Birdie048
Footballguy
While I agree, OC might struggle to utilize him best., At TB, Arians giving the OC keys to Leftwich is a big unknown IMO.
Limited experience with such a talent might be a challenge for him to reach his full potential.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
RB Le'Veon Bell, FA - 9.6.21 Workout For Baltimore (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter Eminence
- Start date
Limited experience with such a talent might be a challenge for him to reach his full potential.
cloppbeast
Footballguy
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Tampa has no cap space. Like, none. Maybe if they release a few guys in the next couple weeks. They just tagged Donovan Smith as well at $14M.
Milkman
Footballguy
Gandalf
Footballguy
Milkman
Footballguy
I don't know how anybody could say Bell is definitively better. DJ has had a 400 point FF season. It doesn't get any better than that does it?
cloppbeast
Footballguy
Only thing is, this is based on him producing in a favorable situation: Ben, good o line, and Brown to attract defensive attention. He hasn't had to deal with what DJ did in 2018. So no data on the matter.
Gandalf
Footballguy
Gandalf
Footballguy
Well it’s good Bell won’t be going to the 2018 Arizona team. I think he would have outproduced DJ if he was there though
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Well in fairness a lot of it wasn't Johnson's fault - they didn't throw him the ball which would also hurt Bell's production. I do think Bell is better than DJ, but they're close enough and the bottom line is the situation can either help or hurt a RBs production. A bad o-line or terrible play calling is tough to overcome no matter how great the back is.
Last edited by a moderator:
Milkman
Footballguy
It'll be interesting to see how people feel after this year about who's better Bell or DJ.
If Arizona drafts Murray then DJ is going to be in one of the best offensive situations in the NFL. Bell is going to chase the money (as he should) and most likely be in one of the worst situations in the NFL.
If Arizona drafts Murray then DJ is going to be in one of the best offensive situations in the NFL. Bell is going to chase the money (as he should) and most likely be in one of the worst situations in the NFL.
Gandalf
Footballguy
Of course. I think the point I’m trying to push back on is that Bell was a product of the Steelers. I think the Steelers helped but he was really good. We just haven’t seen him in a while AND he’s a head case which turns people off, but man was he good at football
Gandalf
Footballguy
For the record I think both are awesome. Not sure how this became the is bell better than DJ thread. Both are great.
Milkman
Footballguy
I agree both are awesome. It became that because you stated Bell will do great no matter where he goes. Basically you're saying Bell is significantly better than DJ. I don't see that and reading the tea leaves a bit here barring injury I'm seeing a career year for DJ next season. Bell is headed in the other direction though. No way he's on a better offense next year.
irish eyes
Footballguy
One of the best offensive situations in the nfl??That's crazy talk. Arizona has an awful roster and a rookie QB isn't coming in and making it one of the best offenses.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
My concern with Bell would be simple as a GM; I feel like he's a guy that gets paid and loses his motivation. The talent is undeniable, but I can't imagine a guy who is truly dedicated and loves the game so much that they would sit a year bc they were only making $15mm for the year.
I get it, the guaranteed money, yada yada yada - but someone who really loves the game sitting an entire season in their prime while a member of a competitive team, while declining $15mm. I'd never be able to justify that investment.
I get it, the guaranteed money, yada yada yada - but someone who really loves the game sitting an entire season in their prime while a member of a competitive team, while declining $15mm. I'd never be able to justify that investment.
Gandalf
Footballguy
Haha yes he’s an idiot but to then make the leap that this means he is no longer good at football is conflating two issues
Gandalf
Footballguy
I think the team that signs him needs to be eyeing a Super Bowl. This signing would be all about having Le’Veon Bell during the playoffs and if I want to win and didn’t have a great RB, I would sign him.
Milkman
Footballguy
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Undersized athletic QBs always worry me.
ETA: Wilson is the only guy I can think of that can be mobile and avoid the contact. Younger athletic guys really need to take notes on his game.
Last edited by a moderator:
Milkman
Footballguy
This one's different buddy. He's Tyreek Hill with B+ quarterback skills. That's going open things up big time for DJ.
