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RB Alex Collins, SEA (2 Viewers)

Weebs210 said:
@humpback I don't think you understand. They THOUGHT they had tons of RB talent. It is really not a hard concept to understand.
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Rawls and Prosise were injured at the time, and we're supposed to believe that they were so sure Lacy was going to be great on September 2nd when they cut Collins, but then after 5 carries 1 week later they deemed him unworthy of even being active?

If Seattle thought they had tons of RB talent, why did they add Mike Davis in May? Why did they elect to sign him to the practice squad after cuts and not Collins? Mike Davis, a guy who didn't know the system and has done nothing in 2 NFL seasons.

Why did no other team claim Collins off waivers if he was waived because of the talent in front of him- do they all think they have tons of talent at RB as well? If so, wouldn't that mean that they all think Collins is less talented than their RBs?

How about 2016? Did they have tons of talent then too, when the only other healthy RB they had for stretches was a guy they dumped (again)?

I get it, you want your waiver claim to work out for you, so do I. I just don't think your argument holds water.

 
BearsFan4Life said:
He is still sitting there in my 14 team dynasty and want to grab him but do you drop Mack, Higgins, or Darkwa for him..
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It's Mack by a long shot.  He's dependent on a Gore in jury plus when the franchise comes back in a couple of weeks they are going to run the veteran - Gore- out there to help protect him.

 
Weebs210 said:
A few guys in here are going to eat some crow. It's going to be fun.
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Of course they will...or we will, not sure yet but some people will definitely be eating crow at some point in the future.

I hope it's them because those guys suck. 

Although crow is an underated protein, very lean, not too gamey. Because it's easy to overcook I recommend cooking confit with only a little salt and pepper, and maybe a little butter as crow is so lean, using sous vide technique (ChefSteps Joule is the best on the market right now), flash sear in a ripping hot pan, then top it with some Lucky Dog hot sauce because...awesome...and vegetables of your choice (nothing too starchy, save that for your cheat day) and you have a nice week night meal for one. One very lonely guy who spends way too much time talking with iFriends on a magic football message board.

I'm sorry what were we talking about again?

 
shadyridr said:
Who cares why Seattle cut him? Seriously. He looks good right now. That's all that matters. Lets see if that translates to more playing time.  Good players get cut sometimes. It happens.

Sorry didnt mean to be so harsh above
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Yeah I don't understand this argument. Just because a player cut, something must be wrong with him. Does it ever cross anyone's mind that coaches/scouts can be wrong on players? I know, what a concept, right!? 

As I said above, this argument is not a fair one. Just because someone wasn't drafted round 1-3, were cut, or traded doesn't mean that they're no good. There are plenty of players who fit this and went on to be excellent in the NFL. Yes, there are many players that fit those 3 categories that flame out as well. This is a lazy argument however. "Well, he was cut by a team with crappy RBs so he must be bad." "Well, he was drafted round 5 and not many guys drafted round 5 go on to be meaningful starters at running back." All lazy arguments. To completely disregard someone because of where they were drafted or where they were cut from is completely lazy because you aren't looking at how he has been playing, how he looks, and how he fits in his new offense. 

Collins passes the eye test thus far. He has all the abilities and tools to succeed. The rest is up to him and the coaches, and it looks like he has the coaches on his side... so really it's up to him. 

If his name was Kenneth Dixon and not Alex Collins people would be raving about him being a potential RB1... (and he was a fourth round pick... not much of a difference IMO)

 
Chaka said:
Of course they will...or we will, not sure yet but some people will definitely be eating crow at some point in the future.

I hope it's them because those guys suck. 

Although crow is an underated protein, very lean, not too gamey. Because it's easy to overcook I recommend cooking confit with only a little salt and pepper, and maybe a little butter as crow is so lean, using sous vide technique (ChefSteps Joule is the best on the market right now), flash sear in a ripping hot pan, then top it with some Lucky Dog hot sauce because...awesome...and vegetables of your choice (nothing too starchy, save that for your cheat day) and you have a nice week night meal for one. One very lonely guy who spends way too much time talking with iFriends on a magic football message board.

