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WR N'Keal Harry - CHI (2 Viewers)

I already have a few best ball teams. Just small stakes and something to do when bored for a bit. The slow drafts are fun too. 

 
Andy Dufresne said:
I'm not sure why you're being a jerk about it.

I'm just wondering what you mean by "buy low" in a redraft league.
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I didn't think I was the one being a jerk about it.

I meant "buy low".  I can't really think of a simpler way to put it.  I tried explaining further but that didn't work either, so we appear to have a quandary on our hands.

 
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OK I'll try one more time. @Andy Dufresne

Tyler Boyd went undrafted in my league last year.  I saw him get several targets week one and bought him for a $1 bid. Could have had him off waivers.

He proceeded to have a strong run for a several weeks and I traded him for Kittle.

I bought low.  I sold high.

In a redraft league.

 
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matuski said:
OK I'll try one more time. @Andy Dufresne

Tyler Boyd went undrafted in my league last year.  I saw him get several targets week one and bought him for a $1 bid. Could have had him off waivers.

He proceeded to have a strong run for a several weeks and I traded him for Kittle.

I bought low.  I sold high.

In a redraft league.
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You expect N'Keal Harry to go undrafted in redraft leagues?

 
Andy Dufresne said:
Okay, so then what would "buy low" mean? Draft him earlier than most people would plan on? How much earlier?
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I haven't made any of the buy low posts in reference to Harry, but rather making the point that buying low does exist in redraft.  Which I believe was said to not be the case by a poster somewhere back there.

 
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In regard to drafting a player.

A buy low situation would only occur if you get them later than their production after the fact would merit.

If you draft Harry in the 6th (I have no idea what his ADP is), and he produces like a WR1.. you bought low.

 
matuski said:
I haven't made any of the buy low posts in reference to Harry, but rather making the point that buying low does exist in redraft.  Which I believe was said to not be the case by a poster somewhere back there.
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Well the conversation went like this.

TripItUp: I do like his long term prospects and I suspect he'd be a great buy low AFTER year one.

Mister CIA: No such thing as a buy-low next year.  That's not how highly drafted fantasy players go in dynasty leagues.

Matuski: Reading posts is always important.. he specified redraft/best ball.

So yeah, you were taking about Harry. Even if you don't remember it.

But rest assured, I've written down "buy low, sell high" in my notebook of "New Things I've Learned Just This Week".

 
Andy Dufresne said:
Okay, so then what would "buy low" mean? Draft him earlier than most people would plan on? How much earlier?
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Seriously?  Ironically, it seems you are being obtuse.

Buy low is not some difficult concept to figure out, redraft or dynasty.  Clearly he is saying Harry will start the year out slowly, at which time it would make sense to acquire him on the cheap in anticipation of a better second half.  If he slips in the draft, cool.  If an over eager owner takes him ahead or at market value, he becomes a trade target.  But you already knew that.

 
I wouldn't even think about taking him until the end of the 1st in rookie drafts. Harry is one of the most overrated wide receivers I've ever seen. Albeit, I've only been playing for about 5 years.

 
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cloppbeast said:
I wouldn't even think about taking him until the end of the 1st in rookie drafts. Harry is one of the most overrated wide receivers I've ever seen. Albeit, I've only been playing for about 5 years.
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What makes him overrated?  1st round draft capital, good athleticism, good production, good on tape.  I fail to see any way possible to not at least be indifferent on the guy.  But to say he's overrated, I assume you also think he isn't a good prospect or football player (I could be wrong here), seems like a stretch.  

There's some things I don't personally like about him, or that I'm not entirely sure how to project his outcome, but I do like the guy enough.  

Maybe it's just that he's going 1.02 in most drafts, that makes him overrated because he's highly sought after in a bad class?  

