Phenoms going under

[joffer 12,400]

While working as a bartender in 2008 he contributed $250 to the Democratic Party to elect President Obama.

http://individual-contributors.findthebest.com/d/c/Michael-Zangrilli

lol

[humpback 1,141]

Read and respected Unlucky for over a decade. I can certainly understand why folks who are owed loot are upset and it certainly sounds like Unlucky made some poor decisions, but the guy has always been nothing but good people on FBG.

I agree with Hooper - I'll wait to hear more details but I'm not ready to throw Unlucky overboard until we know more.

[BassNBrew 11,149]

Read and respected Unlucky for over a decade. I can certainly understand why folks who are owed loot are upset and it certainly sounds like Unlucky made some poor decisions, but the guy has always been nothing but good people on FBG.

I agree with Hooper - I'll wait to hear more details but I'm not ready to throw Unlucky overboard until we know more.

Dang…you Phenom owners just got Gunz'd.

[BassNBrew 11,149]

While working as a bartender in 2008 he contributed $250 to the Democratic Party to elect President Obama.

http://individual-contributors.findthebest.com/d/c/Michael-Zangrilli

Knew this would be Obama's fault.

[Bobcat10 1,979]

Guy is probably a con. Chalk it up to life happens and know what goes around usually comes back around. If you didn't produce the person don't trust them with your money. If you did make them verify every step of the way.

so basically only trust my son, but keep a close eye on him, got it.

[cstu 6,086]

Mike just sent an email to a friend of mine, informing him Mike now has a "legal team" and he is reviewing his options and "solutions" with them...

Kind of an ominous sign… Not that anyone expected to see much if any, but this seems to put the proverbial nail in the coffin

Bet the email traces back to Cuba.

[humpback 1,141]

Your posts make it sound like you do disagree. Can you come up with any plausible scenario where he didn't completely screw over hundreds of people? If you want to argue "it may only be really, really bad instead of the really, really, really bad that some are speculating", knock yourself out. If you want to say that this might just be a big misunderstanding, sorry, but you've got your head firmly planted in the sand.

Disagree with what?

Did he screw people out of money? Sounds to me like that's not debatable. Mike ####ed up and other people are going to pay the price.

Did he pocket that money? I doubt it, but that's my opinion of the guy based on history.

Disagree that we need to wait to see what happened before he can be criticized. Like I said, if he actually pocketed the money that would only make this screw job that much worse.

[Bobcat10 1,979]

Why would "he" keep sending emails if this was a true con?

[squistion 12,586]

Why would "he" keep sending emails if this was a true con?

To buy himself time.

[timschochet 34,167]

Read and respected Unlucky for over a decade. I can certainly understand why folks who are owed loot are upset and it certainly sounds like Unlucky made some poor decisions, but the guy has always been nothing but good people on FBG.

I agree with Hooper - I'll wait to hear more details but I'm not ready to throw Unlucky overboard until we know more.

tommy, based on his OWN ADMISSION he took prize money and used it for something else, and now he can't pay it back. Ultimately what else is there to know about this?

[SacramentoBob 4,898]

While working as a bartender in 2008 he contributed $250 to the Democratic Party to elect President Obama.

http://individual-contributors.findthebest.com/d/c/Michael-Zangrilli

This should come as zero surprise to most folks.

[Bobcat10 1,979]

Why would "he" keep sending emails if this was a true con?

To buy himself time.

I'd wait til I was on the beach south of the equator before sending email número uno.

[AZhardballz 2]

Why would "he" keep sending emails if this was a true con?

To buy himself time.

I'd wait til I was on the beach south of the equator before sending email número uno.

Ya best way to "buy" time would have been to NEVER send out anything and just leave the country. Nobody would know anything till a couple weeks after the season was over and were wondering where their prize money was. Makes me think this wasn't a planned con-job.