I'm sorry what were we talking about again?
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I love this.

Getting my Lucky Dog sauce either by this weekend I believe... excited to try it out! 

 
Chaka said:
Of course they will...or we will, not sure yet but some people will definitely be eating crow at some point in the future.

I hope it's them because those guys suck. 

Although crow is an underated protein, very lean, not too gamey. Because it's easy to overcook I recommend cooking confit with only a little salt and pepper, and maybe a little butter as crow is so lean, using sous vide technique (ChefSteps Joule is the best on the market right now), flash sear in a ripping hot pan, then top it with some Lucky Dog hot sauce because...awesome...and vegetables of your choice (nothing too starchy, save that for your cheat day) and you have a nice week night meal for one. One very lonely guy who spends way too much time talking with iFriends on a magic football message board.

I'm sorry what were we talking about again?
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Well done, Chaka! 

 
BearsFan4Life said:
He is still sitting there in my 14 team dynasty and want to grab him but do you drop Mack, Higgins, or Darkwa for him..
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I can't believe people are recommending dropping Mack. This is a dynasty league people, not redraft. Mack doesn't need a Gore injury to be relevant next year. Plus Luck will be back next year making the offense decent.

 
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ldizzle said:
I can't believe people are recommending dropping Mack. This is a dynasty league people, not redraft. Mack doesn't need a Gore injury to be relevant next year. Plus Luck will be back next year making the offense decent.
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I agree. I'm on board in dynasty, but I think Higgins or Darkwa are better drop decisions. 

 
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Darkwa is a better drop than Mack. I absolutely love Mack in dynasty. Darkwa has a dumpster fire there in NY, meanwhile Collins' situation at least looks rosier. 

 

 
shadyridr said:
Who cares why Seattle cut him? Seriously. He looks good right now. That's all that matters. Lets see if that translates to more playing time.  Good players get cut sometimes. It happens.

Sorry didnt mean to be so harsh above
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That's really the key.  Maybe Collins was dinged up and just didn't impress.  Maybe they didn't like his contributions in the meetings/film/install sessions.  Maybe they want more out of him in pass pro.  Teams make decisions all the time that in hindsight they shouldn't have, just ask Buffalo fans.

 
Just traded perpetual disappointment Ebron for him in my dynasty league.  I have Engram, Julius thomas and ryan griffin, and I'm paper thin at Rb after Doug martin, mccaffery and I have buck Allen.  

Choo choo!!

 
Hankmoody said:
That's really the key.  Maybe Collins was dinged up and just didn't impress.  Maybe they didn't like his contributions in the meetings/film/install sessions.  Maybe they want more out of him in pass pro.  Teams make decisions all the time that in hindsight they shouldn't have, just ask Buffalo fans.
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So you know how the Seattle O-line isn't exactly great?  Collins looked really tentative behind it in comparison to the other RBs.  He would routinely get 2-3 yards where others seemed would get 5-6.  If he was hit in the backfield he wasn't making it back to the line.  

Quite frankly, he looks like a totally different player in BAL.  Maybe the cut motivated him.

 
biju said:
So you know how the Seattle O-line isn't exactly great?  Collins looked really tentative behind it in comparison to the other RBs.  He would routinely get 2-3 yards where others seemed would get 5-6.  If he was hit in the backfield he wasn't making it back to the line.  

Quite frankly, he looks like a totally different player in BAL.  Maybe the cut motivated him.
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I agree. Collins looks much better.

You never know if/when the light will come on. Seems like he found his groove in Baltimore.

 
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biju said:
So you know how the Seattle O-line isn't exactly great?  Collins looked really tentative behind it in comparison to the other RBs.  He would routinely get 2-3 yards where others seemed would get 5-6.  If he was hit in the backfield he wasn't making it back to the line.  

Quite frankly, he looks like a totally different player in BAL.  Maybe the cut motivated him.
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Could be.  Maybe BAL's RB coach is hitting home whereas SEA's wasn't able to?  Could be he just needed some different perspective on how to run behind that kind of line. 

Collins is a guy I have always been high on.  I had him #5 on my rookie rankings pre-NFL draft.  I didn't see him much in SEA so wasn't really in tune with why he wasn't playing, but I loved how he ran in college.