 
3 takeaways from the first Patriots OTA sessions

Excerpt:

Rookie vs. rookie

Two notable, new presences are rookies N’Keal Harry and Joejuan Williams. Both are large for their positions (Harry, a wide receiver, is listed 6’2″, 228 pounds, while Williams, a cornerback, is listed at 6’4″ and 211 pounds).

Each could add a dimension of physicality to the Patriots in the upcoming season. For the moment, it appears they will sharpen their skills competing directly against each other.

During Thursday’s session, Harry beat Williams to the inside on a slant, making the catch (and showing skeptical scouts that he has the ability to separate from coverage). It was a standout play that the 2019 first-round pick commented on afterward.

“He’s a great player. Iron sharpens iron,” Harry told reporters of battling Williams. “He’s making me a better player and hopefully I’m making him a better player as well.”

Williams made a play of his own during an 11-on-11 drill, hauling in an interception (earning a celebration from Belichick).
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According to ESPN's Mike Reiss, Patriots first-round WR N'Keal Harry has lined up at "multiple spots" during OTAs.

Harry has also gotten reps as a punt returner. He's drawn rave reviews from Brian Hoyer, who has served as the Patriots' first-team quarterback with Tom Brady absent. Coach Bill Belichick has also been complementary of Harry, describing the rookie as a "smart" player. With Julian Edelman locked in at slot receiver, Harry will almost certainly play outside for the reigning Super Bowl champs. Still, it's good to see the Arizona State alum showing some versatility.

SOURCE: ESPN.com

May 26, 2019, 10:00 AM ET
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The Athletic's Jeff Howe reports N'Keal Harry "got a lot of work with the starters" on the first day of Patriots minicamp.

As Howe points out, that's "never promised to rookies at this stage of the offseason program" for the Patriots. The Patriots can see the same receiver depth chart everyone else sees, and have concluded there is no reason to make Harry jump through any artificial hoops on his way toward claiming starting duties for Week 1.

SOURCE: The Athletic

Jun 4, 2019, 6:25 PM ET
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Minicamp Blogservations: Damien Harris getting some run

Excerpt:

Speaking of Harry, the physical ability is clearly evident. He possesses strong hands and has shown the ability to make difficult catches under duress, much in the way his talents were described during the pre-draft process. However, he remains very much a work in progress in terms of his route-running based on the amount of instruction he receives during practice. Many passes in his direction appear to be slightly off target, which is likely the result of the rookie not always being exactly where he is supposed to be. McDaniels worked with him and Brady in a small group each day. On Thursday the OC was seen correcting his route on a couple of occasions, but on one it appeared he directed the adjustments toward Brady after a pass sailed off his back hand and he turned in off a quick-hitting hitch route. It will be interesting to watch Harry’s improvements in this area once training camp begins in July.
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9 unanswered questions after Patriots minicamp

Excerpt:

Can top pick N’Keal Harry get up to speed enough to be a top-3 receiver?:

One thing is quite certain, minicamp showed that Josh McDaniels, Brady and the Patriots are investing plenty of time, energy and reps into getting their first-round wide receiver as acclimated as possible as quickly as possible to life in the New England offense. Harry had an up-and-down camp. He had some nice plays and some ugly drops. He got plenty of route running advice, including from Deion Branch. In an ideal situation Harry will be a top-3 target from day one in his Patriots career, but young receivers almost never work out in ideal fashion in the New England passing attack.
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Winners and losers from Patriots minicamp

Excerpt:

WINNER: N’Keal Harry, WR


Harry drew coverage from Gilmore during minicamp, which is something of a promotion. During an OTA practice, Harry was playing against the second-team defense, beating rookie cornerback Joejuan Williams, among others.

In minicamp, the Patriots seem intent on seeing if Harry could be equally dominant against one of the league’s best cornerbacks. Harry could not. But that doesn’t mean his spring session was a failure. The fact that he drew coverage from Gilmore was a compliment. Harry will get better at learning how to beat Gilmore’s blanketing coverage. (And even if Harry doesn’t, he’d still join the ranks of Davante Adams, Keenan Allen, Brandin Cooks and DeAndre Hopkins, all of who have been stymied by Gilmore.)

