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Bitcoin-Explain to me how to buy these things


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1 minute ago, jb1020 said:

I'll let you know soon.  :X

I've only had this account up and going since December so I'm not certain on how all the tax stuff shakes out.  

Yea i used to trade alot a few years ago.  then they increased capital gains on crypto which absolutely KILLED me come tax time.  Now i do similar to you, diversify and hold, then take profit every so often.  buy dips on occasion. 

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1 hour ago, The Ref said:

#Fakenews..... sort of

 

they voted to explore BTC adoption.  They were supposed to vote on actual adoption but there are legal issues with state of Florida in assets that a local municipal can hold.

Guess they wouldn’t want the mayor of Detroit put all cash into Ford stock sort of thing..... makes sense

If Andrew yang pulls through as the next NYC mayor, plan on heading quite a bit on this topic...

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14 minutes ago, PinkydaPimp said:

Yea i used to trade alot a few years ago.  then they increased capital gains on crypto which absolutely KILLED me come tax time.  Now i do similar to you, diversify and hold, then take profit every so often.  buy dips on occasion. 

Stupid question I'm sure...Will the capital gains impact me if I never take a profit?  In 2-3 months of buying crypto I haven't taken any profits to the bank.  I just keep converting and holding.  

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10 minutes ago, jb1020 said:

Stupid question I'm sure...Will the capital gains impact me if I never take a profit?  In 2-3 months of buying crypto I haven't taken any profits to the bank

Sounds like a question for @SWC bromigo.

Edited by Vegas Trip
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8 minutes ago, Nathan R. Jessep said:

re: capital gains

Are they only assessed if you withdraw the money to your bank? Or are they assessed any time you sell a coin? :ph34r: 

I'd like to know too.  Maybe the IRS will start accepting crypto?  HA 

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1 hour ago, HaFo SaFo said:

 

I might be mistaken, but, the Fed can't add cash to their balance sheet (regardless of whether they print an actual paper bill or not) without an offsetting T-bond sale. But I'm not an economist. 

True, but the argument most often used against BTC is the physical one that people feel safer with US currency or gold. In those cases, there is no physical currency created. It turns out that wasn't his argument though. 

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56 minutes ago, HaFo SaFo said:

 

All currency is backed by the "full faith and credit" of something. That's what has "value", though it is not material or intrinsic. 

Whatever "full faith and credit" one has in the US Treasury Department, that they're going to deliver on their numbers, that's a certain value. Someone may have a different value placed on the full faith and credit of the German government of the 1920... that value was very low which led to reichsmarks being worthless.

I guess the question is whether an individual trusts in the Full Faith and Credit of the US Treasury more/less than whoever or whatever "Satoshi Nakamotoi" is, and whether a vendor accepting currency also puts the same relative value more/less on the US Treasury vs. Satoshi, and whether the society as a whole trusts the US Treasury more/less than Satoshi. 

That dynamic is really what is being measured.

Oh sure and that's the point really, right? If you believe in the full faith and credit of blockchain/the internet/whatever, you feel better about the value being backed. You can certainly feel more secure in the US Treasury than "Blockchain" but feel that "Blockchain" has some value, right? Or are you arguing that it's an either/or question?

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And again, I don't think BTC is really aiming at currency, more as a store of value. Makes a pretty big difference in my opinion. I need to know that there are many places that accept my currency because I need food, I need shelter, etc and I need to exchange my currency for those necessary things. I can keep a bunch of gold, BTC or Tom Brady rookie cards because I think at some point in the future, someone will value it more than it is valued now. I don't need the grocery store to value gold, BTC or Tom Brady rookie cards for my store of value. 

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Just now, HaFo SaFo said:

Right, I'm saying it's all relative. It's important to remember it's not just one person's opinion or "your" opinion, but, the world economy and everyone in it as a whole.

Sorry, see the post I just added. Difference between currency and store of value. 

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3 hours ago, ConstruxBoy said:

And again, I don't think BTC is really aiming at currency, more as a store of value. Makes a pretty big difference in my opinion. I need to know that there are many places that accept my currency because I need food, I need shelter, etc and I need to exchange my currency for those necessary things. I can keep a bunch of gold, BTC or Tom Brady rookie cards because I think at some point in the future, someone will value it more than it is valued now. I don't need the grocery store to value gold, BTC or Tom Brady rookie cards for my store of value. 