 
It's probably the scheme. He may simply be a better fit in Baltimore's offense.

Or it's only 16 carries late in blowouts and he will start sucking on Sunday.

 
shadyridr said:
Who cares why Seattle cut him? Seriously. He looks good right now. That's all that matters. Lets see if that translates to more playing time.  Good players get cut sometimes. It happens.

Sorry didnt mean to be so harsh above
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Bad players get cut sometimes too. I think determining the reason a player was cut can be telling, especially when considering longer-term/dynasty prospects. IMO there's a difference between getting cut because you aren't good vs. getting cut because you're stuck behind superstars.

In any event, it seems like a lot of people care since they keep arguing that he was cut because Seattle was loaded at RB (which is why I entered the conversation).

 
humpback said:
Bad players get cut sometimes too. I think determining the reason a player was cut can be telling, especially when considering longer-term/dynasty prospects. IMO there's a difference between getting cut because you aren't good vs. getting cut because you're stuck behind superstars.

In any event, it seems like a lot of people care since they keep arguing that he was cut because Seattle was loaded at RB (which is why I entered the conversation).
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We get it. You think he is bad and won't succeed.

 
Dr. Dan said:
Yeah I don't understand this argument. Just because a player cut, something must be wrong with him. Does it ever cross anyone's mind that coaches/scouts can be wrong on players? I know, what a concept, right!? 

As I said above, this argument is not a fair one. Just because someone wasn't drafted round 1-3, were cut, or traded doesn't mean that they're no good. There are plenty of players who fit this and went on to be excellent in the NFL. Yes, there are many players that fit those 3 categories that flame out as well. This is a lazy argument however. "Well, he was cut by a team with crappy RBs so he must be bad." "Well, he was drafted round 5 and not many guys drafted round 5 go on to be meaningful starters at running back." All lazy arguments. To completely disregard someone because of where they were drafted or where they were cut from is completely lazy because you aren't looking at how he has been playing, how he looks, and how he fits in his new offense. 

Collins passes the eye test thus far. He has all the abilities and tools to succeed. The rest is up to him and the coaches, and it looks like he has the coaches on his side... so really it's up to him. 

If his name was Kenneth Dixon and not Alex Collins people would be raving about him being a potential RB1... (and he was a fourth round pick... not much of a difference IMO)
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Holy strawman. No one is saying that he must be a bad player because he was cut or drafted in the 5th round, nor is anyone completely disregarding him. I explicitly said that perhaps Seattle was wrong in their assessment of him, or maybe he's since improved his play. I own him for crying out loud, just trying to get a better understanding of why it didn't work out in Seattle because it might be relevant for his long-term expectations.

Talk about being lazy and unfair, you don't even seem to read the actual posts.  :lol:

 
What Collins did in Seattle & what happened there is getting to be irrelevant for me. He simply looks like a better prospect in Baltimore for whatever reason(s).

I, for one, am looking at him from a new perspective.

 
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Weebs210 said:
@humpback I don't think you understand. They THOUGHT they had tons of RB talent. It is really not a hard concept to understand.

Edit: I'm also not sure what this has to do with Collins producing on the Ravens?
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The whole "well if Seattle cut him" how good can he be?

Again.....simply watching him play....on The Ravens....tells me we have something here. He has looked very good.

 
Chaka said:
It's probably the scheme. He may simply be a better fit in Baltimore's offense.
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I like this theory.

The comp that comes to mind is Justin Forsett, who was a total JAG for 4-5 years until he went to the Ravens and exploded in their zone scheme.

 
humpback said:
Holy strawman. No one is saying that he must be a bad player because he was cut or drafted in the 5th round, nor is anyone completely disregarding him. I explicitly said that perhaps Seattle was wrong in their assessment of him, or maybe he's since improved his play. I own him for crying out loud, just trying to get a better understanding of why it didn't work out in Seattle because it might be relevant for his long-term expectations.