[squistion 12,586]

While working as a bartender in 2008 he contributed $250 to the Democratic Party to elect President Obama.

http://individual-contributors.findthebest.com/d/c/Michael-Zangrilli

This should come as zero surprise to most folks.

Indeed. Talk about a smoking gun!

[tommyGunZ 4,700]

Read and respected Unlucky for over a decade. I can certainly understand why folks who are owed loot are upset and it certainly sounds like Unlucky made some poor decisions, but the guy has always been nothing but good people on FBG.

I agree with Hooper - I'll wait to hear more details but I'm not ready to throw Unlucky overboard until we know more.

tommy, based on his OWN ADMISSION he took prize money and used it for something else, and now he can't pay it back. Ultimately what else is there to know about this?

The circumstances? If he was taking out 50k markers at the Bellagio and doing lines off of Samantha Saint's ### at Spearmint, I'll be first in line to issue a curb stomp. If his daughter has cancer and he spent 50k of the prize money for treatments, I won't be quite as angry.

[timschochet 34,167]

Question for legal types: if you set up a gaming company that doles out prizes, are you legally allowed to commingle funds you receive? Are there laws about this?

[timschochet 34,167]

Read and respected Unlucky for over a decade. I can certainly understand why folks who are owed loot are upset and it certainly sounds like Unlucky made some poor decisions, but the guy has always been nothing but good people on FBG.

I agree with Hooper - I'll wait to hear more details but I'm not ready to throw Unlucky overboard until we know more.

tommy, based on his OWN ADMISSION he took prize money and used it for something else, and now he can't pay it back. Ultimately what else is there to know about this?

The circumstances? If he was taking out 50k markers at the Bellagio and doing lines off of Samantha Saint's ### at Spearmint, I'll be first in line to issue a curb stomp. If his daughter has cancer and he spent 50k of the prize money for treatments, I won't be quite as angry.

Umm, but I think most people would. Really the circumstances of how he spends the money he steals shouldn't be relevant.

[17seconds 556]

While working as a bartender in 2008 he contributed $250 to the Democratic Party to elect President Obama.

http://individual-contributors.findthebest.com/d/c/Michael-Zangrilli

This should come as zero surprise to most folks.

Indeed. Talk about a smoking gun!

I could have told you that and my notebook sucks. He was a fairly active liberal in the political threads.

[Slider 617]

Guy is probably a con. Chalk it up to life happens and know what goes around usually comes back around. If you didn't produce the person don't trust them with your money. If you did make them verify every step of the way.

so basically only trust my son, but keep a close eye on him, got it.

With money that is correct.

[17seconds 556]

Why would "he" keep sending emails if this was a true con?

To buy himself time.

Guess that backfired. He has people actively pursuing him now.

[Davewhit 4]

Damn, that Alshon Jeffery TD just put me in the finals and added to my points lead in one of my gamma leagues. This sucks..I was hoping I would lose!

[Ghost Rider 6,311]

Not me. The prideful part of me still wants to win, and while I might still win two of my five phenoms leagues and never seen a dime of the winnings, I'll still be thrilled with winning, even if some of the luster has been taken away.

[Davewhit 4]

Well, maybe guaranteed money gives me more ammo of getting a successful credit card chargeback now for all my entry fees. I suggest everyone doing that by the way. My AMEX has already temporarily credited my account for what I paid while they try and reach out to Mike. Took a 5 minute phone call

[BassNBrew 11,149]

Read and respected Unlucky for over a decade. I can certainly understand why folks who are owed loot are upset and it certainly sounds like Unlucky made some poor decisions, but the guy has always been nothing but good people on FBG.

I agree with Hooper - I'll wait to hear more details but I'm not ready to throw Unlucky overboard until we know more.

tommy, based on his OWN ADMISSION he took prize money and used it for something else, and now he can't pay it back. Ultimately what else is there to know about this?

The circumstances? If he was taking out 50k markers at the Bellagio and doing lines off of Samantha Saint's ### at Spearmint, I'll be first in line to issue a curb stomp. If his daughter has cancer and he spent 50k of the prize money for treatments, I won't be quite as angry.

