles, who was recruited to play basketball out of high school by Georgetown University, is a better athlete than he gets credit for. Granted, it's a goofy type of athleticism that leaves you wondering just how the hell he's doing it as it's happening, but athleticism nonetheless.
So far after OTAs and the three-day minicamp in which they essentially split first team reps, it would appear that Foles has performed better and holds the edge, however minuscule and irrelevant at this point, over Vick. But even you and me could look good in shorts and playing against air, without any rush (giant flyswatters aside) or contact, right? Vick has even gone so far as to start airing his grievances with the media and voice his displeasure about having to split reps. He wants Kelly to name a starter before training camp in order to avoid distractions, so the whole team (read: Michael Vick) doesn't have to answer questions about it. What a leader! Meanwhile, Foles continues to keep his head down and his words benign, as he works hard and embraces the opportunity instead of act like he's owed something by the new coaching regime. Here's what I think: It hasn't taken long for Vick to realize that being the starter in Kelly's offense is NOT the slam dunk he expected. He has never in his life had to earnestly compete for the starting job before, and he's feeling insecure about it since Foles is proving a more than worthy opponent. What's the matter, Mike, afraid of a little competition?
Then again, I guess none of this conjecture, posturing and predicting will matter if (when?) Chip Kelly starts out the first month of the season by rotating Foles and Vick for every series, perhaps even sprinkling in Barkley from time to time. I'm eagerly looking forward to the external hysterics that will surely result, win or lose, from this revolutionary practice. It's going to feel so great for my team not to be predictable and boring anymore.
Let me preface this by saying that Michael Vick's comeback was nothing short of extraordinary, and his performance in 2010 was like watching a faster, more athletically explosive and polished passer version of Donovan McNabb. It was the height of fun for that one season, but I feel confident asserting he didn't make a permanent transformation. Despite the problems that afflicted the offense in 2011 and 2012, Vick should not escape a sizable portion of the blame for his contributions to the downfall. Yes, Chip Kelly has somewhat justified those struggles, but seeing as how he watched the film, there's no doubt he saw the same flaws all of us did. Vick held onto the ball too long even when he did have time, missed open throws downfield because he dropped his eyes quickly, and just made bad decision after bad decision in general. Michael Vick is what he is, and at age 33, I doubt that's going to change.
Something like 99% of people, fans and media alike, felt that Chip Kelly coming aboard as head coach and the Eagles restructuring Vick's contract into a one-year deal for 2013 meant he would be, without a doubt, the team's starting QB. I mean, after all, who else can run Kelly's hyperactive read option Oregon offense, since that's exactly the same offense he's going to try to install at the NFL level. Oh, right, that's not the case at all, since all indications are it'll be a hybrid offense with college AND pro concepts, mainly predicated on being up-tempo. Also keep in mind Chip plays to his personnel, not a preferred scheme. You don't have to believe that, but I do. If you've read my previous articles or follow me on Twitter, you know that I have been, and continue to be, steadfast in my belief that Nick Foles will win the starting QB job outright. I saw enough from him last season, while playing in adverse circumstances, to conclude that he deserves a chance to show what he can do with a full cavalry of weapons and competent, responsible play-calling. One more thing: Foles, who was recruited to play basketball out of high school by Georgetown University, is a better athlete than he gets credit for. Granted, it's a goofy type of athleticism that leaves you wondering just how the hell he's doing it as it's happening, but athleticism nonetheless.
So far after OTAs and the three-day minicamp in which they essentially split first team reps, it would appear that Foles has performed better and holds the edge, however minuscule and irrelevant at this point, over Vick. But even you and me could look good in shorts and playing against air, without any rush (giant flyswatters aside) or contact, right? Vick has even gone so far as to start airing his grievances with the media and voice his displeasure about having to split reps. He wants Kelly to name a starter before training camp in order to avoid distractions, so the whole team (read: Michael Vick) doesn't have to answer questions about it. What a leader! Meanwhile, Foles continues to keep his head down and his words benign, as he works hard and embraces the opportunity instead of act like he's owed something by the new coaching regime. Here's what I think: It hasn't taken long for Vick to realize that being the starter in Kelly's offense is NOT the slam dunk he expected. He has never in his life had to earnestly compete for the starting job before, and he's feeling insecure about it since Foles is proving a more than worthy opponent. What's the matter, Mike, afraid of a little competition?
Then again, I guess none of this conjecture, posturing and predicting will matter if (when?) Chip Kelly starts out the first month of the season by rotating Foles and Vick for every series, perhaps even sprinkling in Barkley from time to time. I'm eagerly looking forward to the external hysterics that will surely result, win or lose, from this revolutionary practice. It's going to feel so great for my team not to be predictable and boring anymore.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
I've been following this pretty closely and I'd guess that the range of predictions from observers I've read would go from dead even to 65/35 in favor of Foles. I haven't read anyone that thinks Vick is winning the competition. IMO Vick's frustrations reflect that.
However, even the people leaning towards Foles are almost all quick to point out that he cannot run the read option, and no one's sure what that does in terms of Kelly's eventual decision.
However, even the people leaning towards Foles are almost all quick to point out that he cannot run the read option, and no one's sure what that does in terms of Kelly's eventual decision.
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Mr Non Sequitur
Footballguy
Very difficult to find opinions from people who are objective. Most have a built in hatred for Vick and even when he is performing well folks still beat him down. The guy has done some marvelous things in his NFL career and when people act like unrolling Vick is the death of an offense, just silly IMO when he is one of the Godfathers of the new prototype QB for some teams with a combination of mobility and the ability to chuck it 70 yards at the same time. Think whatever you want, write him off, I doubt if he was not going to be the starter that Kelly would have kept him there or gave him all these snaps. Vick is no back up to Nick Foles.