This is one way to look at it, another way would be that a GM could feel like he's a guy that gets paid and wants to prove he's worth the money. I can imagine a guy who is tired of being at a disadvantage because of the NFL's CBA using what little leverage he has under that CBA and coming back and playing great.
The thing is you might be right or I might be right. But we won't know, because we aren't NFL GMs and we won't get to meet with Bell before offering him a contract to speak to him, conduct a "job interview," so to speak, and try to figure out which kind of guy he is. We're just speculating, with nothing to base it on. Whatever GM's do, or don't, offer him a deal WILL have a bit more to work with.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
I'm not doubting his talent, I'm doubting his longevity. There is only one guy who has been undersized and used his legs a lot that hasn't been derailed by injuries that I can think of in recent years.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
We're all speculating, but I feel I have some strong evidence to base my speculation on.
If you really loved something, and someone offered you $15mm to do it for 17 weeks, would you? Now the number is only relevant to a specific comparison, and this comparison puts that number as the average of the top 3 in the field, so it isn't like the $15mm is lowball.
Milkman
Footballguy
Yeah he doesn't take big hits. Slides to avoid contact all the time. I wish he would have ran the 40 at the combine. I think he would have ran in the 4.3s......
Anyway I'm done derailing the thread. Lol
Hankmoody
Footballguy
edit: actually it's 100% that this isn't accurateIf we had an emoji that danced, I'd use it right now. This is close.
No way do the Jets need this tip-toeing malcontent who is one puff away from a long, long suspension.
Last edited by a moderator:
Shawnky
Footballguy
Milkman
Footballguy
Gandalf
Footballguy
Gandalf
Footballguy
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Except when Murray steals those 5 yard or less TDs that should go to the RB or the big redzone WR. I remember having Eddie George and watching McNair steal TD after TD. He had 12 rushing TDs last year and it's not like he's magically going to stop running.
Shawnky
Footballguy
You actually think Murray will be used inside the 5 like a McNair or Cam? He's not built like a linebacker or Tom Brady for that matter.
If you really loved something that was extremely dangerous, could greatly diminish your quality of life, could be taken away from you at any moment, was the only way you could provide for yourself and your family, was allowing your employer to make many times what you might be paid, and your only option (other than doing what you loved for less than you thought you were worth) was to not do it for a short period, knowing that you’re all but guaranteed to get that $15M at a later point, wouldn’t you make that choice. It remains to be seen what contract Bell will get, but I can guarantee he will get an offer for at least $15M. So the argument that “if he loves the game, he wouldn’t have sat out, especially when he could have gotten $15M” is flawed. He will get that $15M. The sitting out was a business decision, not, not a passion/dedication decision.
Two in the hand is worth two in the bush. Do you really think Bell won’t get at least that $14.5M he would have made last year?
Terribly flawed assessment. You have no way of knowing that. Zero. He logs another 400 carries last year and shreds his knee in the playoffs, he might be getting a contract with two million guaranteed this offseason.
It’s a debate that’s pointless, unless he gets a bunch of #### offers of less than 15 million guaranteed this offseason (unlikely), because we’ll never know how it would have played out.
Not that he will be 'used'. Fake handoffs, then he will elect to run it himself instead of throwing it.
Last edited by a moderator:
Nobody said anything about “catching up.” The premise was that “bell doesn’t love football, because if he did, he woulda even done it for $15M.” It wasn’t an either/or situation; he will get that $15M on his next contract, guaranteed. And he can love football. Sitting out was the only option he had if he didn’t want to play on a 1 year deal. And he doesn’t have to make $15M this year and next year. You are assuming facts not in evidence. We don’t know that he wouldn’t have blown out his knee, or (God forbid) have suffered an injury like Shaziers. If a situation like that had happened & he was playing under a 1 year deal, the $15M was all he would have received.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
We can make this what if argument in circles until we're all blue in the face.Bayhawks said:
At what guaranteed dollar amount do you think he would need to obtain for this holdout to have been worth it? He punted $15mm and a year during his prime, that is the only fact in this equation.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
If Bell blew out his Achilles in November like Dez did, what sort of contract would LeVeon be likely to get next week?