Agreed, and if it is on the rise like it has been, who is going to spend it, if they believe it will continue to rise. We don't hold on to our dollars thinking they will be worth 10, or even 2 tomorrow. 

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On 2/12/2021 at 6:28 AM, PinkydaPimp said:

people said the same when it was 5k, 20k, etc.  Buy something and HOLD it.  See what happens.  Profit!

I thought the same thing when I first heard about bitcoin on the two plus two poker forums in 2011 😭

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On 2/12/2021 at 9:49 AM, jb1020 said:

I have a similar spread.  Probably a bit more BTC.   My hope on Eth has faded a little, but there are still some people speculating its the real deal and an ETH coin could hit 6 figures in 18-24 months.  So I'm certainly not dumping it either.  

LINK, LTC and SNX are the other I'm just Hodling for now.  

The rest are trading chips.  Just have to resist the urge to trade them too often!  

who says ETH could hit 6 figures?

also, can anyone direct me to ren's crypto thread?  can't seem to get there through search.

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10 hours ago, Charlie Harper said:

Can someone explain LINK to me? My coworkers are big in it. I ask why it's valuable and they say because everything uses it. I'm having trouble seeing the long-term value.

The way I read it/understand it is that LINK helps solve the "oracle problem". The oracle is the external/outside information to a blockchain. So we can see that something simple like BTC doesn't need any external parameters. But blockchains, and specifically smart contracts, could reasonably use external data. Let's say I want to do something in a blockchain that depends on the exchange rate. That rate can change daily. How do I get that information into the blockchain in a secure manner? 

Or take a smart contract for gambling. If I want to bet that the Bills win the Super Bowl next year, the smart contract needs to be able to read the result of next year's Super Bowl. So how can that be done with the same security level as an independent blockchain? If an application can do that, it seems like a gold mine for smart contracts and blockchain. And ChainLink seems to be the best solution for that by a long shot. 

At least, that's my impression. I can't vouch for it at a low technical level. 

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On 2/12/2021 at 5:51 AM, The Ref said:

city of Miami just announced they are going to be the first BTC city.

employees paid in BTC

bills paid in BTC

taxes/tickets revived in BTC

etc 

this is a MAJOR milestone IMHO

Is that true? :shock:

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2 hours ago, ConstruxBoy said:

The way I read it/understand it is that LINK helps solve the "oracle problem". The oracle is the external/outside information to a blockchain. So we can see that something simple like BTC doesn't need any external parameters. But blockchains, and specifically smart contracts, could reasonably use external data. Let's say I want to do something in a blockchain that depends on the exchange rate. That rate can change daily. How do I get that information into the blockchain in a secure manner? 

Or take a smart contract for gambling. If I want to bet that the Bills win the Super Bowl next year, the smart contract needs to be able to read the result of next year's Super Bowl. So how can that be done with the same security level as an independent blockchain? If an application can do that, it seems like a gold mine for smart contracts and blockchain. And ChainLink seems to be the best solution for that by a long shot. 

At least, that's my impression. I can't vouch for it at a low technical level. 

Wow. Thank you so much. My own research led me to the "Oracle problem", but your real world examples helped clarify everything. 

Yes. I definitely see the value of LINK now. Seems like it will have a place when governments and banks start creating their own crypto/stable coins.

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I hate myself for not doing this a year ago or 5 years ago, but whatever. Started dumping a few bucks into BTC and four other cryptos (Ether; Lightcoin; and two other cheap ones on Coinbase I’d never heard of before).  Not huge amounts, but at least something to feel like I’m in the game. Probably should do more, but I’m also buying into blockchain stocks like RIOT at higher levels, so don’t want to get too nuts with my exposure here. 

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On 2/12/2021 at 6:51 AM, The Ref said:

city of Miami just announced they are going to be the first BTC city.

employees paid in BTC

bills paid in BTC

taxes/tickets revived in BTC

etc 

this is a MAJOR milestone IMHO

Looks like this was rejected by commissioners, requesting deeper dive first 

https://www.coindesk.com/miami-commissioners-reject-mayors-push-to-ok-crypto-use-vote-to-study-it-first-report

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4 hours ago, Otis said:

I hate myself for not doing this a year ago or 5 years ago, but whatever. Started dumping a few bucks into BTC and four other cryptos (Ether; Lightcoin; and two other cheap ones on Coinbase I’d never heard of before).  Not huge amounts, but at least something to feel like I’m in the game. Probably should do more, but I’m also buying into blockchain stocks like RIOT at higher levels, so don’t want to get too nuts with my exposure here. 

