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WR DK Metcalf, SEA (1 Viewer)

JohnnyU said:
I would definitely argue taking Metcalf over Brown.
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Brad Kelly‏ @BradKelly17

Opposing defenses didn’t “prioritize” AJ Brown over DK Metcalf. Metcalf was covered by the opposing team’s best CB nearly every game. Meanwhile, the amount of times Brown was given a free release was infuriating to me as a coach.

Brad Kelly added, Replying to @Cole_Kev

Yeah, my biggest concern is, admittedly, that both his team and opposing defenses prioritized AJ Brown over him when both were healthy. At least a bit of cause for concern. If price increases to where I think it will after he tests as I think he will at the combine... woof.

6:09 AM - 30 Jan 2019 from Portsmouth, RI

 
The Athletic's Dane Brugler ranks Ole Miss WR D.K. Metcalf as his No. 1 wide receiver.

Brugler writes that Metcalf "has the freakish qualities to be an enforcer wideout" thanks to his ability to create "forceful releases to win early, using a powerful hand swipe to gain leverage vs. press." The 6-foot-4, 230-pound Ole Miss product was sidelined by a neck injury in mid-October, but was cleared for football activities near the end of January. In his late January mock, The Draft Network's Kyle Crabbs projected the Raiders to select Metcalf with the No. 4 selection on Day 1. That may be a bit on the high side when push comes to shove, but he's a first-round talent regardless.

Source: The Athletic 

Feb 1 - 12:58 PM
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I got him #1 as long as he goes to a team with an above average QB. Odds are not in his favor unless the bad teams shy away from the neck injury.

 
JohnnyU said:
I don't get it.  He doesn't have the college resume and he's been labeled "raw', and he has route running issues.
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he has been labeled as raw because he doesnt have an extensive college resume. he was considered the wr1 before his injury and when his neck checks out I imagine he will return there. 

his route running is fine. he has the tools needed to run an extensive route tree, especially a rare combination of size and acceleration. im.not sure where you read this but everything I am reading says he has good route running ability, positions his body well, and sells his breaks. 

He actually catches with his hands. that's a huge plus 

His speed is excellent. this class has been labeled "a lot of tall, slow wrs." Metcalf is one who does not fit this category

I know you are wishing Harmon to be the wr1 in this class considering what you gave up for him, but Metcalf is head and shoulders above him IMO

 
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Dr. Dan said:
he has been labeled as raw because he doesnt have an extensive college resume. he was considered the wr1 before his injury and when his neck checks out I imagine he will return there. 
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He had 646 and 7 and 569 and 5 the last 2 years, yuck and I don't think his neck injury had anything to do with the former.  The fact remains that he doesn't have the college stats to back up his ranking and he does have route running deficiencies. 

 
There's risk. No doubt about it but when I see his highlights, I can see he's just Andre Johnson/Josh Gordon ridiculous. The size speed ratio is top of the line. Nope, he's not a polished WR. That's the risk. can he become that. He's got the family history of the Metcalf name.

By the way. josh Gordon college stats: 42-714-7 TDs in 22 games . DK: 67-1228-14 in 21 games, injured in 2 different seasons. 

 
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JohnnyU said:
He had 646 and 7 and 569 and 5 the last 2 years, yuck and I don't think his neck injury had anything to do with the former.  The fact remains that he doesn't have the college stats to back up his ranking and he does have route running deficiencies. 
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Of course he isnt a sure thing. no one in this draft is. But his combination of speed and size makes him more unique than most of the other wrs in this class, and certainly those at the top 

ETA: regarding you criticizing his route running abilities, a simple good search (metcalf route running)says otherwise

 
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lod001 said:
There's risk. No doubt about it but when I see his highlights, I can see he's just Andre Johnson/Josh Gordon ridiculous. The size speed ratio is top of the line. Nope, he's not a polished WR. That's the risk. can he become that. He's got the family history of the Metcalf name.

By the way. josh Gordon college stats: 42-714-7 TDs in 22 games . DK: 67-1228-14 in 21 games, injured in 2 different seasons. 
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And outside of one weird year when Josh Gordon got a crazy target share and  tons of screens, he’s been nothing more than decent.

 
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Ilov80s said:
And outside of one weird year when Josh Gordon got a crazy target share and  tons of screens, he’s been a noting more than decent.
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Because he's got issues and threw his career away. If he didn't have issues, that showed what he was capable of.