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
If he ran for 2k yards and didn't skip a beat, what type of contract would he be looking at?
See, making these what if arguments are pretty easy.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
That's really not the point. You and many others have argued that he was essentially guaranteed $14.5 million AND a big contract as a free agent. But that is not automatically the case. Since you didn't answer my question, I will take a stab at it.
Bell coming back and suffering a catastrophic injury late in the year would not have been that surprising given he had no training camp, was not in game shape, and probably would have been asked to be a bell cow again. If he had suffered such an injury in December, that would have put his entire 2019 season at risk. He would have been lucky to get a one year, $6 million prove it deal that had only a $1 or 2 million guaranteed. Who knows if he would even have gotten on the field for 2019 at all (and thus been in the same situation for 2020). At that point, he'd be looking for a long-term deal not having played for 2 seasons at age 28.
Don't say it doesn't ever happen. Jamaal Charles found himself in that same exact situation at age 30, went on to make only $2.3 million dollars combined from two other teams, and washed out of the league. I'm pretty sure Charles wished he held out after having producing almost 3,200 YFS and 33 total TD in 2013-2014. He struggled to stay on the field for 4 more seasons and made an average of $3 million in those years.
So in my example, Bell would have earned $14.5 million last year, $6 million this year, and MAYBE $5 million next year possible from a third team. Call it $25 million for 2018-19-20 had he suffered a gruesome injury last year. I would bet Bell will get more than that in guaranteed money next week and will end up making far more combined for 2018-19-20 than that $25 million injury projection number.
That's the rationale for why he did what he did . . . even if others think he left lots of money on the table by not playing last year.
As for your example, had Bell rushed for 2k yards, PIT could have tagged him again and potentially we would be in the same situation as last year all over again. Except the chances of Bell getting injured would have multiplied times 400 carries plus whatever he would have accumulated had the Steelers made the playoffs.
The only fact in the equation that you referenced (punting on $14.5 million last year) will soon have another fact . . . whatever he gets guaranteed next week. If that number is greater than $14.5 million, than he will have made more than if he risked playing at all last season (even if he remained healthy). That's not saying he couldn't have made a lot more had he stayed healthy, but the "fact" would be that he made more than $14.5 million.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
tldr
I asked a very straightforward question, I even prefaced by saying let's not play the what if game.
rockaction
Footballguy
Hey @Hankmoody, you are correct. I went back and looked up where Bell stands in the drug protocol. For some reason, he does not stand anywhere, though he is eligible to be tested as soon as he signs with a team, per reports.Hankmoody said:
So I'm wrong. Mea culpa. I should have known where he was along in the program.
I still don't want him on the Jets.
He also punted $33M over 2 years if he wanted so if he was concerned about a massive injury this year and that would have covered him. You won't find a credible source, an ex-GM, front office person, agent, anyone with any ounce of credibility and understanding of contracts that is arguing he did not make a financial mistake. Only Bell lovers in this thread. He made such a bad business decision that last time I tried to bring it up in this thread someone tried to change the narrative and start talking about lifestyle choices and what a year off meant to him.
Sanders blew his out in December and Denver is willing to pay him over $10m next year or about $8M then they would have to pay him if they cut him.
Then the only objective analysis of not playing the "what if" game is this:
- If Bell had played last year, he was guaranteed $14.5 million.
- If Bell gets more than $14.5 million guaranteed in his contract this month, then he guaranteed himself more money by sitting out the year. That's the bottom line. That's the only thing we'll ever be able to measure in this argument.
There is no way to know what his total career earnings from 2018 through end of career will be had he played last year as compared to what they will end up being after he sat out last year. This debate is pointless. Call Bell an idiot all you want, but there's no way for you, I, Bell, or anyone else to know which was the "correct" decision to maximize the money in his bank account at retirement as there is no way to even remotely predict what would have happened had he played for Pittsburgh last season.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
What do you think DEN would give Sanders if he were a free agent just signing now with the Broncos? A multi-year deal with tons of guaranteed money?
Similar threads