IMO go BTC top heavy here....like some of the other distribution spreads posted here (maybe 75% BTC / 15% ETH / 10% others). #notanexpert 
 

Smaller coins have a far higher chance of going to 0, whereas BTC and to a lesser extent ETH have begun to cross or crossed the divide into stability. 

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6 hours ago, Otis said:

I hate myself for not doing this a year ago or 5 years ago, but whatever. Started dumping a few bucks into BTC and four other cryptos (Ether; Lightcoin; and two other cheap ones on Coinbase I’d never heard of before).  Not huge amounts, but at least something to feel like I’m in the game. Probably should do more, but I’m also buying into blockchain stocks like RIOT at higher levels, so don’t want to get too nuts with my exposure here. 

We should all hate ourselves for not doing this 5 years ago.  That is results oriented thinking.  5 years ago this was all nerds in their moms basement buying pizzas.

Today we have Wall Street companies loading up as part of a permanent treasury strategy.  The accumulation is just starting and there isn’t enough to go around at these prices.  Tens of Billions in demand is going in, not millions.  Current Market Cap is 885B priced in USD.

look it’s not imposable we wake up to a pile of tulip bulbs someday and for that reason at these prices you really can’t go “all in” now.  That said it’s become too viable to ignore not owning any.

I laughed at the 100K a coin crowd a few years ago.  Now I think that’s just the start.

 

 

 

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On 5/2/2017 at 1:44 PM, fantasycurse42 said:

A universal currency, backed by absolutely nothing, mainly used for black market dealings - pretty amazing the run this thing is having. 

Maybe I'll buy one bitcoin just to hold in case of Armageddon, but outside of that, way too much risk in this one for me. 

I don’t bump this to lol - he was 100% right at the time.  Point is “things have changed”.

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For the record, the dark net markets have mostly moved on to monero.

 

Blockchain analysis has pretty much removed a good portion on the "anonymous" part and MIT has cracked Tor to the point where any idiot on there selling is just a court case waiting to happen.

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7 minutes ago, The Ref said:

I don’t bump this to lol - he was 100% right at the time.  Point is “things have changed”.

I don't think anyone in the ffa has gone broke fading fc42...

 

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On 2/12/2021 at 9:08 AM, Alex P Keaton said:

Can anyone explain to me how the creation of Bitcoin is any more credible or realistic than the origin story of the “golden tablets” of Mormonism?   
 

Note:  this is both a highly ignorant and completely serious question

I don’t know of the golden tablets of Mormonism so I won’t be able to provide a frame of reference between them and BTC.

Ultimately, BTC is a ledger.  And the way BTC is ‘created’ is thru a mining process where incredibly complex mathematical equations are solved by high powered server farms (now).

What makes BTC an attractive concept for a lot of people is that there’ll only ever be 21 million BTC at its max supply.  Currently, 6.25 BTC get mined every 10 minutes.  But this hasn’t always been the case, prior to May 2020, that number was 12.5 every 10 minutes.  The rate of BTC production gets halved every 4 years...prior to May 2016, it was 25 every 10 minutes.  So the supply entering the market place is decreasing...right now there are about 18 million in circulation.

Back in March 2020 when COVID hit and the Fed went full QE...that became a real world test case of the fixed supply of BTC.  Nothing changed.  But using  very simplistic example around the USD...if you had $1 and the global supply of USD was $10, that meant you had 10% of the circulating supply of USD.  In the time since COVID, the Fed has now infused another $4 into the USD money supply.   Now, thru no action of your own...you have 7% of the money supply.  Here is a chart from the St. Louis Fed on the M2 money supply...

Its a rudimentary example...but might give you some explanation of why those who are HODLers have jumped on board.

 

 

 

Edited by TheDirtyWord
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On 2/12/2021 at 9:51 AM, jb1020 said:

I'll let you know soon.  :X

I've only had this account up and going since December so I'm not certain on how all the tax stuff shakes out.  