That's what the WCOFF guy claimed when he ripped off people. Guess you're waving his flag too.

[Walking Boot 8,296]

While working as a bartender in 2008 he contributed $250 to the Democratic Party to elect President Obama.

http://individual-contributors.findthebest.com/d/c/Michael-Zangrilli

This should come as zero surprise to most folks.

Indeed. Talk about a smoking gun!

I could have told you that and my notebook sucks. He was a fairly active liberal in the political threads.

Well how's all that hopey changey stuff working out for y'all now?

[TheWalk84 7]

For those wondering if what Mike did was illegal or just unethical/immoral:

Embezzlement is the act of dishonestly withholding assets for the purpose ofconversion (theft) of such assets by one or more individuals to whom such assets have been entrusted, to be held and/or used for other purposes

Wire Fraud is any fraudulent scheme to intentionally deprive another of property or honest services via mail or wire communication

What Mike did is the very definition of embezzlement and wire fraud, which are felonies in the state of Utah, punishable by up 20 years in prison and full restitution of funds..

To put this further in perspective a Utah woman was just indicted by a grand jury on Embezzlement and wire fraud charges in June of this year. She "used" 1.3 million dollars of client "protected" funds. So there is recent precedence.. If investigations yield he spent ANY of that money gambling or to purchase any sort of personal item, that is felony wire fraud, every time is one count.

At the very least the class action will help the criminal case against mike… In the end, justice might be the only thing we get, and for most of us, that is O.K.

[JohnnyU 4,065]

Maybe this crap will stop once someone does some serious time in a 6 by 8 cell with some guy named Bubba.

[cstu 6,086]

Damn, that Alshon Jeffery TD just put me in the finals and added to my points lead in one of my gamma leagues. This sucks..I was hoping I would lose!

Congratulatio...

[cstu 6,086]

You guys in any Masters leagues? They appear to be doing the same thing Phenoms was (minus the theft so far).

[Guest General Tso]

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:LdMybAuziHYJ:https://www.phenomsff.com/prizes/prizes.php&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

The reason you need a Google cache to read it is that he changed his website today to remove the statement about safekeeping funds.

Looks like he did same with Twitter. (Deactivated the account & deleted all tweets)

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:wIbWc3oLPdoJ:https://twitter.com/unluckyz+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

When you're deleting off Twitter/Facebook accounts, you can't really expect people to believe their will be an open line of communication via email.

Huge blow to the FBG community. Guy had gained as much trust as any commissioner here.

I just spent the last two hours reading through this entire topic. First of all - I feel terrible for anyone in here who has lost money. It sucks, plain and simple.

Read some of the posts in his deleted Twitter account (link above). In my opinion it tells you everything you need to know. Gamblers are usually lousy people to do business with.

Edited December 16, 2014 by General Tso

[IheartGuinness 450]

Could someone please explain what exactly happened? I'm not familiar with this site. Basically it had operated for years, shuts down one day, and the guy running it is nowhere to be found?

[BassNBrew 11,149]

Could someone please explain what exactly happened? I'm not familiar with this site. Basically it had operated for years, shuts down one day, and the guy running it is nowhere to be found?

https://www.phenomsff.com

[Dragon1952 70]

Gave some stranger on the interweb gambling money- got ripped off. What are the odds?

Totally moronic statement. It's no different than buying off of Ebay or the classifieds on thousands of different forums or a million other places online. You go by credibility, reputation, feedback,etc and if it all appears good it usually is. This site had all of that and operated for 10 yrs. in good standing. And since your statement indicates that you obviously don't have a clue about any of the history of the site or person we're talking about I would suggest not making yourself look any more asinine than you already have.

[thetman 8]

You guys in any Masters leagues? They appear to be doing the same thing Phenoms was (minus the theft so far).

masters payouts are terrible

[TheWalk84 7]

You guys in any Masters leagues? They appear to be doing the same thing Phenoms was (minus the theft so far).

masters payouts are terrible

Terrible meaning they don't/won't/take a long time to pay?