Harry’s promotion is notable — even if he struggled.
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Harry sucked against Gilmore, but he's a winner of the mini-camp. Got it.

 
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cloppbeast said:
Harry sucked against Gilmore, but he's a winner of the mini-camp. Got it.
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Yeah that smells like spin to me; hoping so much that Harry would do well vs Gilmore, but since he didn't hes a winner for getting the opportunity to go against Gilmore?

If I remember correctly, one of the biggest concerns for Harry was his ability to separate from good CB coverage. He has time to develop, but if he is going to be the WR1 in this offense he will be facing opposing teams' top CBs capable of "blanket coverage." It seems, so far, that this concern is valid.

 
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Julian Edelman the mentor: Super Bowl MVP helps N'Keal Harry

Good information on the mentoring that Harry is receiving from Edelman. I also don’t think that it is that big of a deal that Harry is struggling against Gilmore in minicamp based on Gilmore’s track record of coverage on some of the best receivers in the NFL. This excerpt from the linked article provides a solid assessment of the level that Gilmore is playing at:

Revis vs. Gilmore: Having the chance to watch Darrelle Revis every day in 2014 spring practices/training camp was a treat because of his excellence, and Stephon Gilmore is approaching that level, if not surpassing it. The biggest difference: Gilmore is so soft-spoken, he doesn't generate the same level of media attention/hype as Revis.
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Don’t get me wrong  -  there are legitimate concerns on N’Keal Harry’s ability to generate separation against top NFL cornerback,  but I’ll take the glass half full approach and agree that it is a good sign that the Patriots elevated Harry to compete against Gilmore after it was reported that he was beating the second team defense. I think we can all agree that it would have been pretty remarkable for the reports from minicamp to have come out with descriptions of Harry roasting Gilmore at this stage of his development.

 
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Faust said:
Don’t get me wrong  -  there are legitimate concerns on N’Keal Harry’s ability to generate separation against top NFL cornerback,  but I’ll take the glass half full approach and agree that it is a good sign that the Patriots elevated Harry to compete against Gilmore after it was reported that he was beating the second team defense. I think we can all agree that it would have been pretty remarkable for the reports from minicamp to have come out with descriptions of Harry roasting Gilmore at this stage of his development.
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I just thought it was funny he was called a winner for getting to go against the first team. Doesnt every team put its 1st round pick with the starters?

I can agree with what you said. Close to, but not quite a nothing-burger. It would have been something for Harry to dominate a good CB in his first mini camp. But doing poorly - for those hoping he's a transcendant talent, this is a strike against that; fitting the narrative he cant get open against good defenders.

 
Faust said:
Julian Edelman the mentor: Super Bowl MVP helps N'Keal Harry

Good information on the mentoring that Harry is receiving from Edelman. I also don’t think that it is that big of a deal that Harry is struggling against Gilmore in minicamp based on Gilmore’s track record of coverage on some of the best receivers in the NFL. This excerpt from the linked article provides a solid assessment of the level that Gilmore is playing at:

Don’t get me wrong  -  there are legitimate concerns on N’Keal Harry’s ability to generate separation against top NFL cornerback,  but I’ll take the glass half full approach and agree that it is a good sign that the Patriots elevated Harry to compete against Gilmore after it was reported that he was beating the second team defense. I think we can all agree that it would have been pretty remarkable for the reports from minicamp to have come out with descriptions of Harry roasting Gilmore at this stage of his development.
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100% agree. I'd expect any rookie to struggle

 
According to Ben Volin of the Boston Globe, Patriots first-round WR N'Keal Harry "didn't have the best minicamp."

