jurb26
Footballguy
Pretty harsh seeng Glennon lost his starting RB, back up RB and most of his oline last year. Despite all that and being a rookie, he did pretty well.
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QB Mike Glennon, NYG (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Faust
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
He did a lot better than many FF owners expected, I'm sure there was a rush to pick up defenses that were playing him but that never worked out so well. He held his own, scored some points for the Bucs along the way. He looks skinny but he produced.
Premier
Footballguy
People keep saying this but you can still watch a guy on tape and project him out. It's not like he was being tackled as soon as he took the snap or was running around like a Benny Hill sketch.
jurb26
Footballguy
I watched him some last year. He looked like a rookie with promise to me. Hesitant at times but always seemed composed. I'm not sure what you expected from him that you didn't see. I sure as hell don't think McCown is an upgrade but I could be wrong.
Quez
Footballguy
I thought Glennon did alright considering the situation he was in. If he would of had a better slot option & oline play things would have been much better. He did a good job of avoiding sacks, and was surprisingly more mobile than he looks. He also did a decent job at avoiding turnovers and throwing the ball away. If he could get a little more accurate with his deep passes he would be a really good QB.
Tau837
Footballguy
Those saying he played pretty well, based on what, exactly? What metrics, and what constitutes "pretty well"?
If he played pretty well, especially for a rookie, how do you explain McCown?
I watched every game he played in college and did not view him as more than a career backup/journeyman entering the draft. Given he is a fellow alum, I hope he proves me wrong, but so far I'm not seeing any evidence I am.
If he played pretty well, especially for a rookie, how do you explain McCown?
I watched every game he played in college and did not view him as more than a career backup/journeyman entering the draft. Given he is a fellow alum, I hope he proves me wrong, but so far I'm not seeing any evidence I am.
jurb26
Footballguy
How many games did you watch him play last year? I could care less how many you watched in college. I watched him in college as well and think he looked like a far better pro than I expected. I don't get the McCown thing, at all. I assume it because new coach wants his new guy. Love has familiarity with McCown and that seems to the the link. Personally, I think McCown sucks. I'm not sure why they would rather turn the team over to a proven journeyman like him over a rookie who was promising. Perhaps they think he fits their system better. Maybe they just don't like Glennon. Maybe they feel he needs some time to learn from a vet and was thrown into the fire too soon. I don't know. I really don't care, either. There is a chance Glennon still plays this year. We'll see if there really is a competition. I don't think it's a bad thing they brought McCown in per say. Let them compete for the job. TB needed a better backup after losing Freeman anyway. Just handing him the gig is what is crazy to me. Of course Lovie is now backing off that statement but we'll see in camp.
It was pointed out already that what was impressive about Glennon was his poise and pocket awareness more than anything else. He was a very safe QB last year, never forcing anything and taking what the defense gave him. It could be frustrating at times because it felt like he should have taken more chances but he was very protective of the ball. He was accurate on most throws 15 yds or less hit needed work on the deep throws. He also showed far more athleticism than I ever thought he had. I likened him more to a Byron Leftwich coming out of school, big statue-like QB with a long wide up and cannon arm. Well, he moves way better than I expected. His release is the main thing that he could improve IMO. It needs tightened up a bit. It didn't hinder him as much as I thought it would last year, though.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
You've been pretty adamant about how awful he was. What did you expect from a rookie in that situation exactly?
Quez
Footballguy
Any QB in the league would have looked bad starting for the 2013 Bucs. Glennon did pretty good for the situation he was in, and showed enough to prove he can be a starter or very good backup in the league.
I understand he isn't a pedigree or very mobile, but I wouldn't say he is horrible.
Stats are for losers. You have to look at each players individual situation because everyone's situation is unique. Glennon was in a bad situation last year.
Premier
Footballguy
To not be as shaky in the pocket as he is, to not be as indecisive after 10 games, to have the arm to push the ball down the field and to throw the deep out.
He can't make the throws that an elite quarterback can make. That's not going to change just because Doug Martin and the #2 wideout is back.
Can he be a decent, league average QB one day? Probably. But he isn't now and he probably won't be this year either.
Premier
Footballguy
He didn't do pretty good at all. He was awful. There is literally nothing you can counter that with other than "hey he looked ok when I watched him".
