Steelers4Life
Footballguy
Bingo. There's a reason why the Steelers didn't feel he's worth what he wants and almost all Steelers fans agree with them. Doesn't mean we wouldn't want him playing, but not at what it would've cost.
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RB Le'Veon Bell, FA - 9.6.21 Workout For Baltimore (12 Viewers)
- Thread starter Eminence
- Start date
TripleThreat
Footballguy
so has anyone traded for him or traded him away?
What'd you give/get?
What'd you give/get?
tlovyankee
Footballguy
i might offer up freeman for him.
I have
fournette, adp, breida, carson, r.jones
1 pt per 10 yds and 6pts tds
I have
fournette, adp, breida, carson, r.jones
1 pt per 10 yds and 6pts tds
Not like anybody can figure out whats in Bell or his agent's head but...is the feeling that the Steelers winning or losing would prompt an earlier return?
Like if they're 3-1-1 or 4-2-1, he'd be more interested in being a part of that.
Or if they're 2-3-1, his importance will have been underscored and he can play the hero role.
Or is he just Team Le'Veon and nothing else really matters?
Like if they're 3-1-1 or 4-2-1, he'd be more interested in being a part of that.
Or if they're 2-3-1, his importance will have been underscored and he can play the hero role.
Or is he just Team Le'Veon and nothing else really matters?
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Steelers4Life
Footballguy
It's not about the team or success. It's about how much he can get paid and how much is guaranteed. Nothing wrong with that, it's a business, but that's all he cares about and the entire reason for not signing the tender.
Donkey Derp
Footballguy
Bell's first three games last year:Seriously? A guy has one good game, and that somehow puts him on equal footing with one of the universally recognized top RBs in the game?
Conner's games this year:
31 rush/135 rush yards/2 rush TD/5 rec/ 57 rec yards-GREAT GAME
8 rush/17 rush yards/1 rush TD/5 rec/48 rec yards-BAD GAME
15 rush/ 61 rush yards/0 rush TD/ 5 rec/34 rec yards-AVERAGE GAME **until the last drive, where Pitt was killing the clock, Conner had 10 rush for 12 yards**
That's just foolish. Following that premise, Pitt should cut AB, as they'll save $39M against the cap over the next 3 years, and Smith-Shuster is just as good as him (better, even?) since he's had a couple of good games.
SMH
10 rush/32 yards; 3 rec/15 yards
27 rush/87 yards; 4 rec/4 yards
15 rush/61 yards/1 TD; 6 rec 37 yards
Donkey Derp
Footballguy
matuski said:
453 yards of offense per game
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Bell's production was down last season. He had some monster games but very few long runs. I think defenses caught on to his "delay and then burst" move a little bit.
Donkey Derp
Footballguy
Also, how much of this situation is a distraction? Missing practices, camps, and wanting to get paid before getting injured. He started out really slow last year and probably would have done the same this year too.
He's never been one to give you many long runs. His body composition is, or least was, a lot different then he was in college but I recall the major knock on him entering the league was the he was a plodder and I think there some number getting thrown around a lot the his longest run of his career in college was barely over 40 yards. Something like that, if I'm wrong on that someone please correct me. In his last 27 games which cover his last two seasons he's had one run over 40 yards and just 7 over 20 yards. That's on 582 carries.
So never been a big play guy but last year his YPC took a major nosedive and a friend of mine reminded me a few weeks ago, when I was complaining to him about having taken Bell in some early drafts in June and July, that I had told him late last year I would not draft Bell as a top 3-4 pick next year. Advice I gave and afraid I forgot but on the flip side even a plodding Bell last year was a consistent fantasy force. But to me, he no doubt looked run down last year and if that's the case I can certainly see why Steelers would not want to ink him to a deal they could not get out of after the 2019 season. For Bell I think he's making a poor financial decision right now missing game checks but maybe he felt he was a bit sluggish last year and might think taking all or most of a year off might do him some good. (and let me say ahead of time I believe wear and tear is real on RB's)
He started slow and ended slow. He basically had a huge October last year where in a 4 game stretch he his to 3 rushing games of the year. Only went over 100 yards one other game all year other then those 3.
That's a really weak take.
Week 12, 95 yards rushing to go with 12 catches for 88 yards receiving.
Week 13, 76 yards rushing to go with 5 catches for 106 yards and a receiving TD
Week 14, 2 rushing TDs, 9 catches for 77 yards and a receiving TD
Week 15, over 150 combined yards and a rushing TD
Week 16, 97 combined yards and a rushing TD
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
How great an NFL trade market could their be for Bell at this point? A potential new team still can't sign him to a contract beyond 2018. If Bell wanted to limit his touches, he could still refuse to play more than 6 games no matter what the team on his jersey says. The Steelers could line up a trade to move him, but all Bell has to do is not sign the franchise tender and he would effectively block the trade.
