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QB Deshaun Watson, HOU


Faust

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Just now, Mr. Peterson said:

I essentially just traded Chase Edmunds for him (before the Connor signing).  I have plenty of RB’s but basically only Wilson at QB.  Figured I can ride Wilson while Watson is out. And I do think he’ll be out a year.  But hopefully by then the Texans won’t be such a mess.  

You STOLE him, congrats. (and I like Edmunds) 

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2 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

How is this kind of stuff even possible?

Some people panic - personally I did in the case of Tyreke Hill (although in hindsight the deal turned out ok since I got Diggs back in the deal).

In this case Watson is almost surely going to miss most of 2021 - unless he caves and settles these litigations quickly while also a avoiding any criminal charges - and one is going to have to find a replacement QB anyway.
 

In start 1QB leagues it’s really not difficult to find a productive QB, so if you’re risk adverse turning Watson into a potential starting RB isn’t terrible. I’m not advocating for that particular deal but I can understand the line of reasoning.

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Texans have no 1 or 2 this year. With this debacle, they’re gonna be awful.

If Watson is out this year, they’re looking at 1.1 favorites for next year. Hopefully they didn’t already trade that one too. I suspect there are a few highly rated qbs including the UNC kid. 

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1 hour ago, IHEARTFF said:

Texans have no 1 or 2 this year. With this debacle, they’re gonna be awful.

If Watson is out this year, they’re looking at 1.1 favorites for next year. Hopefully they didn’t already trade that one too. I suspect there are a few highly rated qbs including the UNC kid. 

As a now Watson dynasty owner that’s kind of what I’m hoping for.  That way the Texans will trade him and he’ll get away from that franchise.  

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4 hours ago, IHEARTFF said:

Texans have no 1 or 2 this year. With this debacle, they’re gonna be awful.

If Watson is out this year, they’re looking at 1.1 favorites for next year. Hopefully they didn’t already trade that one too. I suspect there are a few highly rated qbs including the UNC kid. 

If Watson misses the whole season, the Texans could flirt with 0-17. They are that bad. 

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5 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

If Watson misses the whole season, the Texans could flirt with 0-17. They are that bad. 

It’s Tyrod Taylor throwing to Cooks and nobodies, with Johnson, Ingram and Lindsey in the backfield with one of the league’s worst defenses - and not many picks to fill holes. Seems like if not 0-17 definitely true contenders to start off next years draft.

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4 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

It’s Tyrod Taylor throwing to Cooks and nobodies, with Johnson, Ingram and Lindsey in the backfield with one of the league’s worst defenses - and not many picks to fill holes. Seems like if not 0-17 definitely true contenders to start off next years draft.

Yep and Tyrod is the king of the checkdown so I am not sure how well he will be be able to use Cooks at this point in his career. 

Edited by Ilov80s
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45 minutes ago, osubuckeyeman said:

No evidence at this point for criminal. I can't see there being evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, maybe there is but as of today there is none.

Witness testimony is evidence.

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54 minutes ago, osubuckeyeman said:

No evidence at this point for criminal. I can't see there being evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, maybe there is but as of today there is none.

I'd recommend reading up on the situation a bit more.  I'm here in Houston and it's not looking good.  

Edited by Major
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11 hours ago, ffmail4me said:

So DJ and Lindsay could be sneaky buy lows? ;) 

Perhaps but they could cannibalize each other and I don't see many TD opportunities here. I am probably just avoiding the team.

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53 minutes ago, osubuckeyeman said:

It's circumstantial. You will need to be a pretty aggressive prosecutor to file only on circumstantial evidence. Maybe they do. I'm not in the least worried about Watson's football career if this turns out to be just civil cases. He needs to settle whether guilty or innocent unless his attorney sees criminal charges being filed. It (settling) has to happen soon or Watson will be pushing all his chips in the middle of the table and taking the cases to civil court. I'm not sure what he has to gain by doing that. The burden of proof is so much lower in civil. The 2021 season is pretty much done in my opinion. I can not see how this ends and he plays in 2021. The rest of his career though is what he needs to be thinking about. I think his reputation from here on out is already in the "creeper" status no matter what happens.

Eyewitness testimony (even a “victim’s”) and those texts are not circumstantial evidence- that’s direct evidence.

Im not saying he’s done anything criminal, at this point, but there’s surely some evidence. It will be up to the prosecutors to see if they think they can go to trial. I’m not anticipating criminal charges but the specter is still out there.

If he doesn’t settle I think Watson misses most of this season on the exempt list. I’m just guessing of course.

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Right, don't confuse "direct" and "circumstantial" as being a measure of the strength of the evidence. Either can be stronger or weaker than the other depending on the circumstances. 

