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Bitcoin-Explain to me how to buy these things


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40 minutes ago, stbugs said:

I’m just parroting what some folks mentioned about Binance, I think, where you had people almost like in a 3x ETF where if things go well, it pops even more but things go south and people have to sell. Kind of like the short squeeze stocks we hear about a lot. That said, I’m not crypto expert, just felt like stock market crashes where they say when your taxi driver is giving you stock tips, that’s a bad sign. Same here, everyone and their mother is telling you which crypto will double next. Feels like things went too high too fast.

Things were definitely frothy with retail piling in thinking it only goes up.  If you look at a weekly chart, though, this qualifies as a healthy pullback in a bull market.

The excessive leverage, pattern day trading, and pump and dumps by influencers will absolutely be a target of regulators. Sometime soon we're going to get regulation in this market which will cause short term pain, but is necessary for its longevity.   

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3 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Let’s be honest, NFTs are the first thing that’s really been used on any network outside of pure speculative investing. China runs China. If they say boo, that’s what happens over there. That’s a big risk  India has talked about the same types of bans.

I’ve always liked the tech, but I always was and still am skeptical about the coins being investments.

The while hardware thing isn’t that big of a deal IMHO. I’m not sure why having stuff running on people’s computers is meaningful. FB serves how many people? Amazon as well. I also don’t think it’s much of a stretch to say that there are some huge competitors. In cases without huge moats (like Apple owning the iPhone or FB) first mover advantage sometimes doesn’t matter. Just because BTC was first doesn’t mean they’ll win.

Anyway, don’t want to sound negative because I think the tech is very interesting but I’ve always felt weird about investing in the coin that could just be useful in the transactions.

That's not true. There are a ton of use cases beyond NFTs such as to safely store value (BTC), decentralized finance (AAVE), identification (ADA), decentralized data storage (STORJ), decentralized video and audio networks (THETA, AUDIO), decentralized AI and machine learning (AGI) and supply chain management (VET), to name a few. 

China, US, Amazon or Facebook creating their own stablecoins aren't a threat to these technologies.  The best developers in the world are working on blockchain tech.  That's not because of its future as a pure speculative trading instrument.  This technology is going to change the world, perhaps even more than the internet.   

Hoskinson Preaches 

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3 minutes ago, Captain Cranks said:

That's not true. There are a ton of use cases beyond NFTs such as to safely store value (BTC), decentralized finance (AAVE), identification (ADA), decentralized data storage (STORJ), decentralized video and audio networks (THETA, AUDIO), decentralized AI and machine learning (AGI) and supply chain management (VET), to name a few. 

China, US, Amazon or Facebook creating their own stablecoins aren't a threat to these technologies.  The best developers in the world are working on blockchain tech.  That's not because of its future as a pure speculative trading instrument.  This technology is going to change the world, perhaps even more than the internet.   

Hoskinson Preaches 

Use cases? That’s a nice topic but I’m talking about actual activity right now beyond people investing. The Mavericks are taking DOGE and Tesla took Bitcoin for a month, but NFTs are the only real activity happening, not use cases.

Again, those use cases, if they are actually successful, don’t quell my concerns that I’ve always had over the coin values. Does the THETA network operate the same whether the coin is $0.000001 or $10,000? Are the transaction fees the same regardless of coin value? It just feels like the coin values are out of whack and maybe not healthy. BTC went from an actual currency that people wanted to use to transact for real goods and now because the coin jumped up so high and is so volatile it’s become a store of value, not quite as safe. 

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2 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Use cases? That’s a nice topic but I’m talking about actual activity right now beyond people investing. The Mavericks are taking DOGE and Tesla took Bitcoin for a month, but NFTs are the only real activity happening, not use cases.