 
Ilov80s said:
And outside of one weird year when Josh Gordon got a crazy target share and  tons of screens, he’s been a noting more than decent.
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Yea but let's not act like their was not other things at play. Honestly don't know a WR in history who could have excelled under his circumstances.

 
lod001 said:
Because he's got issues and threw his career away. If he didn't have issues, that showed what he was capable of.
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menobrown said:
Yea but let's not act like their was not other things at play. Honestly don't know a WR in history who could have excelled under his circumstances.
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I acknowledge that but let’s also acknowledge there have been other players without drug issues who have had weird outlier season like that.

 
Ilov80s said:
I acknowledge that but let’s also acknowledge there have been other players without drug issues who have had weird outlier season like that.
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It's not relevant to me in anyway unless you argument is Josh Gordon was not supremely talented. If that's your take I'll politely agree to disagree.

 
menobrown said:
It's not relevant to me in anyway unless you argument is Josh Gordon was not supremely talented. If that's your take I'll politely agree to disagree.
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Josh Gordon was a great size speed combo. I’m not sold he was “supremely talented” when it comes to pro football.

 
JohnnyU said:
really?  Please link otherwise.
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I thought I was pretty clear stating if you did a google search, even told you what to search...

Wins routes early with dynamic hand and footwork in his release. Knows how to work his route stem to manipulate the corner, establish leverage and sell his breaks. Hasn’t be tasked with running an overly expansive route tree but the traits are present to be an outstanding route-runner and separator in the NFL. Rare acceleration for his size and springs explosively out of his breaks. Understands where zone coverage is soft and adjusts. Alters his tempo effectively

Regardless of the route, Metcalf explodes from the line with power. When jammed, he will either used hand quickness, or raw power to throw the corner away. After, during his route, he cuts sharp, precise angles, giving his quarterback an open target to find him.

Metcalf missed half the season with a neck injury, but if he’s healthy, he has strong potential. There’s a huge catch radius at 6’4,” explosive downfield speed and burst, and signs of advanced route-running in his game.

 
JohnnyU said:
The Gordon thing is finally over.
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Oh yeah and I bailed a couple years ago when he returned. It’s unfair to really compare him to DK but my point would be natural gifts don’t mean much without on field production. 

 
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Dr. Dan said:
I thought I was pretty clear stating if you did a google search, even told you what to search...

Wins routes early with dynamic hand and footwork in his release. Knows how to work his route stem to manipulate the corner, establish leverage and sell his breaks. Hasn’t be tasked with running an overly expansive route tree but the traits are present to be an outstanding route-runner and separator in the NFL. Rare acceleration for his size and springs explosively out of his breaks. Understands where zone coverage is soft and adjusts. Alters his tempo effectively

Regardless of the route, Metcalf explodes from the line with power. When jammed, he will either used hand quickness, or raw power to throw the corner away. After, during his route, he cuts sharp, precise angles, giving his quarterback an open target to find him.

Metcalf missed half the season with a neck injury, but if he’s healthy, he has strong potential. There’s a huge catch radius at 6’4,” explosive downfield speed and burst, and signs of advanced route-running in his game.
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well, one thing that you cannot refute is his lack of college stats.  Also, you cannot refute his lack of a route tree.

 
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JohnnyU said:
well, one thing that you cannot refute is his lack of college stats.  Also, you cannot refute his lack of a route tree.
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Yes, his college stats are not as impressive as others in his class. Part of that is he missed almost half of the season with a neck injury. Before he was hurt he was on pace for almost 1000 yards and 9 scores.

The way he was used in college is not reflective of someone with the full route tree, but I see that as a potential to develop for him. When I watch him I don't see a lack of talent that would result in the inability to develop a complete route tree

 
Dr. Dan said:
Yes, his college stats are not as impressive as others in his class. Part of that is he missed almost half of the season with a neck injury. Before he was hurt he was on pace for almost 1000 yards and 9 scores.

The way he was used in college is not reflective of someone with the full route tree, but I see that as a potential to develop for him. When I watch him I don't see a lack of talent that would result in the inability to develop a complete route tree
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I'm not willing to bet a top 3 pick on that.

 
Bleacher Report's Matt Miller says Ole Miss WR D.K. Metcalf is "looking like a first-round lock" if his medicals go well at the NFL Combine.

Metcalf (6'4/230) has the freakish traits -- Daniel Jeremiah compared them to Josh Gordon -- but teams need to feel comfortable with his medicals before investing a first-round pick on him. However, Adam Schefter did report that Metcalf has been cleared for football activities, which indicates that his medicals should turn out good enough. Only Oklahoma WR Marquise Brown is currently ahead of Metcalf on Miller's rankings, while The Athletic's Dane Brugler has Metcalf as WR1.

Source: Bleacher Report 

Feb 4 - 7:36 PM
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NFL Draft 2019: Who Are This Year's Biggest Bust Candidates?

