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"Mass Casualty Event" in Las Vegas


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1 minute ago, Warrior said:

Are you really this naïve?

 

Gonna explain or just toss out insults?

FYI, been an ardent gun rights supporter since I was 20 or so. 

Are you naive enough to feel lime our current system works? Or just so hardened as to not care about the 30,000 killed each year regardless?

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3 minutes ago, Koya said:

Gonna explain or just toss out insults?

FYI, been an ardent gun rights supporter since I was 20 or so. 

Are you naive enough to feel lime our current system works? Or just so hardened as to not care about the 30,000 killed each year regardless?

isn't there a thread on the other side for this?

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9 minutes ago, ArbyMelt said:

isn't there a thread on the other side for this?

What then is the purpose of this thread? Simply to mourn, send thoughts and pray? It was one thong when this thread was posted in the direct aftermath of the murders that day.

It's a month past. So again, what's the purpose of this thread? 

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20 minutes ago, Koya said:

What then is the purpose of this thread? Simply to mourn, send thoughts and pray? It was one thong when this thread was posted in the direct aftermath of the murders that day.

It's a month past. So again, what's the purpose of this thread? 

for you to politicize it, of course. 

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2 hours ago, Koya said:

What then is the purpose of this thread? Simply to mourn, send thoughts and pray? It was one thong when this thread was posted in the direct aftermath of the murders that day.

It's a month past. So again, what's the purpose of this thread? 

 For those of us that care about the investigation and any possible information they have found out about this guy.  Plus to hear about any further information about victims.  I have family there and they were incredibly affected by this shooting. 

 I know that doesn't fit your need to muck this up with politics and emotions,  but there is a thread for you to do that in. 

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2 hours ago, Getzlaf15 said:

for you to politicize it, of course. 

Not looking to politicize. Looking to come up with solution already.  Looking to save lives. Looking to preserve rights of gun ownership. But the right to the latter can not and should not fully supersede the former. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Courtjester said:

 For those of us that care about the investigation and any possible information they have found out about this guy.  Plus to hear about any further information about victims.  I have family there and they were incredibly affected by this shooting. 

 I know that doesn't fit your need to muck this up with politics and emotions,  but there is a thread for you to do that in. 

Appreciate the response. 

Appoogies for my infuriation at hundreds more lives lost. I'll leave you all to learn more.

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1 hour ago, tommyboy said:

Probably 750 of those gun deaths are in no gun zone Chicago, but i digress.

 

Outside of the fact that Chicago's gun ban was ruled unconstitutional, it no longer does gun registries and Illinois issues conceal carry licenses you've got a great point

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3 hours ago, Koya said:

I read that over 800 people have been killed by guns since Las Vegas.

 

Glad folks fee their right to own any arm with no reasonable oversight and regulation are so much more important than actually damn lives. Or damned lives,  damned by the callousness of those selfish enough to simply de-prioritize the very lives and freedom (to live without fear of being freakin killed!) of those continually lost to this epidemic. 

If it wasn't guns it would have been a truck or a bomb.

Edited by Weebs210
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3 hours ago, Koya said:

What then is the purpose of this thread? Simply to mourn, send thoughts and pray? It was one thong when this thread was posted in the direct aftermath of the murders that day.

It's a month past. So again, what's the purpose of this thread? 

Not a gun control discussion, that's for sure. It's to discuss this specific event I'm pretty sure. The investigation, etc...

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Just now, T J said:

Not a gun control discussion, that's for sure. It's to discuss this specific event I'm pretty sure. The investigation, etc...

And... oh I don't know... maybe steps that could be taken to prevent such things from happening again?

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3 minutes ago, Limp Ditka said:

And... oh I don't know... maybe steps that could be taken to prevent such things from happening again?

Uhh, somewhere else, sure. It's definitely a valid discussion and I favor some gun control, but this thread, to me anyway, is stand alone   specific to this event. Not real interested in discussing how to avoid it in the future in this thread.

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9 minutes ago, Limp Ditka said:

And... oh I don't know... maybe steps that could be taken to prevent such things from happening again?

I'm sure you can discuss on the politicial board. If you do it here, it will turn into the same banter back and forth from the usual suspects that will devolve into name calling and many pages. If i want to read that, I can go to the other board, which I won't. The political board was the greatest thing ever to happen to the FFA. Let's make it work.

 

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5 hours ago, pantherclub said:

If I heard a pop pop pop and then saw the singer run off stage you can bet your ### I am running no matter how wasted I am.  I guess Cedric the Entertainer was right

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6d50TSkc7ac

 

wow, nice pull

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I know these hotels have major liability issues coming down the pipe, but its still baffling to me that we haven't seen one single photo of Paddock at this hotel. 

If the theory is that he acted completely alone, fine...show us a photo of him lugging a bag in and walking around by himself.  There has to literally be thousands of images of him in and around the casino if he was there for 5 days. 

If the theory is he had help, the public should know who was in on it.  I don't buy the early argument of letting the feds keep a tight lip on things so they can catch these guys.  Anyone that may have been remotely involved has clearly left the country.  