Again, those use cases, if they are actually successful, don’t quell my concerns that I’ve always had over the coin values. Does the THETA network operate the same whether the coin is $0.000001 or $10,000? Are the transaction fees the same regardless of coin value? It just feels like the coin values are out of whack and maybe not healthy. BTC went from an actual currency that people wanted to use to transact for real goods and now because the coin jumped up so high and is so volatile it’s become a store of value, not quite as safe. 

And a pretty poor store of value if it can drop 50% in the span of a month. 

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, fruity pebbles said:

And a pretty poor store of value if it can drop 50% in the span of a month. 

Do you have similar feelings for gold?  BTC is in its infancy, but its volatility is coming down.

Edited by Captain Cranks
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1 minute ago, Captain Cranks said:

Do you have similar feelings for gold?  BTC is in its infancy, but its volatility is coming down.

I’ve never seen gold lose 50% in a month. It’s actually up today. Times of instability BTC should be heading up but it essentially just follows the tech sector leading the way up or down. 

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8 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Use cases? That’s a nice topic but I’m talking about actual activity right now beyond people investing. The Mavericks are taking DOGE and Tesla took Bitcoin for a month, but NFTs are the only real activity happening, not use cases.

Again, those use cases, if they are actually successful, don’t quell my concerns that I’ve always had over the coin values. Does the THETA network operate the same whether the coin is $0.000001 or $10,000? Are the transaction fees the same regardless of coin value? It just feels like the coin values are out of whack and maybe not healthy. BTC went from an actual currency that people wanted to use to transact for real goods and now because the coin jumped up so high and is so volatile it’s become a store of value, not quite as safe. 

You're right that token values are probably zig-zagging all around and well above or below their implicit use case demand values.  Eventually, as the space matures and utilization increases, the volatility will decrease and become more in sync with use case value.  Ultimately they have to or else demand to use the underlying project will wither away.   

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4 minutes ago, fruity pebbles said:

I’ve never seen gold lose 50% in a month. It’s actually up today. Times of instability BTC should be heading up but it essentially just follows the tech sector leading the way up or down. 

September 2011 it dropped from 1,900 to 1,500.  We're talking about a "store of value" asset with centuries of market maturity exhibiting that much volatility.  

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2 hours ago, Chaos Commish said:

 

@DA RAIDERSI hope you waited, bro.

I liked that recommendation. Connect their trust wallet and maybe atomic wallet, and i think all is good to go. I also use math wallet and free wallet, and the exchange itself not so much. but for that initial fiat to crypto purchase, Binance.US seems to have the best entry.

I did wait. Still studying the whole thing. Do you think doge will bounce up, once it hits Coinbase?  Seems logical, but this market isn’t very logical. 😁

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9 minutes ago, DA RAIDERS said:

I did wait. Still studying the whole thing. Do you think doge will bounce up, once it hits Coinbase?  Seems logical, but this market isn’t very logical. 😁

I'll get back to you after my favorite vloggers tell me what to think in a couple hours. Doge is pretty much controlled but one anonymous dude. It's him, a handful of lesser whales against 5 million redditers and twitterers. There's always been a fear he would pull the rug, but why would he if it has years of growth on the horizon? So my knee jerk response is despite being a little pale faced this morning, I still think doge to $1 is a thing. It has been the determined chant of the redditers for a couple years, and I'm sure the whale, and elon, and mark cuban, and some rockstar are coming to the rescue. :)

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Posted (edited)

Fwiw, this is a guy I listen to twice a day. He basically covers the daily news, offers opinions and fact based explanations, then does an ask me anything for a few minutes. He's also hilariously drunk from time to time.

If technical analysis is your thing, this guy vets charts with solid accuracy and clarity. He is also the guy who taught me when and how and why to move to stable coins, 6 months ago, a few weeks ago, and a few days ago.

There's dozens more, but only a few I follow regularly. 

Edited by Chaos Commish
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Rough day.  Some thoughts.

When your kids are young...they do stupid things.  They are immature.  This applies to special needs kids.  This applies to gifted kids.  The maturity they display in their early years will pale in comparison to their maturity later in life.