The trading will become expensive from a tax perspective as moving from one coin to another is seen as a realization of gains.  Also, I believe the yield you earn with BlockFi is considered taxable as well.

Article on taxes in Forbes from last month

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7 hours ago, Otis said:

I hate myself for not doing this a year ago or 5 years ago, but whatever. Started dumping a few bucks into BTC and four other cryptos (Ether; Lightcoin; and two other cheap ones on Coinbase I’d never heard of before).  Not huge amounts, but at least something to feel like I’m in the game. Probably should do more, but I’m also buying into blockchain stocks like RIOT at higher levels, so don’t want to get too nuts with my exposure here. 

I wouldn’t beat yourself up too much...quite frankly, you’re still extremely early. RIOT is largely a BTC mining operation though...what worries me about them and MARA, a very similar operation is that they are both trading at about 30x from this time last year - great performance for sure, but BTC is only up 5x during that same time.

When you look at RIOT’s revenue statement from 9/30, they didn’t increase all that much YoY ($6.7M to $5.6M) when evaluating 9-month performance.  But their current market cap is $2.4B.  At the end of the day, the BTC mining operations are pretty capital intensive...the last time they reported, they indicated they mined 222 BTC in Q3.  At current values, that’s about $11M in holdings

This is JMO, but I think people are buying into both RIOT/MARA because they can be bought easily (Robinhood, eTrade, etc...) and they are looking to gain exposure to the space.  But as barriers to entry into the crypto space are lowered and retail starts to load the boat, the upside of RIOT/MARA may decrease.

Again...JMO.

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48 minutes ago, TheDirtyWord said:

I wouldn’t beat yourself up too much...quite frankly, you’re still extremely early. RIOT is largely a BTC mining operation though...what worries me about them and MARA, a very similar operation is that they are both trading at about 30x from this time last year - great performance for sure, but BTC is only up 5x during that same time.

When you look at RIOT’s revenue statement from 9/30, they didn’t increase all that much YoY ($6.7M to $5.6M) when evaluating 9-month performance.  But their current market cap is $2.4B.  At the end of the day, the BTC mining operations are pretty capital intensive...the last time they reported, they indicated they mined 222 BTC in Q3.  At current values, that’s about $11M in holdings

This is JMO, but I think people are buying into both RIOT/MARA because they can be bought easily (Robinhood, eTrade, etc...) and they are looking to gain exposure to the space.  But as barriers to entry into the crypto space are lowered and retail starts to load the boat, the upside of RIOT/MARA may decrease.

Again...JMO.

Agreed. I own some BTC itself but one of the reasons I like mara/riot is that I can buy options on them.  As I understand it there are ways to do that with BTC itself but the barrier to entry on derivatives for the coin itself is much higher. 

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1 hour ago, TheDirtyWord said:

The trading will become expensive from a tax perspective as moving from one coin to another is seen as a realization of gains.  Also, I believe the yield you earn with BlockFi is considered taxable as well.

Article on taxes in Forbes from last month

Is currency exchange always taxed? If I exchange dollars for euros on a Europe vacation and then change them back to dollars when I get home am I taxed on any "gains" I made from exchange rate fluctuations in the interim? 

Or better yet when I make the first exchange am I taxes on any increase in the value of the USD from the time I acquired that cash many years ago before converting to euros on this vacation? 

I don't understand why BTC exchanges are taxed if things like these aren't. 

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16 minutes ago, FreeBaGeL said:

Is currency exchange always taxed? If I exchange dollars for euros on a Europe vacation and then change them back to dollars when I get home am I taxed on any "gains" I made from exchange rate fluctuations in the interim? 

Or better yet when I make the first exchange am I taxes on any increase in the value of the USD from the time I acquired that cash many years ago before converting to euros on this vacation? 

I don't understand why BTC exchanges are taxed if things like these aren't. 

Ultimately, there is probably a lot of work to be done in this country (and in reality globally) to come to policy that’s more thought out not just related to tax implications, but how will digitally native assets overall get regulated.  The sense I get is that what exists today was cobbled together to ‘close loopholes’ of taxation exclusion.

Prior to 2020, BTC’s highest market cap was $400B (when total eventual supply is used)...and there were times in 2020 where it dipped as low as $80B.  So a fully fleshed out US government and taxation code and policy likely wasn’t high on the list of priorities to address.  And let’s be fair, the narrative of what BTC actually is has changed dramatically over the last 24 months as well.  It’s utility as a ‘currency’ has seemingly been usurped by it’s newer and generally more accepted narrative as Digital Gold.

