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Admit it - Browns got it 100% right in the draft with Mayfield/Chubb (1 Viewer)

Bronco Billy said:
I was saying the same thing and don’t recall taking tons of heat for it.  Maybe you’re a lightning rod?
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Probably because I was poopooing on Darnold while others were loving his potential

Bojang0301 said:
Chubb was a good pick, but if he would have taken any other back in the 2nd round (sans Ronald Jones) he would have a similar talent.
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good lord, no.

chubb is a generational talent. he was barkley before barkley. preinjury, chubb was unstoppable, and he's basically that once again.

georgia had the luxury of splitting carries between he and michel, and honestly, it helped chubb recover properly and kept him fresh

 
Bronco Billy said:
I was saying the same thing and don’t recall taking tons of heat for it.  Maybe you’re a lightning rod?
Click to expand...
Probably because I was poopooing on Darnold while others were loving his potential

Bojang0301 said:
Chubb was a good pick, but if he would have taken any other back in the 2nd round (sans Ronald Jones) he would have a similar talent.
Click to expand...
good lord, no.

chubb is a generational talent. he was barkley before barkley. preinjury, chubb was unstoppable, and he's basically that once again.

georgia had the luxury of splitting carries between he and michel, and honestly, it helped chubb recover properly and kept him fresh

 
Bronco Billy said:
I was saying the same thing and don’t recall taking tons of heat for it.  Maybe you’re a lightning rod?
Click to expand...
Probably because I was poopooing on Darnold while others were loving his potential

Bojang0301 said:
Chubb was a good pick, but if he would have taken any other back in the 2nd round (sans Ronald Jones) he would have a similar talent.
Click to expand...
good lord, no.

chubb is a generational talent. he was barkley before barkley. preinjury, chubb was unstoppable, and he's basically that once again.

georgia had the luxury of splitting carries between he and michel, and honestly, it helped chubb recover properly and kept him fresh

 
Soulfly3 said:
Probably because I was poopooing on Darnold while others were loving his potential

good lord, no.

chubb is a generational talent. he was barkley before barkley. preinjury, chubb was unstoppable, and he's basically that once again.

georgia had the luxury of splitting carries between he and michel, and honestly, it helped chubb recover properly and kept him fresh
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Generational, non generational. At RB, who gives a ####? It’s not worth the capital. Phillip Lindsay went undrafted, Aaron Jones was a 5th round pick. RB should not warrant a consideration until you can clearly see the tier drop coming. There is very little that differentiates Chubb from Kerryon or Guice and it may not even be a stretch to say there isn’t that much of a drop off from Chubb to Josh Adams. But go on continue to think this was a sweet class when Harold Landry posts double digit sacks next year.  

 
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And, I guess, don’t take that too critically of the Browns. It was bizarre that so many teams blew it on Landry. Organizations like the Steelers, Patriots and Seahawks deserve equal criticism.

 
Judge Smails said:
The eye test says that Mayfield is far beyond Darnold, Allen, Rosen, Jackson, etc.  It's not even close.  While Barkley woulda been great, the drop off to QB woulda been huge.  Arians isn't the only one salivating over that job.  Future is bright.
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Future is super bright. I wrote in other places I don't know if it was intentional, but the way it's worked out holding onto Jackson as long as they did, the coaching job is way more attractive now than it was in April. Then we hoped they had their QB. Now they have a much better estimation of whether they have their QB. Arians wasn't champing at the bit to the Browns coach in May. He is now.

But curious, with the "Admit it", do you think anyone disagrees with you? I"m sure there will be people who argue about anything (and Mayfield's played some cupcake Ds), but I see the talk as pretty much nothing but love for Mayfield. Are you thinking you have to convince anyone Mayfield / Chubb was an excellent draft?

 
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Joe Bryant said:
Future is super bright. I wrote in other places I don't know if it was intentional, but the way it's worked out holding onto Jackson as long as they did, the coaching job is way more attractive now than it was in April. Then we hoped they had their QB. Now they have a much better estimation of whether they have their QB. Arians wasn't champing at the bit to the Browns coach in May. He is now.

But curious, with the "Admit it", do you think anyone disagrees with you? I"m sure there will be people who argue about anything (and Mayfield's played some cupcake Ds), but I see pretty much nothing but Mayfield is headed for the Hall of Fame. Are you thinking you have to convince anyone Mayfield / Chubb was an excellent draft?
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Mayfield is electric. Even if they walked out of that draft with only him, it’s a big, big win. Ward is a major win too. Given that they had the most draft capital in modern draft history they popped a couple of balloons in my opinion. It’s not to argue that Chubb is bad, I think Chubb is great. Phenomenal athlete, Soulfly is right about him being Saquon before Saquon and as long as that knee holds up he’s going to be super productive. When you look at the whole of it though, it seems lacking. They threw away high capital on Tyrod. They used another pick on Jarvis Landry who I have serious questions about in the long term as Baker does not seem to look his way at all (a good thing IMO, means he’s throwing the ball downfield and not looking to bail out every play). Corbett looks like a bust, Chad Thomas is garbage. Calloway has been extremely inefficient which does not bode for his long term prospects despite the 1st rounder in the 4th round rhetoric. Also considering Tre’Quan, Sutton Anthony Miller and MVS all could have been had at various points it seems goofy to put that much faith into someone who got kicked out of school. 