There seems to be a fair amount of evidence of both types collectively. But I don't know how difficult it would be to get it all brought into any single criminal trial, or how that might differ from including it in civil trials. Articles have mentioned the civils could be combined due to pattern of behavior, and the similar wording used in the filings would  enable that.

I don't know if it's tougher to get the other incidents admissible in a criminal trial, or not, though. Plus it has the higher burden of proof required for conviction.

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On 4/15/2021 at 7:11 AM, Faust said:

Buzbee had filed three lawsuits against Watson by then, and he told Hardin he had another four ready to go, he said. Buzbee had tried to settle weeks earlier, he told Hardin, but had been rebuffed by the quarterback’s management at the firm Athletes First, whom Buzbee characterized to Hardin, he said, as “arrogant, dismissive jackasses.”

These are the guys that represent Jalen Ramsey, aren't they?

Puff piece here.

https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/2020-12-02/nfl-agent-david-mulugheta

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The Athletic's Aaron Reiss reports attorneys representing Deshaun Watson have accused Watson's alleged victims of "lying about their trauma" and the number of massage sessions they had with the quarterback. 

Watson's legal defense has come into focus over the past week, and it's centered on casting doubts about the validity of the (many) accusations of sexual misconduct against Watson. The legal team charges that eight of Watson's accusers "bragged about, praised, or were excited" about providing massage services to Watson, and that five accusers have told others that "they wanted to get money" from Watson. Some of the accusers, according to Watson's lawyers, weren't truthful about how many massage sessions they had with him. The QB's attorneys claim seven of the women who have brought accusations against Watson "willingly worked or offered to work" with Watson after alleged incidents of sexual assault. Watson's legal issues could last into the summer and cost him some or all of the 2021 season. 

SOURCE: Aaron Reiss on Twitter 

Apr 19, 2021, 11:26 AM ET

 

 

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PFT had been talking about if Watson's side should want them consolidated. Though, unless I'm mixing up sites, I was remembering also seeing them say the descriptions in the suits were similarly worded no doubt to show pattern of behavior, but I guess maybe that doesn't mean consolidating?   Anyway, here was one of the PFT bits:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/03/19/four-more-assault-lawsuits-are-filed-against-deshaun-watson/

Quote

Watson is represented by Houston attorney Rusty Hardin. If Hardin believes Watson did nothing wrong (and Watson has denied all wrongdoing), Hardin’s first move should be to attempt to have all of the cases consolidated into one piece of litigation. If all cases are tried at once, Buzbee’s role in soliciting clients and compiling the claims likely becomes an issue, either in open court or in the jury room, or both. Also, if Hardin can show that only one of the plaintiffs is not telling the truth, that will undermine all of the claims.

 

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2 minutes ago, osubuckeyeman said:

Watson is going to take this to trial. He is all in.  "Wow" I don't see how this gets settled outside of a trial now. He basically is stating all the accusations are false. This is about to get uglier than it already has been.  All right then. Let's get to court and see ALL the evidence and let a trial decide this.  I mean it could still settle but really it looks like Watson wants the trial.

It might get them all to settle. Who knows

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13 hours ago, osubuckeyeman said:

Watson is going to take this to trial. He is all in.  "Wow" I don't see how this gets settled outside of a trial now. He basically is stating all the accusations are false. This is about to get uglier than it already has been.  All right then. Let's get to court and see ALL the evidence and let a trial decide this.  I mean it could still settle but really it looks like Watson wants the trial.

That could be more than 2 years from now.

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33 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

....and you never know what a jury will do.  If he had half a brain he would settle this and move on with his life.

unless he really is innocent of ever forcing anything on a woman and wants to fight for his innocence. That IS still a possibility here you know. Not saying it seems likely, but it IS a possibility. 

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36 minutes ago, ffmail4me said:

unless he really is innocent of ever forcing anything on a woman and wants to fight for his innocence. That IS still a possibility here you know. Not saying it seems likely, but it IS a possibility. 

Sure it is a possibility, but like I said, you never know what a jury will do.  He could play that card and spend 10 years in prison if it goes to a criminal trial.  If he sees an opening to make this disappear, all I'm saying is that he should consider it.  Yes, it would still follow him and he can forget about endorsements, but he would be a free man that can still play in the NFL.  Endorsements are probably gone whether he goes to trial or not.

 

ETA:  Changed to include if it goes to a criminal trial that long prison time is a possibility.

Edited by JohnnyU
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4 minutes ago, ffmail4me said:

unless he really is innocent of ever forcing anything on a woman and wants to fight for his innocence. That IS still a possibility here you know. Not saying it seems likely, but it IS a possibility. 