This whole ordeal is either so far botched they have no idea what to say now...or something is being covered up.  We should know something at this point, but we know nothing.  Its beyond aggravating.  I couldn't imagine how pissed I'd be if i actually knew someone shot or killed. 

 

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1 minute ago, jb1020 said:

We should know something at this point, but we know nothing. 

Some people say "well, of course we know nothing ... they're still investigating and keeping it close to the vest".

Now ... I realize there are a lot of differences between the cases. But I compare the LV shootings to the Boston Marathon bombing. Now -- granted -- they had a live suspect to interrogate. Maybe that makes all the difference in the world. But it just seemed like so much was publicly known about the Boston bombers so quickly ... within two weeks, for sure.

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43 minutes ago, tommyboy said:

No offense, it was sarcasm.

Not seeing much sarcasm there. Maybe some exaggeration / hyperbole about the numbers, but when right leaning guy takes a shot at Chicago about gun control it comes off as typical Trump like rhetoric from the uninformed.  

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8 minutes ago, Doug B said:

Some people say "well, of course we know nothing ... they're still investigating and keeping it close to the vest".

Now ... I realize there are a lot of differences between the cases. But I compare the LV shootings to the Boston Marathon bombing. Now -- granted -- they had a live suspect to interrogate. Maybe that makes all the difference in the world. But it just seemed like so much was publicly known about the Boston bombers so quickly ... within two weeks, for sure.

Right after Boston I remember all kind of news outlets combing over web can footage looking for anyone with a back pack.  Speculation was rampant hours after the bombing.  

You can't even get any speculation out of these guys running this investigation. 

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8 minutes ago, Doug B said:

Some people say "well, of course we know nothing ... they're still investigating and keeping it close to the vest".

Now ... I realize there are a lot of differences between the cases. But I compare the LV shootings to the Boston Marathon bombing. Now -- granted -- they had a live suspect to interrogate. Maybe that makes all the difference in the world. But it just seemed like so much was publicly known about the Boston bombers so quickly ... within two weeks, for sure.

what's there to know?  dude was ####### crazy.  probably acted alone.  people are trying to rationalize an insane action.  that's not really possible, but people do it to make themselves feel better.  

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6 minutes ago, jb1020 said:

Right after Boston I remember all kind of news outlets combing over web can footage looking for anyone with a back pack.  Speculation was rampant hours after the bombing.  

You can't even get any speculation out of these guys running this investigation. 

and isn't it better this way?

let the investigation run its course and present the facts when it's all said and done.

 

reddit doxed some poor bastard as the bomber in the days after that event, some other kid committed suicide after getting dragged in to it... all because twitter and social media went berserk vomiting rumor and speculation faster than people could keep up.

Edited by mr. furley
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You also had security camera footage from small local businesses that were available to be combed through for the Boston bombing, cell phone videos shared, etc.

You're asking for security footage from a multi-billion dollar company to get leaked. And there are plenty of cell phone videos that are available here as well, but (fortunately) the suspect was hundreds of yards away from all of those cameras so they don't have any clues to show us. 

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27 minutes ago, DA RAIDERS said:

what's there to know?  dude was ####### crazy.  probably acted alone.  people are trying to rationalize an insane action.  that's not really possible, but people do it to make themselves feel better.  

There's a lot of things to know... If he acted alone and gave a motive, why hasn't the investigation made that statement yet?  If it was that "simple," what other things would they need to be investigating that is causing them to not release this information?

If he acted alone don't you think after a month that the investigators would be able to draw this conclusion, and maybe release some information (i.e. photos of him walking around the casino with bags)?

As time drags on, with no reports from the investigation, it only fuels the fire of speculation/rumors, and rightfully so.  Even a normal person would draw the conclusion that the longer it takes for them to figure this out, and the longer it takes them to release their findings, the higher of a probability that there's more to this than just a solo crazy-guy planning this all out.  

Edited by Buttonhook
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18 minutes ago, Buttonhook said:

There's a lot of things to know... If he acted alone and gave a motive, why hasn't the investigation made that statement yet?  If it was that "simple," what other things would they need to be investigating that is causing them to not release this information?

If he acted alone don't you think after a month that the investigators would be able to draw this conclusion, and maybe release some information (i.e. photos of him walking around the casino with bags)?

As time drags on, with no reports from the investigation, it only fuels the fire of speculation/rumors, and rightfully so.  Even a normal person would draw the conclusion that the longer it takes for them to figure this out, and the longer it takes them to release their findings, the higher of a probability that there's more to this than just a solo crazy-guy planning this all out.  

what is the general public going to get out of knowing any of this information? is Gene at the Citgo going to make a citizens arrest of someone tied to the supposed plot?

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Buttonhook said:

There's a lot of things to know... If he acted alone and gave a motive, why hasn't the investigation made that statement yet?  If it was that "simple," what other things would they need to be investigating that is causing them to not release this information?

If he acted alone don't you think after a month that the investigators would be able to draw this conclusion, and maybe release some information (i.e. photos of him walking around the casino with bags)?