 
Baker pick was such an obvious pick (IMO) but they made it and it looks incredible. Following it up with Denzel Ward put it over the edge. I like Chubb but I think he was still the wrong pick. Harold Landry was the guy there. The Browns had Hyde and Duke locked up for ~2 years. That is a good combo and there is time to improve it without moving up in the 2nd. If they could have added Baker (best QB), Ward (best CB) and Landry (best pass rusher) it would have been one of the best drafts in recent memory- getting what look like future Pro Bowlers at arguably the 3 most valuable positions. Now maybe we think Chubb should have gone instead of Corbett- maybe, haven't seen him play. I don't think drafting a talented and versatile OL is ever a bad move though. 

 
Bojang0301 said:
Cleveland fans already worship Dorsey and it’s way jumping the gun. He got the first round right with Mayfield and Ward. Chubb was a good pick, but if he would have taken any other back in the 2nd round (sans Ronald Jones) he would have a similar talent. Austin Corbitt was a terrible pick, especially with Harold Landry on the board. Genard Avery makes up for that a tiny bit but then Dorsey doubles down by cutting Carl Nassib prior to the season (now with 5.5 sacks on the year) in favor of Chad friggin Thomas who is about as fast as a rock. Jury is out. With Mayfield in place though it can mask a lot of ills.

Also forgot the Jarvis Landry trade and contract which is looking awful right now. The Tyrod Taylor trade is also already trash and a loss.
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You just stop!  Browns fans have a chance to be excited for the first time in forever so you let them have their moment. 

 
Well this thread just ensures bad things for all Mayfield and more so Chubb owners for the fantasy playoffs.  Thanks.

 
Bojang0301 said:
Cleveland fans already worship Dorsey and it’s way jumping the gun. He got the first round right with Mayfield and Ward. Chubb was a good pick, but if he would have taken any other back in the 2nd round (sans Ronald Jones) he would have a similar talent. Austin Corbitt was a terrible pick, especially with Harold Landry on the board. Genard Avery makes up for that a tiny bit but then Dorsey doubles down by cutting Carl Nassib prior to the season (now with 5.5 sacks on the year) in favor of Chad friggin Thomas who is about as fast as a rock. Jury is out. With Mayfield in place though it can mask a lot of ills.

Also forgot the Jarvis Landry trade and contract which is looking awful right now. The Tyrod Taylor trade is also already trash and a loss.
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Every GM is going to get some things wrong every season.  You need to get the important moves right then hit enough elsewhere.  I think he's done that.  Landry and Taylor are not long term answers, but they were necessary moves.  I'm not defending the Corbett pick, but it isn't a miss - yet.  He's an interior lineman.  We're set there right now.  He'll get his turn sometime down the line.

I agree with you about Thomas and Nassib, but you're unintentionally cherry picking the misses while disregarding his waiver wire hits - Zettel, Greg Robinson, Desmond Harrison (next year - not this year).  And I under estimated what he did with the secondary - and they're all (3 deep at both corner and safety) under contract already for next year.  Not bad for only having two of them - SS and backup SS - as of March 1.

 
Bojang0301 said:
Calloway has been extremely inefficient which does not bode for his long term prospects despite the 1st rounder in the 4th round rhetoric. 
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He didn't play football last year.  It was unfair of the first coaching staff to force so much to him so quickly because they refused to adapt to their personnel.  A good plan involved him being a complimentary option year one then next off season is the important one.  It's not a coincidence that his efficiency marks are vastly different the last three games - 12 targets, 9 catches, 152 yards (almost 13 yards per target!), TD.  

Be patient.

 
NeverEnough said:
What happened to Landry?
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He's not that good.  This is unfortunately not new news.  He's a complimentary receiver that plays with an edge.  Sometimes that edge is good; sometimes it's bad.  But at the same time I don't think the acquisition was a mistake.  That room needed him.  Still does.  But I expect him to have to renegotiate after 19 or get kicked to the curb.  

 
MAC_32 said:
He's not that good.  This is unfortunately not new news.  He's a complimentary receiver that plays with an edge.  Sometimes that edge is good; sometimes it's bad.  But at the same time I don't think the acquisition was a mistake.  That room needed him.  Still does.  But I expect him to have to renegotiate after 19 or get kicked to the curb.  
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ANyone have his targets over each game this season?