I think he really believes he did nothing wrong.  Whether or not they, and a jury, feel that way is the crux.

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14 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Sure it is a possibility, but like I said, you never know what a jury will do.  He could play that card and spend 10 years in prison. 

These are civil cases, he cannot receive that sentence.

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3 minutes ago, tangfoot said:

These are civil cases, he cannot receive that sentence.

Exactly, unless there are new charges that he raped lots of women (I don't believe that's the case unless I've missed something) there is NO WAY he's spending 10 years in prison. I have my doubts he'll spend 10 minutes in prison. 

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12 minutes ago, ffmail4me said:

Exactly, unless there are new charges that he raped lots of women (I don't believe that's the case unless I've missed something) there is NO WAY he's spending 10 years in prison. I have my doubts he'll spend 10 minutes in prison. 

I was referring to if it turns into a criminal trial.  

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33 minutes ago, Foosball God said:

I think he really believes he did nothing wrong.  Whether or not they, and a jury, feel that way is the crux.

It seems like this, and this is what makes me lean towards he probably didn't the worst of the accusations (forced acts).  If he did that stuff it seems like he would be under no illusion of innocence, but then again denial is a powerful drug. 

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We have no idea what the conversations entail between both sides.  

Maybe there have been settlement talks.  Maybe there haven't been settlement talks. 

It's easy to sit here and say settle for Watson, but right now what would a settlement be?  Would it be 100 million?  1 million?  Is there still a possibility more accusations come forward and this all starts all over again which would have made settling pointless?

This is a prime example of a situation where the NFL should do absolutely nothing regarding suspensions/fines and allow the legal system to play out.  This could literally take 2 years where Watson could be suspended that entire time only to found out he was innocent.  

It might even be a GOOD thing for the league if they start to lean on the legal system before making decisions on these kinds of suspensions.  "We will punish based on the legal findings" isnt necessarily a bad thing.  

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46 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

It might even be a GOOD thing for the league if they start to lean on the legal system before making decisions on these kinds of suspensions.  "We will punish based on the legal findings" isnt necessarily a bad thing.  

That won't happen because of the current social justice climate in the NFL and I phrased that as nicely as I could and certainly don't want to open that can of worms in the Shark Pool, so I'll just leave it at that.

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It seems pretty clear to me the NFL uses the exempt list to put a player on ice until the heat dies down. It's usually the tool reserved for when news breaks in-season or close to the season and the NFL needs to make someone go away until the 24 hour news cycle has something else to consume them.

AP and AB are two good examples.

AP got put on exempt list under guise they would give him time to let legal system play out but when he verdict was reached he magically got suspended for just enough games to cover the ROS. They just wanted him to go away for a year and let things die down.

AB never technically got put on exempt list but it was coming is why NE cut him and the NFL putting out that threatening letter he'd be put on hit if anyone signed him is why no one would sign him in 2019. But he's a good example along with AP of why the NFL does not really care so much on letting legal system play out so much as they just want you gone until the frenzy calms down because AB's case is still open.

It's all just PR.

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28 minutes ago, osubuckeyeman said:

That will depend on a lot but yes it could be a very long time.

Without going back to read the other posts, but you can count on him not being out more than a year and I suspect only 8 games.  Not enough to sell cheap IMO.  Without reading the post from @Dr. OctopusI could be off completely the original intent of his post and if I am, just disregard my post.

Edited by JohnnyU
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As others have pointed out, the league not taking action until the legal process plays out was YESTERDAY's model, which resulted in the league getting roasted in the court of public opinion when the Ray Rice situation happened.  The demonstrated TODAY model is to put the player on the commish's exempt list if the situation has a "bad look".  

Team DW seems to believe the prosecution will fail to meet burden of proof in criminal court.  Assuming there is no smoking gun, they are probably correct as it would then become he said / she said, which can work in civil court but is sketchy in criminal court.

If they win in criminal court, I could see a smaller settlement payday for some of the plaintiffs, but Team DW seems pretty entrenched at the moment.

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1 minute ago, SeniorVBDStudent said:

As others have pointed out, the league not taking action until the legal process plays out was YESTERDAY's model, which resulted in the league getting roasted in the court of public opinion when the Ray Rice situation happened.  The demonstrated TODAY model is to put the player on the commish's exempt list if the situation has a "bad look".  

Team DW seems to believe the prosecution will fail to meet burden of proof in criminal court.  Assuming there is no smoking gun, they are probably correct as it would then become he said / she said, which can work in civil court but is sketchy in criminal court.

If they win in criminal court, I could see a smaller settlement payday for some of the plaintiffs, but Team DW seems pretty entrenched at the moment.