Crypto and BTC in particular for my money are ‘gifted’.  But they are prone to emotional outbursts based on external factors that might set them off.  That’s not a condemnation of their abilities but rather their behavior.

In terms of the SoV argument...it’s very viable to say that BTC is not that at present time.  I’d probably agree. Much like any kid isn’t the best QB/starting pitcher/point guard when measured at an early age.

The properties and ability is there though...the speculation is about navigating the behavioral land mines that will inevitably rear their head on the path upward.

While the ‘Elon tweet’ seems to have been the primary catalyst for the hyper downward motion, the rise of DOGE/SHIBA/Safemoon/Cumrocket and some of the hype around other bells and whistles of this space IMO have distracted from the fact that there is a lot of talent and great innovation happening in this space.  A correction like this not only serves to flush some of that hysteria out of the market...but also refocus on the real application of solving some very complex and economically embedded but faulty fiat systems.

Hang in there.

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Chaos Commish said:

Fwiw, this is a guy I listen to twice a day. He basically covers the daily news, offers opinions and fact based explanations, then does an ask me anything for a few minutes. He's also hilariously drunk from time to time.

If technical analysis is your thing, this guy vets charts with solid accuracy and clarity. He is also the guy who taught me when and how and why to move to stable coins, 6 months ago, a few weeks ago, and a few days ago.

There's dozens more, but only a few I follow regularly. 

Ha...those two are on my daily list too.   A few others I'd add are Coin Bureau, JRNY Crypto, Altcoin Daily, Alex Becker, and CTO Larsson.  

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31 minutes ago, TheDirtyWord said:

Rough day.  Some thoughts.

When your kids are young...they do stupid things.  They are immature.  This applies to special needs kids.  This applies to gifted kids.  The maturity they display in their early years will pale in comparison to their maturity later in life.

Crypto and BTC in particular for my money are ‘gifted’.  But they are prone to emotional outbursts based on external factors that might set them off.  That’s not a condemnation of their abilities but rather their behavior.

In terms of the SoV argument...it’s very viable to say that BTC is not that at present time.  I’d probably agree. Much like any kid isn’t the best QB/starting pitcher/point guard when measured at an early age.

The properties and ability is there though...the speculation is about navigating the behavioral land mines that will inevitably rear their head on the path upward.

While the ‘Elon tweet’ seems to have been the primary catalyst for the hyper downward motion, the rise of DOGE/SHIBA/Safemoon/Cumrocket and some of the hype around other bells and whistles of this space IMO have distracted from the fact that there is a lot of talent and great innovation happening in this space.  A correction like this not only serves to flush some of that hysteria out of the market...but also refocus on the real application of solving some very complex and economically embedded but faulty fiat systems.

Hang in there.

 

 

Well said.  We're at the dawn of a new age in finance.  Much like the dot.com boom, there will be massive speculation and overvaluation and many projects that end with no value.  There will also be the Amazon's and Facebook's and Googles of this new age and if you're willing to have patience and exhibit sound risk management, you can make a lot of money over the next decade finding them.  

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1 hour ago, stbugs said:

Use cases? That’s a nice topic but I’m talking about actual activity right now beyond people investing. The Mavericks are taking DOGE and Tesla took Bitcoin for a month, but NFTs are the only real activity happening, not use cases.

Again, those use cases, if they are actually successful, don’t quell my concerns that I’ve always had over the coin values. Does the THETA network operate the same whether the coin is $0.000001 or $10,000? Are the transaction fees the same regardless of coin value? It just feels like the coin values are out of whack and maybe not healthy. BTC went from an actual currency that people wanted to use to transact for real goods and now because the coin jumped up so high and is so volatile it’s become a store of value, not quite as safe. 