 
MAC_32 said:
Wrong question.  Ward is substantially more valuable than Barkley.
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Barkley's career could possibly be wasted away because they may not hit the jackpot at QB like CLE did. They swing and miss on a QB and most of Barkley's career will be playing with a ham & egger QB at best.

MAC_32 said:
He's not that good.  This is unfortunately not new news.  He's a complimentary receiver that plays with an edge.  Sometimes that edge is good; sometimes it's bad.  But at the same time I don't think the acquisition was a mistake.  That room needed him.  Still does.  But I expect him to have to renegotiate after 19 or get kicked to the curb.  
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He has never impressed me. They need to hit on one of these big WRs coming out. Metcalf, Butler, Harmon, Harry, etc. Or take speedy Marquis Brown who already has caught passes from Baker. They can significantly upgrade WR in this draft.

 
MAC_32 said:
He's not that good.  This is unfortunately not new news.  He's a complimentary receiver that plays with an edge.  Sometimes that edge is good; sometimes it's bad.  But at the same time I don't think the acquisition was a mistake.  That room needed him.  Still does.  But I expect him to have to renegotiate after 19 or get kicked to the curb.  
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That might be too simplistic.  I believe it has more to do with the QBs he’s played with.  I believe the lesser skilled QBs tend to be more concerned with makkng mistakes and so they find a WR they trust and make them the focus of the passing game (and it could be coached recognizing the limits of their QB and doing the same thing).

Now along comes a QB with superior skills and because of his skill\confidence\imagination level, he’s willing to challenge the D dependent upon what advantages it gives him.  Look at how QBs like Brees, Rodgers, and Brady are willing to spread the ball around, and how good they can make mediocre receivers look at times because those guys get a favorable matchups in a game.

I think that what we are seeing Landry go through.  His skills haven’t changed, he’s just got a QB who is willing to challenge the D across the entire field.

 
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lod001 said:
He has never impressed me. They need to hit on one of these big WRs coming out. Metcalf, Butler, Harmon, Harry, etc. Or take speedy Marquis Brown who already has caught passes from Baker. They can significantly upgrade WR in this draft.
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I'm really trying not to get too settled into my wants even though that always changes come March/April, but...Tyrell Williams and a first round WR would be very...very nice.

 
lod001 said:
Barkley's career could possibly be wasted away because they may not hit the jackpot at QB like CLE did. They swing and miss on a QB and most of Barkley's career will be playing with a ham & egger QB at best.
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Like Walter Payton’s was (for one example)?

 
Bronco Billy said:
That might be too simplistic.  I believe it has more to do with the QBs he’s played with.  I believe the lesser skilled QBs tend to be more concerned with makkng mistakes and so they find a WR they trust and make them the focus of the passing game (and it be be coached recognizing the limits of their QB and doing the same thing).

Now along comes a QB with superior skills and because of his skill\confidence\imagination level, he’s willing to challenge the D dependent upon what advantages it gives him.  Look at how QBs like Brees, Rodgers, and Brady are willing to spread the ball around, and how good they can make mediocre receivers look at times because those guys get a favorable matchups in a game.

I think that what we are seeing Landry go through.  His skills haven’t changed, he’s just got a QB who is willing to challenge the D across the entire field.
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I think your assessment of what's happening is correct, but I'm not following wrt Landry.  He's no longer a priority because Kitchens understands his limitations and that the game can't funnel through him.  He's a piece of the puzzle, but he's just that - a piece.  In different game scripts I'd expect more than what he's gotten the last two games since the Browns aren't going to be playing from multiple scores ahead most weeks, but there's lots of reasons recent game plans have been more successful.  And one of them is because the ball is no longer being forced to Landry in the down field passing game.

 
Bronco Billy said:
So you think Sanders career was wasted?  Given how well he is remembered, that seems very odd to me.
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No, fantastic career which would have been the best ever at RB had they ever found a franchise QB. What I am referring to is the team wasting a guys career. Should have phrased it like that. The team failed the player. The player did all he could.

 
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MAC_32 said:
I think your assessment of what's happening is correct, but I'm not following wrt Landry.  He's no longer a priority because Kitchens understands his limitations and that the game can't funnel through him.  He's a piece of the puzzle, but he's just that - a piece.  In different game scripts I'd expect more than what he's gotten the last two games since the Browns aren't going to be playing from multiple scores ahead most weeks, but there's lots of reasons recent game plans have been more successful.  And one of them is because the ball is no longer being forced to Landry in the down field passing game.
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Good response, and it very well could be some of both.

 
CLE finally seems to be on the right path.