Or terrible in % kept/commish fee/only top 2 paid?

Just curious, am desperately looking for something like Mike's site to join……..

[thetman 8]

You guys in any Masters leagues? They appear to be doing the same thing Phenoms was (minus the theft so far).

masters payouts are terrible

Terrible meaning they don't/won't/take a long time to pay?

Or terrible in % kept/commish fee/only top 2 paid?

Just curious, am desperately looking for something like Mike's site to join..

they barely pay 50% back on the cheaper leagues

[thetman 8]

Gave some stranger on the interweb gambling money- got ripped off. What are the odds?

Totally moronic statement. It's no different than buying off of Ebay or the classifieds on thousands of different forums or a million other places online. You go by credibility, reputation, feedback,etc and if it all appears good it usually is. This site had all of that and operated for 10 yrs. in good standing. And since your statement indicates that you obviously don't have a clue about any of the history of the site or person we're talking about I would suggest not making yourself look any more asinine than you already have.

I couldn't agree more

[fuzzy 10]

You guys in any Masters leagues? They appear to be doing the same thing Phenoms was (minus the theft so far).

masters payouts are terrible

Terrible meaning they don't/won't/take a long time to pay?

Or terrible in % kept/commish fee/only top 2 paid?

Just curious, am desperately looking for something like Mike's site to join……..

I posted my opinions earlier in this thread as a fantasy football site owner and developer. My intention is not to advertise my site but since you are looking for an alternative check my signature line. There are playoff leagues available.

[BRONG 198]

Read and respected Unlucky for over a decade. I can certainly understand why folks who are owed loot are upset and it certainly sounds like Unlucky made some poor decisions, but the guy has always been nothing but good people on FBG.

I agree with Hooper - I'll wait to hear more details but I'm not ready to throw Unlucky overboard until we know more.

tommy, based on his OWN ADMISSION he took prize money and used it for something else, and now he can't pay it back. Ultimately what else is there to know about this?

The circumstances? If he was taking out 50k markers at the Bellagio and doing lines off of Samantha Saint's ### at Spearmint, I'll be first in line to issue a curb stomp. If his daughter has cancer and he spent 50k of the prize money for treatments, I won't be quite as angry.

I like where your heart's at GB but come on, the writing's on the wall here. The size of this is large. Gambling bartender (and whatever else he might be into) all of a sudden sinks the ship. Nobody's salvaging a dime here, although I hope I'm wrong. When does stuff like this turn out?

I understand wanting to give him the benefit of the doubt, but he's kind of lost that chance with how it was handled, no? Total surprise. Look at the timing. And there is no way he didn't see it coming. Hello??? That speaks volumes, imo. He waited to drop the bomb at an opportune time. Terrible sign. Um, that, and all the money that's gone.

[UFFLCommish 19]

I posted in the Looking for Leagues Forum. It's a tough time to trust someone but if you're looking to join a new dynasty league next season, check out the post. You'll see why that would never happen in any of my leagues. And the payouts have always been 95 to 100%. Not looking to make any money.

[jon_mx 8,957]

Read and respected Unlucky for over a decade. I can certainly understand why folks who are owed loot are upset and it certainly sounds like Unlucky made some poor decisions, but the guy has always been nothing but good people on FBG.

I agree with Hooper - I'll wait to hear more details but I'm not ready to throw Unlucky overboard until we know more.

tommy, based on his OWN ADMISSION he took prize money and used it for something else, and now he can't pay it back. Ultimately what else is there to know about this?

The circumstances? If he was taking out 50k markers at the Bellagio and doing lines off of Samantha Saint's ### at Spearmint, I'll be first in line to issue a curb stomp. If his daughter has cancer and he spent 50k of the prize money for treatments, I won't be quite as angry.