One project I failed to mention earlier is Basic Attention Token (BAT).  The token serves to reward internet users to see advertising.  If you haven't already, I suggest transitioning to the Brave web browser.  It's a seamless move from Chrome and operates in much the same way.  However, you will be rewarded with BAT tokens for viewing/seeing ads.  Meanwhile, your browsing interests are kept private and not sold by the likes of Google or Microsoft.  

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1 hour ago, Captain Cranks said:

One project I failed to mention earlier is Basic Attention Token (BAT).  The token serves to reward internet users to see advertising.  If you haven't already, I suggest transitioning to the Brave web browser.  It's a seamless move from Chrome and operates in much the same way.  However, you will be rewarded with BAT tokens for viewing/seeing ads.  Meanwhile, your browsing interests are kept private and not sold by the likes of Google or Microsoft.  

BAT was featured years ago in this thread. I've been on Brave ever since.

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31 minutes ago, FreeBaGeL said:

How much have you earned?

little over 300 bat, worth 240 bucks. i'm not big on viewing ads for them. it's a solid browser. i use chrome on one monitor for stuff like this, bat on the other when i don't want google tracking me.

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2 hours ago, Captain Cranks said:

Ha...those two are on my daily list too.   A few others I'd add are Coin Bureau, JRNY Crypto, Altcoin Daily, Alex Becker, and CTO Larsson.  

Speaking of George, we're all George... he pounds his 50-25-25 allocation preference very hard. I have kept close to it. But today, as I am regrouping from what i put in usdt, I am turning that into 30-60-10, and the 60 is 50% cardano. I hope everyone is right about this.

Binance and trust wallet running smooth for me, but some exchanges are crashing. I am enjoying this. :)

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3 minutes ago, Chaos Commish said:

Speaking of George, we're all George... he pounds his 50-25-25 allocation preference very hard. I have kept close to it. But today, as I am regrouping from what i put in usdt, I am turning that into 30-60-10, and the 60 is 50% cardano. I hope everyone is right about this.

Binance and trust wallet running smooth for me, but some exchanges are crashing. I am enjoying this. :)

Odd for me to say this on a day when BTC is down half of what everything else is, but I prefer a smaller BTC position too.  I think diversification is key in this space.  These things seem to take turns pumping and who knows which platform will end up being the crown jewel.  Right now my top 10 positions are BTC, ETH, ADA, and DOT at 10% each, BNB, ATOM, and SOL at 7.5% each, and LINK, ONE, and ALGO at 5% each.  

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7 hours ago, Capella said:

Coinbase is down 

 

“don’t worry your money is secure”

 

uhhhh...I didn’t ask :unsure: 

This was kicking around when Coinbase was going public. It's amusing. And accurate. 

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20 hours ago, JB Breakfast Club said:

If I'm willing to buy Ethereum at 3700, I'm surely willing to buy at 3100.

I understand this line of thinking for, like, a stock... "If I liked Amazon enough to buy it at 3300, I should be happy to buy more at 3000", sure. I get that. You've done an analysis of the company and arrived at some value per share you think it's worth when you total up its assets, growth opportunities, liabilities, etc., and if nothing has changed, then a 10% discount is a great deal. If you think it's worth more than the market cap says, buy.

But there's nothing underneath the crypto, no underlying asset, it's a currency exchange. And even then, yeah, I get when it's like "the exchange rate from dollars to pesos is great when I cross the border and can buy something cheaper over there"... like if Mexican Target always has your razors listed for 100 pesos, you can really score when the dollars to pesos rate moves in the right direction. But with crypto everything is priced in dollars and then you convert to coin at the end. No one lists a price as "this thing costs 0.01 bitcoins!" and then you can wait to see how fluctuations hit because the list price doesn't change. Instead the price is always in dollars and then you wait and see what exchange rate you get on the back end of the deal. 

So I'm not sure if the same process holds when a coin price moves vs when a stock price moves.