Look at his yards per attempt and get back to me. It was worse than EJ Manuel. EJ Manuel.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
I like your new starting QB for the Bucs, Josh McCown. I met him and coach Smith this weekend at an event at RayJay. McCown's Big guy with a Texas drawl. I like what I saw from his last year, of course that was under Trestman. He looks a lot more comfortable in the pocket than Glennon looked last year. I remember times last year when Glennon would look away from Jackson every play, and then attempt to force it over Jackson's head hoping he could somehow make a remarkable grab boxed by the sideline. That head fake wasn't fooling anyone.
As a side note, really impressed with the new coach Smith. Quiet, soft spoken. Magnetic personality and aura of confidence. A 180 from Greg Schiano, who looked like a jarhead marine with glassy eyes at the same event I attended last year. Your defensive coordinator Leslie Frazier is a fiery guy, you can expect him to be the vocal leader on the sidelines. Good coaching hires by Tampa and McCown's an upgrade over Glennon, imo.
As a side note, really impressed with the new coach Smith. Quiet, soft spoken. Magnetic personality and aura of confidence. A 180 from Greg Schiano, who looked like a jarhead marine with glassy eyes at the same event I attended last year. Your defensive coordinator Leslie Frazier is a fiery guy, you can expect him to be the vocal leader on the sidelines. Good coaching hires by Tampa and McCown's an upgrade over Glennon, imo.
Quez
Footballguy
How can you blame a guy for something he had no control over? The offense he was running sucked. The coaches sucked. The oline sucked. His 2nd best passing option was a rookie who was converted from a WR to a TE. His 3rd option was Tiquan Underwood.
For the record, I also see McCown as an upgrade, but I'm not ready to write off Glennon. I think there is a place for him in the league.
For the record, I also see McCown as an upgrade, but I'm not ready to write off Glennon. I think there is a place for him in the league.
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Grahamburn
Footballguy
I personally hope they pass on QB in this draft, land at least two impact weapons on offense, and Glennon decisively beats McCown out in camp. Best case scenario for the future.
jurb26
Footballguy
Glennon's stats from last year;
247/416, 59.4%, 2,608 Yds, 6.27 YPA, 19 TDs, 9 Ints, 40 sacks, 83.9 QBR
Thoughts;
He ranked 21 in QBR, ahead of guys like Tannehill, RG3, Flacco, Schaub and Eli.
He ranked 26 in completion %, ahead of guys like Flacco, Stafford, Eli and Keap.
His TD/Int ratio of 2.11 is pretty good.
His YPA is very low, ranking 37 in the NFL.
He was clearly the best rookie QB last year but it was a pretty awful group so let's look at some other guys from the previous season because that's considered a very strong group.
Luck;
339/627, 54.1%, 4,374 yds, 6.98YPA, 23 TDs, 18 Ints, sacks, 76.5 QBR
Tannehill;
282/484, 58.3%, 3,294 YDS, 6.81 YPA, 12 TDs, 13 Ints, 35 sacks, 76.1 QBR
Foles;
161/265, 60.8%, 1,699 YDS, 6.41 YPA, 6 TDs, 5 Ints, 20, sacks, 79.1 QBR
Wilson;
252/393, 64.1%, 3,118 YDs, 7.93 YPA, 26 TDs, 10 Ints, 33 sacks, 100.0 QBR
Griffin III;
258/393, 65.6%, 3,200 yds, 8.14 YPA, 20 TDs, 5 Ints, 30 sacks, 102.4 QBR
So, we clearly see that Griffin and Wilson are just on another level as far as rookie performance. Outside of them however, Glennon's season is pretty on par or better than the other guys. We don't seem to think any of them had terrible rookie seasons for some reason.
One thing that stands out pretty drastically is the amount of sacks Glennon took. 3 sacks per game is a ton of sacks to take. It leads credence to the fact that his oline was in shambles. It also leads credence that maybe he held the ball too long. It's probably a bit of both. Games I watched he seemed to do a nice job of throwing it away but I didn't watch all the games.
247/416, 59.4%, 2,608 Yds, 6.27 YPA, 19 TDs, 9 Ints, 40 sacks, 83.9 QBR
Thoughts;
He ranked 21 in QBR, ahead of guys like Tannehill, RG3, Flacco, Schaub and Eli.