If I am the potential new team, I would have to be very concerned that I would only be getting Bell for 6 games. Some team might figure it could be worth offering a late pick for him (say a 5th round pick) to essentially buy an early compensatory pick to pay 6 weeks of Bell. Is moving from the 5th round to the end of the 3rd / top of the 4th round worth $5 million? I doubt it.
The other matter that could complicate a trade is the trade deadline is 10/30. For Bell to play in 6 games this year to get credit for playing this season (and thus likely avoid getting franchise tagged again next year at the $27 million rate), he would have to suit up for the 11/25 game @ DEN. So a team could have to consummate a trade and not even see Bell for almost a month (assuming he would sign the tender to be traded).
If I am the potential new team, I would have to be very concerned that I would only be getting Bell for 6 games. Some team might figure it could be worth offering a late pick for him (say a 5th round pick) to essentially buy an early compensatory pick to pay 6 weeks of Bell. Is moving from the 5th round to the end of the 3rd / top of the 4th round worth $5 million? I doubt it.
The other matter that could complicate a trade is the trade deadline is 10/30. For Bell to play in 6 games this year to get credit for playing this season (and thus likely avoid getting franchise tagged again next year at the $27 million rate), he would have to suit up for the 11/25 game @ DEN. So a team could have to consummate a trade and not even see Bell for almost a month (assuming he would sign the tender to be traded).
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Agreed. Very unlikely he gets traded at this point. Before July 16 it would have been much easier.
I said nothing about the catches which is really more volume based and more of a PPR fantasy issue then discussing real life performance.tangfoot said:
He averaged just over 3.5 yards a carry the second half of the season and had one 100 yard game. That's not a weak take, that's reality.
Melvin Gordon had a single 100 yard game and averaged under 3.8 yards per carry in 2017. Disgusting, and completely replaceable level production. Oh wait, he also had 52 catches for 445 yards and 12 total TDs...
My point is that you're ignoring half or more of Bell's value to his team and not accounting for the massive TD production. Sure, go ahead and say that the back half of his season was a disaster, but that team rode into the playoffs on his back and he single-handedly won innumerable fantasy championships with that suck-### finish to his season.
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Im not talking about fantasy. Before going off half cocked try and read what I wrote. I had said earlier that a plodding Bell was still a fantasy force.
I addressed his NFL value prior to mentioning anything to do with fantasy. Try to keep up, although I do realize that several lines of text may be difficult to read all in one sitting.
msommer
Footballguy
So, how many defensive helpers have the Steelers signed with their additional 2.7m from these first three weeks after which they are 1-1-1 while giving up 90 points?
Steelers4Life
Footballguy
How many impact players do think are just sitting out there, unsigned right now?
It'll come in handy next year though.
Donkey Derp
Footballguy
Bell held out before the 2017 season, held out before the 2018 season, Conner has outperformed him to start the season and your response is some random ### sample.
msommer
Footballguy
Your defense gives up an average of 30 points a game.
I'd suspect there are FAs that could assist
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I don't believe things work that way as far as the cap goes. PIT still has to hold the entire $14,544,000 as a placeholder for Bell as long as he is tagged. They don't get any cap relief as long as he is tagged. I believe that the outcomes are:
1) if they remove the franchise tag, they will get an instant credit for the $14.5 million to their salary cap total for this season.
2) If he eventually signs for the same weekly rate ($855,00 per week) and gets paid for the number of weeks he is available this year (the bye week counts as a week). I believe the total for whatever weeks he was not paid for would be credited to next year's salary cap.
3) If PIT works out a trade, I am not sure what would happen. I believe (although am not entirely sure) that the new team would take a cap hit of $855,000 for each week remaining in the season at the point they acquired him. If the Steelers never paid him anything this year, I believe they would get the $14.5 million credit added to next year's cap (again, not as sure about this one). I am not sure how the franchise tender agreement reads, as it normally guarantees the player the full amount of the franchise tag. Not sure if that makes the pay for the contract a bonus (since it is immediately guaranteed) or a salary. There is a difference, as the team making the trade has to eat the salary cap hit on unpaid bonus money while the acquiring team usually has to pick up the tab on money that has not been paid out yet.
YOU randomly picked 3 games (conveniently Conners best 3 games) to try to back up a weak argument that he is the same caliber player as a 2-time All-Pro, 3-time 1800+YFS RB.
Good Day.