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2 hours ago, firstseason1987 said:

I understand this line of thinking for, like, a stock... "If I liked Amazon enough to buy it at 3300, I should be happy to buy more at 3000", sure. I get that. You've done an analysis of the company and arrived at some value per share you think it's worth when you total up its assets, growth opportunities, liabilities, etc., and if nothing has changed, then a 10% discount is a great deal. If you think it's worth more than the market cap says, buy.

But there's nothing underneath the crypto, no underlying asset, it's a currency exchange. And even then, yeah, I get when it's like "the exchange rate from dollars to pesos is great when I cross the border and can buy something cheaper over there"... like if Mexican Target always has your razors listed for 100 pesos, you can really score when the dollars to pesos rate moves in the right direction. But with crypto everything is priced in dollars and then you convert to coin at the end. No one lists a price as "this thing costs 0.01 bitcoins!" and then you can wait to see how fluctuations hit because the list price doesn't change. Instead the price is always in dollars and then you wait and see what exchange rate you get on the back end of the deal. 

So I'm not sure if the same process holds when a coin price moves vs when a stock price moves.

It just can’t be compared to stocks at all. It’s not the same ballgame. These things dropped 50% in days. Some have gone up 10000% in the year. They just aren’t comparable. You have to just set a price you like and go for it. 

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, firstseason1987 said:

I understand this line of thinking for, like, a stock... "If I liked Amazon enough to buy it at 3300, I should be happy to buy more at 3000", sure. I get that. You've done an analysis of the company and arrived at some value per share you think it's worth when you total up its assets, growth opportunities, liabilities, etc., and if nothing has changed, then a 10% discount is a great deal. If you think it's worth more than the market cap says, buy.

But there's nothing underneath the crypto, no underlying asset, it's a currency exchange. And even then, yeah, I get when it's like "the exchange rate from dollars to pesos is great when I cross the border and can buy something cheaper over there"... like if Mexican Target always has your razors listed for 100 pesos, you can really score when the dollars to pesos rate moves in the right direction. But with crypto everything is priced in dollars and then you convert to coin at the end. No one lists a price as "this thing costs 0.01 bitcoins!" and then you can wait to see how fluctuations hit because the list price doesn't change. Instead the price is always in dollars and then you wait and see what exchange rate you get on the back end of the deal. 

So I'm not sure if the same process holds when a coin price moves vs when a stock price moves.

As someone who has invested in stocks for over 20 years, I have never done the bolded. Do you think the vast majority of investors "total up its assets, growth opportunities, liabilities..." before deciding to invest?  Do you, yourself, dive into a company's financial statements and calculate your own valuation before investing?  

I think the more likely scenario is you hear or know about XYZ company and put some money in thinking it will grow in value.  "This iphone is a good product. I think Apple stock is going to go up." 

Also, your description of cryptocurrency is very limiting.  Blockchain technology isn't just about digital currency.  Most legitimate crypto utilizes tokens as a way to pay for services.  The underlying value of the currency is determined by estimating how much demand there will be for that service, plus some extrinsic value.  

Edited by Captain Cranks
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13 hours ago, firstseason1987 said:

I understand this line of thinking for, like, a stock... "If I liked Amazon enough to buy it at 3300, I should be happy to buy more at 3000", sure. I get that. You've done an analysis of the company and arrived at some value per share you think it's worth when you total up its assets, growth opportunities, liabilities, etc., and if nothing has changed, then a 10% discount is a great deal. If you think it's worth more than the market cap says, buy.

But there's nothing underneath the crypto, no underlying asset, it's a currency exchange. And even then, yeah, I get when it's like "the exchange rate from dollars to pesos is great when I cross the border and can buy something cheaper over there"... like if Mexican Target always has your razors listed for 100 pesos, you can really score when the dollars to pesos rate moves in the right direction. But with crypto everything is priced in dollars and then you convert to coin at the end. No one lists a price as "this thing costs 0.01 bitcoins!" and then you can wait to see how fluctuations hit because the list price doesn't change. Instead the price is always in dollars and then you wait and see what exchange rate you get on the back end of the deal. 