Excerpt:

WR D.K. Metcalf, Mississippi

Like Anderson, Mississippi wideout D.K. Metcalf has the potential to not pan out at the next level because of injury. His 2018 season was cut short after just seven games by a severe neck injury that reportedly required surgery. Obviously, medical checks at the combine will be critical.

Metcalf is also a raw prospect who played just 21 games in three seasons at Ole Miss. As we've seen in recent years, even the most gifted raw receivers, such as John Ross and Corey Coleman, can struggle to adapt to the NFL.

However, Metcalf is supremely gifted. He compares to Josh Gordon in terms of physical potential, and some team is going to gamble on him sooner than later come April.
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Just watched tape of Metcalf. I’m a believer. He’s awesome and I think my favorite WR in the draft now. I like Brown too.

 
JohnnyU said:
well, one thing that you cannot refute is his lack of college stats.  Also, you cannot refute his lack of a route tree.
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These are the things that worried me. Then I watched some of his highlights. He looks like the part of a guy who could become a fantasy WR1. He also needs to stay healthy obviously 

 
Gandalf said:
Just watched tape of Metcalf. I’m a believer. He’s awesome and I think my favorite WR in the draft now. I like Brown too.
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I found it funny when I watched Metcalf, I saw more AJ Brown Highlights, and when I watched AJ Brown, I saw some Metcalf ones too.  Just a bit weird.  

 
Gandalf said:
So curious to see how fast Metcalf tests at the combine. 
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What do you like best about Metcalf? You've mentioned him or Jacobs 1.1

I like him but I am generally a conservative drafter, so I'm definitely concerned about his the risk that comes with him.

 
Dr. Dan said:
What do you like best about Metcalf? You've mentioned him or Jacobs 1.1

I like him but I am generally a conservative drafter, so I'm definitely concerned about his the risk that comes with him.
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Just watching his acceleration and how quickly he separates from defensive backs. And he catches with his hands from what I can tell. And he’s got WR1 height and weight. No WR has his upside in this draft. I swing for the fences with rookies. They are risky anyway so I try to hit homeruns.

 
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Faust said:
NFL Draft 2019: Who Are This Year's Biggest Bust Candidates?

Excerpt:
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I;'m not sure I agree wtih this at all.

1. Injuries. 1 neck injury. I'm not exactly clear on the details of what this was, but if it required surgery it's possible it was a fracture, maybe even a spondylosisthesis. Unless he had neural involvement, I'm not worried at all about what this means for his future injury risk

2. Adapting to the next level, and comparing him to John Ross. Sure, Ross has struggled but this is well documented that his heart wasn't in it. I remember reading an article prior to last season where it said his rookie year he was super depressed and down, stopped trying. There's more to it there than just a gifted athlete not catching on. Mental problems are a major hurdle.

 
Gandalf said:
Just watching his acceleration and how quickly he separates from defensive backs. And he catches with his hands from what I can tell. And he’s got WR1 height and weight. No WR has his upside in this draft. I swing for the fences with rookies. They are risky anyway so I try to hit homeruns. 
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Thanks. I am excited for his combine. No one else in this class has the size and speed combination that Metcalf has. That is why, to me, he is so intriguing. This class is loaded with a bunch of WRs who have the size but questionable speed and/or hands. The only negative to Metcalf is his lack of production at the college level. Similar to Jacobs IMO. Both of these guys measure up pretty solid to me and either one could be 1.1 depending where they land. I am struggling with AJ Brown or Metcalf as my WR1. Where they land will be a big deal- I feel like that's all I'm writing these days.

I am desperately hoping the Jets or Browns take him, as well as a few other teams, but those 2 spots would be ideal IMO

 
NFL Network's Daniel Jeremiah calls Ole Miss WR D.K. Metcalf an "athletic freak."

That he is. Listed at 6-foot-4 and 230 pounds, Metcalf is expected to have excellent measurables if he is healthy (neck) -- he has been cleared for football activities. Jeremiah compared Metcalf to Josh Gordon on the field, and Bleacher Report's Matt Miller said Metcalf is "looking like a first-round lock." As a junior, Metcalf only appeared in seven games, but he was very efficient and explosive on a per-target basis (13.9 YPT). Even with the low-end production and medical question marks, Metcalf is shaping up as a top-30 overall player with the upside of landing inside the top-10.

Source: NFL on Twitter 

Feb 10 - 6:51 PM
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Dr. Dan said:
Thanks. I am excited for his combine. No one else in this class has the size and speed combination that Metcalf has. That is why, to me, he is so intriguing. This class is loaded with a bunch of WRs who have the size but questionable speed and/or hands. The only negative to Metcalf is his lack of production at the college level. Similar to Jacobs IMO. Both of these guys measure up pretty solid to me and either one could be 1.1 depending where they land. I am struggling with AJ Brown or Metcalf as my WR1. Where they land will be a big deal- I feel like that's all I'm writing these days.