Is there going to be a criminal court?  I thought this was just a civil thingy.  Perhaps I'm just not keeping up.

Edited by JohnnyU
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1 hour ago, SeniorVBDStudent said:

As others have pointed out, the league not taking action until the legal process plays out was YESTERDAY's model, which resulted in the league getting roasted in the court of public opinion when the Ray Rice situation happened.  The demonstrated TODAY model is to put the player on the commish's exempt list if the situation has a "bad look".  

Team DW seems to believe the prosecution will fail to meet burden of proof in criminal court.  Assuming there is no smoking gun, they are probably correct as it would then become he said / she said, which can work in civil court but is sketchy in criminal court.

If they win in criminal court, I could see a smaller settlement payday for some of the plaintiffs, but Team DW seems pretty entrenched at the moment.

The NFL screwed up when they allowed public opinion in to decide severity of punishment.

This led to a media frenzy because now they felt they had power to influence descipline.

"We will follow the standards of the law".  It will be tough at first but would be easy after a year.

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13 hours ago, JohnnyU said:

Without going back to read the other posts, but you can count on him not being out more than a year and I suspect only 8 games.  Not enough to sell cheap IMO.  Without reading the post from @Dr. OctopusI could be off completely the original intent of his post and if I am, just disregard my post.

I’m saying a civil litigation from the filing of the Complaint to trial could take anywhere from 1-3 years. I’m not talking about any length of suspension. However if this does not settle quickly, the NFL will most likely place him on its exempt list which means he’d likely miss the 2021 season with pay. 

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4 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

The accusers should not be able to retain their anonymity.  The accused has the right to know who his accusers are, regardless of what that means with the media.


 

Quote

Hardin's official legal response attached at least some of those names to counter-allegations that they bragged about their encounters with Watson, or worked with Watson multiple times despite their claims, or lied about the trauma they say they've suffered since their session with Watson. 

But that's not the really gross and potentially dangerous part.

No, the really gross part, and the thing he did with no regard to their personal safety, was that Hardin emailed all of it — the statement and the legal filing — directly to reporters. Under normal circumstances, a reporter that knows their way around the legal system would have to search for such a filing and likely cough up a couple of dollars to access it.

And many of those reporters did exactly what Hardin was hoping they'd do: posted screenshots of the documents directly to Twitter, where bad actors had immediate access to names of the alleged victims and could harass them (or worse).

Yes, the women had to surrender their anonymity, and yes, that meant they could have been found.

But as I've been told, most crimes are crimes of opportunity. If you're a Watson fan who is angry that the player who has been careful to present himself to the world as a charitable, smiling guy is facing these accusations, and if you want some sort of revenge — the kind of thing, so we're clear, that Watson would never do for you were the tables turned — it became a hell of a lot easier to reach out to those women when a media corps more concerned with access than substance and proper journalistic behavior dutifully re-shared their names into the ether.

An ethical journalist wouldn't publicize the alleged victims' names until the case had advanced to the discovery phase. Right now, these cases are in the early stages, with the two sides trading accusations and all of it getting increasingly ugly in their posturing.

For the public at large, had they been required to search for the legal documents or fork up some money to get the names, maybe their rage would be confined to tweets from a troll account.

Now, however, the opportunity is there to personally harass these women. Look them up. Threaten them with death or rape, or show up on their doorstep because they've hurt an NFL player you've never met before.

It's what Ashley Solis, the licensed massage therapist who was the first to accuse Watson of sexual misconduct, has dealt with since so bravely going public and putting her name and her face to her claim.

And now more women, who have come forward to say that they were forced into sexual acts or made to feel violated and uncomfortable when they were just doing their job, are likely facing the same heinous abuse.

If one of those women is injured by a Watson superfan, will Watson or Hardin care? If one of those women hurts herself because of an onslaught of hatred and threats, will either of those men be moved at all? 

If one of the women is lying, there are legal ways for her to be penalized for doing so. She should not have to fear an unending stream of abuse or even physical assault because of it.

And if that happens and the women are telling the truth, they've victimized again. For seeking justice.

 

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Deshaun Watson’s team had every legal right to lift the veil of anonymity so that he could face his accusers and could form a legal defence. What I take issue with is how his legal team made it easy for the media to mass broadcast those names.  

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1 minute ago, Faust said:

Deshaun Watson’s team had every legal right to lift the veil of anonymity so that he could face his accusers and could form a legal defence. What I take issue with is how his legal team made it easy for the media to mass broadcast those names.  

Welcome to the internet.  Gone are the days of Walter Cronkite, the most trusted man in the country. 

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  • Faust changed the title to QB Deshaun Watson, HOU

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