So I'm not sure if the same process holds when a coin price moves vs when a stock price moves.

This actually isn’t the case.  Yes, all cryptos are priced in dollars.  But they are also priced in BTC.  That’s why you have pairs like ETHBTC and or ADABTC.

There is a metric in the crypto space ‘Bitcoin Dominance’.. it’s a metric that measures BTC market cap against the entire space.  For the better part of the of the last 2+ months, that figure has been falling as more people venture further out on the risk curve with altcoins/memecoins/dogcoins, etc.  Yesterday’s capitulation, didn’t hit BTC as much as it hit altcoins even though ‘the wick’ for BTC plummeted fast.  By the end of the day, the 24 hour drop for BTC was not nearly as pronounced as for other less established crypto protocols (for the most part).

In terms of real world use case, yesterday I initiated a $45K loan using my BTC as collateral.  This AM, the $ was in my fiat bank account.  That’s a tremendous real world use case.  Try getting a loan that fast from your bank.  Literally took me 10 minutes.  Why, because everything was verifiable via the blockchain.

I understand that the first impulse is to look at BTC and crypto in general much like we look at stocks.  We’re programmed to especially when we measure ‘market cap’.  But what you are buying is not shares in a centralized entity, but rather a monetary network that has the potential to service humanity in a much more efficient and verifiable way that the fiat rails that exist today.

Food for thought.

 

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2 hours ago, TheDirtyWord said:

In terms of real world use case, yesterday I initiated a $45K loan using my BTC as collateral.  This AM, the $ was in my fiat bank account.  That’s a tremendous real world use case.  Try getting a loan that fast from your bank.  Literally took me 10 minutes.  Why, because everything was verifiable via the blockchain.

Can you share your experience with this a little more?

I assume this means you can't sell or use your BTC until the loan is paid off, or do you just have to keep enough to cover whatever the balance of the loan is at the time?

Also what happens if the price of BTC drops substantially while the loan is still open?  I guess that is more of a risk for the lender but could they come and force a repayment on the loan if the collateral is no longer worth enough to cover it?

What were the terms of the loan (APR/length)?

Thanks!

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Yesterday taught me it would be wise for me to keep a little stash of stable coins, like Dai or tether, on hand.  Would have been nice to have some cash on hand to buy those dips yesterday.    

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1 minute ago, jb1020 said:

Yesterday taught me it would be wise for me to keep a little stash of stable coins, like Dai or tether, on hand.  Would have been nice to have some cash on hand to buy those dips yesterday.    

Plus you can lend them out for pretty nice interest in the meantime.  My buddy says his USDT is earning 9% on Voyager.  

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Obviously you are going to find differing opinions every time significant movement happens, and I'm seeing the same today regarding optimism vs pessimism.    Regarding the latter, I see a "fake out" scenario referenced and compared to a time in 2020 I believe.  I'm a newb and was wondering what your opinions are about this if you don't mind.  

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5 hours ago, Rushmore said:

Obviously you are going to find differing opinions every time significant movement happens, and I'm seeing the same today regarding optimism vs pessimism.    Regarding the latter, I see a "fake out" scenario referenced and compared to a time in 2020 I believe.  I'm a newb and was wondering what your opinions are about this if you don't mind.  

Ultimately, no one really knows where the market will go from here.  If you take a look at the longer terms charts, you will see that we had been on a parabolic move.  Once the momentum started to fizzle, the big money decided to take profits and shook out a lot of weak, overleveraged retail hands.  Is the selling over?  Personally, I'm not convinced and wouldn't be surprised if we get a retest of $30K.  I'm hoping we get a run back up to $48K so I can de-risk and have more dry powder in case that happens.  That's just a short-term trading view, however.  Long term I'm bullish and have confidence that whatever sales I make in the short term will look bad in about three to five years unless I'm able to buy back the positions at a cheaper price.     