As time drags on, with no reports from the investigation, it only fuels the fire of speculation/rumors, and rightfully so.  Even a normal person would draw the conclusion that the longer it takes for them to figure this out, and the longer it takes them to release their findings, the higher of a probability that there's more to this than just a solo crazy-guy planning this all out.  

it's an act of insanity, the motive is irrelevant.  would you sleep better if you knew it was because, as someone mentioned before, jodie foster spurned his love?  what if he hated country music?  make ya feel better?  eta:  they have announced, that as far as they know, he acted alone.

wtf do pictures of a guy carry luggage matter?  the whole, "how could one guy get all that up to his room?" theorists are really grasping at straws.  ever been to vegas?  lotta conventions there.  vendors bring their wares for the show.  paddock pulls up in a rented van/suv, throws the tweaker kid in valet a $100 and says, take all this #### up to my room.  or he does it himself.  who cares?  

in regards to your last paragraph, i think the opposite is true.  the longer nothing ***SHOCKING*** turns up, the more likely it is that this ####### nut job was just that, a ####### nut job.  sometimes the simplest answer is just that, the answer.  everyone wants ISIS or some such bull#### to come into play, because they just can't wrap their head around some guy just wanted to kill people.

 

Edited by DA RAIDERS
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1 hour ago, mr. furley said:

reddit doxed some poor bastard as the bomber in the days after that event, some other kid committed suicide after getting dragged in to it... all because twitter and social media went berserk vomiting rumor and speculation faster than people could keep up.

Yeah, but I don't mean that info -- I mean what was learned after Tsarnaev as captured, and how quickly that info went public.

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I'm not a consipiracy guy, or think that ISIS had anything to do with this.  My gut tells me it was a crazy guy acting alone, and if the investigation draws that final conclusions and provides evidence to back it up, that's all most people are looking for...  Show us how he got the stuff up there, show us how he did this on his own, take away all of the doubt and conspiracies and paint a clear picture of what happened.  

I realize investigators made some very general statements a short while after the shooting, that they thought he acted alone, but that's certainly not a final conclusion.

If you think the investigators know he acted alone, and have dug nothing else up, why not come out and say that and show us the evidence that supports that? 

 

 

Edited by Buttonhook
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I am reasonably confident that Mandalay Bay staff carried stuff up to that room, and it's on tape. I also understand why MGM would not want to release it, both for corporate liability and "OMG ACCOMPLICE" from the extra-crunchy nutbars in this thread and elsewhere. If you're a dropout who lives on tips, what are you going to do when a high roller starts spreading cash around?

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36 minutes ago, Paulymaggs said:

Because only "buttonhook" from the ffa cares.

Not really.  Crazy how I simply asked why it's taken so long for a final report to come out and suddenly I'm one of those "conspiracy" guys. 

I was just trying to get some people's theories/answers, but I'll take a personal beat-down if that's all you got.

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19 minutes ago, Buttonhook said:

Not really.  Crazy how I simply asked why it's taken so long for a final report to come out and suddenly I'm one of those "conspiracy" guys. 

I was just trying to get some people's theories/answers, but I'll take a personal beat-down if that's all you got.

I agree, shocked at how little info is getting out. This guy was in Vegas from what at least the 25th on and with cameras everywhere no footage? Your questions are justified for sure.

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2 hours ago, Limp Ditka said:

Not seeing much sarcasm there. Maybe some exaggeration / hyperbole about the numbers, but when right leaning guy takes a shot at Chicago about gun control it comes off as typical Trump like rhetoric from the uninformed.  

Sounds like you just want to argue. Have fun with that.

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2 hours ago, Buttonhook said:

If you think the investigators know he acted alone, and have dug nothing else up, why not come out and say that and show us the evidence that supports that? 

again.... why? what does it do?

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3 hours ago, Buttonhook said:

I'm not a consipiracy guy, or think that ISIS had anything to do with this.  My gut tells me it was a crazy guy acting alone, and if the investigation draws that final conclusions and provides evidence to back it up, that's all most people are looking for...  Show us how he got the stuff up there, show us how he did this on his own, take away all of the doubt and conspiracies and paint a clear picture of what happened.  

I realize investigators made some very general statements a short while after the shooting, that they thought he acted alone, but that's certainly not a final conclusion.

If you think the investigators know he acted alone, and have dug nothing else up, why not come out and say that and show us the evidence that supports that? 

 

 

If there was something unique, would it be worth releasing video to help a copy cat carry out another mass shooting?

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55 minutes ago, mr. furley said:

didn't change anything about what happened :shrug: 

I think knowledge about any mass shooting informs future security efforts at public events. Crazies can't be 100% stopped, but they can be 95% mitigated against -- and it's probably possible to chip away at that remaining 5%. Knowledge helps. Just because the past can't be changed ... that doesn't mean knowledge about such events should be treated as irrelevant and not worth pursuing.

An analogy would be the way John F. Kennedy's assassination influenced future security planning and detail for the President, even though Oswald's exact motive has never been conclusively pinned down.

...

My boring theory: Paddock was almost certainly a lone wolf, but the possibility remains open that he had unwitting, tenuous help from one or more people who never had a view of the entire scheme. The slow drip of information is due much more to ongoing liability concerns of various power-wielding stakeholders than it is due to any other one factor.

 

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