OP is right about Mayfield...not only does he look the part, he sounds the part.  And this weeks hot take is his cold reception toward Hue...no matter what side of the fence you fall on (should he/shouldn't he)...could you picture Matt Ryan doing that? 

Chubb is fine...but RB is so 'findable'  ( - Philip Lindsay anyone?  Chris Carson?) that calling him a success at the same volume as Mayfield feels excessive.

There's still some ways to go here.  But January-August 2019 in CLE is going to have expectations on it, the likes they haven't seen since Belichick.

 
lod001 said:
No, fantastic career which would have been the best ever at RB had they ever found a franchise QB. What I am referring to is the team wasting a guys career. Should have phrased it like that. The team failed the player. The player did all he could.
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Twisted path to go down IMO. Barkley was the best player on the board when NYG were up... so they drafted him, and clearly he was the best player at his position. He's not even through with his rookie season. Only time will tell how these things shake out... injuries, free agency, relocation, competition, etc.

Organizations don't really "owe" anything to their players other than the millions of dollars they will be paying out to them.

 
Joe Bryant said:
Future is super bright. I wrote in other places I don't know if it was intentional, but the way it's worked out holding onto Jackson as long as they did, the coaching job is way more attractive now than it was in April. Then we hoped they had their QB. Now they have a much better estimation of whether they have their QB. Arians wasn't champing at the bit to the Browns coach in May. He is now.

But curious, with the "Admit it", do you think anyone disagrees with you? I"m sure there will be people who argue about anything (and Mayfield's played some cupcake Ds), but I see the talk as pretty much nothing but love for Mayfield. Are you thinking you have to convince anyone Mayfield / Chubb was an excellent draft?
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Many people voiced the Browns were idiots for not taking Barkley and that Mayfield was a reach.  Not having to convince people that it was an excellent draft, but I'd say convincing was needed in that it was the optimum draft

 
Judge Smails said:
Many people voiced the Browns were idiots for not taking Barkley and that Mayfield was a reach.  Not having to convince people that it was an excellent draft, but I'd say convincing was needed in that it was the optimum draft
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Interesting. I don't think anyone knew at the time, no more than anyone ever knows at the time. But trying to get folks to admit Mayfield / Chubb were good draft picks seems like getting people to admit Saquon Barkley is good. Not a lot of argument there. 

 
TheDirtyWord said:
CLE finally seems to be on the right path.

OP is right about Mayfield...not only does he look the part, he sounds the part.  And this weeks hot take is his cold reception toward Hue...no matter what side of the fence you fall on (should he/shouldn't he)...could you picture Matt Ryan doing that? 

Chubb is fine...but RB is so 'findable'  ( - Philip Lindsay anyone?  Chris Carson?) that calling him a success at the same volume as Mayfield feels excessive.

There's still some ways to go here.  But January-August 2019 in CLE is going to have expectations on it, the likes they haven't seen since Belichick.
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Some truth there. This league is 100% about getting the right QB in place.

 
jtp1982 said:
Agree they drafted well but not convinced they’re actually done sucking unless they hire Arians.  Guys basically asking them to hire him and he’s a perfect fit.

I don’t know how it’s not a no brained in their situation unless front office drama is still their limiting factor as an organization.  
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Browns fans can speak to the matter better than myself, but I wonder if Paul DePodesta should be getting a lot more attention as part of that front office. Baseball fans know him well, but for who aren't familiar he was one of the leading analytics guys for a number of years before coming to Cleveland at the beginning of 2016 to become their chief strategy officer. How much input has he had in this budding turnaround? It could definitely just be coincidental, but I'm really curious to hear about any analytics he's been bringing to the front office and how it's impacted their drafts or on field decisions. 

 
Bojang0301 said:
Generational, non generational. At RB, who gives a ####? It’s not worth the capital. Phillip Lindsay went undrafted, Aaron Jones was a 5th round pick. RB should not warrant a consideration until you can clearly see the tier drop coming. There is very little that differentiates Chubb from Kerryon or Guice and it may not even be a stretch to say there isn’t that much of a drop off from Chubb to Josh Adams. But go on continue to think this was a sweet class when Harold Landry posts double digit sacks next year.  
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Weren't you pumping Penny all offseason. Let it go.

Other teams let Chubb fall and picked some poor backs ahead of him.

 
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Joe Bryant said:
Interesting. I don't think anyone knew at the time, no more than anyone ever knows at the time. But trying to get folks to admit Mayfield / Chubb were good draft picks seems like getting people to admit Saquon Barkley is good. Not a lot of argument there. 
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100% right, which is why this thread comes out in week 12 versus pre-season.

Timing is everything. Browns win 4 games and we're already calling Canton and planning the Super Bowl party... oh, I mean "parties" (my bad).

 
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