Talk about being lazy and unfair, you don't even seem to read the actual posts.  :lol:
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Yes, there have been people in here who have insinuated those very things. Not just in this thread, but in many others. This is a common theme when someone has no other argument but just wants to hate on a particular player. I wasn't directing my comment at you, not sure where you got that from. However, you seem to be the one in here leading the charge with regards to "Seattle didn't have good RBs and they cut him so what does that say?"  :lol:  

 
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Dr. Dan said:
Yes, there have been people in here who have insinuated those very things. Not just in this thread, but in many others. This is a common theme when someone has no other argument but just wants to hate on a particular player. I wasn't directing my comment at you, not sure where you got that from. However, you seem to be the one in here leading the charge with regards to "Seattle didn't have good RBs and they cut him so what does that say?"  :lol:  
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Should be very easy to provide some links, right? From this thread by the way, lmao at "in many others", like that's relevant to this conversation.  :lol:

 
humpback said:
Should be very easy to provide some links, right? From this thread by the way, lmao at "in many others", like that's relevant to this conversation.  :lol:
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If you took your own advice and read my comments, you'd see that I said that I was not a fan of the argument in general. Not specifically to this player, but it's a good example. Yes, in other threads people have dogged certain players. Such as Jamaal Williams, even in the Hunt thread preseason there was talk that he wasn't drafted high enough and was JAG, Cohen's thread many people commented that he wasn't drafted high enough. 

It may not be relevant to Collins specifically, but it's relevant to how over-used that type of lazy argument is. Sorry you can't really see past this and see exactly what I was saying. We're going to have to agree to just drop it I guess. 

Bottom line, who cares where he was dropped from or where he was drafted. That's about as useless as where he played in college. He looks great right now today. 

 
Chaka said:
Received my shipment this week, haven't tried them all yet (5 bottles) but there are some great flavor combinations.  Plus it's always nice to support fellow FBGs, unless they don't like Alex Collins; those guys are on their own.
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I think mine arrives today. I will have a busy weekend! 

 
Dr. Dan said:
If you took your own advice and read my comments, you'd see that I said that I was not a fan of the argument in general. Not specifically to this player, but it's a good example. Yes, in other threads people have dogged certain players. Such as Jamaal Williams, even in the Hunt thread preseason there was talk that he wasn't drafted high enough and was JAG, Cohen's thread many people commented that he wasn't drafted high enough. 

It may not be relevant to Collins specifically, but it's relevant to how over-used that type of lazy argument is. Sorry you can't really see past this and see exactly what I was saying. We're going to have to agree to just drop it I guess. 

Bottom line, who cares where he was dropped from or where he was drafted. That's about as useless as where he played in college. He looks great right now today. 
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I picture you moon walking as you backtrack- or is it more of an all-out reverse sprint?  :lol:

Why would I possibly care if you're not a fan of some random argument in general that no one has made in here? How on earth is it a good example? It's frankly not possible to have a worse example because it didn't happen. Textbook straw man, and you just keep doubling down. Anything else you want to get off your chest that has absolutely nothing to do with this?

Like I said (but you'd have to actually read to see it), I picked him up too, so I'm hoping for the best. I'm sure somehow you'll twist that into me saying he's the worst RB in the NFL with zero chance of success because he's a 5th round pick. It's so absurd that it's funny.  :lol:

Good luck with Collins everyone!

 
humpback said:
I picture you moon walking as you backtrack- or is it more of an all-out reverse sprint?  :lol:

Why would I possibly care if you're not a fan of some random argument in general that no one has made in here? How on earth is it a good example? It's frankly not possible to have a worse example because it didn't happen. Textbook straw man, and you just keep doubling down. Anything else you want to get off your chest that has absolutely nothing to do with this?

Like I said (but you'd have to actually read to see it), I picked him up too, so I'm hoping for the best. I'm sure somehow you'll twist that into me saying he's the worst RB in the NFL with zero chance of success because he's a 5th round pick. It's so absurd that it's funny.  :lol:

Good luck with Collins everyone!
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I don't know why you're trying to pick a fight. The issue I brought up is that people often over-use a terrible argument when trying to find a fault in a player; draft position and/or if they were previously cut. If you can't understand that, then that's not my issue. In my original quote I never once mentioned you or even brought up any direct quote from you. So I'm not sure why it struck such a nerve with you. But I'm sorry you reacted the way you did to my statement. 