Per Volin, Harry struggled to get open against Stephon Gilmore and also made "a handful of mental mistakes" including lining up in the wrong spot. Struggling against a first-team All-Pro in Gilmore is understandable, though it's worth noting that Harry's separation skills, or lack thereof, were the biggest knock on him coming out of Arizona State. The good news is that Harry received a ton of reps this offseason and still has plenty of time to learn the intricacies of Josh McDaniels' offense before the regular season gets under way. He's a good bet to start opposite Julian Edelman in Week 1.

SOURCE: Boston Globe

Jun 16, 2019, 10:32 AM ET
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Being a fantasy-worthy starter (WR36 or better) in a rookie year is quite a feat.  It's only happened 26 times in the last 10 years (2-WR1's, 11-WR2's, 13-WR3's)  Some are starters from week 1, while others have to split time with or surpass veterans throughout the year.  For 2019, if I had to pick one rookie WR to reach FF starter status, it is Harry.  Talent + opportunity + situation = success.  Harry checks all 3 boxes.  Of the other rookie WR's, I don't see any that check all 3.

Marquise Brown - Lamar Jackson & decent TE's, enough said

Deebo Samuel - limited volume with pass-catching RB's and stud TE

AJ Brown - Mariota doesn't have it in him to produce 2 FF WR's, so Corey Davis gets the nod

Mecole Hardman - let's see how the Tyreek situation plays out

JJ Arcega-Whiteside - too many options at WR & TE

Parris Campbell - my money is on Funchess keeping the starting gig long enough to limit his volume

Andy Isabella - behind Fitz and Kirk; maybe next year

DK Metcalf - he is my second choice behind Harry

Diontae Johnson - lotta competition for targets after Juju

I'll stop there, as I don't see any other rookies worth mentioning.  New England hasn't used their first pick on a WR since Terry Glenn in 1996 - the result was 90/1132/6.  While I certainly don't see Harry with 90 catches, he does offer great TD potential, and may very well lead the team in this department.

 
Josh Gordon is now working out with Brady. A few weeks ago it was Harry. That fact that a little news that Harry is struggling would explain why the tide shifted to Gordon. This can’t be good news for Harry. Apparently he’s struggling with something.....

Tex

 
From some of what I read this could have easily been spun as a positive story. He excelled so much in rookie minicamps that they plugged him in as the WR1 against Gilmore. The fact that struggled against a top 5 corner isn’t a concern.

Also I think Gilmore had some positive things to say about Harry- he said he was really strong and will be able to push CBs around.

 
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BigTex said:
Josh Gordon is now working out with Brady. A few weeks ago it was Harry. That fact that a little news that Harry is struggling would explain why the tide shifted to Gordon. This can’t be good news for Harry. Apparently he’s struggling with something.....

Tex
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I will surely temper my expectations for Harry if Gordon is allowed to play.  For now though, I will continue to see Harry starting opposite Julian in week 1.  Gordon is likely his only threat for a starting role.

 
BigTex said:
Josh Gordon is now working out with Brady. A few weeks ago it was Harry. That fact that a little news that Harry is struggling would explain why the tide shifted to Gordon. This can’t be good news for Harry. Apparently he’s struggling with something.....

Tex
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Or maybe Brady isn't running a summer long B&B and training camp for all his receivers. 

There haven't been any reports of him working out with Edelman, Dorsett, Inman, and D Thomas. 

 
Andy Dufresne said:
Or maybe Brady isn't running a summer long B&B and training camp for all his receivers. 

There haven't been any reports of him working out with Edelman, Dorsett, Inman, and D Thomas. 
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Your second part is my reason for concern. Brady worked out with Harry, news comes out that he’s struggling now Brady is working out with Josh. There seems to be a connection there. I could be 100% wrong but I’m definitely cooling on Harry for this year. If Josh and Harry are slotted to work the same position then there’s no doubt in my mind there should be some concern there.

Tex

 
BigTex said:
Your second part is my reason for concern. Brady worked out with Harry, news comes out that he’s struggling now Brady is working out with Josh. There seems to be a connection there. I could be 100% wrong but I’m definitely cooling on Harry for this year. If Josh and Harry are slotted to work the same position then there’s no doubt in my mind there should be some concern there.