I like where your heart's at GB but come on, the writing's on the wall here. The size of this is large. Gambling bartender (and whatever else he might be into) all of a sudden sinks the ship. Nobody's salvaging a dime here, although I hope I'm wrong. When does stuff like this turn out?

I understand wanting to give him the benefit of the doubt, but he's kind of lost that chance with how it was handled, no? Total surprise. Look at the timing. And there is no way he didn't see it coming. Hello??? That speaks volumes, imo. He waited to drop the bomb at an opportune time. Terrible sign. Um, that, and all the money that's gone.

" 50k markers at the Bellagio and doing lines off of Samantha Saint's ### at Spearmint"

I dunno. I might give him a pass for that.

[Raiderfan32904 470]

You guys in any Masters leagues? They appear to be doing the same thing Phenoms was (minus the theft so far).

masters payouts are terrible

Terrible meaning they don't/won't/take a long time to pay?

Or terrible in % kept/commish fee/only top 2 paid?

Just curious, am desperately looking for something like Mike's site to join……..

So soon after getting scammed? I want to join a new league eventually too, but the wound is still fresh to be thinking about jumping to a new site. My trust affinity is close to zero.

[bleachercreacher 247]

Remind me never to rip off you guys. Bunch of detectives in here, damn.

You aren't kidding. 24 hours and his dad's phone number was posted. Seriously though, I don't think contacting his dad is cool.

I agree, but I'm not losing thousands of dollars either.

No one should be angry with his dad but perhaps if he knows his son might be doing some serious prison time he could put pressure on him to pay back the money.

I was in 4 leagues, and am now in the finals of a $100 league. I'm pissed to say the least. However, I don't see how pestering his dad is going to lead to anything. He's going to give his dad the website line, and his dad is more likely to believe it. To me it's not worth adding the stress to an old man that did nothing. Having said that, do whatever you need to do thru the attorney general and police.

[BassNBrew 11,149]

Remind me never to rip off you guys. Bunch of detectives in here, damn.

You aren't kidding. 24 hours and his dad's phone number was posted. Seriously though, I don't think contacting his dad is cool.

I agree, but I'm not losing thousands of dollars either.

No one should be angry with his dad but perhaps if he knows his son might be doing some serious prison time he could put pressure on him to pay back the money.

I was in 4 leagues, and am now in the finals of a $100 league. I'm pissed to say the least. However, I don't see how pestering his dad is going to lead to anything. He's going to give his dad the website line, and his dad is more likely to believe it. To me it's not worth adding the stress to an old man that did nothing. Having said that, do whatever you need to do thru the attorney general and police.

Maybe I was out of line, but when a business partner of mine stole money from a trust account and business account, I found his mom's and got on the phone with her. I was seeking repayment from her, just some retribution. He wasn't at a 50k marker and Samantha Saint ### level, but he took it for hoes and blow. His mom and dad were high profile people in the community so I'm sure it was a huge embarrassment to them. If nothing else, maybe I protected their assets from him.

[ROCKET 195]

For those wondering if what Mike did was illegal or just unethical/immoral:

Embezzlement is the act of dishonestly withholding assets for the purpose ofconversion (theft) of such assets by one or more individuals to whom such assets have been entrusted, to be held and/or used for other purposes

Wire Fraud is any fraudulent scheme to intentionally deprive another of property or honest services via mail or wire communication

What Mike did is the very definition of embezzlement and wire fraud, which are felonies in the state of Utah, punishable by up 20 years in prison and full restitution of funds..

To put this further in perspective a Utah woman was just indicted by a grand jury on Embezzlement and wire fraud charges in June of this year. She "used" 1.3 million dollars of client "protected" funds. So there is recent precedence.. If investigations yield he spent ANY of that money gambling or to purchase any sort of personal item, that is felony wire fraud, every time is one count.

At the very least the class action will help the criminal case against mike… In the end, justice might be the only thing we get, and for most of us, that is O.K.