I am desperately hoping the Jets or Browns take him, as well as a few other teams, but those 2 spots would be ideal IMO
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I think the lack of production issue is a risk but part of it was he was hurt. When Metcalf was healthy he produced. And when Brown and Metcalf were both on the field, Metcalf was more productive by some metrics (5 vs 4 TDs). I would love Metcalf on the Browns. Or Indy. Jets could be good too but would prefer an already high powered offense but I like Darnold.

 
Dr. Dan said:
I;'m not sure I agree wtih this at all.

1. Injuries. 1 neck injury. I'm not exactly clear on the details of what this was, but if it required surgery it's possible it was a fracture, maybe even a spondylosisthesis. Unless he had neural involvement, I'm not worried at all about what this means for his future injury risk

2. Adapting to the next level, and comparing him to John Ross. Sure, Ross has struggled but this is well documented that his heart wasn't in it. I remember reading an article prior to last season where it said his rookie year he was super depressed and down, stopped trying. There's more to it there than just a gifted athlete not catching on. Mental problems are a major hurdle.
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The Ross comp is dumb. They are different players. Other than both are quick and fast

 
Zyphros said:
The comparison is based on their lack of route running prowess and finesse.  
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Ah okay. Still think that’s a bad comp for a variety of reasons but I guess ? about route running is a knock on Metcalf. 

FWIW, one draft site had this to say about Metcalf route running:

“Routes – Wins routes early with dynamic hand and footwork in his release. Knows how to work his route stem to manipulate the corner, establish leverage and sell his breaks. Hasn’t be tasked with running an overly expansive route tree but the traits are present to be an outstanding route-runner and separator in the NFL. Rare acceleration for his size and springs explosively out of his breaks. Understands where zone coverage is soft and adjusts. Alters his tempo effectively.”

https://thedraftnetwork.com/2018/12/05/2019-nfl-draft-player-profile-d-k-metcalf/

 
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Zyphros said:
The comparison is based on their lack of route running prowess and finesse.  
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Also and I don’t want to derail this thread but I have to say the John Ross hate in fantasy seems a little off too after this year. He was injured and was targeted heavily in the red zone this year. Not terrible as a WR3/4. His burst and ability to get open is there too. I’m not writing him off yet either. 

 
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Back to Metcalf, he wasn’t asked to run the full route tree. How concerned should we be about that? What examples of elite athletic WRs are there who fit a similar mold? I remember people being concerned about this with Watkins. That’s one example. Who else comes to mind? 

 
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Gandalf said:
Also and I don’t want to derail this thread but I have to say the John Ross hate in fantasy seems a little off too after this year. He was injured and was targeted heavily in the red zone this year. Not terrible as a WR3/4. His burst and ability to get open is there too. I’m not writing him off yet either. 
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Right.  Even DHB, Ted Ginn and Corey Patterson have been able to play a role on offense. Just nowhere near the expectations at their draft stock. 

I have no idea if DK is looking at that type of career, but from what little I've seen, I'm not taking him top 3 in this draft. I'll need to look closer at him and a few others. 

 
-OZ- said:
Right.  Even DHB, Ted Ginn and Corey Patterson have been able to play a role on offense. Just nowhere near the expectations at their draft stock. 

I have no idea if DK is looking at that type of career, but from what little I've seen, I'm not taking him top 3 in this draft. I'll need to look closer at him and a few others. 
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After this conversation, I’m more convinced than ever that landing spot is going to dictate my 1.01. I like Metcalf a heck of a lot more than a fringe starting fantasy WR ( guys mentioned above) but let’s see where everyone falls out. And the combine. Will be nice to have more data given all the questions surrounding all these guys.This also makes 1.01 more valuable to me because you can pick the best combo of talent and landing spot and there might not be that many great situations exiting the real NFL draft. At 1.01 you just need one guy to land in a good spot.

 
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Gandalf said:
After this conversation, I’m more convinced than ever that landing spot is going to dictate my 1.01. I like Metcalf a heck of a lot more than a fringe starting fantasy WR ( guys mentioned above) but let’s see where everyone falls out. And the combine. Will be nice to have more data given all the questions surrounding all these guys.This also makes 1.01 more valuable to me because you can pick the best combo of talent and landing spot and there might not be that many great situations exiting the real NFL draft. At 1.01 you just need one guy to land in a good spot.
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Right. The combination of wr coach and QB will be key for Metcalf. 

 
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