The appointment of Gary Gensler as SEC Chief I think is a good development as he’s actually taught a crypto course at MIT.  So he’s knowledgeable about the space and likely has a balanced view of how to approach this market space.  I imagine the next 4 years will see a lot of movement of this front as BTC’s price ascends to the six-figures and cryptos status as a viable asset class gains stature.

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31 minutes ago, HaFo SaFo said:

 

If you sell Microsoft stock to buy Apple in a taxable account, the capital gains you've had on the microsoft stock are taxed.

If you sell a Ken Griffey rookie card to buy a Michael Jordan, the capital gain on the Griffey card is taxed as a collectible. 

 

IRS thinks they're more like that than exchanging euros for pesos in person.

Seems like a dumb rule to me.  I can't buy Mavs tickets or a whopper with stonk or baseball cards.  I can with Bitcoin.

I imagine it's only a matter of time before it's treated as currency for tax purposes as more and more places start accepting it as payment.

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2 hours ago, Nathan R. Jessep said:

The Hustle had a good writeup on Bitcoin today:

https://thehustle.co/how-are-bitcoin-created/

I just read the whole thing twice.  Every single time I read about it, it sounds completely fake.   Appreciate the link, but this still sounds like a giant scam.

edit to add:  fully admit this is likely my own shortcoming, and not a criticism of anyone in this thread.  I’ve spent hours trying to understand Bitcoin (and other crypto currencies), and am still open to “seeing the light.”  I feel like Mr Pitt in the Seinfeld episode where he stares at the painting/print and can’t “see” what everyone else sees.

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This is the type of stuff that will end badly:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/billybambrough/2021/02/14/doge-is-underestimated-elon-musks-fav-bitcoin-rival-dogecoin-is-getting-a-surprise-upgrade/amp/

So, Jake Paul is pimping something that was created as a joke and has had no one working on it for a couple years. The developers are starting to jump back in to work primarily on security.

Now that these coins are big again, there will be way more people working to find flaws and something like Dogecoin would seem to be a perfect thing. What if there is a security flaw? Do you really think the 1 or 2 guys who haven’t touched it in years will be able to do anything about it?

I already bought into BTC and will likely add more but the alt coins are rife for issues and blowing up.

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8 hours ago, TheDirtyWord said:

I wouldn’t beat yourself up too much...quite frankly, you’re still extremely early. RIOT is largely a BTC mining operation though...what worries me about them and MARA, a very similar operation is that they are both trading at about 30x from this time last year - great performance for sure, but BTC is only up 5x during that same time.

When you look at RIOT’s revenue statement from 9/30, they didn’t increase all that much YoY ($6.7M to $5.6M) when evaluating 9-month performance.  But their current market cap is $2.4B.  At the end of the day, the BTC mining operations are pretty capital intensive...the last time they reported, they indicated they mined 222 BTC in Q3.  At current values, that’s about $11M in holdings

This is JMO, but I think people are buying into both RIOT/MARA because they can be bought easily (Robinhood, eTrade, etc...) and they are looking to gain exposure to the space.  But as barriers to entry into the crypto space are lowered and retail starts to load the boat, the upside of RIOT/MARA may decrease.

Again...JMO.

I definitely agree with that. I looked up one of the mining companies people mentioned in the stock thread and the Yahoo profile had the number of employees as 1. So basically just a guy with a bunch of mining rigs. I think with the way people are jumping into stocks once they move and find similar stocks to drive them up, I could easily see your point that these stocks are way overpriced at this point. There’s no real moat and based on financials so far how does anyone know if they are solid companies with good management.

I think as I increase, I’ll stick to the coin itself.

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17 hours ago, Alex P Keaton said:

I just read the whole thing twice.  Every single time I read about it, it sounds completely fake.   Appreciate the link, but this still sounds like a giant scam.

edit to add:  fully admit this is likely my own shortcoming, and not a criticism of anyone in this thread.  I’ve spent hours trying to understand Bitcoin (and other crypto currencies), and am still open to “seeing the light.”  I feel like Mr Pitt in the Seinfeld episode where he stares at the painting/print and can’t “see” what everyone else sees.