He ranked 26 in completion %, ahead of guys like Flacco, Stafford, Eli and Keap.
His TD/Int ratio of 2.11 is pretty good.
His YPA is very low, ranking 37 in the NFL.
He was clearly the best rookie QB last year but it was a pretty awful group so let's look at some other guys from the previous season because that's considered a very strong group.
Luck;
339/627, 54.1%, 4,374 yds, 6.98YPA, 23 TDs, 18 Ints, sacks, 76.5 QBR
Tannehill;
282/484, 58.3%, 3,294 YDS, 6.81 YPA, 12 TDs, 13 Ints, 35 sacks, 76.1 QBR
Foles;
161/265, 60.8%, 1,699 YDS, 6.41 YPA, 6 TDs, 5 Ints, 20, sacks, 79.1 QBR
Wilson;
252/393, 64.1%, 3,118 YDs, 7.93 YPA, 26 TDs, 10 Ints, 33 sacks, 100.0 QBR
Griffin III;
258/393, 65.6%, 3,200 yds, 8.14 YPA, 20 TDs, 5 Ints, 30 sacks, 102.4 QBR
So, we clearly see that Griffin and Wilson are just on another level as far as rookie performance. Outside of them however, Glennon's season is pretty on par or better than the other guys. We don't seem to think any of them had terrible rookie seasons for some reason.
One thing that stands out pretty drastically is the amount of sacks Glennon took. 3 sacks per game is a ton of sacks to take. It leads credence to the fact that his oline was in shambles. It also leads credence that maybe he held the ball too long. It's probably a bit of both. Games I watched he seemed to do a nice job of throwing it away but I didn't watch all the games.
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Tau837
Footballguy
What other "safe" QBs are successful NFL QBs? What other "safe" QBs are successful fantasy QBs? Not saying there are none, but I feel like you are overvaluing "safe" QB play. I suspect if you name other "safe" QBs they will either be unimpressive or there will be clear differences in skills/talent.
This seems off base. Per ESPN splits, his accuracy was arguably worst on pass attempts thrown 11-20 yards beyond the LOS. It was 43.6% on those attempts, and he threw 4 TDs vs. 4 interceptions.
Meanwhile, he tied for #7 in PFF's Deep Passing Accuracy Percentage. He threw 7 TDs and just 1 interception on pass attempts that were thrown more than 20 yards beyond the LOS. On all passes within 20 yards of the LOS, he threw 12 TDs and 8 interceptions.
The data suggests that he is accurate on really short throws and relatively accurate on deep throws, but below average within 20 yards of the LOS. As if he struggles making the intermediate throws accurately but can just use his arm to get the ball downfield.
I feel as if the problem is that successful NFL (and fantasy) QBs generally make their living mainly inside 20 yards downfield.
jurb26
Footballguy
Glennon was 4-9 as the starter seeing he didn't play in the first 3 games, Freeman did. Not a whole lot better, but better. It seems pretty obvious you have an agenda against Glennon. Did you watch him play at all last year? The statement was made that his stats were "horrible." That no statistical measure was anything but horrible. I provided some context to the stats and it shows they were clearly not horrible by every measure.Also,at saying Glennon's rookie season is on par with Luck's. Wins matter. Game winning drives matter.If Luck led that Colts team to 4 or 5 wins as a rookie with similar statistics, his rookie season would have been viewed as quite disappointing.
Was Tannihill's rookie season horrible by every statistical measure? His win % wasn't much better than Glennon and he was worse by nearly every other stat. What about Foles, who was worse in just about every stat including win %? Was his season horrible?
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Quez
Footballguy
Glennon faced some pretty solid defenses as well, Carolina 2x, Arizona, Seattle, New Orleans, San Fran were all top defenses. Mia, Buf, & Stl. were ok as well. The bad offenses he faced, Philly, Atl., Det. the team scored +20, not terrible considering all the rookies, bad o-line, and rb injuries.
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Quez
Footballguy
Just off the top of my head I would say he probably looked better than 1/3 of the QBs in the league last season. If you take into account his age, his contract, the system he was running, the coaches, the online, and pass catchers, then I definitely see value in him. I think he has earned the right to at least compete for a starting gig. There are enough snaps in preseason for him to win the job.