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Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Especially on a message board.
You could be right that all the guys tracking completions and counting turnovers are cheating to make Vick look bad. But it seems more likely you don't like what you're reading.
Khy
Footballguy
Sorry I just do not agree, there's a 'small chance' in my opinion that Vick wins the job in camp. If he does it's going to be by the tiniest of margins. But anyone who has watched tape on Vick from these past two seasons can see how bad he folds under pressure. He's a step above Romo and Gabbert at best in that department. If he can't use his speed to get out of the pocket fast enough he makes a turnover as evidant by his 1.9 turnovers/game in 2011 and his 2.1 from 2012. So while he may look like Jesus on Ice while in OTAs and Practice I'm going out on a limb and saying Chip Kelly has watched PLENTY of Vick footage to understand he isn't the guy that will lead his team to a Super Bowl. He can sacrifice Vicks explosive upside for a smarter QB who can properly lead and run an offense. It also doesn't boast well for Vick that he is already becoming a loud mouth to the media expressing his disappointment that he hasn't been handed the job yet. He clearly doesn't even think there is a competition going on and should be the lead guy no matter what. I think he's in for a rude awakening if that's going to be his attitude throughout camp.
Mr Non Sequitur
Footballguy
I guess things have been pretty normal in Philly the last 2 seasons. He lost an All Pro LT last season and Andy Reid was and still is a walking psychiatric project as his kid overdosed at camp last season and he just went on like nothing happened. I can definitely read the TD and Int, just because I said it is hard to find folks objective doesn't mean I am blindly supporting Vick. Kelly was the new coach, it took a 2nd round of talks to get him to come there to Philly, he didn't jump at the first interest of the team. Some think he ran from Oregon due to possible sanctions. I'm sure if he didn't want Vick and that $100M contract he could have told the owner we must go in a different direction. He passed on EJ Manuel and Geno Smith in the draft.wdcrob said:
Obviously the comment you made makes you feel righteous and that just furthers my original point. I am but one poster who is simply questioning why he is getting a big chunk of the 1st team touches if Foles is the guy. If that's the case then he(Foles) should be taking all the 1st team snaps. After 2010, Philly made a lot of changes to the roster and in 2011 they were talking Dream Team, what happened over the next 18 months was nothing short of a disaster and while Vick could share some of the blame I point the fingers at Andy Reid, other coaches on staff both offense and defense. I think the return of a solid OL that was in shambles last year and a new offense is going to spurn Vick on. You don't have to feel that way, most don't. Vick is like QB 20 something off the board so no one is going to stretch for him. I think folks will be surprised and I will be happy to come back in here and talk about it week 1 of the season or during camp.
Did Foles do anything to make folks feel he was the next big thing last season?
Mr Non Sequitur
Footballguy
Correct, and why would that be?Khy said:
Mr Non Sequitur
Footballguy
I don't want a tug o'war with the Foles supporters who I don't believe really think Foles is a future perennial top 15-20 QB for the Eagles. In fact I think as usual it is more Vick hate as it always is. It's just easier when the stats go your way. Same folks were screaming murder when Vick was torching the NFL in 2010.
Vick is going to force the Eagles to either start him or release him. I think if they do cut him which they don't want to do because it leaves them extremely vulnerable and only a Foles ankle twist away form a completely not ready for prime time Matt Barkley. If they release Vick I expect him to be signed rather quickly, he is the fastest player at his position in the NFL. I could even see a team that doesn't have any questions about their starting QB picking Vick up just as insurance or for gadget plays.
I would say Vick is better than the QBs on at least 5 NFL teams, maybe closer to 10. And that's why it is hard to take folks seriously or objective when they toss names out like Gabbert in the same sentence as Vick. I don't have a dog in this fight, but to compare Vick to Gabbert is silly.
Edit to add: Put Vick on the Jags and you might have a borderline playoff team. Want to compare Vick and Gabbert then?
Vick is going to force the Eagles to either start him or release him. I think if they do cut him which they don't want to do because it leaves them extremely vulnerable and only a Foles ankle twist away form a completely not ready for prime time Matt Barkley. If they release Vick I expect him to be signed rather quickly, he is the fastest player at his position in the NFL. I could even see a team that doesn't have any questions about their starting QB picking Vick up just as insurance or for gadget plays.
I would say Vick is better than the QBs on at least 5 NFL teams, maybe closer to 10. And that's why it is hard to take folks seriously or objective when they toss names out like Gabbert in the same sentence as Vick. I don't have a dog in this fight, but to compare Vick to Gabbert is silly.
Edit to add: Put Vick on the Jags and you might have a borderline playoff team. Want to compare Vick and Gabbert then?
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Insein
Footballguy
Because he's a former #1 overall pick that has had 2 $100mil contracts in his lifetime that doesn't recognize the situation that he is in. The coach has said it will be a competition from day 1. Unlike Andy Reid, Kelly has done everything he's said so far. So when he says its a competition, then it is. That's why Foles and Vick have been splitting the snaps pretty evenly. Vick thinks that he is the starter based on his past accomplishments when Kelly has stated otherwise so far. Nothing so far has placed Foles or Vick above one or the other. They are pretty even. If that stays that way through the mini camps and into training camp, I can't see why they would keep Vick on. If he's here week 1, he gets a sizable roster bonus. So if he's no better than Foles, I think Kelly parts ways.
Mr Non Sequitur
Footballguy
That's a fair post. It would seem you also feel Reid was a debacle his last 2 years. And with that said and what you wrote, I think Vick is smart to press this action now. He can land on another team and still be in line to start by the time the season rolls on. In this thread it would seem some folks feel he needs to file his retirement papers now.
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