Donkey Derp
Footballguy
What other sample of games should we use for Conner?YOU randomly picked 3 games (conveniently Conners best 3 games) to try to back up a weak argument that he is the same caliber player as a 2-time All-Pro, 3-time 1800+YFS RB.
Good Day.
Donkey Derp
Footballguy
Bell's first three career starts:
51/184/2; 8/55
Conner's first three career starts:
54/213/3; 15/139
Somehow all of the clueless trolls have definitively figured out that Bell is better than Conner (especially at a fraction of the price tag)
51/184/2; 8/55
Conner's first three career starts:
54/213/3; 15/139
Somehow all of the clueless trolls have definitively figured out that Bell is better than Conner (especially at a fraction of the price tag)
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It doesn’t matter; add all of his career touches up, pretend they occurred on 1 game, it won’t matter. He IS NOT the same caliber RB as Bell. Doesn’t mean he is bad, but Bell is elite. Trying to pretend he is on the same level as Bell, because he had 1 great game & 2 average ones, and Bell had 3 average games to start last year is just silly.What other sample of games should we use for Conner?
If you want to pretend that Conner is as good as Bell, go right ahead, but that’s what yiu’ll be doing: pretending.
Are these clueless trolls the same people that have made Bell a 2-time first team All-Pro, and a 2nd team All-Pro a 3rd year?
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Not questioning Bell's talent, he is a top tier RB, but Pitt does feel like a system that relies on a bellcow approach, and as long as that bellcow is serviceable, they'll be fine on offense.
Watching their offense play at these levels the first few weeks, it makes sense not wanting to tie up so much cap space at RB.
Conner is now an important part of my team, as he prob is to a lot of posters in this thread, as it has become a de facto Bell (and Conner) thread, for now. Trying to figure out how I handicap this for the ROS.
Watching their offense play at these levels the first few weeks, it makes sense not wanting to tie up so much cap space at RB.
Conner is now an important part of my team, as he prob is to a lot of posters in this thread, as it has become a de facto Bell (and Conner) thread, for now. Trying to figure out how I handicap this for the ROS.
Donkey Derp
Footballguy
I've never seen a FBG mod tell someone to leave this board, but it makes more and more sense every time you post.I don’t see a trade happening. Pitt would have to get a deal are worked out, THEN get Bell to agree to sign prior to the trade deadline (week 8, I think?). If there’s nothing in it for Bell (i.e.-the entire $14.5M, not just the pro-rated amount), I don’t see why he’d sign. I also don’t see why he wouldn’t sign by week 10.
Basically it all depends, IMO, on whether you think the Steelers will refuse to play Bell when he signs.
Whatever, guy.
Bell is a 2-time All Pro RB (the second time being just last year, so it’s not like we’re talking about Emmitt in Arizona here), while Conner has one great game. You’re trying to use this as evidence that Conner is as good as Bell, but you are calling others trolls and clueless? OK.
Donkey Derp
Footballguy
2013 Bell averages: 96.48 yards, .615 TDs
2018 Conner averages: 117.33 yards, 1 TD
2018 Conner averages: 117.33 yards, 1 TD
Team Smokin'
Footballguy
I keep hoping to hear some real positive news before I'm ousted from my FFPC league. I had the third overall pick.
Drop it. Get 100% back to football if you want to post here.
matuski
Footballguy
Zilch although 30 a game against the high powered offenses is not starting to seem quite that bad. Wasn't last night 2 of the better D's in the league?
Donkey Derp
Footballguy
I love all the posts trying to sort of kind of imply Conner is better than Bell.
People are so salty their magic football player is sitting out, yet they can't bring themselves to actually say it - because they know how stupid that would be.
I drafted Conner several rounds later than a guy who currently has ZERO real life or fantasy production in 2018.
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bryhamm
Footballguy
bryhamm
Footballguy
holy crap ... randomly ?!?!?YOU randomly picked 3 games (conveniently Conners best 3 games) to try to back up a weak argument that he is the same caliber player as a 2-time All-Pro, 3-time 1800+YFS RB.
Good Day.
Donkey Derp
Footballguy
2013 was Bell's first season as a starter.You are truly bad at trolling.
I mean.. wtf.
2018 was Conner's first season as a starter.
A two second google search could have told you that.
AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
Donkey Derp
Footballguy
matuski
Footballguy
Donkey Derp
Footballguy
College stats:
Conner
698 rush/rec; 4145 yards; 5.9 average; 56 TDs
Bell
749 rush/rec; 3877 yards; 5.2 average; 34 TDs
Conner
698 rush/rec; 4145 yards; 5.9 average; 56 TDs
Bell
749 rush/rec; 3877 yards; 5.2 average; 34 TDs
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