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7 hours ago, FreeBaGeL said:

Can you share your experience with this a little more?

I assume this means you can't sell or use your BTC until the loan is paid off, or do you just have to keep enough to cover whatever the balance of the loan is at the time?

Also what happens if the price of BTC drops substantially while the loan is still open?  I guess that is more of a risk for the lender but could they come and force a repayment on the loan if the collateral is no longer worth enough to cover it?

What were the terms of the loan (APR/length)?

Thanks!

So, I had to put up about 2.4 BTC as collateral priced at about $37k.  So the collateral put up was valued at over $90K once you add in fees as I chose the 50% LTV ratio (vs 33%). During this time, I won’t earn yield on that BTC, but BlockFi’s yield terms past .5 BTC now are pretty unfavorable.  Interest on it was 9.75% as well which I’m aware is not exactly killing it yield wise.  But as a first foray into using crypto as collateral, felt more comfortable with a centralized entity vs a lending protocol like AAVE/Celsius.

I only pay interest for 12 months and then the lump sum is due a year from now.  My rationale being BTC should be higher after this massive dip.  So instead of cashing out 1.2 BTC now and paying short term capital gains on the profit.  I take a loan out on it…if BTC is higher in 12 months, I’m cashing out hopefully a lot less BTC to pay off the principle in May 2022, delaying the tax hit which will then be a long term capital gain.

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16 minutes ago, TheDirtyWord said:

So, I had to put up about 2.4 BTC as collateral priced at about $37k.  So the collateral put up was valued at over $90K once you add in fees as I chose the 50% LTV ratio (vs 33%). During this time, I won’t earn yield on that BTC, but BlockFi’s yield terms past .5 BTC now are pretty unfavorable.  Interest on it was 9.75% as well which I’m aware is not exactly killing it yield wise.  But as a first foray into using crypto as collateral, felt more comfortable with a centralized entity vs a lending protocol like AAVE/Celsius.

I only pay interest for 12 months and then the lump sum is due a year from now.  My rationale being BTC should be higher after this massive dip.  So instead of cashing out 1.2 BTC now and paying short term capital gains on the profit.  I take a loan out on it…if BTC is higher in 12 months, I’m cashing out hopefully a lot less BTC to pay off the principle in May 2022, delaying the tax hit which will then be a long term capital gain.

I didn’t even know this was a thing.  Fascinating.  Thanks for sharing. 

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3 hours ago, TheDirtyWord said:

So, I had to put up about 2.4 BTC as collateral priced at about $37k.  So the collateral put up was valued at over $90K once you add in fees as I chose the 50% LTV ratio (vs 33%). During this time, I won’t earn yield on that BTC, but BlockFi’s yield terms past .5 BTC now are pretty unfavorable.  Interest on it was 9.75% as well which I’m aware is not exactly killing it yield wise.  But as a first foray into using crypto as collateral, felt more comfortable with a centralized entity vs a lending protocol like AAVE/Celsius.

I only pay interest for 12 months and then the lump sum is due a year from now.  My rationale being BTC should be higher after this massive dip.  So instead of cashing out 1.2 BTC now and paying short term capital gains on the profit.  I take a loan out on it…if BTC is higher in 12 months, I’m cashing out hopefully a lot less BTC to pay off the principle in May 2022, delaying the tax hit which will then be a long term capital gain.

If I understand this correctly the back still gets their money back plus interest. You're banking on bitcoin going up enough to cover the interest and fees? 

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, tonydead said:

If I understand this correctly the back still gets their money back plus interest. You're banking on bitcoin going up enough to cover the interest and fees? 

Correct...perhaps more importantly though, when I pay back the principal in 12 months, I’m paying it back with a lot less BTC than it would have cost me to liquidate $45K worth of BTC earlier this week assuming a higher BTC price.