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Tau837
Footballguy
jurb26
Footballguy
I don't think he should just get a shot at it, I think it should be his job to lose not McCown's. Unfortunately that isn't going to be the case and I don't think he will get a fair shot at it. Lovie seems to want his guy at QB and that guy is McCown. Maybe McCown is a stop gap for a rookie. Maybe just a buffer to let Glennon develop more. I think Glennon would have to severely outplay McCown for him to end up the starter this year though.
Tau837
Footballguy
This doesn't address the point of the post you quoted. Glennon was 4-9. Scale to 16 games, and that is 5 wins if you round up.Glennon was 4-9 as the starter seeing he didn't play in the first 3 games, Freeman did. Not a whole lot better, but better.Also,
Luck led a team with a new coaching staff and largely new roster to 11 wins as a rookie, and led 7 game winning drives in doing it.
To act like Glennon's rookie season was comparable to Luck's is just wrong.
jurb26
Footballguy
Well yeah. When you cut out most of the post it doesn't address the point of the post. Again, I compared him to several rookies for context to statements being made about his stats being horrible at every level. You want to again dance around that and other questions, of course.This doesn't address the point of the post you quoted. Glennon was 4-9. Scale to 16 games, and that is 5 wins if you round up.Glennon was 4-9 as the starter seeing he didn't play in the first 3 games, Freeman did. Not a whole lot better, but better.Also,
Luck led a team with a new coaching staff and largely new roster to 11 wins as a rookie, and led 7 game winning drives in doing it.
To act like Glennon's rookie season was comparable to Luck's is just wrong.
Debatable, but a case could be made for:
Buffalo
Cleveland
Houston
Jacksonville
Tennessee
Oakland
NYG
Minnesota
Arizona
St Louis
I feel like more rookie QBs do well now than in previous eras. That said, oh so many of them are still painful to watch. I've often felt year two is a good barometer of how a QB will turn out.
Glennon has some fight in him and I'm very curious.
Eli was the worst rookie ever IMO. The Ravens stories are legendary.
5 wins is a poor number but I'm not sure that I expected them to win 5. Some of the above comments make me want to ask "what did you expect?"
Glennon has some fight in him and I'm very curious.
Eli was the worst rookie ever IMO. The Ravens stories are legendary.
5 wins is a poor number but I'm not sure that I expected them to win 5. Some of the above comments make me want to ask "what did you expect?"
BassNBrew
Footballguy
Luck had the benefit of being annoited the starter and all the off season reps that come with that. Luck also beat up on a crappy schedule that first year. Glennon had a very tough schedule last year facing. I believe the Bucs faced teams with 10+ wins in 9 games last year.This doesn't address the point of the post you quoted. Glennon was 4-9. Scale to 16 games, and that is 5 wins if you round up.Glennon was 4-9 as the starter seeing he didn't play in the first 3 games, Freeman did. Not a whole lot better, but better.Also,
Luck led a team with a new coaching staff and largely new roster to 11 wins as a rookie, and led 7 game winning drives in doing it.
To act like Glennon's rookie season was comparable to Luck's is just wrong.
I'm not saying he's better than Luck, just that it's too early to make a final call.
Gargoylez
Footballguy
Interesting. Glennon must of slept with Prem's girl or kicked his dog.
Glennon played better than expected, thats fact. Quit forcing the negativity where it don't belong. Don't like him, fine, don't call a player horrible that is far from it.
Gargoylez
Footballguy
duaneok66
Footballguy
Fair point.This doesn't address the point of the post you quoted. Glennon was 4-9. Scale to 16 games, and that is 5 wins if you round up.Glennon was 4-9 as the starter seeing he didn't play in the first 3 games, Freeman did. Not a whole lot better, but better.Also,
Luck led a team with a new coaching staff and largely new roster to 11 wins as a rookie, and led 7 game winning drives in doing it.
To act like Glennon's rookie season was comparable to Luck's is just wrong.
Still, Glennon didn't get the same number of reps as Luck because he was forced into starting role midseason.
Is Glennon on par QB with Luck? Of course not, Glennon was a mid round pick, and Luck was drafted at the top. Still, I think that Glennon shows promise - we will see if he amounts to anything.
Premier
Footballguy
My God.
I'm not that "you have to watch all the games" guy but I don't know how somebody could watch this guy in college and his first year in the NFL and come away with anything other than he's a career backup. You don't take 40 sacks in 11 games and have a 6.26 YPA and expect to have a bright future.