Again, we will have to just agree to drop it. Thank you. 

 
I really want to play him this week at home vs. the Steelers.  The Bears ran through them at will.  It would be a flex call vs Sanu.  I have to get a better fell for potential split and snaps to pull the trigger.  But I really think he'll emerge this week

 
SameSongNDance said:
Collins is better than Michael. I pretty much always contended that Michael sucked though so Collins doesn't really need to clear a high bar for me personally. As for why they didn't take a mulligan the following year, I already covered it.

The last aspect of SEA's offense to place blame on for their struggles is their RBs. The problem is their OL and it's quite obvious to anyone who has even been remotely paying attention.
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I think things tend to be more complex than that. I will strive to pay more attention in the future.

 
Biabreakable said:
A. Collins Week 3 vs. JAC

Thanks to SSND for putting this together.
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What a see here is some pretty good footwork and change of direction. One spin move to get out of a bad spot. Overall I think he looks pretty good and the same player I watched in college cut ups (no surprise there).

The Jacksonville defense doing a pretty good job for the most part.

I can see Pete Carroll perhaps not being satisfied with the yards after contact. He doesn't lay the wood at the end of his runs much.

 
Biabreakable said:
What a see here is some pretty good footwork and change of direction. One spin move to get out of a bad spot. Overall I think he looks pretty good and the same player I watched in college cut ups (no surprise there).

The Jacksonville defense doing a pretty good job for the most part.

I can see Pete Carroll perhaps not being satisfied with the yards after contact. He doesn't lay the wood at the end of his runs much.
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*Loves yards after contact*

*Throws from the one in the Superbowl*

 
Biabreakable said:
What a see here is some pretty good footwork and change of direction. One spin move to get out of a bad spot. Overall I think he looks pretty good and the same player I watched in college cut ups (no surprise there).

The Jacksonville defense doing a pretty good job for the most part.

I can see Pete Carroll perhaps not being satisfied with the yards after contact. He doesn't lay the wood at the end of his runs much.
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:goodposting:

Last season, Collins bulked up thinking he needed more power to his game.  This season, he showed up for camp in phenomenal shape, trimmed down to 204.  He is not going to steamroll defenders at his current weight, but he has back the burst he showed in college.

 
Biabreakable said:
What a see here is some pretty good footwork and change of direction. One spin move to get out of a bad spot. Overall I think he looks pretty good and the same player I watched in college cut ups (no surprise there).

The Jacksonville defense doing a pretty good job for the most part.

I can see Pete Carroll perhaps not being satisfied with the yards after contact. He doesn't lay the wood at the end of his runs much.
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Is it just me, or does he also completely deviate from the planned run scheme on the fly on several plays.  I swear I saw 3 or 4 plays where the blocking was going one way and he just suddenly bursts back the other way, sometimes getting good yardage, sometimes not.

 
ahartig said:
Is it just me, or does he also completely deviate from the planned run scheme on the fly on several plays.  I swear I saw 3 or 4 plays where the blocking was going one way and he just suddenly bursts back the other way, sometimes getting good yardage, sometimes not.
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Yeah he does go off script a bit on a few of these plays and sometimes coaches really don't like that.

 
ahartig said:
Is it just me, or does he also completely deviate from the planned run scheme on the fly on several plays.  I swear I saw 3 or 4 plays where the blocking was going one way and he just suddenly bursts back the other way, sometimes getting good yardage, sometimes not.
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Thought they were counter plays.

 
ldizzle said:
I can't believe people are recommending dropping Mack. This is a dynasty league people, not redraft. Mack doesn't need a Gore injury to be relevant next year. Plus Luck will be back next year making the offense decent.
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For some reason I thought of Mack Hollins when I read his post. Yeah, don't cut Marlon Mack in dynasty.

 
Biabreakable said:
Yeah he does go off script a bit on a few of these plays and sometimes coaches really don't like that.
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In the epic Christine Michael thread people would commonly argue that the reason he didn't get a fair shot was that he frequently went off script.

 
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