Tex
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It's one of my inventions.  I call it the "jump to conclusions" mat.

 
TheWinz said:
Being a fantasy-worthy starter (WR36 or better) in a rookie year is quite a feat.  It's only happened 26 times in the last 10 years (2-WR1's, 11-WR2's, 13-WR3's)  Some are starters from week 1, while others have to split time with or surpass veterans throughout the year.  For 2019, if I had to pick one rookie WR to reach FF starter status, it is Harry.  Talent + opportunity + situation = success.  Harry checks all 3 boxes.  Of the other rookie WR's, I don't see any that check all 3.

Marquise Brown - Lamar Jackson & decent TE's, enough said

Deebo Samuel - limited volume with pass-catching RB's and stud TE

AJ Brown - Mariota doesn't have it in him to produce 2 FF WR's, so Corey Davis gets the nod

Mecole Hardman - let's see how the Tyreek situation plays out

JJ Arcega-Whiteside - too many options at WR & TE

Parris Campbell - my money is on Funchess keeping the starting gig long enough to limit his volume

Andy Isabella - behind Fitz and Kirk; maybe next year

DK Metcalf - he is my second choice behind Harry

Diontae Johnson - lotta competition for targets after Juju

I'll stop there, as I don't see any other rookies worth mentioning.  New England hasn't used their first pick on a WR since Terry Glenn in 1996 - the result was 90/1132/6.  While I certainly don't see Harry with 90 catches, he does offer great TD potential, and may very well lead the team in this department.
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I agree with your narrative here on all these guys except JJAW, I think he will make an impact year 1. But I'm just curious it's no big deal but what is the difference between situation and opportunity? I think I use those words interchangeably.

 
Gordon + Harry Fitz + Edelman (in the slot) =  best starting WR corps in 2019 NFL. Put that it your plizzo for a hot minute.

Then ask yourself, what does that make Tomunga Brady in 2019?

 
LawFitz said:
Gordon + Harry Fitz + Edelman (in the slot) =  best starting WR corps in 2019 NFL. Put that it your plizzo for a hot minute.

Then ask yourself, what does that make Tomunga Brady in 2019?
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Small chance it works out that way. No guarantee Gordon plays or N'Keal is any good. Plus, who in the hell is Harry Fitz?

 
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LawFitz said:
Gordon + Harry Fitz + Edelman (in the slot) =  best starting WR corps in 2019 NFL. Put that it your plizzo for a hot minute.

Then ask yourself, what does that make Tomunga Brady in 2019?
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There’s so much good stuff in this post

 
barackdhouse said:
I agree with your narrative here on all these guys except JJAW, I think he will make an impact year 1. But I'm just curious it's no big deal but what is the difference between situation and opportunity? I think I use those words interchangeably.
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Opportunity is the chance to be on the field instead of on the bench - perfect case was Larry Johnson.  We all knew LJ was gonna blow up, but he was stuck behind Priest Holmes for 1.5 seasons.  Can't score fantasy points from the bench.

Situation takes into account the talent of QB and surrounding players, and the team's overall mindset.  Are they a run-heavy team or pass-heavy?  Is the QB a pocket passer, or a runner?  Do they rely on RB's and TE's more/less in the passing game?  Perfect case for this is Marquise Brown.  His opportunity is great - he will likely be a starter from day one.  But his situation couldn't be any worse.  Lamar started the last 7 games for the Ravens.  During that time, he rushed 119 times for 558 yards and 4 TD's.  His top WR was Willie Snead, who caught 17 passes for 203 yards and 0 TD's (good for WR76).  If you didn't realize just how much Lamar ran, here are some mind-boggling stats - he had 27 LESS completions than rushes.  He averaged under 160 yds passing and .7 TD's.  Being the WR1 in BAL is like saying your the WR3 on many other teams.

 
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