And for all those killing his Oline...it wasn't THAT bad. Ravens fans seem to be positively ecstatic about getting Zuttah, Penn was average at LT and Dotson was above average at RT. Joseph was a dumpster fire at RG, for sure, but the entire line was ok'ish.
He took too many sacks and yeah his YPA wasn't good. However, he didn't have a slot WR and his TE wasn't that good, and he was working with backup RBs, so he didn't have a lot of short-to-intermediate outlets. Again, I'm not saying he's elite, just that it's too early to write him off.
Quez
Footballguy
I'm not sure if it was poster earlier in here, but there is a good FBG article from Feb. About Glennon.
http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/article.php?article=MikeGlennonInDepth
http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/article.php?article=MikeGlennonInDepth
Premier
Footballguy
I don't have time to look it up right now, but bucsnation.com had weekly analysis of every throw Glennon made. Usually the Wednesday of each week they would post a breakdown of every drop back he had. If you want to seek them out, they're good reading and will definitely give you a far more comprehensive breakdown of what he did all year than what you'll ever find here.
jurb26
Footballguy
That's good stuff.
jurb26
Footballguy
That and his oline ranked 24th in the NFL. Not putrid, but certainly well bellow average. I only watched a few games of his last year, St. L being 1 of those games. St. L man handled the TB oline and Quinn was unblock-able the entire game. I think Quinn alone had 4 sacks and the team 7. Perhaps my take on the oline is a bit skewed from that game as it's one of the few I watch in entirety. I definitely didn't come away from that game thinking Glennon was the problem.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Your take is spot on. It's the reason 4/5th's of the line has been or will be replaced.
Tau837
Footballguy
There are many good points in the article, but IMO the author had a preconceived opinion on Glennon and wrote the article to support that opinion. This led the author to overstate some positives in order to support the viewpoint the writer had going into the article.
For example, it says the following:
There are examples of plays where these things are true, but his overall body of work does not support these statements, and, in fact, refutes them.
The article also says:
This feels like a red herring. PFF has a metric called QB Accuracy Percentage, which accounts for "dropped passes, throw aways, spiked balls, batted passes, and passes where the quarterback was hit while they threw the ball - factors that hurt the quarterback's completion percentage but don't help show how accurate they are." Glennon ranked #28 in the league in this metric last season among qualifiers who took at least 25% of their teams' dropbacks.
Also, I don't think it has been noted that Glennon was rated as the #34 overall QB by PFF, and tied for #30 as a passer (i.e., ignoring running and penalties). Glennon had a negative rating in all three categories (passing, running, penalties). PFF's ratings are certainly not perfect, but it is an objective source that goes beyond comparing statistics.
Tau837
Footballguy
I'm sure the OL deserves plenty of the blame. And potentially the backs and TEs, given their injuries... I'm not familiar enough with them to know how good they are as pass blockers.
Some relevant facts on this from PFF, all among 41 qualifiers who took at least 25% of their teams' dropbacks:
- When he was sacked, the average time from the snap to when Glennon was sacked was 4.22 seconds, which tied for #14 (i.e., only 13 QBs had more time on average before being sacked; it took less time on average to sack 25 QBs)
- When he attempted a pass, the average time from the snap to when Glennon attempted the pass was 2.81 seconds, which was #6 (i.e., only 5 QBs took more time on average)
- When he scrambled, the average time from the snap to when Glennon scrambled past the LOS was 5.33 seconds, which was #5 (i.e., only 4 QBs took more time on average)
I'm sure these statistics don't tell the whole story, but they don't make it seem like Glennon's teammates were giving him no time.
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Grahamburn
Footballguy
It's a combination of poor offensive line play, lack of weapons in the passing game, lack of weapons in the running game, and breaking in a rookie QB who probably shouldn't have been starting yet. I've said all along that I was impressed considering the situation. Maybe I have low expectations?
identikit
Footballguy
Interesting that in this draft rumor mill article, Glennon isn't even mentioned:
http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftrumormill.php#bucs0417
http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftrumormill.php#bucs0417
Grahamburn
Footballguy
If they take a QB at 7, which would be a mistake, then Glennon definitely needs to be traded. Sad if they don't give him a real shot.
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