Not sure if I should even bother commenting on this whole debacle as I guess some of my previous posts must of ruffled a mods feathers and were deleted. I just don't want people to get a false sense of hope for justice ever being served on Mike. It won't happen. He will claim that his business model failed and file for bankruptcy protection.

The reality is most likely that he spent countless thousands of dollars on some vice or vices or an unrealistic lifestyle and that was the downfall of the business. He will file for bankruptcy protection and the secured creditors such as banks and Uncle Sam will be first in line to grab any assets that he has left.

Most likely the few assets that he has won't even pay the secured creditors. He won't go to jail as they won't be able to prove fraud.

I have a judgement for 75K in a bankrupcy case against a local businessman in my own town.I will never see a dime from it. He was a crook, plain and simple. The guy doesn't dare show his face in public as there are tons of people that he screwed who would

most likely beat him silly if they saw him. It sucks but that is the system we have. Once again sorry to those who were impacted.

[thetman 8]

My biggest regret is recommending the site to a few people. I feel responsible, but I really shouldn't.

[BobbyLayne 10,874]

Remind me never to rip off you guys. Bunch of detectives in here, damn.

You aren't kidding. 24 hours and his dad's phone number was posted. Seriously though, I don't think contacting his dad is cool.

I agree, but I'm not losing thousands of dollars either.

No one should be angry with his dad but perhaps if he knows his son might be doing some serious prison time he could put pressure on him to pay back the money.

I was in 4 leagues, and am now in the finals of a $100 league. I'm pissed to say the least. However, I don't see how pestering his dad is going to lead to anything. He's going to give his dad the website line, and his dad is more likely to believe it. To me it's not worth adding the stress to an old man that did nothing. Having said that, do whatever you need to do thru the attorney general and police.

Maybe I was out of line, but when a business partner of mine stole money from a trust account and business account, I found his mom's and got on the phone with her. I was seeking repayment from her, just some retribution. He wasn't at a 50k marker and Samantha Saint ### level, but he took it for hoes and blow. His mom and dad were high profile people in the community so I'm sure it was a huge embarrassment to them. If nothing else, maybe I protected their assets from him.

Which was pretty much all you could do in that scenario. One of my peers lost over $100K to a business partner who 1) setup a business account for which he was the sole signatory and account holder, then 2) siphoned off funds through a series of transfers and deposits. You and I might call that fraud. Cyrus Vance (NYC DA) called that a private affair between business partners, for which the government has no vested interest to intervene.

N/A to the Phenoms LLC situation as the 750 leagues / 9,000 customers were not partners. But instructive that our layman instincts don't always match the rule of law.

[[icon] 9,811]

Foreshadowing in the TimLeeg thread?

Just taking a look in the rear-view mirror. How's it going back there, suckers?

[RUSF18 3,847]

Remind me never to rip off you guys. Bunch of detectives in here, damn.

You aren't kidding. 24 hours and his dad's phone number was posted. Seriously though, I don't think contacting his dad is cool.

I agree, but I'm not losing thousands of dollars either.

No one should be angry with his dad but perhaps if he knows his son might be doing some serious prison time he could put pressure on him to pay back the money.

I was in 4 leagues, and am now in the finals of a $100 league. I'm pissed to say the least. However, I don't see how pestering his dad is going to lead to anything. He's going to give his dad the website line, and his dad is more likely to believe it. To me it's not worth adding the stress to an old man that did nothing. Having said that, do whatever you need to do thru the attorney general and police.

Maybe I was out of line, but when a business partner of mine stole money from a trust account and business account, I found his mom's and got on the phone with her. I was seeking repayment from her, just some retribution. He wasn't at a 50k marker and Samantha Saint ### level, but he took it for hoes and blow. His mom and dad were high profile people in the community so I'm sure it was a huge embarrassment to them. If nothing else, maybe I protected their assets from him.

Good point.

[Mister Martie 201]

Wait, this guy was charging 10% to basically just hold money in trust and then pay it out? Amazing.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Mister Martie