Edited by TheDirtyWord
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1 hour ago, TheDirtyWord said:

Correct...perhaps more importantly though, when I pay back the principal in 12 months, I’m paying it back with a lot less BTC than it would have cost me to liquidate $45K worth of BTC earlier this week assuming a higher BTC price.

Correct. And if BTC crashes......

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Chaos Commish said:

I understand you were more comfortable with BlockFi than Celsius, but I am curious how much better the deal would have been through Celsius?

Loan terms probably a lot better on the 6 month option, but at Celsius, I’m earning 6%+ on my BTC (paid out weekly v monthly), so the net is that the excess BTC at BlockFi which is just earning 2% seemed to be a good place to start.

Also looking into Abra as another source to lend out my BTC.

ETA: Ledn as well…

Edited by TheDirtyWord
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Question for those with way more knowledge than me on BTC. The headlines today say the price of BTC is in decline because of China cracking down on BTC mining. If BTC price depends on the number of coins in circulation, wouldn't any disruption in supply cause the price to go up? Like, when OPEC cuts oil production the price of oil doesn't go down. What am I missing?

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18 minutes ago, ericttspikes said:

Question for those with way more knowledge than me on BTC. The headlines today say the price of BTC is in decline because of China cracking down on BTC mining. If BTC price depends on the number of coins in circulation, wouldn't any disruption in supply cause the price to go up? Like, when OPEC cuts oil production the price of oil doesn't go down. What am I missing?

What we’ve seen over the last week or two, which started with Elon’s comments has been a lot of news that has chipped away at some of the positive narratives that the BTC bull run has been built on.

Ultimately, what never changes is that 900 BTC are mined/day.  This won’t change until May 2024 when the ‘halving’ occurs, at which point, only 450 BTC will be mined/day.  Whether China mines it or some other country, this happens no matter what.

There have been countless times when news hits that China is going to ‘ban Bitcoin’…while I’ve only been in the space for about a year, this has been an ongoing narrative for many years.  A couple of months ago, it was India.  And to be fair, a battle Bitcoin (and crypto in general) will have is when nation states start to direct their considerable resources toward regulating the marketplace.  And given the economic power of China, when they rattle their sabre in this manner, it does cause market movement, but generally its short lived.  At the same time, if there is any country far along the path of developing their own CBDC (Central Bank Digital Currency), it is China.  So I think they see the value of a digital currency, but in typical China fashion, they’d probably prefer a more insular environment to launch whenever that is.

Short answer to your question though is that BTC supply production is a constant.

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3 minutes ago, [icon] said:

What a brutal week or so. Jesus. 

A big silver lining is that most stuff is 50% off what we considered paying (or did pay) a month ago.  The long term fundamentals haven't changed, imo, so if you have new money to deploy you're getting a much better entry point.    

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1 hour ago, Captain Cranks said:

A big silver lining is that most stuff is 50% off what we considered paying (or did pay) a month ago.  The long term fundamentals haven't changed, imo, so if you have new money to deploy you're getting a much better entry point.    

Excellent point and exactly how I’m approaching this. I’m in for the long ride and now seems like the perfect time to plow some more fiat dollars into crypto holdings. 

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, dnurk said:

Excellent point and exactly how I’m approaching this. I’m in for the long ride and now seems like the perfect time to plow some more fiat dollars into crypto holdings. 

Absolutely.  If you believe in something longer term, these are the times to be investing.  Not when something's already run up 10X.  I heard this saying on Youtube the other day:  You can make money in a bull market, but you become rich in a bear market.  Just takes some patience.  

Edited by Captain Cranks
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1 hour ago, Captain Cranks said:

A big silver lining is that most stuff is 50% off what we considered paying (or did pay) a month ago.  The long term fundamentals haven't changed, imo, so if you have new money to deploy you're getting a much better entry point.    

Started building a position in ADA this week...each day's purchase is lower than the day before.  Just glad I didn't buy the whole position at $2.00.  

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