I'm sure you are not alone and that's fine. You shouldn't invest in anything you don't understand or don't believe in. People do that all the time, but it's best and safer not to invest your money that way. 

You certainly could turn out to be right that it's all a scam. That's clearly happened to new technologies/industries/companies in the past. 

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19 hours ago, Alex P Keaton said:

I just read the whole thing twice.  Every single time I read about it, it sounds completely fake.   Appreciate the link, but this still sounds like a giant scam.

edit to add:  fully admit this is likely my own shortcoming, and not a criticism of anyone in this thread.  I’ve spent hours trying to understand Bitcoin (and other crypto currencies), and am still open to “seeing the light.”  I feel like Mr Pitt in the Seinfeld episode where he stares at the painting/print and can’t “see” what everyone else sees.

Might I suggest a movie?  Cryptopia: Bitcoin, Blockchains and the Future of the Internet.  It was made last year, or at least released last year and I thought did a very good job at taking you through the history of crypto and where it might lead to in the future.

Being suspicious of BTC and other crypto assets is perfectly normal.  And it really is an abstract concept to grasp but simply put, BTC is simply a monetary network.  Other cryptos that have emerged produce and provide more utility which offer potential opportunities for humanity to transact value without the need for middlemen or bulk marketplaces.

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1 hour ago, TheDirtyWord said:

Might I suggest a movie?  Cryptopia: Bitcoin, Blockchains and the Future of the Internet.  It was made last year, or at least released last year and I thought did a very good job at taking you through the history of crypto and where it might lead to in the future.

Being suspicious of BTC and other crypto assets is perfectly normal.  And it really is an abstract concept to grasp but simply put, BTC is simply a monetary network.  Other cryptos that have emerged produce and provide more utility which offer potential opportunities for humanity to transact value without the need for middlemen or bulk marketplaces.

Awesome.  Thank you!

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4 hours ago, ex-ghost said:

Any suggestions on best bitcoin funds? I see GBTC, BLOK, BLCN and LEGR mentioned a lot. Looking for one to hold for the longer term.

GBTC is the biggest/best BTC-similar fund if you're looking to hold a fund that holds BTC

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I saw that Microstrategy is offering $600 million senior convertible notes to generate more cash to buy btc. I don't tweet much but couldn't help myself and replied to Saylor's tweet with the italicized below. Sure, not terribly clever, but thought I'd share anyway. 

So. These notes are only offered to qualified institutional buyers. The proceeds will be used to buy btc. One of the features of btc is that anyone can buy it. I feel some irony is present here.

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On 2/14/2021 at 9:23 AM, TheDirtyWord said:

I wouldn’t beat yourself up too much...quite frankly, you’re still extremely early. RIOT is largely a BTC mining operation though...what worries me about them and MARA, a very similar operation is that they are both trading at about 30x from this time last year - great performance for sure, but BTC is only up 5x during that same time.

When you look at RIOT’s revenue statement from 9/30, they didn’t increase all that much YoY ($6.7M to $5.6M) when evaluating 9-month performance.  But their current market cap is $2.4B.  At the end of the day, the BTC mining operations are pretty capital intensive...the last time they reported, they indicated they mined 222 BTC in Q3.  At current values, that’s about $11M in holdings

This is JMO, but I think people are buying into both RIOT/MARA because they can be bought easily (Robinhood, eTrade, etc...) and they are looking to gain exposure to the space.  But as barriers to entry into the crypto space are lowered and retail starts to load the boat, the upside of RIOT/MARA may decrease.

Again...JMO.

You are forgetting the part where they both are operating at the 8x the hash rate as where they were a year ago.

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My son just told me he is planning to buy a Bitcoin atm in San Diego with a buddy. They get 20% of all transactions minus whatever he pays for rent to the store they put it in. He’s been using one daily to deposit 900 at a time (avoids taxes?) and says there’s always people depositing to it and usually a grand or more. Has me interested in doing that up here in Marin

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12 minutes ago, HaFo SaFo said:

He's depositing $900 a day, and taking a 20% haircut ($180 a day!?) going in (not even considering the second haircut on the next transaction) thinking that it avoids taxes... of what, 15% of only the gains???

 

It’s complicated with his situation, he uses Coinbase for most of his btc transactions but he has a large amount of cash he has to move (not a drug dealer)

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